Yesterday was the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and in the CPF thread DO YOU REMEMBER, I offered up this footage of that attack combined with the Roosevelt "infamy" speech of the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVxT3qzVlQ

...So here's a recap of what we did right during those next few years, offered up by Ace of Spades.....

QuoteDuring the 3-1/2 years of World War 2 that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and ended with the Surrender of Germany and Japan in 1945,
"We the People of the U.S.A." produced the following:
22 aircraft carriers,
8 battleships,
48 cruisers,
349 destroyers,
420 destroyer escorts,
203 submarines,
34 million tons of merchant ships,
100,000 fighter aircraft,
98,000 bombers,
24,000 transport aircraft,
58,000 training aircraft,
93,000 tanks,
257,000 artillery pieces,
105,000 mortars,
3,000,000 machine guns, and
2,500,000 military trucks.

We put 16.1 million men in uniform in the various armed services, invaded Africa, invaded Sicily and Italy, won the battle for the Atlantic, planned and executed D-Day, marched across the Pacific and Europe, developed the atomic bomb, and ultimately conquered Japan and Germany.

It's worth noting, that during the almost exact amount of time, the Obama Administration couldn't even build a web site that worked.

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?blog=86&post=353592#c22977088

Quote from: quiller on December 08, 2014, 12:18:27 AM
Yesterday was the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and in the CPF thread DO YOU REMEMBER, I offered up this footage of that attack combined with the Roosevelt "infamy" speech of the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVxT3qzVlQ

...So here's a recap of what we did right during those next few years, offered up by Ace of Spades.....

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?blog=86&post=353592#c22977088

All good stuff, but it's also important to understand that at the end of 1941, the United States had a pretty shitty military. Most of the battleships sunk and/or damaged at Pearl Harbor were 1920s relics. Most of the planes destroyed on the ground at Hickam were obsolete. Most of the troops serving at the Schofield barracks were still using Springfield bolt-action rifles designed in 1903, and wearing wide-brimmed doughboy helmets that didn't even work well in the first War.

I guess my point is that the nation recovered from a consistent array of negatives to score all those positives.

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 08, 2014, 04:57:10 AM
All good stuff, but it's also important to understand that at the end of 1941, the United States had a pretty shitty military. Most of the battleships sunk and/or damaged at Pearl Harbor were 1920s relics. Most of the planes destroyed on the ground at Hickam were obsolete. Most of the troops serving at the Schofield barracks were still using Springfield bolt-action rifles designed in 1903, and wearing wide-brimmed doughboy helmets that didn't even work well in the first War.

I guess my point is that the nation recovered from a consistent array of negatives to score all those positives.

Yet by comparison, after all was said and done, what we have to show from this administration for one million times the cost of WWII, is an entry point to a website that does absolutely nothing but expose your personal information to the entire world, an extended depression, failed Marxist policy, the most hyped lie in world history on climate, used to force the nation to kill of capitalism via higher costs from failed alternative energy restrictions.

Capitalism's infrastructure, by the way was responsible for bringing WWII to a close.
And after all was said and done, going into a world war, cost us far less than what it cost to kill off our own culture.

How could nearly half a nation of voters not see the obvious? That they have been pawns of the communists?
It boggles the mind.

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 08, 2014, 04:57:10 AM
All good stuff, but it's also important to understand that at the end of 1941, the United States had a pretty shitty military. Most of the battleships sunk and/or damaged at Pearl Harbor were 1920s relics. Most of the planes destroyed on the ground at Hickam were obsolete. Most of the troops serving at the Schofield barracks were still using Springfield bolt-action rifles designed in 1903, and wearing wide-brimmed doughboy helmets that didn't even work well in the first War.

I guess my point is that the nation recovered from a consistent array of negatives to score all those positives.

Well, yes and no, on a couple of levels. The West Virginia, Maryland, California, and Tennessee (barely) were commissioned in the 1920s. The Arizona, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, and Nevada were commisioned in the 1910s; the Utah, converted to an auxilliary, was older than Nevada. Recently transferred to the Atlantic were the three New Mexico class battleships, built after the Pennsylvania class but before the Tennessee class. Also in the Atlantic, the two modern North Carolina class battleships were working up.

It should be pointed out, though, that Japan (and Britain) were similarly situated as to battleships. The four Kongo class "battleships" (converted from battle cruisers), Ise & Hyuga, and Fuso & Yamashiro were mostly built in the 1910s; Mutsu and her sister (whose name slips my mind) were 1920s vintage (and approximate equivalents to ships of the USN Colorado class). Yamato was either approaching being in commission, or was newly so, with Musashi some time behind her.

Before moving on the aircraft carriers, it should be mentioned that the lack of building battleships in the late 20s into the late 30s was due to naval treaties that forbade doing so.

Carriers .... the USN and IJN were also similarly situated. The USN had two fleet carriers, Lexington and Saratoga that had been converted from battle cruiser hulls mid-construction, due to the naval treaty. Japan had two fleet carriers, Akagi and Kaga, converted mid-construction from a battle cruiser and a battleship hull. The USN had the light carrier Ranger; the IJN had Hiryu and Soryu. The USN had Yorktown and Enterprise, with Hornet being worked up; the IJN had Shokaku and Zuikaku. The USN had  light carrier Wasp in late stages of construction. The number of carriers each nation had was, similarly (though indirectly), limited by naval treaty.

The biggest and costliest hardware @#$%-up in the USN was the torpedoes used in modern destroyers, submarines, and aircraft. The depth control mechanism, magnetic exploder, and contact exploder were all defective, and were not fixed until well into 1943. The biggest training @#$%-up in the USN was in training for surface battle, especially at night. Those two @#$%-ups cost many lives and quite a few ships.

Lunchtime is over.

USN submarines: the Gato class was very good or excellent, as were a couple of earlier classes; OTOH, there were still a good number of very inadequate 1920s boats and fleet boat prototypes in service.

IJN submarines were probably very good or better. But the doctrine for using them and the mindset of their officers was to focus on engaging warships. For various reasons, this made them fairly ineffective, until they were largely re-purposed for evacuation and resupply missions.

USAAF and USN planes. The B-17s in Hawaii were mostly older revs, and were being replaced. The Japanese had no 4 engine bomber (nor did the Germans). USAAF B-25s and B-26s were better planes than Japanese Bettys. The fighters in Hawaii were a mix of obsolete P-36s and P-40s, which had limitations when fighting Zeros. USN F4Fs similarly had limitations, but, flown properly, were adequate. USN SBD dive bombers were somewhat old, but performed well; IJN Vals were older still, with fixed landing gear. USN TBD torpedo bombers were outclassed; IJN Kates were class.

The US Army was pretty much as TbA stated, gutted and pathetic. Just as an example, the famous Sherman tank was IIRC pretty much an even match with the Mark III Panzer, which the Germans had in 1939. IOW, the Sherman was 2 or 3 generations behind what the Germans were using by the time the Sherman went into battle.

20+ years of unwise naval treaties and budget slashing left US  forces on 12/7/41 with equipment that ranged from some of the best in the world (in a few cases) to pathetic to, in the case of USN torpedoes, defective. What was worse was the strategic thinking in both the Army and Navy and the woeful inadequate training which had been forced on them by budget gutting.

Quote from: quiller on December 08, 2014, 12:18:27 AM
Yesterday was the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and in the CPF thread DO YOU REMEMBER, I offered up this footage of that attack combined with the Roosevelt "infamy" speech of the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVxT3qzVlQ

...So here's a recap of what we did right during those next few years, offered up by Ace of Spades.....

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?blog=86&post=353592#c22977088

Beyond the physical accomplishments, it's fair to consider the costs. Over 400,000 Americans dead -- ouch. And all that production cost considerable treasure, far more than this nation has spent on any other war, or in fact on all other wars combined since the Revolution. Interesting chart here kinda puts that part of it in perspective.

It's a fair assessment to say that the US economy emerged into boom times after the war mainly because almost every other modern industrial economy had been destroyed or crippled during the war. World War II, thank GOD, was fought on foreign soil.

Every Dec 7th, I recall family lore I heard when I was a child, how four brothers were gathered in their Parents house enjoying a traditional chicken dinner planning CHristmas celebration etc when a distraught neighbor came to the door and told them of the attack, they went to the neighbors house (they didn't have a radio) and listen in shock. Later My grandfather, in his thick Irish brogue called them back to house, made the four boys sit at a table while he went into his room, he emerged with a handfull of straws, stuck out his fist and told them, draw a straw, 2 short for the Army 2 long for the Navy. My Grandmother begged that the youngest, My Uncle, be exemepted....My Grandfather said "The country needs him more than we do"   She cried for three days.

To me, That little story exemplifies the spirit of the American people, it was all about duty,obligation, sacrifice when their country needed them. To Me THATS WHAT WE GOT RIGHT DURING WW2.

Just a little addendum to the story, the Youngest, My Uncle, who drew a "long" straw was the only of the 4 "boys"  in the Pacific theater, His ship was hit by Kamakazi pilots didn't sink he also saw the flag raised on IWO Jima. He just passed in September, the last one left

God rest their souls, and all the men who Died on Dec 7th....we still remember.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 08, 2014, 04:46:40 PM
Every Dec 7th, I recall family lore I heard when I was a child, how four brothers were gathered in their Parents house enjoying a traditional chicken dinner planning CHristmas celebration etc when a distraught neighbor came to the door and told them of the attack, they went to the neighbors house (they didn't have a radio) and listen in shock. Later My grandfather, in his thick Irish brogue called them back to house, made the four boys sit at a table while he went into his room, he emerged with a handfull of straws, stuck out his fist and told them, draw a straw, 2 short for the Army 2 long for the Navy. My Grandmother begged that the youngest, My Uncle, be exemepted....My Grandfather said "The country needs him more than we do"   She cried for three days.

To me, That little story exemplifies the spirit of the American people, it was all about duty,obligation, sacrifice when their country needed them. To Me THATS WHAT WE GOT RIGHT DURING WW2.

Just a little addendum to the story, the Youngest, My Uncle, who drew a "long" straw was the only of the 4 "boys"  in the Pacific theater, His ship was hit by Kamakazi pilots didn't sink he also saw the flag raised on IWO Jima. He just passed in September, the last one left

God rest their souls, and all the men who Died on Dec 7th....we still remember.

We have heroes now with our all voluntary military. Unfortunately, they are not recognized as such.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 08, 2014, 04:46:40 PM
Every Dec 7th, I recall family lore I heard when I was a child, how four brothers were gathered in their Parents house enjoying a traditional chicken dinner planning CHristmas celebration etc when a distraught neighbor came to the door and told them of the attack, they went to the neighbors house (they didn't have a radio) and listen in shock. Later My grandfather, in his thick Irish brogue called them back to house, made the four boys sit at a table while he went into his room, he emerged with a handfull of straws, stuck out his fist and told them, draw a straw, 2 short for the Army 2 long for the Navy. My Grandmother begged that the youngest, My Uncle, be exemepted....My Grandfather said "The country needs him more than we do"   She cried for three days.

To me, That little story exemplifies the spirit of the American people, it was all about duty,obligation, sacrifice when their country needed them. To Me THATS WHAT WE GOT RIGHT DURING WW2.

Just a little addendum to the story, the Youngest, My Uncle, who drew a "long" straw was the only of the 4 "boys"  in the Pacific theater, His ship was hit by Kamakazi pilots didn't sink he also saw the flag raised on IWO Jima. He just passed in September, the last one left

God rest their souls, and all the men who Died on Dec 7th....we still remember.

There were three brothers in Dad's family who served. Fred was the oldest, and joined the Army the day after Pearl Harbor. He wound up with Patton's Third Army in Europe after D-Day, but spent the final months of the war in a German POW camp. My uncle Bob was also Army, though he never said much about his service. Dad, the youngest to enlist, was only seventeen when he signed up with the Navy in early 1943. Before the year was out, he was helping load the 5-inchers on USS Trathen in the South Pacific. Until that time, he had never been outside Scioto County, Ohio.

All those boys are gone now. Dad was the last, in September 2011.

I don't know who coined the term "Greatest Generation," but I think we have a lot to live up to.

Quote from: Solar on December 08, 2014, 05:51:21 AM

Capitalism's infrastructure, by the way was responsible for bringing WWII to a close.

Socialism's infrastructure had nothing to do with it? At all?

We got one thing right in WWII, that frankly I have not seen our nation willing to since.

The idea is called "total warfare", it's the kind of war we waged against Japan, and is also the kind of war we should be waging against these jihadi's today.

That said, I would like to say thanks, belatedly, to the WWII vets here.

Quote from: quiller on December 08, 2014, 12:18:27 AM
Yesterday was the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and in the CPF thread DO YOU REMEMBER, I offered up this footage of that attack combined with the Roosevelt "infamy" speech of the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVxT3qzVlQ

...So here's a recap of what we did right during those next few years, offered up by Ace of Spades.....

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?blog=86&post=353592#c22977088

Actually those 22 carriers built were fleet carriers. Including light carriers and escort carriers the US built 120 total. This doesn't count the 5 fleet carriers the US started WW2 with. And in addition to the 8 built, the US raised 3/5 battleships from Pearl Harbor, to add to the 10 others we had at the start of the war.

Quote from: SVPete on December 08, 2014, 12:07:58 PM
Before moving on the aircraft carriers, it should be mentioned that the lack of building battleships in the late 20s into the late 30s was due to naval treaties that forbade doing so.

Carriers .... the USN and IJN were also similarly situated. The USN had two fleet carriers, Lexington and Saratoga that had been converted from battle cruiser hulls mid-construction, due to the naval treaty. Japan had two fleet carriers, Akagi and Kaga, converted mid-construction from a battle cruiser and a battleship hull. The USN had the light carrier Ranger; the IJN had Hiryu and Soryu. The USN had Yorktown and Enterprise, with Hornet being worked up; the IJN had Shokaku and Zuikaku. The USN had  light carrier Wasp in late stages of construction. The number of carriers each nation had was, similarly (though indirectly), limited by naval treaty.

The biggest and costliest hardware @#$%-up in the USN was the torpedoes used in modern destroyers, submarines, and aircraft. The depth control mechanism, magnetic exploder, and contact exploder were all defective, and were not fixed until well into 1943. The biggest training @#$%-up in the USN was in training for surface battle, especially at night. Those two @#$%-ups cost many lives and quite a few ships.

Lunchtime is over.

The USN had radar for night battles; but the Navy still had to many peace time admirals who weren't familiar with new technology. The fact that torpedoes weren't tested until 1943 to see if the worked was unconscionable. So was the Sherman tank, which was a joke compared to the German tanks.

Quote from: kalash on December 11, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Socialism's infrastructure had nothing to do with it? At all?

Had the US not entered the war, where would you be today?