This discussion has been going on and expanded for a few years now.  Is it possible that by applying labels (liberal/conservative) to ideas based upon their source, that we're missing opportunities to make constructive change?  There are many links to this approach.  Google "Ron Paul and Ralph Nader" for more
information.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ralph-naders-grand-alliance/

Let me be blunt, only a lib at heart with fall for this bull shit!

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2014, 07:19:06 AM
Let me be blunt, only a lib at heart with fall for this bull shit!

So Ron Paul is a liberal at heart?  I don't understand your point.  If liberals and conservatives have the same view on an issue why shouldn't they work together to make a change?  Please explain what you mean by "bull shit".

This is an old broadcast, but maybe it will help to illustrate the point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTCr3dtDv1o

Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 18, 2014, 07:33:27 AM
So Ron Paul is a liberal at heart?  I don't understand your point.  If liberals and conservatives have the same view on an issue why shouldn't they work together to make a change?  Please explain what you mean by "bull shit".

Of course it went over your ignorant head.

Your gullibility keeps you from seeing the big picture here. What Nader and the author are attempting to do is draw the young libs away from the TEA movement shared by the Libertarian movement and direct them towards LIBertarianism, an ideology they are attempting to subvert in an attempt to make the movement part of the Marxist campaign to destroy Capitalism.

Only a true Conservative would see the connection, one that obviously you would never see.
I wrote and warned about this move long before Nader ever broached the idea.

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2014, 08:07:35 AM
Of course it went over your ignorant head.

Your gullibility keeps you from seeing the big picture here. What Nader and the author are attempting to do is draw the young libs away from the TEA movement shared by the Libertarian movement and direct them towards LIBertarianism, an ideology they are attempting to subvert in an attempt to make the movement part of the Marxist campaign to destroy Capitalism.

Only a true Conservative would see the connection, one that obviously you would never see.
I wrote and warned about this move long before Nader ever broached the idea.

Please see my last post.

Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 18, 2014, 06:32:58 AM
This discussion has been going on and expanded for a few years now.  Is it possible that by applying labels (liberal/conservative) to ideas based upon their source, that we're missing opportunities to make constructive change?  There are many links to this approach.  Google "Ron Paul and Ralph Nader" for more
information.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ralph-naders-grand-alliance/

Liberal and Conservatives are really misleading labels. The fight isn't between Liberals and Conservatives, it is between Statists - those who believe in a strong and massive central government and non-statists - people who believe that the government should only do those things that individuals can't do for themselves.

The real question is, are we subjects or are we citizens?

Darth

Quote from: Darth Fife on December 18, 2014, 08:31:01 AM
Liberal and Conservatives are really misleading labels. The fight isn't between Liberals and Conservatives, it is between Statists - those who believe in a strong and massive central government and non-statists - people who believe that the government should only do those things that individuals can't do for themselves.

The real question is, are we subjects or are we citizens?

Darth

That's a good observation.  Statist / Non-statist are definitely more meaningful.

Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 18, 2014, 08:15:44 AM
Please see my last post.

Can't watch videos.
But you see Conservative as a party, when it is nothing of the sort. Its  way of life.

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2014, 12:59:19 PM
Can't watch videos.
But you see Conservative as a party, when it is nothing of the sort. Its  way of life.

Too bad you can't see it, because it's an interview with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader where they talk about how much they have in common on the issues.  I think that the whole point of my post is that I don't see parties as much as I see issues and that if we can get past the labels and the parties, then we can do something about the issues.

Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 18, 2014, 01:48:33 PM
 

Too bad you can't see it, because it's an interview with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader where they talk about how much they have in common on the issues.  I think that the whole point of my post is that I don't see parties as much as I see issues and that if we can get past the labels and the parties, then we can do something about the issues.

Nader is an old school liberal, a la JFK, MLK, Zell Miller, etc.    They embraced the 60's version of liberalism, that the govt = the man = keeping you down.  Today's liberals (communists) are just about flip-flopped 180 degrees in their absolute love for never-big-enough govt.

So given traditional JFK (Nader) liberalism, Paul's libertarianism isn't too far removed from that.

Today Tea Partiers are somewhat close to libertarianism, halfways related to 60's liberalism, and a million miles away from today's dems / libs / left and RINO's.

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
Nader is an old school liberal, a la JFK, MLK, Zell Miller, etc.    They embraced the 60's version of liberalism, that the govt = the man = keeping you down.  Today's liberals (communists) are just about flip-flopped 180 degrees in their absolute love for never-big-enough govt.

So given traditional JFK (Nader) liberalism, Paul's libertarianism isn't too far removed from that.

Today Tea Partiers are somewhat close to libertarianism, halfways related to 60's liberalism, and a million miles away from today's dems / libs / left and RINO's.

TEA is proof that common sense isn't dead yet.

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 18, 2014, 02:15:21 PM
TEA is proof that common sense isn't dead yet.

or honesty, truth, logic, or reason.  But it's all gasping for breath.  2010 & 2014 were a good dose of CPR, but if we go under one more time, we may not make it.

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2014, 03:02:59 PM
or honesty, truth, logic, or reason.  But it's all gasping for breath.  2010 & 2014 were a good dose of CPR, but if we go under one more time, we may not make it.

We just took a gigantic breath... It's time to swim for the gold.

Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 18, 2014, 06:32:58 AM
This discussion has been going on and expanded for a few years now.  Is it possible that by applying labels (liberal/conservative) to ideas based upon their source, that we're missing opportunities to make constructive change?  There are many links to this approach.  Google "Ron Paul and Ralph Nader" for more
information.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ralph-naders-grand-alliance/

Better yet google Jesse Ventura and all the whacked out nut job stuff that guy says and does....that's your celebrated convergence of Liberal/conservative idealogies whipped up in a blender and poured out as modern day LIBERAL tarianism