Quote from: wally on September 23, 2016, 11:03:56 AM
When the Nazi's rolled over the nation-states of Europe during their Blitzkrieg, no doubt much of their success can be attributed to the failure of people to put aside their differences and take a stand together to defeat their common enemy!

So often, people make the Perfect the Enemy of the Good and will not accept AN ACHIEVABLE VICTORY while holding out for an impossible Dream!  (I am enough of a romantic to admire Don Quixote's tilting at Windmills, but I have never wished to emulate his tragic unwillingness to accept reality!)

Donald Trump is no conservative and is flawed in so many ways that is is going to be very hard for me to cast my vote for him.  Having said that, I will vote for Trump in order for us to control the House, the Senate and the Presidency and have a chance of having more conservative appointments to the SCOTUS than Hillary will make!

Here is why I will not vote for trump, and I know the timing in this is ironic considering Cruz has came out in endorsing trump, but what Cruz had to say summed it up.
http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2016/09/24/time-ted-cruz-said-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-going-tell-really-think%e2%80%9d/
  I can not see a difference between trump and hillary and am getting tired of people who claim that voting my conscience will get hillary elected. I prefer to look at it another way, considering hillary is one of the worst candidates ever to run for the presidency, if the trump was even half qualified he would be far ahead in the polls, instead we hear " at least he is not hillary"   

Quote from: s3779m on September 24, 2016, 05:34:43 PM
Here is why I will not vote for trump, and I know the timing in this is ironic considering Cruz has came out in endorsing trump, but what Cruz had to say summed it up.
http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2016/09/24/time-ted-cruz-said-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-going-tell-really-think%e2%80%9d/
  I can not see a difference between trump and hillary and am getting tired of people who claim that voting my conscience will get hillary elected. I prefer to look at it another way, considering hillary is one of the worst candidates ever to run for the presidency, if the trump was even half qualified he would be far ahead in the polls, instead we hear " at least he is not hillary"   

The 'lesser of two evil' BS doesn't fly any more.

Quote from: tac on September 24, 2016, 06:36:43 PM
The 'lesser of two evil' BS doesn't fly any more.

It does if your a RINO!   

Quote from: walkstall on September 24, 2016, 06:38:15 PM
It does if your a RINO!   

There seems to be a lot of them flying around.

Anyone who cannot see the huge,huge difference between Trump and hillary is either unknowledable about hillary and the clinton's history or they simply are sore losers who like a little kid wants to take their ball and go home.

The media has deluded many about hillary and it has been shown a lot of milennials do not even know bill was impeached.  That is the sad reality of todays electorate.

Talk to some people from Arkansas.  They know how the clintons operated there and they took that same operation and that same behavior to Washington at the shame of our nation.

Some people may not understand the difference between Satan and Jehova all-mighty and those of you who fall into that category should not be on here because you are so deluded that there is no hope for you.

Donald Trump does not even drink.  He has raised a fine family and Ted Cruz says he will vote for him.  So should we all.  Sampson of old was blinded by his enemies and out of revenge tore down the temple.  Do not get yourselves in that position.

Listen to Ted Cruz and help elect Donald Trump.

Quote from: Coyote9 on September 25, 2016, 03:45:59 PM
Anyone who cannot see the huge,huge difference between Trump and hillary is either unknowledable about hillary and the clinton's history or they simply are sore losers who like a little kid wants to take their ball and go home.

The media has deluded many about hillary and it has been shown a lot of milennials do not even know bill was impeached.  That is the sad reality of todays electorate.

Talk to some people from Arkansas.  They know how the clintons operated there and they took that same operation and that same behavior to Washington at the shame of our nation.

Some people may not understand the difference between Satan and Jehova all-mighty and those of you who fall into that category should not be on here because you are so deluded that there is no hope for you.

Donald Trump does not even drink.  He has raised a fine family and Ted Cruz says he will vote for him.  So should we all.  Sampson of old was blinded by his enemies and out of revenge tore down the temple.  Do not get yourselves in that position.

Listen to Ted Cruz and help elect Donald Trump.

Quote from: raptor5618 on September 22, 2016, 01:18:45 PM
I get that Trump is not a shining example of a Tea Party Patriot. But even among the original founders there were some that would not fit that criteria either.  But in this election if only for what Hillary would do to the Supreme Court I just do not understand the fight against Trump.  I think that in addition to that disaster I think allowing her to win is a big vote for the status quo. As flawed as Trump is I see him as someone who can break that glass ceiling of not politician as a career field.  I think that the GOP demonstrates how evil this current crop of so called leaders are.  They claim to be for many of the things that the tea party stands for yet do very little to prove that they really are serious.  The democrats are off the tracks with their concept of how the government should run and there is not act that is too low or evil that they would not employ it in order to get to their vision of nirvana.  It is the WWF in suits.  Fight like they want to kill each other but it is all an act.

So putting Trump in office is not going to turn this country around to say we are back on the track but I think it opens the door to others who are not life time politicos to run and win. Taking a stand now just seems like drinking the cool aide and waiting for the ship on the other side of the hale bob comet.  If Hillary wins this country is gone for ever. It is nearly impossible for someone on the right to win a national election now and with the change in the population if nothing changes and you can imagine what would happen under Hillary there will be no path to leading this country.  I think unless you are waiting for an brand new revolution I just cannot understand how someone who is in the tea party or on the right can stay at home or vote for one of the marginal candidates this time. 

I think it is clear that the direction of this country is more than ever going to be determined by this election. I was sure that Obama was going to be bad for the country but felt that there were enough checks and balances to keep it from getting too bad.  Well it is worse than I imagined but can still be salvaged.  4 more years of the same or worse will tip the scale so far to the left that there is no chance of even balance being restored. 

So please someone explain why taking a stand is the right tactic to employ this time.

I am with you and I hope those who still oppose Trump will come to their senses in time to vote for Trump. 

Those who are devoted to conservatism should not let hillary divide the conservative movement.  United we stand and divided we fall.

America is changing, changing very quickly and it is not changing for the better.  Let someone like hillary take over and it is going to change for the worse much quicker and it may change so much that no one will ever be unable to undo the change. 

Trump is not a perfect man nor is he the perfect conservative candidate but who is or who has ever been?  We should go with the best option.  It is insane to help someone like hillary.  I simply cannot that anyone that knows much at all about the clintons would do anything whatsoever to help them take over.

If Trump is elected I think that Cruz will be able to have a lot of influence on him.  In fact Trump might even put him on the Supreme Court where he could do much,much good.  Let hillary get in there and I shudder to think who she will place on the Supreme Court.  Get real folks, wise up, not much time left.

Quote from: Coyote9 on September 25, 2016, 03:55:19 PM
I am with you and I hope those who still oppose Trump will come to their senses in time to vote for Trump. 

Those who are devoted to conservatism should not let hillary divide the conservative movement.  United we stand and divided we fall.

America is changing, changing very quickly and it is not changing for the better.  Let someone like hillary take over and it is going to change for the worse much quicker and it may change so much that no one will ever be unable to undo the change. 

Trump is not a perfect man nor is he the perfect conservative candidate but who is or who has ever been?  We should go with the best option.  It is insane to help someone like hillary.  I simply cannot that anyone that knows much at all about the clintons would do anything whatsoever to help them take over.

If Trump is elected I think that Cruz will be able to have a lot of influence on him.  In fact Trump might even put him on the Supreme Court where he could do much,much good.  Let hillary get in there and I shudder to think who she will place on the Supreme Court.  Get real folks, wise up, not much time left.

Other than the fact that trump is not hillary, which I am getting tired of hearing, what do you like about him. In other words which of his lies, excuse me, his suggestions, do you think will benefit the country the most?  His flipping on immigration?
His opinion that now is the time to "borrow " more money, as if 22 trillion in debt is not enough? How about his new liberal plan for child care?  How about putting his sister on the supreme court? The 20% tariff on goods coming into the country, sounds good by will destroy our economy? Maybe penalizing companies for moving some of their business to other countries( which is their right to do so)? Of course there is also his plan for health care where he promises everyone will have health care, even if the government has to pay for it?  My favorite, is it his total lack of understanding of the constitution?  We have two of the biggest liars running for potus, but the biggest lie I have heard so far is "trump will be better than hillary". They are both evil.

Quote from: wally on September 23, 2016, 11:03:56 AM
When the Nazi's rolled over the nation-states of Europe during their Blitzkrieg, no doubt much of their success can be attributed to the failure of people to put aside their differences and take a stand together to defeat their common enemy!

So often, people make the Perfect the Enemy of the Good and will not accept AN ACHIEVABLE VICTORY while holding out for an impossible Dream!  (I am enough of a romantic to admire Don Quixote's tilting at Windmills, but I have never wished to emulate his tragic unwillingness to accept reality!)

Donald Trump is no conservative and is flawed in so many ways that is is going to be very hard for me to cast my vote for him.  Having said that, I will vote for Trump in order for us to control the House, the Senate and the Presidency and have a chance of having more conservative appointments to the SCOTUS than Hillary will make!

I personally believe IF (and there is a  likelihood) that if we lose the Senate, it's over.  It is the Senate that votes and gives final approval on the Supreme Court Justice.  Because I still believe that Trump has been in this from the beginning to derail the conservative movement and hijack the GOP, holding the Senate is going to be crucial.

Quote from: s3779m on September 25, 2016, 05:24:33 PM
Other than the fact that trump is not hillary, which I am getting tired of hearing, what do you like about him. In other words which of his lies, excuse me, his suggestions, do you think will benefit the country the most?  His flipping on immigration?
His opinion that now is the time to "borrow " more money, as if 22 trillion in debt is not enough? How about his new liberal plan for child care?  How about putting his sister on the supreme court? The 20% tariff on goods coming into the country, sounds good by will destroy our economy? Maybe penalizing companies for moving some of their business to other countries( which is their right to do so)? Of course there is also his plan for health care where he promises everyone will have health care, even if the government has to pay for it?  My favorite, is it his total lack of understanding of the constitution?  We have two of the biggest liars running for potus, but the biggest lie I have heard so far is "trump will be better than hillary". They are both evil.

If you alone could pick the president I would agree with you.  But the only choice you have is Hillary or Trump.  You can not vote which I think is the worst choice of all as I think it is something that we should feel obligated to do.   People took a stand and stayed home and we got Obama.  Now if people stay home again we get Hillary except this time we absolutely know the balance of the Supreme court is in the hands of the next president. The senate will bow down and accept someone that Hillary puts up no doubt.  I honestly think that with Hillary as president the chance that conservatives will ever have a chance to win back the white house will be gone for ever. I am not alone in this thinking and just think that when you have two legitimate choices why you would not resist the worst choice as best you could? 

Quote from: raptor5618 on September 22, 2016, 01:18:45 PM
I get that Trump is not a shining example of a Tea Party Patriot.

...eeeeehhhhhh, not sure that you do...

Quote
But even among the original founders there were some that would not fit that criteria either.

Now you're being silly...

Quote
  But in this election if only for what Hillary would do to the Supreme Court I just do not understand the fight against Trump.

Simple.  You believe that Trump will do the right, conservative thing.  That makes you gullible.  Donald has too much history of doing the unethical thing.

Quote
  I think

Lie...

Quote
that in addition to that disaster I think allowing her to win is a big vote for the status quo.

McConnell, Ryan, McCain, and the others know they can count on your loyal vote, as always.  They thank you.

Quote
As flawed as Trump is I see him as someone who can break that glass ceiling of not politician as a career field.

Again, you're gullible, like Trump University fraud victims.  Funny how you Trumpers just gloss over that stuff.  Hillary's supporters do the same thing with her.  You all are retarded.

Quote
  I think that the GOP demonstrates how evil this current crop of so called leaders are.  They claim to be for many of the things that the tea party stands for yet do very little to prove that they really are serious.  The democrats are off the tracks with their concept of how the government should run and there is not act that is too low or evil that they would not employ it in order to get to their vision of nirvana.  It is the WWF in suits.  Fight like they want to kill each other but it is all an act.

So putting Trump in office is not going to turn this country around to say we are back on the track but I think it opens the door to others who are not life time politicos to run and win. Taking a stand now just seems like drinking the cool aide and waiting for the ship on the other side of the hale bob comet.  If Hillary wins this country is gone for ever. It is nearly impossible for someone on the right to win a national election now and with the change in the population if nothing changes and you can imagine what would happen under Hillary there will be no path to leading this country.  I think unless you are waiting for an brand new revolution I just cannot understand how someone who is in the tea party or on the right can stay at home or vote for one of the marginal candidates this time.

They fought against Ted Cruz and other conservatives.  You expect me to reward them?  Yeah...... no.

Quote
I think it is clear that the direction of this country is more than ever going to be determined by this election. I was sure that Obama was going to be bad for the country but felt that there were enough checks and balances to keep it from getting too bad.  Well it is worse than I imagined but can still be salvaged.  4 more years of the same or worse will tip the scale so far to the left that there is no chance of even balance being restored. 

Every election is important.  But, continue voting for the liberals.  They can always count on you.

Quote
So please someone explain why taking a stand is the right tactic to employ this time.

We told you Trump was going to get trounced, and that if you vote along with the 12mm crossover Democrats, then you will have had your part in electing Hillary.  YOU elected Hillary, so please quit the lie that conservatives are responsible.

Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 11:54:14 AM
If you alone could pick the president I would agree with you.  But the only choice you have is Hillary or Trump.  You can not vote which I think is the worst choice of all as I think it is something that we should feel obligated to do.   People took a stand and stayed home and we got Obama.  Now if people stay home again we get Hillary except this time we absolutely know the balance of the Supreme court is in the hands of the next president. The senate will bow down and accept someone that Hillary puts up no doubt.  I honestly think that with Hillary as president the chance that conservatives will ever have a chance to win back the white house will be gone for ever. I am not alone in this thinking and just think that when you have two legitimate choices why you would not resist the worst choice as best you could?

Please answer this: why would a conservative vote for a liberal?

Taxed you clearly have an opinion of me that was formed without considering what I said. I certainly can think but because I do not agree with your logic does not mean that I am unable to think as well.  The people that founded this country were not perfect.  They created a brilliant document after the first one failed to work. If we could get this nation to follow the constitution we would be in good shape. 

I think the mess we are in is because the GOP took over the house and the senate and then caved on every issue. If you think I agree with how they run things you are so mistaken.  Even Ryan who I had hope for turned out to be just like all the rest.  I hoped Cruz would come out on top but he didn't. 

So as a conservative the right move is to not vote. Or to vote for someone who does not have a chance of winning.  Either one insures that Hillary wins. I do not think it is an argument of who should take the White house like there are other options. I also think that Trump has some ideas that are pretty scary but all of Hillary's are. 

Once Hillary is in office I believe and I think even Mark Levin agrees that this country is doomed.  Now Levin is a pure conservative and as smart as they come and I am sure he is going to vote for Trump.  He is about the only one I listen to that makes sense and explains the why and not just feeds back some political silliness.

So are you going to vote Taxed and tell me what is the principled way to vote. 

Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 12:32:48 PM
Taxed you clearly have an opinion of me that was formed without considering what I said.

You are trying to make the case for conservatives to vote for a radical liberal, to prevent the other radical liberal from winning.  Sorry, but no conservative can vote for a radical liberal.

Quote
I certainly can think but because I do not agree with your logic does not mean that I am unable to think as well.  The people that founded this country were not perfect.  They created a brilliant document after the first one failed to work. If we could get this nation to follow the constitution we would be in good shape. 

I know they weren't perfect, but you tried to use that history to hedge for Donald.  Sorry, you were just way off.

Quote
I think the mess we are in is because the GOP took over the house and the senate and then caved on every issue. If you think I agree with how they run things you are so mistaken.  Even Ryan who I had hope for turned out to be just like all the rest.  I hoped Cruz would come out on top but he didn't.

The Republicans actively fought against conservatives.  Why would I cast a vote for that party?  If they fought tooth and nail to elect and promote conservatism, then you at least have some daylight for an argument.  However, the GOP aggressively went after conservatives.  Sorry, I can't get behind that, no matter how much you don't like Hillary. 

Quote
So as a conservative the right move is to not vote. Or to vote for someone who does not have a chance of winning.  Either one insures that Hillary wins. I do not think it is an argument of who should take the White house like there are other options. I also think that Trump has some ideas that are pretty scary but all of Hillary's are. 

You may be fine continuing the circle and rewarding the Marxist takeover of the GOP, but I'd rather starve it and let it die.  Sleep well trying to keep McConnell, Ryan, etc., in office.

Quote
Once Hillary is in office I believe and I think even Mark Levin agrees that this country is doomed.  Now Levin is a pure conservative and as smart as they come and I am sure he is going to vote for Trump.  He is about the only one I listen to that makes sense and explains the why and not just feeds back some political silliness.

So are you going to vote Taxed and tell me what is the principled way to vote.

I'm writing in Ted Cruz and hitting the conservative down ballot.  That will be my last act as a Republican.

Quote from: taxed on October 06, 2016, 12:41:56 PM
You are trying to make the case for conservatives to vote for a radical liberal, to prevent the other radical liberal from winning.  Sorry, but no conservative can vote for a radical liberal.
I know they weren't perfect, but you tried to use that history to hedge for Donald.  Sorry, you were just way off.
The Republicans actively fought against conservatives.  Why would I cast a vote for that party?  If they fought tooth and nail to elect and promote conservatism, then you at least have some daylight for an argument.  However, the GOP aggressively went after conservatives.  Sorry, I can't get behind that, no matter how much you don't like Hillary. 
You may be fine continuing the circle and rewarding the Marxist takeover of the GOP, but I'd rather starve it and let it die.  Sleep well trying to keep McConnell, Ryan, etc., in office.
I'm writing in Ted Cruz and hitting the conservative down ballot.  That will be my last act as a Republican.

First part OK
Second part. Had nothing to do with Donald. Just saying that the perfect candidate is not available.
Third statement: Exactly why I would never register as a republican. They are in the tank just like the Dems
Forth:  Huh. what did I say that even hints that I would like to keep McConnell or Ryan in office. In many ways they are worse than the the Dem's who outright tell you that they are after a government that is more like the soviet union than the US.  the GOP claims they are fighting to get back Conservative values and then do not lift a finger to do anything.  The Pole's still hate the Russians for letting them think they would help when the resistance rose up against the Nazi's and the Russians just sat and watched till they got wiped out.  The GOP is like the Russians on the other side of the river.
I wish enough people would write in Cruz but even Cruz is voting for Trump. I am sure he will do so with a clothes pin on his nose.

At least you are voting but I think one is less worse than the other and has a chance to win.  I live in NC and my vote can help decide who might win here. In NY I would join you in voting for Cruz.  But I think that Hillary in office means that the conservative cause will be delegated to an underground resistance status until the whole thing comes crashing down.