Author Topic: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?  (Read 2347 times)

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2013, 09:26:20 PM »
.. added, Tl, since your version of the way it should be relies solely on total agreement, I take it we all go to the ice cream store and accept the only flavor available; vanilla.  Utopia, yes!  Real world, no!

Sounds like a straw man to me.

Show me where I said anything about "total agreement."
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2013, 09:26:49 PM »
Even in a free society. I would not let a kid play with a loaded gun.   But that's just me.

And you are not alone in that.

Not even close.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
I will read it a little later. I think you're advocating Anarchy because you grew up under a very oppressive form of Godvernment the Founders never intended. They did intend government though. George Washington warned that government was like a "beast" or a "fire." It is a useful and necessary tool, but if you overfeed it, it will quickly get out of control and DEMAND even more until it consumes all. We're at that point now. We also need a military, but NOT as it is today.
I will look forward to the future discussion.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Online Solar

  • '
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33673
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2013, 09:48:08 PM »
I will never cease to claim you are dead wrong on this issue.

A government is a very specific relationship.

The word doesn't just mean whatever we want it to.

If there is no coercive authority, then there is no government. Pure and simple.
So in your commune, for lack of a better term, who will determine punishment for infractions, one or all people, and if so, how will you enforce such rule, and what if the person flat out refuses to follow your rules, will you simply turn the other cheek and ignore him and hope he goes away?
If I remember correctly, sounds to me like you are proposing a true Democracy, which is just another form of Govt.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Phillip

  • Guest
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2013, 11:17:17 PM »
Just curious if you have a single issue that would prevent you from voting for the GOP candidate? For me, it would be if I don't believe he'd appoint Justices to the Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v Wade. Next on my list is GOP supporters of amnesty for the new special class--the illegal Mexican voter. My two favorites are Rubio and Rand Paul, but both support amnesty for these "special" Mexicans. I may not vote if this is the best we can do.



There's not really a single plausible issue that would keep me from voting for a politician. Much better to evaluate candidates based on an overview of their policy rather than single issues. I didn't vote for Mike McWherter for governor because he was too conservative despite running against Haslam as a Democrat in the 2010 Gubernatorial race. That was based on far more than one issue.

Offline Yawn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3265
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2013, 05:06:49 AM »
Most who won't vote parrot the line "not a dime's worth of difference" but there is.

The problem is, when you see the ones you would otherwise respect follow the Demons, and you discover just how naive they really are, and you see that THEIR plans will destroy the country, at what point do you give up or voter 3rd party?

Republican support of amnesty will destroy this country and put additional BURDEN on the already stressed and ever shrinking taxpayer base (those who hold jobs).

How can you support these people?! The country will NOT be better for their "contribution" it will be WORSE.  How can you support them?!

Bash Romney all you want as a "RINO, but he didn't support amnesty, and he promised tyo build that damn fence!

Offline The Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 1141
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2013, 06:24:36 AM »
“Every man is like the company he keeps.”
"Show me your friends and I'll show you your Future"

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2013, 08:30:25 AM »


That is an amazing quote.

I would count those of us who vote as literally "doing nothing."
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Online Solar

  • '
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33673
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2013, 08:48:45 AM »
That is an amazing quote.

I would count those of us who vote as literally "doing nothing."
This is an interesting POV. To do nothing, is equivalent to fighting, yet fighting is a futile attempt at nothing?
Do they really have money trees with hamburger bearing vines and cherry soda rain pouring down in your world?
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2013, 08:50:12 AM »
So in your commune, for lack of a better term, who will determine punishment for infractions, one or all people, and if so, how will you enforce such rule, and what if the person flat out refuses to follow your rules, will you simply turn the other cheek and ignore him and hope he goes away?

If I remember correctly, sounds to me like you are proposing a true Democracy, which is just another form of Govt.

Commune?

I know that is not meant to come across in a positive way!!

Who determines punishment? No one person.

What happens is people agree to certain terms of a contract, with certain penalties for breaking it. If the penalties are too onerous, they do not sign.

If they do not sign, then the exchange does not happen or the association ends.

So the law, fines and punishment is something determined contractually, by both parties. For example, between the insurer and the insured.

Enforcement is also voluntary.

You either abide by the punishment determined in the private arbitration process, or you are ostracized in future dealings.

The person becomes a man unto them self- cut off from the benefits of society.

So we quickly see that law is formed and order is had, without a central body to create or enforce law.

Do you remember this from your readings of customary law?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 08:56:45 AM by TowardLiberty »
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2013, 08:51:18 AM »
This is an interesting POV. To do nothing, is equivalent to fighting, yet fighting is a futile attempt at nothing?
Do they really have money trees with hamburger bearing vines and cherry soda rain pouring down in your world?

In the matrix, everything is an illusion.

Debt is money. War is peace. Poverty is prosperity. Propaganda is knowledge. Poison is food. And voting makes a difference.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Online Solar

  • '
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33673
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2013, 09:03:14 AM »
Commune?

I know that is not meant to come across in a positive way!!

Who determines punishment? No one person.

What happens is people agree to certain terms of a contract, with certain penalties for breaking it. If the penalties are too onerous, they do not sign.

If they do not sign, then the exchange does not happen or the association ends.

So the law, fines and punishment is something determined contractually, by both parties. For example, between the insurer and the insured.

Enforcement is also voluntary.

You either abide by the punishment determined the private arbitration process, or you are ostracized in future dealings.

The person becomes a man unto them self- cut off from the benefits of society.

So we quickly see that law is formed and order is had, without a central body to create or enforce law.

Do you remember this from your readings of customary law?
First it was not a slight, considering no place exists on Earth, you would need a communal type setting on a small scale.

But you assume an ideal world in your scenario.
What if someone murders someone, will you simply ostracize, shun them in future dealings, what if there were no witness to the crime, you all were certain it were murder.
What of rape? You aren't willing to write laws, merely a contract with absolutely no teeth.
So many what ifs, as in the case a group decides they don't like the rules and change them, the majority says, nay, yet the group, one which happens to control imports say, Yes we will, we have the power of monopoly.

Without repercussion, you have nothing, it's not like you can take your ball and go home, they control all import and export, you will have to deal with them, like it or not.

You simply don't take into account human nature and greed, not everyone is interested in the same goals as you, some come with the sole intention of taking over, but again, without laws and the will to back them, you have nothing, nothing but ignorant trusting sheep.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline TowardLiberty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2013, 09:32:20 AM »
First it was not a slight, considering no place exists on Earth, you would need a communal type setting on a small scale.

But you assume an ideal world in your scenario.
What if someone murders someone, will you simply ostracize, shun them in future dealings, what if there were no witness to the crime, you all were certain it were murder.
What of rape? You aren't willing to write laws, merely a contract with absolutely no teeth.
So many what ifs, as in the case a group decides they don't like the rules and change them, the majority says, nay, yet the group, one which happens to control imports say, Yes we will, we have the power of monopoly.

Without repercussion, you have nothing, it's not like you can take your ball and go home, they control all import and export, you will have to deal with them, like it or not.

You simply don't take into account human nature and greed, not everyone is interested in the same goals as you, some come with the sole intention of taking over, but again, without laws and the will to back them, you have nothing, nothing but ignorant trusting sheep.

Sounds like you are judging the merits of a concept you are pretty unsure about.

You know what they say about "assumptions."
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Online Solar

  • '
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33673
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2013, 09:40:03 AM »
Sounds like you are judging the merits of a concept you are pretty unsure about.

You know what they say about "assumptions."
Nice dodge, now explain how your Utopia will deal with such events.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline quiller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9761
  • Gender: Male
  • Reinstate dueling for Congress
Re: What Single Issue Would Prevent You From Voting for the Next Prez?
« Reply #104 on: February 03, 2013, 09:51:57 AM »
What would prevent me? Premature death.

 

Powered by EzPortal