Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 02:00:53 PM
Exactly, tHAT''S THE BEAUTY OF THE MOVEMENT, NO ACTUAL TARGETS.
Damn caps lock!

The other issue with forming an actual movement with stated goals, is that not everyone will be pleased.
Right now, the movement is focused on shrinking an over bearing govt, but say we focus to include morality, then we lose a small percentage, and every vote is important.
Or say the plank states we don't include morality, then we piss off the religious.

Granted, these are poor examples, but it proves the point having an all inclusive platform of simple change in focusing on Liberty and lower taxes has worked.
To mess with that now would pigeonhole us and kill the movement.

Exactly the point. We all have our own personal beliefs about social issues like abortion, etc;. The establishment has used those issues to split the conservative vote which prevented a conservative from being a presidential candidate. TEA has removed those and we are focused on smaller government and other true conservative values.  We will not be distracted from our goals.

Quote from: supsalemgr on December 25, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Exactly the point. We all have our own personal beliefs about social issues like abortion, etc;. The establishment has used those issues to split the conservative vote which prevented a conservative from being a presidential candidate. TEA has removed those and we are focused on smaller government and other true conservative values.  We will not be distracted from our goals.

Bingo!
It's sad that rino allowed the left to politicize everything. and I do mean everything!

Again, the type of organizing I am promoting is being misunderstood.  For instance, "stated goals"?  Who said any goals have to be stated? At least, any stated goal above and beyond that which is already stated: the desire to return to a limited constitutional federal government, and a return of appropriate powers to the States.

If stealth seems to be the better strategy, then we go stealth. 5th column. How ever you want to state it. Organizing so that we end up focused on an agreed candidate to support, instead of the half dozen or so we had in 2012, does not mean we give up the looseness of the overall TEA movement. Being, in reality the Big Tent (instead of mere rhetoric of the liberals) is one of the aspects that keeps me involved with the TEA movement. I do not want to lose that aspect any more than anyone else.  But we will have pretty much reach the limit of our effectiveness if we cannot come together and start agreeing on how to approach certain items, one of which is a SINGLE presidential candidate to support in 2016.

Yes, we will need to communicate things such as NOT getting involved looking for a candidate who supports specific issues.  Yes, communicating between TEA factions across the US will mean people not being satisfied that their pet issue is not prioritized the way they want.  But what will leave TEA participants LESS satisfied: choosing a candidate based on the general principles of a limited constitutional federal government, or having yet another RINO type forced on us because TEA factions cannot agree on a conservative candidate to support?

The PTBs are already succeeding in fractionalizing the People, race divisions, social/religious division, economic division. The last thing we need is to help them out by voluntarily remaining fractionalized ourselves. "United we stand, divided we fall" is not just some old, corny saying. (Though I see nothing wrong with the idea of presenting a PUBLIC image of being fractionalized, while preparing underneath the table a unified push when they least expect it.)

And even if it ends up TEA factions cannot come together, there is still nothing wrong with establishing lines of communication between factions.

Quote from: zewazir on December 25, 2014, 07:15:17 PM
Again, the type of organizing I am promoting is being misunderstood.  For instance, "stated goals"?  Who said any goals have to be stated? At least, any stated goal above and beyond that which is already stated: the desire to return to a limited constitutional federal government, and a return of appropriate powers to the States.

I believe we're all on the same page.

QuoteIf stealth seems to be the better strategy, then we go stealth. 5th column. How ever you want to state it. Organizing so that we end up focused on an agreed candidate to support, instead of the half dozen or so we had in 2012, does not mean we give up the looseness of the overall TEA movement. Being, in reality the Big Tent (instead of mere rhetoric of the liberals) is one of the aspects that keeps me involved with the TEA movement. I do not want to lose that aspect any more than anyone else.  But we will have pretty much reach the limit of our effectiveness if we cannot come together and start agreeing on how to approach certain items, one of which is a SINGLE presidential candidate to support in 2016.

You nailed it defining it as the big tent, because that's what the majority of the nation wants.
As to reaching it's climax, that's a bit premature for the foreseeable future. Coalescing around a certain candidate wil happen, but we have yet to find one, anyway, one that's officially entered the race.

QuoteYes, we will need to communicate things such as NOT getting involved looking for a candidate who supports specific issues.  Yes, communicating between TEA factions across the US will mean people not being satisfied that their pet issue is not prioritized the way they want.

TEA groups across the country are in constant communication with the message, so I don't see that becoming an issue.
What we keep an eye out for is the Establishment usurping one of the bigger groups like Fred Thompson tried a few years back and got his ass handed to him .

 

QuoteBut what will leave TEA participants LESS satisfied: choosing a candidate based on the general principles of a limited constitutional federal government, or having yet another RINO type forced on us because TEA factions cannot agree on a conservative candidate to support?

Yes, this is a challenge, one we will have to face head on come 2016, but the climate has shifted to TEA favor, in that th majority are onto the rino leaving us no other options but to vote for their candidate.
In other words, people aren't afraid of the Dim party, they offer nothing more than more failed Marxist policy, so being forced into believing the rino is a safe bet simply won't fly anymore.

QuoteThe PTBs are already succeeding in fractionalizing the People, race divisions, social/religious division, economic division. The last thing we need is to help them out by voluntarily remaining fractionalized ourselves. "United we stand, divided we fall" is not just some old, corny saying. (Though I see nothing wrong with the idea of presenting a PUBLIC image of being fractionalized, while preparing underneath the table a unified push when they least expect it.)

Again, that's the lefts failed mantra, one the country isn't falling for anymore, despite the efforts of a failed media.

QuoteAnd even if it ends up TEA factions cannot come together, there is still nothing wrong with establishing lines of communication between factions.

Believe me, we already have that.

Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 08:17:49 PM
Coalescing around a certain candidate will happen, but we have yet to find one, anyway, one that's officially entered the race.

Or we could poll the various factions out there and find a person who fits the criteria and convince them to toss their hat in. Major politicians are already in the lime light, and you can bet the U.S. Pravda are more than ready with what they need to scare moderates, and main stream republican voters away. In short, we hit them with an unconsidered newbie, just like they hit us with the Bamster.

Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 08:17:49 PM
Yes, this is a challenge, one we will have to face head on come 2016, but the climate has shifted to TEA favor, in that th majority are onto the rino leaving us no other options but to vote for their candidate.
In other words, people aren't afraid of the Dim party, they offer nothing more than more failed Marxist policy, so being forced into believing the rino is a safe bet simply won't fly anymore.

First of all, if we wait until 2016, we'll be starting out way behind the power curve. If we don't start searching out and vetting candidates now, we will be ill prepared to affect the primaries. It's less than a week from 2015, and primaries start in January of 2016.

Second, from what I have seen, your assessment seems rather optimistic. Yes, the tide is STARTING to turn, and every day people are STARTING to question the inflamatory rhetoric they simply accepted as little as three months ago.  But that is a long way from where we need to be. Most republicans and most independent moderates who are sick of the Dim lies will still be more than willing to accept a RINO, not only over a Dim, but also over the "far right extremist" type conservatives (as still being successfully painted by the media) that we really need.  And don't forget, the opposition is stepping up their game, too. Their rhetoric will be modified, and other methods changed as soon as they see their current methods being minimized. (They are probably already aware of the changing tide, as while their followers may be brain dead lemmings, you can bet the ones in charge are anything but stupid.)

Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 08:17:49 PMBelieve me, we already have that.

I must say that I have not seen any indication of that happening. There is some interchange going on here and there, but not to any significant degree.  And Montana does have a rather significant TEA movement of which I am active. Is there an information clearing house we are not aware?

Quote from: zewazir on December 26, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
Or we could poll the various factions out there and find a person who fits the criteria and convince them to toss their hat in. Major politicians are already in the lime light, and you can bet the U.S. Pravda are more than ready with what they need to scare moderates, and main stream republican voters away. In short, we hit them with an unconsidered newbie, just like they hit us with the Bamster.
First of all, if we wait until 2016, we'll be starting out way behind the power curve. If we don't start searching out and vetting candidates now, we will be ill prepared to affect the primaries. It's less than a week from 2015, and primaries start in January of 2016.

The process has begun. There are 15-20 potential GOP candidates and they will begin staking out positions. Some have already begun. The process will play out. We will see who does the best. One thing we need to watch is who the MSM selects as their "GOP darlin'" for 2016. That will be the dead giveaway of at least one who should be eliminated.

Second, from what I have seen, your assessment seems rather optimistic. Yes, the tide is STARTING to turn, and every day people are STARTING to question the inflamatory rhetoric they simply accepted as little as three months ago.  But that is a long way from where we need to be. Most republicans and most independent moderates who are sick of the Dim lies will still be more than willing to accept a RINO, not only over a Dim, but also over the "far right extremist" type conservatives (as still being successfully painted by the media) that we really need.  And don't forget, the opposition is stepping up their game, too. Their rhetoric will be modified, and other methods changed as soon as they see their current methods being minimized. (They are probably already aware of the changing tide, as while their followers may be brain dead lemmings, you can bet the ones in charge are anything but stupid.)

We cannot change how democrats and RINO's think. I plan to ignore them and look for the most electable conservative candidate. That is  action and expressed in our primaries.

I must say that I have not seen any indication of that happening. There is some interchange going on here and there, but not to any significant degree.  And Montana does have a rather significant TEA movement of which I am active. Is there an information clearing house we are not aware?

The process is just beginning. It is a two year process. No need to rush what will unfold. The key is to remain diligent in our vetting process. This forum is a vehicle to identify chamelions and share with other posters.

Quote from: zewazir on December 26, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
Or we could poll the various factions out there and find a person who fits the criteria and convince them to toss their hat in. Major politicians are already in the lime light, and you can bet the U.S. Pravda are more than ready with what they need to scare moderates, and main stream republican voters away. In short, we hit them with an unconsidered newbie, just like they hit us with the Bamster.
First of all, if we wait until 2016, we'll be starting out way behind the power curve. If we don't start searching out and vetting candidates now, we will be ill prepared to affect the primaries. It's less than a week from 2015, and primaries start in January of 2016.

When I say 2016, I'm referring to when we see what the Establishment has put forth, so we know how to fashion our message.

QuoteSecond, from what I have seen, your assessment seems rather optimistic. Yes, the tide is STARTING to turn, and every day people are STARTING to question the inflamatory rhetoric they simply accepted as little as three months ago.  But that is a long way from where we need to be.

What you propose takes money, and that we simply don't have, so it's pretty obvious, absent money, we have kicked ass despite the fact.

QuoteMost republicans and most independent moderates who are sick of the Dim lies will still be more than willing to accept a RINO, not only over a Dim, but also over the "far right extremist" type conservatives (as still being successfully painted by the media) that we really need.

Don't assume they'll vote.

And don't forget, the opposition is stepping up their game, too. Their rhetoric will be modified, and other methods changed as soon as they see their current methods being minimized.
Yeah like calling us the enemy? That worked out well.

Quote(They are probably already aware of the changing tide, as while their followers may be brain dead lemmings, you can bet the ones in charge are anything but stupid.)

I have no doubt they have several plans in the works, but it matters not if we stick to our core values and reject anything and everything they offer.
These people are pure scum and the nation is more than aware of it.
The one thing they'll do, which they do ever election, is attempt to eliminate contenders one by one, and at the last minute bring forth their guy as what they claim to be our only option, just ike they pulled with Mitten.
He laid low while all the other contenders battle it out.
They also dug dirt on the biggest threats as leverage, think Cain.
We need to demand answers to issues that concern us, not go on softball talk shows where the questions were prescreened.

QuoteI must say that I have not seen any indication of that happening. There is some interchange going on here and there, but not to any significant degree.  And Montana does have a rather significant TEA movement of which I am active. Is there an information clearing house we are not aware?

This forum, as well as other site, such as the ones listed below communicate regularly nationwide  in an effort to spread the word and contain the message.
These are only two examples of networkijng

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jacksonjuly4thteaparty/L4lJyE3A710
https://www.facebook.com/TheTeaParty.net

https://www.facebook.com/teapartyorg?fref=nf
I "liked" this FaceBook page quite a while ago, but have been basically disappointed. They spew a lot of news items, along with "urgent" polls which end up asking for money. Not the normal modus operandi of the real TEA groups I have acquainted myself with.

Unfortunately, its another item the TEA movement (any type of interest group, really) ends up dealing with. Scammers using the TEA moniker, taking money while giving real TEA factions a bad name.

Thanks for the heads up on more legitimate groups.

Quote from: zewazir on December 26, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
https://www.facebook.com/teapartyorg?fref=nf
I "liked" this FaceBook page quite a while ago, but have been basically disappointed. They spew a lot of news items, along with "urgent" polls which end up asking for money. Not the normal modus operandi of the real TEA groups I have acquainted myself with.

Unfortunately, its another item the TEA movement (any type of interest group, really) ends up dealing with. Scammers using the TEA moniker, taking money while giving real TEA factions a bad name.

Thanks for the heads up on more legitimate groups.

Yes, that's a real problem. Taxed and I have some inside info on one of the biggest groups run by Ginny Beth Martin.
I won't go into detail, but yes, there are some real scum out there siphoning off money under the guise of TEA.

Quote from: zewazir on December 26, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
https://www.facebook.com/teapartyorg?fref=nf
I "liked" this FaceBook page quite a while ago, but have been basically disappointed. They spew a lot of news items, along with "urgent" polls which end up asking for money. Not the normal modus operandi of the real TEA groups I have acquainted myself with.

Unfortunately, its another item the TEA movement (any type of interest group, really) ends up dealing with. Scammers using the TEA moniker, taking money while giving real TEA factions a bad name.

Thanks for the heads up on more legitimate groups.

I make it a point to steer clear of any political actions on Facebook.