I ask, because as I've pointed out, NK is smaller than most states West of the Rocky Mountains, our military has every single one of their weapons targeted, we know each and every one of his launch sites and could take the entire mess out in an hour, I kid you not, 95% of his military capabilities gone in the first hour.
So why is the media suddenly again focusing on the attention seeking whore, what is so important about a guy that's made an industry of threatening his neighbors, why is American media feeding the troll?
Seriously, if one follows leftist media, one gets the impression NK alone can end Western culture on its own, yes, that's the picture the doom and gloomers are presenting.
WHY? Do they think it hurts Trump, are they trying to distract from the real news, the Dim catastrophe, Clinton Corruption Inc. or the DNC connection to ISIS terrorist (including McStain).
Is that the real reason they want Americans distracted and focusing on a two-bit dictator?
Folks, I can't stress enough, NK is not a threat and never will be unless he exports fusion material to ISIS, beyond that, he's essentially a caged rabid chihuahua barking at anyone who will pay attention.
China knows this all too well, so again, why are we feeding this troll?
Trump. They want to make North Korea look like the dragon that must be slayed. If he doesn't North Korea succeeding in acquiring nukes will be pinned on him. So Trump will be the culprit at it takes any blame off of Obama.
And, if Trump takes military action he will be branded a warmonger.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 10, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
Trump. They want to make North Korea look like the dragon that must be slayed. If he doesn't North Korea succeeding in acquiring nukes will be pinned on him. So Trump will be the culprit at it takes any blame off of Obama.
And, if Trump takes military action he will be branded a warmonger.
That's what I was looking for! Makes total sense, flood the airwaves with images of the early 60s, kids duking under our desks in fear of the USSR.
I can see it, though I just don't think it will have the effect of the Cuban missile crisis, let alone the threat of a yapping dog.
I agree with your synopsis, however, I don't think the left is getting the mileage they hoped to attain, Hell, I'm even seeing them push stories claiming people want bomb shelters again, which I say is a crock of shit, no one is panicking like we did when JFK nearly got us killed in 62, or was it 63?
What Trump does next will be very telling, and I imagine NK will blink and call for dialogue, something they've been refusing to do, but now that they know Trump is serious and their ass is on the line, they'll tow the line to buy time.
Personally, I hope they provoke an attack so we can put an end to China's bargaining chip they claim they have nothing to do with.
I'd love to watch China squirm over this.
What is going on w/No.Korea?
Respectfully, it has everything to do w/reality.
Britannica compiled the following from our WW2 DoD archives:
Hiroshima Nagasaki
Population pre-bombing: 265,000 210,000
Casualties* 145,000 80,000
*some 90% were deaths.
Since No.Korea is highly mountainous, they have built extensive underground facilities out of eyesight of our satellites and sensors, in order to house and test their nuclear weaponry.
As a consequence, we have been surprised by their technological progress.
So given their capability of creating underground facilities, should we assume that "our military has every single one of their weapons and launch sites targeted" Really?????
For sake of argument, let's assume we can knock out 95% of No. Korea's capability in a first strike.
Seventy five years after our tests at Los Alamos; nuclear weaponry is at least 10X more deadly than it was at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
So consider a moment, the impact of the 5% of the Nukes we don't get in a first strike, on Seoul
(pop. 10,000,000) and/or Guam (pop. 175,000).
Suggest we let our military deal w/this in tandem w/their counterparts in So.Korea and Japan; while dramatically turning down the volume.
As for Trump pray for lengthy laryngitis and will somebody please toss his twitter machine in a raging fire!!!!!
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 10, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
What is going on w/No.Korea?
Respectfully, it has everything to do w/reality.
Britannica compiled the following from our WW2 DoD archives:
Hiroshima Nagasaki
Population pre-bombing: 265,000 210,000
Casualties* 145,000 80,000
*some 90% were deaths.
Since No.Korea is highly mountainous, they have built extensive underground facilities out of eyesight of our satellites and sensors, in order to house and test their nuclear weaponry.
As a consequence, we have been surprised by their technological progress.
So given their capability of creating underground facilities, should we assume that "our military has every single one of their weapons and launch sites targeted" Really?????
For sake of argument, let's assume we can knock out 95% of No. Korea's capability in a first strike.
Seventy five years after our tests at Los Alamos; nuclear weaponry is at least 10X more deadly than it was at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
So consider a moment, the impact of the 5% of the Nukes we don't get in a first strike, on Seoul
(pop. 10,000,000) and/or Guam (pop. 175,000).
Suggest we let our military deal w/this in tandem w/their counterparts in So.Korea and Japan; while dramatically turning down the volume.
As for Trump pray for lengthy laryngitis and will somebody please toss his twitter machine in a raging fire!!!!!
At some place in time someone will have to bomb the shit out of them. Their not going away peacefully, if you believe they are your living in the snowflake world. Someone is going to get their nose bloody it's only matters of time.
Trump also knows his "twitter machine" is pissing off The Dem's, MSM, Snowflakes, and RINO.
The Marxists are desperately trying to "pin" something on Trump. So far they got squat. If Yung Son Fool actually does launch something it would likely be to hit S. Korea and/or Japan. The Left would blame the attack on Trump's rhetoric goading the NORK's into attacking. If Trump stuck first (unlikely) he would be starting a war needlessly. Either way the Left has something to "impeach trump" with and "try him for war Crimes" ala Bush/Cheney.
Did you hear what Susan Rice said?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/346050-susan-rice-us-can-tolerate-n-korean-nukes
Shows you where they are coming from....tolerate a Madman having nukes to point at the rest of the world.
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 10, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
What is going on w/No.Korea?
Respectfully, it has everything to do w/reality.
Britannica compiled the following from our WW2 DoD archives:
Hiroshima Nagasaki
Population pre-bombing: 265,000 210,000
Casualties* 145,000 80,000
*some 90% were deaths.
Nukes, who said anything about us using nukes?
QuoteSince No.Korea is highly mountainous, they have built extensive underground facilities out of eyesight of our satellites and sensors, in order to house and test their nuclear weaponry.
Seriously? Have you ever seen a satellite image of a mining operation? You really don't give our intel much credit then. We take pics 24/7 of NK, know just what vehicles go where, how long they stay and where they came from where military operation is concerned, and oh yeah, a few bunker busters, and those cave will be grtaves in no time. This isn't the Korean war, even though that's about NK' military consists of with the exception of a handful of rockets.
QuoteAs a consequence, we have been surprised by their technological progress.
Turn off leftist news, no one has been surprised in the least, that was an excuse the left used every time NK snookered them into giving them more aid. "Oh My, NK has nukes?" How did that happen under Clintons watch? :rolleyes:
QuoteSo given their capability of creating underground facilities, should we assume that "our military has every single one of their weapons and launch sites targeted" Really?????
Oh Jeeez, yes, Really!!!
QuoteFor sake of argument, let's assume we can knock out 95% of No. Korea's capability in a first strike.
Seventy five years after our tests at Los Alamos; nuclear weaponry is at least 10X more deadly than it was at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
So consider a moment, the impact of the 5% of the Nukes we don't get in a first strike, on Seoul
(pop. 10,000,000) and/or Guam (pop. 175,000).
They won't even have a military command in place, even if we missed one, and we won't, believe me.
QuoteSuggest we let our military deal w/this in tandem w/their counterparts in So.Korea and Japan; while dramatically turning down the volume.
As for Trump pray for lengthy laryngitis and will somebody please toss his twitter machine in a raging fire!!!!!
I see, so my knowledge of military is somehow outweighed by your emotional pleas for capitulation?
Gee, and look how well your tactics have worked over the past 60 years...
Quote from: Solar on August 10, 2017, 01:10:56 PM
That's what I was looking for! Makes total sense, flood the airwaves with images of the early 60s, kids duking under our desks in fear of the USSR.
I can see it, though I just don't think it will have the effect of the Cuban missile crisis, let alone the threat of a yapping dog.
I agree with your synopsis, however, I don't think the left is getting the mileage they hoped to attain, Hell, I'm even seeing them push stories claiming people want bomb shelters again, which I say is a crock of shit, no one is panicking like we did when JFK nearly got us killed in 62, or was it 63?
What Trump does next will be very telling, and I imagine NK will blink and call for dialogue, something they've been refusing to do, but now that they know Trump is serious and their ass is on the line, they'll tow the line to buy time.
Personally, I hope they provoke an attack so we can put an end to China's bargaining chip they claim they have nothing to do with.
I'd love to watch China squirm over this.
There my be a second scenario. China has always been the key to this because they prop them up. They always promise to help but never do because they know the president isn't going to attack North Korea. So the media's hysterical reporting might just convince China Trump means what he says and finally step in and neuter the nip.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 10, 2017, 06:13:16 PM
There my be a second scenario. China has always been the key to this because they prop them up. They always promise to help but never do because they know the president isn't going to attack North Korea. So the media's hysterical reporting might just convince China Trump means what he says and finally step in and neuter the nip.
Yeah, I think that's been a back channel ploy all along, because everyone knows who pulls the strings where NK is concerned, anyway, I assumed most people knew that, but I guess the lib media has yet to hear the truth, or at the least, accept it..
Quote from: Solar on August 10, 2017, 07:35:20 AM
I ask, because as I've pointed out, NK is smaller than most states West of the Rocky Mountains, our military has every single one of their weapons targeted, we know each and every one of his launch sites and could take the entire mess out in an hour, I kid you not, 95% of his military capabilities gone in the first hour.
So why is the media suddenly again focusing on the attention seeking whore, what is so important about a guy that's made an industry of threatening his neighbors, why is American media feeding the troll?
Seriously, if one follows leftist media, one gets the impression NK alone can end Western culture on its own, yes, that's the picture the doom and gloomers are presenting.
WHY? Do they think it hurts Trump, are they trying to distract from the real news, the Dim catastrophe, Clinton Corruption Inc. or the DNC connection to ISIS terrorist (including McStain).
Is that the real reason they want Americans distracted and focusing on a two-bit dictator?
Folks, I can't stress enough, NK is not a threat and never will be unless he exports fusion material to ISIS, beyond that, he's essentially a caged rabid chihuahua barking at anyone who will pay attention.
China knows this all too well, so again, why are we feeding this troll?
The solution is obvious:
#1 Sell (or give) short range tactical nukes to South Korea and/or Japan.
#2 If that is not enough to neutralize North Korea, simply inform Beijing Taiwan is next.
China will cave and will do what is necessary to NK.
Quote from: Rotwang on August 10, 2017, 07:33:55 PM
The solution is obvious:
#1 Sell (or give) short range tactical nukes to South Korea and/or Japan.
#2 If that is not enough to neutralize North Korea, simply inform Beijing Taiwan is next.
China will cave and will do what is necessary to NK.
Trump just approved a huge weapons package for Taiwan, China wasn't happy, and that was only the first salvo in his bag of tricks in getting China to move on NK.
Not all nations want nukes, it comes with a heavy price tag.
Quote from: Solar on August 10, 2017, 07:45:17 PM
Trump just approved a huge weapons package for Taiwan, China wasn't happy, and that was only the first salvo in his bag of tricks in getting China to move on NK.
Not all nations want nukes, it comes with a heavy price tag.
Looks like China is already worried.
QuoteIf North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 10, 2017, 04:59:50 PM
The Marxists are desperately trying to "pin" something on Trump. So far they got squat. If Yung Son Fool actually does launch something it would likely be to hit S. Korea and/or Japan. The Left would blame the attack on Trump's rhetoric goading the NORK's into attacking. If Trump stuck first (unlikely) he would be starting a war needlessly. Either way the Left has something to "impeach trump" with and "try him for war Crimes" ala Bush/Cheney.
Did you hear what Susan Rice said?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/346050-susan-rice-us-can-tolerate-n-korean-nukes
Shows you where they are coming from....tolerate a Madman having nukes to point at the rest of the world.
Maxine Waters has a solution. She said we should just ask NK what they want. Brilliant!
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 10, 2017, 04:59:50 PM
The Marxists are desperately trying to "pin" something on Trump. So far they got squat. If Yung Son Fool actually does launch something it would likely be to hit S. Korea and/or Japan. The Left would blame the attack on Trump's rhetoric goading the NORK's into attacking. If Trump stuck first (unlikely) he would be starting a war needlessly. Either way the Left has something to "impeach trump" with and "try him for war Crimes" ala Bush/Cheney.
Did you hear what Susan Rice said?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/346050-susan-rice-us-can-tolerate-n-korean-nukes
Shows you where they are coming from....tolerate a Madman having nukes to point at the rest of the world.
I heard an interesting commentary on the Obama / Rice era approach to world powers - let everyone go Nuclear, and thus give them an equal footing at the world table of ideas.
Sort of, "Well, eventually, everyone will be nuclear, so let's try to civilize them into the mainstream of the international community."Already know for projection, the assumption these rogue states will somehow become rational if we treat them with equality and respect, the Democrats actually think America is the moral equivalent to Iran and North Korea - we just have Nukes....???? :scared: Another Obama person said, 'Just give them what they want.' As if MONEY is all it takes - what if they want to destroy democracy, or Republic and enslave us? Give them what they want???
Keen insight into the Democrat mindset, buy off the howling masses! Can't get something you want through legislation, or the courts, send out paid protesters, and demand respect and 'what you want'... Democrats, assuming, the only solution is to, 'give them what they want', instead of discuss it in the public forum. If they don't get what they want, 'burn the bitch down'. The Union makes their demands known, striking and shutting down daily business operations - the strike fails, they'd rather see the whole business FAIL and stand in an unemployment line than negotiate a deal.
Is Yung Son Fool a Democrat at heart? He sure acts like one!
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 10, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
Since No.Korea is highly mountainous, they have built extensive underground facilities out of eyesight of our satellites and sensors, in order to house and test their nuclear weaponry.
As a consequence, we have been surprised by their technological progress.
So given their capability of creating underground facilities, should we assume that "our military has every single one of their weapons and launch sites targeted" Really?????
Yea, we really have little things that fly high, quietly, can see in the dark, through the clouds, and unleash terrible weapons of death and destruction.
Drones.You can't live in a cave forever, you need air to breathe. Once the landscape has been rearranged, there is no more air vents, water, waste disposal, the cave becomes your tomb. Every dictator understands the persuasion pain and suffering has on decision making - they fear it more than anyone else, they've seen the effects, first hand.
Quote
Suggest we let our military deal w/this in tandem w/their counterparts in So.Korea and Japan; while dramatically turning down the volume.
As for Trump pray for lengthy laryngitis and will somebody please toss his twitter machine in a raging fire!!!!!
I think the saying, "force is met by force" applies best to dictators. Overwhelming force is my hope, to bury this fanatical fool, Kim I'm Dung. IMO, Donald Trump is perfect for the solution... which will be messy, thanks to Bill Clinton and Barak Obama. Oh, remember them? They also turned down the volume, and paid off NK and Iran, destabilizing both areas where tiny democracies exist.
The bigger picture, Walter, (stay with me here..), China just expanded their territory into foreign waters, with a couple of "Military Resorts". They are determined to annex thousands of miles of international shipping lanes as their own territory. Thank you, Barak Obama & Susan Rice for that wonderful international diplomacy! :scared: Give up territory for peace!? :confused: Do we think, North Korea isn't mulling the idea of lopping off a chunk of South Korea... Sheol for instance, like China did, and threatening Japan, USA or ? if we try to take it back? Move on our annexed territory, and we'll sink every trade ship & nuke Japan.
North Korea successfully BLACKMAILED Clinton and Obama, and they still got nukes. Now the stakes are even higher. I don't know what Trump will do, if anything other than running his mouth off - but, it's working! :thumbup: He's got Russia and China to sign on with sanctions, he's beating the drums of war, and Kim I'm Dung is looking at 'alternative' targets for his latest blackmail scheme. The Governor of Guam PRAISED Donald Trump with a, 'hit the little bastard with everything you got!' - instead of shaking in his sandals and pleading for restraint.
I'm not over there, never have been - so, I'll default to the Governor of Guam's side. :thumbup:
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 10, 2017, 09:14:27 PM
Looks like China is already worried.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005
Interesting how China is attempting to define what constitutes an attack.
"If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States"
Forget all the NK rhetoric about destroying the US, we're expected to sit and wait patiently for people to die before we respond, those are the rules for engagement China wants to dictate.
I have news for China, unless they reign in their pet rabid Chihuahua, they will see what we think constitutes an attack, it's called any missile launch from here on out, despite claims it's merely a peaceful scientific endeavor, like when NK claimed to launch a satellite, which was actually a disguised ICBM test.
I have a feeling Trump will make clear, any launch is to be construed an aggressive measure and China better find a butt plug or carry a change of underwear, we're done allowing China to extort the West any longer via NK.
This is not NK extorting, this is China using a surrogate as part of its plan to rule over International shipping lanes that were never theirs, to begin with.
While everyone is distracted with NK, real planning is taking place all around the area, which is why China has been poking the rabid pup with a stick to draw more attention to the yapping fat ass mut.
I do expect to see Trump playing the showman with Taiwan, Japan and Guam and publically announcing more military support and sales to the region and upping the game that usually had a set amount of pieces to the board, but Trump is more than likely going to add a few to his side of the board and shake the shit out of China.
I do see a bit of global repositioning taking place and if China isn't careful, they could very easily wind up with the West setting up housing where NK used to be.
I believe more than anything, China needs to be reigned in as it attempts to set the stage for the 21st century it believes belong to China for world dominance.
I remain amazed at how the so-called intelligent elites continue to blather about how China needs to law down the law to NK. Just shows the elites are the dumbest of dumb asses. China is delighted to have NK get nukes and threaten us.
Quote from: ldub23 on August 11, 2017, 06:34:01 AM
I remain amazed at how the so-called intelligent elites continue to blather about how China needs to law down the law to NK. Just shows the elites are the dumbest of dumb asses. China is delighted to have NK get nukes and threaten us.
My guess would be that the recent advances in NORK missile technology (they finally got one to leave the launch pad without blowing up after 90 seconds) came from China...you know, China, the same China who got their Missile technology from Billy boy Clinton.
Hoofer, fair enough and w/respect.
My core point is simply that our military should handle this till conclusion, as that is where the expertise resides; not w/our political assholery and the collective media flackery.
I agree w/your perception of Clinton, a hustler; Bush, a moron and Obama, a fraud; who brought us to our present pass.
Add Trump, a blusterer as well as the Kimster, a demented paranoid and we have our current stew w/a very foul odor.
Certainly, I accept our broad technological superiority but I assert it is not absolute, from my perspective as a retired Engineer.
As for China, I'm least worried about them, per a brief note from history.
Since the Han and Qin Dynasties of the 5th century BC, China has been a Nation-State continually engulfed by division, strife and turmoil.
As a result, over a span of 25 centuries, China has never been a power on the world stage. Never, in the sense that Greece, Rome, Britain, Germany and Spain were.
Have they now arrived on that stage? Perhaps or perhaps not? We shall see, as numbers alone do not equate to greatness.
To me, the key to the Far East has always been Japan, who has thrashed both China and Russia w/regularity down through the centuries.
Stay well.
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 11, 2017, 11:45:01 AM
Hoofer, fair enough and w/respect.
My core point is simply that our military should handle this till conclusion, as that is where the expertise resides; not w/our political assholery and the collective media flackery.
I agree w/your perception of Clinton, a hustler; Bush, a moron and Obama, a fraud; who brought us to our present pass.
Add Trump, a blusterer as well as the Kimster, a demented paranoid and we have our current stew w/a very foul odor.
Certainly, I accept our broad technological superiority but I assert it is not absolute, from my perspective as a retired Engineer.
As for China, I'm least worried about them, per a brief note from history.
Since the Han and Qin Dynasties of the 5th century BC, China has been a Nation-State continually engulfed by division, strife and turmoil.
As a result, over a span of 25 centuries, China has never been a power on the world stage. Never, in the sense that Greece, Rome, Britain, Germany and Spain were.
Have they now arrived on that stage? Perhaps or perhaps not? We shall see, as numbers alone do not equate to greatness.
To me, the key to the Far East has always been Japan, who has thrashed both China and Russia w/regularity down through the centuries.
Stay well.
IMO.. and just that, and opinion. China is not going to lift a finger, unless their border is rushed with refugees. I don't think they can manage another war with us. They lost over 1 million to get what they got, a buffer state of North Korea. As you say, China has never been a world power, even if they are an emerging power lately, I think they know they're well outmatched. The last thing they want is a huge defensive network on Taiwan, Japan, South Korea & Guam. ...what is what Trump is wisely threating to do - good idea, Donald!
Donald Trump is the best thing we could possibly have in the White House for this crisis. It may get bloody, but that's the cost from the previous appeasers-in-chiefs. One other thing - you can bank on it, Iran, Syria & Israel are paying close attention too!
Just thinking what a real game-changer could be... like shooting down those missiles Kim has planned, moments after launch, before they leave North Korean territory. Hello, Kim, we thought you'd like these missiles back, here you go, boom, boom, boom, boom!
Quote from: Hoofer on August 11, 2017, 04:14:07 PM
IMO.. and just that, and opinion. China is not going to lift a finger, unless their border is rushed with refugees. I don't think they can manage another war with us.
Just thinking what a real game-changer could be... like shooting down those missiles Kim has planned, moments after launch, before they leave North Korean territory. Hello, Kim, we thought you'd like these missiles back, here you go, boom, boom, boom, boom!
A missile shoot down by a defensive net is most likely US/Allied forces response, however, remember the geographics involved here, NORK's war strategy is based around invading the south to "reunite" as well as plunder the south's resources. A mad rush through those invasion tunnels by the million man NORK Army, half starved by these newest sanctions would be more likely, it would be the most difficult scenario to counter.
I still don't think NORK missiles are a viable threat, AT THIS POINT, they just recently got one to clear the launch pad, they still don't have a way to attach a nuke warhead, now in the future things might be different as far as their probability of hitting the US. Japan and SOuth Korea would be more likely targets. Then again Fat boy has been messing around with Submarines which are always a threat, especially since our Navy is not what it used to be.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 12, 2017, 09:00:42 AM
A missile shoot down by a defensive net is most likely US/Allied forces response, however, remember the geographics involved here, NORK's war strategy is based around invading the south to "reunite" as well as plunder the south's resources. A mad rush through those invasion tunnels by the million man NORK Army, half starved by these newest sanctions would be more likely, it would be the most difficult scenario to counter.
I still don't think NORK missiles are a viable threat, AT THIS POINT, they just recently got one to clear the launch pad, they still don't have a way to attach a nuke warhead, now in the future things might be different as far as their probability of hitting the US. Japan and SOuth Korea would be more likely targets. Then again Fat boy has been messing around with Submarines which are always a threat, especially since our Navy is not what it used to be.
They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields. :biggrin:
But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.
Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 09:11:05 AM
They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields. :biggrin:
But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.
50's tech is about right, coupled with same 50's tactic's they used when the Marines ran out of ammunition shooting down their suicide charges. Thus their threat is limited to those place they could geographically breach.
Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 09:11:05 AM
They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields. :biggrin:
But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.
Maybe putting nukes on some of our military bases in south Korea might get China to bury the little fat pig.
Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Maybe putting nukes on some of our military bases in south Korea might get China to bury the little fat pig.
I'm wondering if he might start romancing Mongolia, another state on China' front door.
It wasn't until 1987, Reagan and Mongolia, and the United States signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which declared diplomatic relations. A year later, in 1988, the first American embassy in Ulaanbaatar was established, so the seeds were planted. :cool:
Add to that, India, another ally could easily accept another arms package, further sending the signal we're not taking China' shit.
Now Trump is making a presence around China' newly established man made illegal island military base, claim to shipping channels it the China sea.
China is not in a position to piss on the American market, for without us, there would be no China trade, they would collapse within a year.
Beijing is using underwater drones in the South China Sea to show off its might
China claims a massive section of the South China Sea that extends roughly 1,000 miles from its southern shores. The huge area is home to significant energy deposits and the world's busiest shipping routes, but Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also assert sovereign rights over parts of the international waterway.
The use of autonomous drones raises a number of questions as to whether Beijing is deploying the technology to support its aggressive expansion in the geopolitical hotspot.
The world's second-largest economy has been deploying disruptive technology that could strengthen its territorial ambitions in the South China Sea.
Late last month, Beijing dropped a dozen underwater drones, also known as unmanned underwater vehicles, in an unspecified location in the international waterway to carry out "scientific observations," state-run media outlet Xinhua reported.
A U.S. Navy MH-60R Sea Hawk helicopter from the "Blue Hawks" of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 78 fires chaff flares during a training exercise near the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) in the Philippine Sea April 24, 2017.
Sean M. Castellano | US Navy | Reuters
A U.S. Navy MH-60R Sea Hawk helicopter from the "Blue Hawks" of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 78 fires chaff flares during a training exercise near the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) in the Philippine Sea April 24, 2017.
The torpedo-shaped vehicles — called Haiyi, or sea wings in Mandarin — will remain underwater for a month, according to reports. In March, one device hit a depth of 6,329 meters, breaking an earlier record held by a U.S. vessel, Xinhua said.
China claims a massive section of the South China Sea that extends roughly 1,000 miles from its southern shores. The huge area is home to significant energy deposits and the world's busiest shipping routes, but Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also assert sovereign rights over parts of the international waterway.
The use of autonomous drones raises a number of questions as to whether Beijing is deploying the technology to support its aggressive expansion in the geopolitical hotspot.
Is China really using the drones for science?
Scientific purposes may be the official line from Chinese President Xi Jinping's administration, but political intentions can't be ignored. According to one theory, underwater drones are being utilized as a symbol of supremacy.
"It is a clear attempt to signal a capability associated with leading powers in terms of technology, which often translates to prestige," said Margaret Kosal, an associate professor at Georgia Tech who specializes in the role of emerging technologies for security.
Underwater drones are a demonstration of maritime strength and one of the many ways China is attempting to challenge the Western-dominated world order, she continued.
The U.S. Navy employs around 130 of those gadgets to collect oceanographic data. Last year, the Chinese navy seized one that was active in the South China Sea, sparking alarm.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/12/china-uses-underwater-drones-in-south-china-sea.html
Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 02:00:48 PM
I'm wondering if he might start romancing Mongolia, another state on China' front door.
It wasn't until 1987, Reagan and Mongolia, and the United States signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which declared diplomatic relations. A year later, in 1988, the first American embassy in Ulaanbaatar was established, so the seeds were planted. :cool:
Add to that, India, another ally could easily accept another arms package, further sending the signal we're not taking China' shit.
Now Trump is making a presence around China' newly established man made illegal island military base, claim to shipping channels it the China sea.
China is not in a position to piss on the American market, for without us, there would be no China trade, they would collapse within a year.
Yes sir, I believe the word for those actions is "diplomacy". :thumbup:
Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:19:56 PM
Yes sir, I believe the word for those actions is "diplomacy". :thumbup:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
"Diplomacy" translates to a big ass F-U! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 02:25:37 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
"Diplomacy" translates to a big ass F-U! :thumbsup:
Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.
You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.
Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:32:25 PM
Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.
You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.
Exactly! No matter what the media presses as a narrative, truth is, Trump wins and China will force Kim to STFU and attend talks, where Trump will lay down an ultimatum with teeth.
Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:32:25 PM
Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.
You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.
Trump sending a message.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthediplomat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F03%2Fthediplomat_2016-03-09_18-42-43-386x257.jpg&hash=0561456cd79b87f10370b96ccffc7720fd297c9c)
Military Sealift Command dry cargo/ammunition ship USNS Richard E. Byrd at anchor while undergoing a routine seven-day maintenance availability in Cam Ranh Bay port in 2011. Byrd was the first U.S. Navy ship to visit the port in more than 38 years.
WASHINGTON, DC – Though Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich and U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis discussed a wide range of issues in their bilateral defense ties during their August 8 meeting, the biggest headline item that emerged was the first visit of a U.S. aircraft carrier to Vietnam, set for next year. While the move had long been under discussion by both sides, it represents yet another step forward for a relationship that has seen some quick gains in the Trump administration thus far despite deeper, lingering challenges that remain.
On Tuesday, Vietnam's Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich finally met with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis in a much-anticipated meeting that had been postponed from its original date. The two took stock of defense ties to date and agreed to deepen cooperation in several areas, including more naval engagement and information-sharing. They also discussed regional security challenges, with the South China Sea being a focus given Hanoi's growing concerns about new manifestations of old Chinese assertiveness, including stopping Vietnam from exploring and exploiting energy resources within its own waters.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/will-a-china-asean-south-china-sea-code-of-conduct-really-matter/
So we are going to send ships to the region to protect Guam. We re going to help strengthen South Korea's military and Japan is on the defensive. Suddenly China is no longer the big dog in the area thanks to Kim jr.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 12, 2017, 07:35:47 PM
So we are going to send ships to the region to protect Guam. We re going to help strengthen South Korea's military and Japan is on the defensive. Suddenly China is no longer the big dog in the area thanks to Kim jr.
That about sums it up boo.
China let their dog run loose in a park, barking and nipping at everyones, ankles and being a basin nuisance disrupting the peace, kids can't get ice cream from the local vendor because it upsets local trade in the area, it even attempted to mark and guard property it has no right to.
All the while its handler, China, denied ownership.
Trump comes along, kicks the dog, and the bleeding hearts come to its defense despite its behavior, so trump gathers the angry community to come together to take back their park and the dog's owner starts peeing on all the corners of the park, even pooping at the entrance to the park in an attempt to lay claim as if that's how it's always been. (it's our park, it's even named after us)
Had the dogs' owner been more cooperative, and simply kept him in his yard, the community would have been more than happy to continue trade in a peaceful manner, but now the community has turned against the dog and its handler, exposing what an ass hole they both really are.
If he's not careful, he just might lose park privileges and neighbors willing to do business with him.
One of their biggest trading partners would actually thrive if they quit trading with them altogether.
Can you imagine the boom we'd experience if the world discovered American quality once again?
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 12, 2017, 07:35:47 PM
So we are going to send ships to the region to protect Guam. We re going to help strengthen South Korea's military and Japan is on the defensive. Suddenly China is no longer the big dog in the area thanks to Kim jr.
Democrats are probably concerned... Making waves and capsizing the whole friggin' island!!! Post those "No Wake" buoys, quick!
That's a hell of a way to start a war, the headline, "
Rogue Missile Makes Waves, Rocks Island". We need to get Hank Johnson's take on this again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q&spfreload=10
Long read, but pretty much the essence of what I've said all along, that China backing NK is a losing proposition if they don't get the little fat fuck under control, which they can in a second.
China wants the world to think of NK as a sovereign state so it can play innocent, fact is, NK doesn't even sneeze without Beijing's permission.
Trump not only rallied ally support, but threatened nukes in Japan and China fears the same in SK, upped arm sales to Taiwan, all the while China pretends NK is its own state.
Trump is now in position at calling the shots and China knows they've been backed into a corner, and if they want to keep their yapping Chihuahua, they better muzzle its ass and stick it in a cage never to be heard from again.
China is out of options....
China's Xi Grapples With Rising Cost of Backing Kim Jong Un
While China officially wants a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, Beijing has long tolerated North Korea's weapons program because it sees the collapse of Kim's regime as a greater strategic threat. That could lead to U.S. troops on its border aligned with a unified Korea, eliminating the buffer that North Korea now provides -- along with its regular threats against common enemies.
Yet China's rise on the world stage has given it a bigger stake in maintaining global stability, not least to keep up economic growth rates that underpin the Communist Party's grip on power. China is also concerned that new missile defense systems in South Korea and Japan could counter its own military capabilities, and that those countries may one day seek their own nuclear weapons to deter North Korea.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-13/china-s-xi-grapples-with-rising-cost-of-supporting-kim-jong-un
Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2017, 05:48:59 AM
Long read, but pretty much the essence of what I've said all along, that China backing NK is a losing proposition if they don't get the little fat fuck under control, which they can in a second.
China wants the world to think of NK as a sovereign state so it can play innocent, fact is, NK doesn't even sneeze without Beijing's permission.
Trump not only rallied ally support, but threatened nukes in Japan and China fears the same in SK, upped arm sales to Taiwan, all the while China pretends NK is its own state.
Trump is now in position at calling the shots and China knows they've been backed into a corner, and if they want to keep their yapping Chihuahua, they better muzzle its ass and stick it in a cage never to be heard from again.
China is out of options....
China's Xi Grapples With Rising Cost of Backing Kim Jong Un
While China officially wants a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, Beijing has long tolerated North Korea's weapons program because it sees the collapse of Kim's regime as a greater strategic threat. That could lead to U.S. troops on its border aligned with a unified Korea, eliminating the buffer that North Korea now provides -- along with its regular threats against common enemies.
Yet China's rise on the world stage has given it a bigger stake in maintaining global stability, not least to keep up economic growth rates that underpin the Communist Party's grip on power. China is also concerned that new missile defense systems in South Korea and Japan could counter its own military capabilities, and that those countries may one day seek their own nuclear weapons to deter North Korea.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-13/china-s-xi-grapples-with-rising-cost-of-supporting-kim-jong-un
China announced some additional actions against NK. Could very well be a smoke screen, but we shall see. China has become capitalist enough now to make their economy primary over commie ideals.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 14, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
China announced some additional actions against NK. Could very well be a smoke screen, but we shall see. China has become capitalist enough now to make their economy primary over commie ideals.
And that's the thing, after the Korean war, China went back to turtle mode essentially, closing off and hiding in its shell from the rest of the world, that was until Nixon opened the doors to China and trade a few decades later.
Nothing else changed, NK was still its guard dog on the peninsula doing its appointed duties, as China ventured out into waters known as free trade routes and attempted to flex it muscle by claiming sunken reefs as mere islands waiting to be developed, all their own, which would expand China's boundaries out to sea another 1000 miles.
They thought they could use NK to ratchet up ire via distraction, but the plan has actually backfired because not only did it expose China's control over NK, it drew attention from its neighbors and asking why China needs to assert power over an area no one ever claimed a right to.
During all of this, Trump is drawing in new allies in the war against NK, from Mongolia to Vietnam, Japan, Guam, and SK, while China is left holding a blivet not even Russia is interested in dealing with.
Trump has done what no other POTUS before him has done, and that's put China in check.
Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2017, 09:16:58 AM
And that's the thing, after the Korean war, China went back to turtle mode essentially, closing off and hiding in its shell from the rest of the world, that was until Nixon opened the doors to China and trade a few decades later.
Nothing else changed, NK was still its guard dog on the peninsula doing its appointed duties, as China ventured out into waters known as free trade routes and attempted to flex it muscle by claiming sunken reefs as mere islands waiting to be developed, all their own, which would expand China's boundaries out to sea another 1000 miles.
They thought they could use NK to ratchet up ire via distraction, but the plan has actually backfired because not only did it expose China's control over NK, it drew attention from its neighbors and asking why China needs to assert power over an area no one ever claimed a right to.
During all of this, Trump is drawing in new allies in the war against NK, from Mongolia to Vietnam, Japan, Guam, and SK, while China is left holding a blivet not even Russia is interested in dealing with.
Trump has done what no other POTUS before him has done, and that's put China in check.
Seems to be an essential element, if you want to go down as a great POTUS.
Reagan talked tough to Russia, the MSM condemned him and kept hollaring he's gonna start a war (which actually helped Reagan push starwars missile defense system - made it sound believable)
Trump talks tough to North Korea & China, the MSM condemn him and keep hollaring he's gonna start a war...
What did Obama, Bush & Clinton do? Allow NK to arm up, give away missile launch technology to China, buy off a few years of North Korean silence while they armed up. 25yrs of negotiations & kicking the can down the road.
Why isn't anyone in the MSM saying, Trump is actually doing China a favor, giving them an excuse to clamp down on North Korea?
Quote from: Hoofer on August 14, 2017, 11:27:48 AM
Seems to be an essential element, if you want to go down as a great POTUS.
Reagan talked tough to Russia, the MSM condemned him and kept hollaring he's gonna start a war (which actually helped Reagan push starwars missile defense system - made it sound believable)
Trump talks tough to North Korea & China, the MSM condemn him and keep hollaring he's gonna start a war...
What did Obama, Bush & Clinton do? Allow NK to arm up, give away missile launch technology to China, buy off a few years of North Korean silence while they armed up. 25yrs of negotiations & kicking the can down the road.
Why isn't anyone in the MSM saying, Trump, is actually doing China a favor, giving them an excuse to clamp down on North Korea?
Exactly! Reagan made serious inroads with Mongolia in opening our first Embassy, and hindsight being 20/ 20, it's apparent Regan was sending China a message back then.
China is solidly in the driver seat in controlling the little fat bastard, and Trump has exposed them as being the true disruptor in the South China Sea debacle via NK.
China holds the power to end this BS by reigning in NK through its continual propping up of the commie regime as noted in the graph below.
Like I said, Trump has China in check, and it's their move. :biggrin:
(https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iHhU7VNLr2SU/v1/800x-1.png)
Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2017, 12:03:44 PM
Exactly! Reagan made serious inroads with Mongolia in opening our first Embassy, and hindsight being 20/ 20, it's apparent Regan was sending China a message back then.
China is solidly in the driver seat in controlling the little fat bastard, and Trump has exposed them as being the true disruptor in the South China Sea debacle via NK.
China holds the power to end this BS by reigning in NK through its continual propping up of the commie regime as noted in the graph below.
Like I said, Trump has China in check, and it's their move. :biggrin:
Forgot to mention, How did Ronald Reagan shut up a militaristic dictator, who was sponsoring terror across the ocean?
Kaddaffi had his residence bombed, dead kids... He shut down his nuke program and shut the hell up.
Why isn't the MSM recalling what Reagan did - cause Trump is calling NK's bluff, just like Reagan did to Egypt.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 14, 2017, 12:46:56 PM
Forgot to mention, How did Ronald Reagan shut up a militaristic dictator, who was sponsoring terror across the ocean?
Kaddaffi had his residence bombed, dead kids... He shut down his nuke program and shut the hell up.
Why isn't the MSM recalling what Reagan did - cause Trump is calling NK's bluff, just like Reagan did to Egypt.
Because it works and they are not about to give Trump any credit. He is quietly embarrassing Obama with his foreign policy moves.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 14, 2017, 12:57:06 PM
Because it works and they are not about to give Trump any credit. He is quietly embarrassing Obama with his foreign policy moves.
Bingo!!!
That's it, in a nutshell, they hate the fact that he's showing up the Marxist, just like Reagan did to Carter.
I told ya Trump put China in Check. :thumbsup:
China implements UN sanctions against North Korea, as Trump trade probe looms
In an unprecedented move against North Korea, China on Monday issued an order to carry out the United Nations sanctions imposed on the rogue regime earlier this month.
China made the announcement amid not only Pyongyang's escalating war of words with the United States regarding the North Korea nuclear missile program, but also as President Trump was reportedly set to order an investigation into China's trade practice -- a probe which could lead the U.S. to levy its own sanctions on Beijing.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/14/china-implements-un-sanctions-against-north-korea-as-trump-trade-probe-looms.html
They're getting nervous. They're not going to let a pudgy kid with weird hair stop their attempts to take over the Asian waters.
Quote from: Solar on August 13, 2017, 06:08:01 AM
That about sums it up boo.
China let their dog run loose in a park, barking and nipping at everyones, ankles and being a basin nuisance disrupting the peace, kids can't get ice cream from the local vendor because it upsets local trade in the area, it even attempted to mark and guard property it has no right to.
All the while its handler, China, denied ownership.
Trump comes along, kicks the dog, and the bleeding hearts come to its defense despite its behavior, so trump gathers the angry community to come together to take back their park and the dog's owner starts peeing on all the corners of the park, even pooping at the entrance to the park in an attempt to lay claim as if that's how it's always been. (it's our park, it's even named after us)
Had the dogs' owner been more cooperative, and simply kept him in his yard, the community would have been more than happy to continue trade in a peaceful manner, but now the community has turned against the dog and its handler, exposing what an ass hole they both really are.
If he's not careful, he just might lose park privileges and neighbors willing to do business with him.
One of their biggest trading partners would actually thrive if they quit trading with them altogether.
Can you imagine the boom we'd experience if the world discovered American quality once again?
And now the neighbors may get dogs of their own. Nuclear dogs. That's their biggest worry.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 14, 2017, 06:44:01 PM
And now the neighbors may get dogs of their own. Nuclear dogs. That's their biggest worry.
Yep, that and China just might see Apple find another country to make their phones, another hit they can't afford.
One thing that worries them the most, is a trade war, if Trump rallies the nation around the idea of building in America again, China will fall and it would take decades for them to recover.
Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2017, 03:28:45 PM
Bingo!!!
That's it, in a nutshell, they hate the fact that he's showing up the Marxist, just like Reagan did to Carter.
excellent comment, what makes a good POTUS great? Whom exits the WH before him. Roses smell OK - but dog crap can make roses smell heavenly!
Quote from: Hoofer on August 15, 2017, 05:14:06 AM
excellent comment, what makes a good POTUS great? Whom exits the WH before him. Roses smell OK - but dog crap can make roses smell heavenly!
Kind of exposes how the left is losing power of media control.
No matter how much they attack Trump and try and set the narrative, they lose even more credibility and Trump gains.
The truth is getting out in spite of leftist talking point memos. If not for the web, I'd know little of the situation because the left would see fit I only hear their lies.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 11, 2017, 04:14:07 PM
IMO.. and just that, and opinion. China is not going to lift a finger, unless their border is rushed with refugees. I don't think they can manage another war with us. They lost over 1 million to get what they got, a buffer state of North Korea. As you say, China has never been a world power, even if they are an emerging power lately, I think they know they're well outmatched. The last thing they want is a huge defensive network on Taiwan, Japan, South Korea & Guam. ...what is what Trump is wisely threating to do - good idea, Donald!
Donald Trump is the best thing we could possibly have in the White House for this crisis. It may get bloody, but that's the cost from the previous appeasers-in-chiefs. One other thing - you can bank on it, Iran, Syria & Israel are paying close attention too!
Just thinking what a real game-changer could be... like shooting down those missiles Kim has planned, moments after launch, before they leave North Korean territory. Hello, Kim, we thought you'd like these missiles back, here you go, boom, boom, boom, boom!
North Korea has suspended the idea of shooting missiles over Guam.
Donald Trump and his advisors deserve the credit for this small step forward.
Making America RESPECTED again is part of making America Great Again.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 15, 2017, 10:21:59 AM
North Korea has suspended the idea of shooting missiles over Guam.
Donald Trump and his advisors deserve the credit for this small step forward.
Making America RESPECTED again is part of making America Great Again.
Kim is desperate for $$$$ to keep him in Hookers and Coke.
He's played this card with every American President since day one, and they all appease him.
But Trump will not.
Quote from: Rotwang on August 18, 2017, 08:47:09 PM
Kim is desperate for $$$$ to keep him in Hookers and Coke.
He's played this card with every American President since day one, and they all appease him.
But Trump will not.
All true but he also revealed his hand in a way. He spent weeks telling the world he can wipe out the US and then in the end threatened to test missiles near Guam. He basically admitted he can't hurt the US and someone must have done some basic calculations and realized being wiped out for firing missiles somewhere near nowhere close to the US was a bad idea.