What we got right about WWII

Started by quiller, December 08, 2014, 12:18:27 AM

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daidalos

Quote from: Solar on December 11, 2014, 04:04:13 PM
Had the US not entered the war, where would you be today?
Had we not entered the war, England and then eventually Russia would have fallen to the combined militaries of the axis powers.

And then, at a point and time, when it would be too late for America to do anything about it anyways, the United States would have.

Japan actually did the world, or well those of us who love freedom and liberty in the world that is, a favor 12-7-41 with their attack on Pearl.

Yes it's a tragic, horrible, loss of life for the U.S.

BUT those who did lose their lives, on that day, in doing so, while they and their families at the time probably didn't even know it.

All but ensured our Freedom today. Because it brought us into the war at a time when it was vital, in fact we were almost even then still too late...(topic for later/diff thread)

The very same freedoms, that these libs like Obama, Pelosi, Reid etc.... would just oh so dearly love to strip from us.

The very same liberty, that the Mc'lame's, Boner's and other Rino's infesting the Gop would have us voluntarily subject, submit and hand over to governmental authority.

We can all thank a WWII vet today for.

In a very real, literal sense, our freedom and our liberty.

Aside from the gift of life itself, I don't think you can give a human being a greater gift than what those guys did for all of us alive back then, and those of us "inheritors" of that same gift today.



One of every five Americans you meet has a mental illness of some sort. Many, many, of our veteran's suffer from mental illness like PTSD now also. Help if ya can. :) http://www.projectsemicolon.org/share-your-story.html
And no you won't find my "story" there. They don't allow science fiction. :)

mdgiles

Quote from: daidalos on December 12, 2014, 12:53:47 AM
Had we not entered the war, England and then eventually Russia would have fallen to the combined militaries of the axis powers.

And then, at a point and time, when it would be too late for America to do anything about it anyways, the United States would have.

Japan actually did the world, or well those of us who love freedom and liberty in the world that is, a favor 12-7-41 with their attack on Pearl.
Indeed. And the attack on pearl was unnecessary. What Japan really wanted was the European colonies in the Pacific and Asia. They felt they had to attack Pearl to keep the US from interfering. But, in reality, America never would have gone to war to save European colonies.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Cryptic Bert

Quote from: kalash on December 11, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Socialism's infrastructure had nothing to do with it? At all?

Yes. It was non existent...

Darth Fife

Quote from: mdgiles on December 12, 2014, 04:24:11 PM
Indeed. And the attack on pearl was unnecessary. What Japan really wanted was the European colonies in the Pacific and Asia. They felt they had to attack Pearl to keep the US from interfering. But, in reality, America never would have gone to war to save European colonies.

Yamamoto knew it was a gamble, and I think when he realized that the U.S. carriers were safely out of port during the attacks, he pretty much knew theirs was a lost cause.

It was just a matter of time.

America might not have gone to war to protect European Colonies, but the Japanese couldn't conquer the European Colonies while ignoring the American holdings in the Pacific. American bases in the Philippines, Guam and elsewhere where strategically placed, and even if the Americans didn't enter the war officially, they would surely have allowed their bases to be used - if only as supply and staging areas - by their European allies.

That would have hobble Japan's plans in the Pacific.

And, no, I don't think it was just dumb luck that our carriers weren't in port during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Darth

TboneAgain

Quote from: mdgiles on December 11, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
The USN had radar for night battles; but the Navy still had to many peace time admirals who weren't familiar with new technology. The fact that torpedoes weren't tested until 1943 to see if the worked was unconscionable. So was the Sherman tank, which was a joke compared to the German tanks.

Well, you could cruise the French countryside in your monstrous, magnificently engineered, incredibly complicated, slow-moving, unreliable, underpowered, and nearly impossible to service Tiger II, or you could blast along eastward in an el-cheapo Sherman with thirty more just like it in your formation to lend fire support. I think I'd like to be in a Sherman.  :tounge:

The Tiger II was a magnificent tank, but the Germans built fewer than 500 of them. The Panzer IV was the mainstay of the Western Front, and it was a good medium tank, but not significantly superior to the M4, especially the Firefly variant the British put into battle.   

All told, Germany produced and put into battle fewer than 26,000 tanks of all types. We cranked out almost 50,000 Shermans alone. Our Soviet allies came up with over 84,000 T-34s. Throwing in the British tanks and American tanks besides the M4 Sherman, the Germans were purely outnumbered by nearly 10:1.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

daidalos

I've not watched it yet, but I saw a movie over on Hulu, what would the world be like without the U.S. supposed to be all about this "topic".

Anyone seen it, is it worth the watch or a waste of time?
One of every five Americans you meet has a mental illness of some sort. Many, many, of our veteran's suffer from mental illness like PTSD now also. Help if ya can. :) http://www.projectsemicolon.org/share-your-story.html
And no you won't find my "story" there. They don't allow science fiction. :)

kalash

Quote from: The Boo Man... on December 12, 2014, 05:06:06 PM
Yes. It was non existent...
Really? So it was actually, General Frost, that beat the germans near Moscow and Stalingrad and doctor Goebbels was right.... You never know... Live and learn...

european101

Quote from: kalash on December 13, 2014, 11:43:35 AM
Really? So it was actually, General Frost, that beat the germans near Moscow and Stalingrad and doctor Goebbels was right.... You never know... Live and learn...

Ah goebbels was much smarter than you think. And especially much more smarter than you.

AndyJackson

Quote from: Darth Fife on December 12, 2014, 05:47:08 PM
Yamamoto knew it was a gamble, and I think when he realized that the U.S. carriers were safely out of port during the attacks, he pretty much knew theirs was a lost cause.

Darth
He may also have been hoping for a period of capitulation and pacifism, like they enjoyed for so long with europe.

kalash

Quote from: european101 on December 13, 2014, 11:59:28 AM
Ah goebbels was much smarter than you think. And especially much more smarter than you.
No doubt, no doubt, man! And such a brilliant mind, talented journalist was driven to suicide (along with his  friend, talented austrian artist) by barbaric russians!

wally

Quote from: Solar on December 11, 2014, 04:04:13 PM
Had the US not entered the war, where would you be today?
Prior to Pearl Harbor my Dad was too young to be trained as a US Pilot, but he wanted to fly, so he rode a bus up to Canada and enlisted in the RCAF, as a Flight Cadet, flying Gypsy Moths.
He completed his trainnig prior to Dec. 7th, but after the sneak attack the US sent a train to Canada and brought our boys back home.  My dad trained in basic bomber training in Texas and later in Avon Park, Florida, as a B26 Martin Marauder Pilot.  He flew accross the pond with the first group of B26's to go over.  He flew 58 bombing missions and shortly after being promoted to Captain, he was shot down, bailed out and was a POW for the last seven months of the war.

MY Dad said the only way they knew the war had ended was that one day, instead of Germans manning the towers, there were Russians mannng them.  The Russians held our downed flyers as bargaining chips fo land concessions at the end of the war.  Finally, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower got tired of Stalin's games and ordered a flight of B17's to fly up there and bring our boys home.  The Russians blicked! (probably some poor Commie Commander ended up in a Goulag)

Where would I be today?  Where indeed would any of us be were it not for the heroric actions of those who fought for our freedoms and those of the rest of the world!  They all  were our Greatest Generation!  When  times get tough and things look bad for us, I never forget..they had it worse and they overcame the adversties of their time.
The press is our chief ideological weapon.
~ Nikita Khrushchev

Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.

~Ronald Reagan

supsalemgr

Quote from: wally on December 15, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Prior to Pearl Harbor my Dad was too young to be trained as a US Pilot, but he wanted to fly, so he rode a bus up to Canada and enlisted in the RCAF, as a Flight Cadet, flying Gypsy Moths.
He completed his trainnig prior to Dec. 7th, but after the sneak attack the US sent a train to Canada and brought our boys back home.  My dad trained in basic bomber training in Texas and later in Avon Park, Florida, as a B26 Martin Marauder Pilot.  He flew accross the pond with the first group of B26's to go over.  He flew 58 bombing missions and shortly after being promoted to Captain, he was shot down, bailed out and was a POW for the last seven months of the war.

MY Dad said the only way they knew the war had ended was that one day, instead of Germans manning the towers, there were Russians mannng them.  The Russians held our downed flyers as bargaining chips fo land concessions at the end of the war.  Finally, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower got tired of Stalin's games and ordered a flight of B17's to fly up there and bring our boys home.  The Russians blicked! (probably some poor Commie Commander ended up in a Goulag)

Where would I be today?  Where indeed would any of us be were it not for the heroric actions of those who fought for our freedoms and those of the rest of the world!  They all  were our Greatest Generation!  When  times get tough and things look bad for us, I never forget..they had it worse and they overcame the adversties of their time.

Thanks for the post and it is right on target. I had four uncles who served. One did not come back. Another, still alive, was in the Battle of the Bulge. Then that generation came home and were instrumental in making the 50's and 60's two dynamic decades the likes of which we will not see again.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

wally

Quote from: supsalemgr on December 15, 2014, 01:31:42 PM
Thanks for the post and it is right on target. I had four uncles who served. One did not come back. Another, still alive, was in the Battle of the Bulge. Then that generation came home and were instrumental in making the 50's and 60's two dynamic decades the likes of which we will not see again.
When you say "we" you're probably right (at least for me, I turned 64 on Dec. 7th!)  However, I still believe that America's best days are still ahead of us.  I am doing what I can to ensure the America our children (and grandchildren) will inherit will have the same opportunities our parents (collectively)provided for us!
The press is our chief ideological weapon.
~ Nikita Khrushchev

Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.

~Ronald Reagan

supsalemgr

Quote from: wally on December 15, 2014, 02:05:03 PM
When you say "we" you're probably right (at least for me, I turned 64 on Dec. 7th!)  However, I still believe that America's best days are still ahead of us.  I am doing what I can to ensure the America our children (and grandchildren) will inherit will have the same opportunities our parents (collectively)provided for us!

I certainly did not desire to give the impression we (our country) cannot improve. However, the WW II generation understood what we fought for and the 50's and early 60's were so dynamic. I had the good fortune of starting school in 1949 and graduated from high school in 1961 and college in 1965. It was wonderful times. Today, we have multiple entitlement generations that do not understand adversity and I am not sure are able to deal with it. Therefore, many choose to sign onto the belief that government is the answer. Hence, we have what we have now. I hope we can reverse this trend, but it will take time and I will be dead and gone when we get back to the mindset of post WW II.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Darth Fife

Quote from: kalash on December 11, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Socialism's infrastructure had nothing to do with it? At all?

No, it didn't!

Just look at the Soviet Union during the war! If it had not been for the lend lease program of Capitalist America, the USSR would have lost their part of the war.

Of course, this would have enabled Hitler to concentrate all of his power on Operation Overlord! England may very well have fallen to the NAZIs.

Darth