Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 10, 2017, 09:14:27 PM
Looks like China is already worried.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005

Interesting how China is attempting to define what constitutes an attack.
"If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States"

Forget all the NK rhetoric about destroying the US, we're expected to sit and wait patiently for people to die before we respond, those are the rules for engagement China wants to dictate.
I have news for China, unless they reign in their pet rabid Chihuahua, they will see what we think constitutes an attack, it's called any missile launch from here on out, despite claims it's merely a peaceful scientific endeavor, like when NK claimed to launch a satellite, which was actually a disguised ICBM test.

I have a feeling Trump will make clear, any launch is to be construed an aggressive measure and China better find a butt plug or carry a change of underwear, we're done allowing China to extort the West any longer via NK.
This is not NK extorting, this is China using a surrogate as part of its plan to rule over International shipping lanes that were never theirs, to begin with.

While everyone is distracted with NK, real planning is taking place all around the area, which is why China has been poking the rabid pup with a stick to draw more attention to the yapping fat ass mut.
I do expect to see Trump playing the showman with Taiwan, Japan and Guam and publically announcing more military support and sales to the region and upping the game that usually had a set amount of pieces to the board, but Trump is more than likely going to add a few to his side of the board and shake the shit out of China.

I do see a bit of global repositioning taking place and if China isn't careful, they could very easily wind up with the West setting up housing where NK used to be.

I believe more than anything, China needs to be reigned in as it attempts to set the stage for the 21st century it believes belong to China for world dominance.

I remain amazed at how the so-called intelligent elites continue to blather about how China needs to law down the law to NK. Just shows the elites are the dumbest  of  dumb asses. China is delighted to have NK get nukes and threaten us.

Quote from: ldub23 on August 11, 2017, 06:34:01 AM
I remain amazed at how the so-called intelligent elites continue to blather about how China needs to law down the law to NK. Just shows the elites are the dumbest  of  dumb asses. China is delighted to have NK get nukes and threaten us.

My guess would be that the recent advances in NORK missile technology (they finally got one to leave the launch pad without blowing up after 90 seconds) came from China...you know, China, the same China who got their Missile technology from Billy boy Clinton.

Hoofer, fair enough and w/respect.
My core point is simply that our military should handle this till conclusion, as that is where the expertise resides; not w/our political assholery and the collective media flackery.
I agree w/your perception of Clinton, a hustler; Bush, a moron and Obama, a fraud; who brought us to our present pass.
Add Trump, a blusterer as well as the Kimster, a demented paranoid and we have our current stew w/a very foul odor.
Certainly, I accept our broad technological superiority but I assert it is not absolute, from my perspective as a retired Engineer.
As for China, I'm least worried about them, per a brief note from history.
Since the Han and Qin Dynasties of the 5th century BC, China has been a Nation-State continually engulfed by division, strife and turmoil.
As a result, over a span of 25 centuries, China has never been a power on the world stage. Never, in the sense that Greece, Rome, Britain, Germany and Spain were.
Have they now arrived on that stage? Perhaps or perhaps not? We shall see, as numbers alone do not equate to greatness.
To me, the key to the Far East has always been Japan, who has thrashed both China and Russia w/regularity down through the centuries.
Stay well.

Quote from: Walter Josh on August 11, 2017, 11:45:01 AM
Hoofer, fair enough and w/respect.
My core point is simply that our military should handle this till conclusion, as that is where the expertise resides; not w/our political assholery and the collective media flackery.
I agree w/your perception of Clinton, a hustler; Bush, a moron and Obama, a fraud; who brought us to our present pass.
Add Trump, a blusterer as well as the Kimster, a demented paranoid and we have our current stew w/a very foul odor.
Certainly, I accept our broad technological superiority but I assert it is not absolute, from my perspective as a retired Engineer.
As for China, I'm least worried about them, per a brief note from history.
Since the Han and Qin Dynasties of the 5th century BC, China has been a Nation-State continually engulfed by division, strife and turmoil.
As a result, over a span of 25 centuries, China has never been a power on the world stage. Never, in the sense that Greece, Rome, Britain, Germany and Spain were.
Have they now arrived on that stage? Perhaps or perhaps not? We shall see, as numbers alone do not equate to greatness.
To me, the key to the Far East has always been Japan, who has thrashed both China and Russia w/regularity down through the centuries.
Stay well.

IMO.. and just that, and opinion.   China is not going to lift a finger, unless their border is rushed with refugees.  I don't think they can manage another war with us.   They lost over 1 million to get what they got, a buffer state of North Korea.  As you say, China has never been a world power, even if they are an emerging power lately, I think they know they're well outmatched.  The last thing they want is a huge defensive network on Taiwan, Japan, South Korea & Guam.   ...what is what Trump is wisely threating to do - good idea, Donald!

Donald Trump is the best thing we could possibly have in the White House for this crisis.  It may get bloody, but that's the cost from the previous appeasers-in-chiefs.   One other thing - you can bank on it, Iran, Syria & Israel are paying close attention too!

Just thinking what a real game-changer could be... like shooting down those missiles Kim has planned, moments after launch, before they leave North Korean territory.   Hello, Kim, we thought you'd like these missiles back, here you go, boom, boom, boom, boom!

Quote from: Hoofer on August 11, 2017, 04:14:07 PM
IMO.. and just that, and opinion.   China is not going to lift a finger, unless their border is rushed with refugees.  I don't think they can manage another war with us.   


Just thinking what a real game-changer could be... like shooting down those missiles Kim has planned, moments after launch, before they leave North Korean territory.   Hello, Kim, we thought you'd like these missiles back, here you go, boom, boom, boom, boom!

A missile shoot down by a defensive net is most likely US/Allied forces response, however, remember the geographics involved here, NORK's war strategy is based around invading the south to "reunite" as well as plunder the south's resources. A mad rush through those invasion tunnels by the million man NORK Army, half starved by these newest sanctions would be more likely, it would be the most difficult scenario to counter.

I still don't think NORK missiles are a viable threat, AT THIS POINT, they just recently got one to clear the launch pad, they still don't have a way to attach a nuke warhead, now in the future things might be different as far as their probability of hitting the US. Japan and SOuth Korea would be more likely targets. Then again Fat boy has been messing around with Submarines which are always a threat, especially since our Navy is not what it used to be.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 12, 2017, 09:00:42 AM
A missile shoot down by a defensive net is most likely US/Allied forces response, however, remember the geographics involved here, NORK's war strategy is based around invading the south to "reunite" as well as plunder the south's resources. A mad rush through those invasion tunnels by the million man NORK Army, half starved by these newest sanctions would be more likely, it would be the most difficult scenario to counter.

I still don't think NORK missiles are a viable threat, AT THIS POINT, they just recently got one to clear the launch pad, they still don't have a way to attach a nuke warhead, now in the future things might be different as far as their probability of hitting the US. Japan and SOuth Korea would be more likely targets. Then again Fat boy has been messing around with Submarines which are always a threat, especially since our Navy is not what it used to be.

They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields.

But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.

Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 09:11:05 AM
They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields.

But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.

50's tech is about right, coupled with same 50's tactic's they used when the Marines ran out of ammunition shooting down their suicide charges.  Thus their threat is limited to those place they could geographically breach.

Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 09:11:05 AM
They haven't had a successful tunnel since we destroyed their last attempt at crossing under when I was there in the early 70s.
The Z is wired with seismic sensors and listening devices all up and down the border, they won't be crossing via tunnels, and the Z is also heavily mined, so that option is out unless they have volunteers willing to point out their exact placement by running through the fields.

But you're right, which is kind of the point of this thread. Beyond a yapping mutt on a chain, NK simply isn't a real threat today any more than it was a decade ago, or 4 decades ago, they're still stuck using 50s tech pretty much, assuming China doesn't spike the game.

Maybe putting nukes on some of our military bases in south Korea might get China to bury the little fat pig.

Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
Maybe putting nukes on some of our military bases in south Korea might get China to bury the little fat pig.

I'm wondering if he might start romancing Mongolia, another state on China' front door.
It wasn't until 1987, Reagan and Mongolia, and the United States signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which declared diplomatic relations. A year later, in 1988, the first American embassy in Ulaanbaatar was established, so the seeds were planted.

Add to that, India, another ally could easily accept another arms package, further sending the signal we're not taking China' shit.
Now Trump is making a presence around China' newly established man made illegal island military base, claim to shipping channels it the China sea.
China is not in a position to piss on the American market, for without us, there would be no China trade, they would collapse within a year.

Beijing is using underwater drones in the South China Sea to show off its might

China claims a massive section of the South China Sea that extends roughly 1,000 miles from its southern shores. The huge area is home to significant energy deposits and the world's busiest shipping routes, but Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also assert sovereign rights over parts of the international waterway.

The use of autonomous drones raises a number of questions as to whether Beijing is deploying the technology to support its aggressive expansion in the geopolitical hotspot.

The world's second-largest economy has been deploying disruptive technology that could strengthen its territorial ambitions in the South China Sea.

Late last month, Beijing dropped a dozen underwater drones, also known as unmanned underwater vehicles, in an unspecified location in the international waterway to carry out "scientific observations," state-run media outlet Xinhua reported.

A U.S. Navy MH-60R Sea Hawk helicopter from the "Blue Hawks" of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 78 fires chaff flares during a training exercise near the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) in the Philippine Sea April 24, 2017.
Sean M. Castellano | US Navy | Reuters
A U.S. Navy MH-60R Sea Hawk helicopter from the "Blue Hawks" of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 78 fires chaff flares during a training exercise near the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) in the Philippine Sea April 24, 2017.
The torpedo-shaped vehicles — called Haiyi, or sea wings in Mandarin — will remain underwater for a month, according to reports. In March, one device hit a depth of 6,329 meters, breaking an earlier record held by a U.S. vessel, Xinhua said.

China claims a massive section of the South China Sea that extends roughly 1,000 miles from its southern shores. The huge area is home to significant energy deposits and the world's busiest shipping routes, but Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also assert sovereign rights over parts of the international waterway.

The use of autonomous drones raises a number of questions as to whether Beijing is deploying the technology to support its aggressive expansion in the geopolitical hotspot.

Is China really using the drones for science?

Scientific purposes may be the official line from Chinese President Xi Jinping's administration, but political intentions can't be ignored. According to one theory, underwater drones are being utilized as a symbol of supremacy.

"It is a clear attempt to signal a capability associated with leading powers in terms of technology, which often translates to prestige," said Margaret Kosal, an associate professor at Georgia Tech who specializes in the role of emerging technologies for security.

Underwater drones are a demonstration of maritime strength and one of the many ways China is attempting to challenge the Western-dominated world order, she continued.

The U.S. Navy employs around 130 of those gadgets to collect oceanographic data. Last year, the Chinese navy seized one that was active in the South China Sea, sparking alarm.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/12/china-uses-underwater-drones-in-south-china-sea.html

Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 02:00:48 PM
I'm wondering if he might start romancing Mongolia, another state on China' front door.
It wasn't until 1987, Reagan and Mongolia, and the United States signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which declared diplomatic relations. A year later, in 1988, the first American embassy in Ulaanbaatar was established, so the seeds were planted.

Add to that, India, another ally could easily accept another arms package, further sending the signal we're not taking China' shit.
Now Trump is making a presence around China' newly established man made illegal island military base, claim to shipping channels it the China sea.
China is not in a position to piss on the American market, for without us, there would be no China trade, they would collapse within a year.

Yes sir, I believe the word for those actions is "diplomacy". 

Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:19:56 PM
Yes sir, I believe the word for those actions is "diplomacy". 

"Diplomacy" translates to a big ass F-U!

Quote from: Solar on August 12, 2017, 02:25:37 PM

"Diplomacy" translates to a big ass F-U!

Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.

You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.

Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:32:25 PM
Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.

You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.

Exactly! No matter what the media presses as a narrative, truth is, Trump wins and China will force Kim to STFU and attend talks, where Trump will lay down an ultimatum with teeth.

Quote from: s3779m on August 12, 2017, 02:32:25 PM
Even the fat little pig should know if the U.S. starts supplying nukes to South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, ect.. China will be coming for him.

You might have hit on the best solution, we won';t get to see all the pretty fireworks, but the best solution.

Trump sending a message.



Military Sealift Command dry cargo/ammunition ship USNS Richard E. Byrd at anchor while undergoing a routine seven-day maintenance availability in Cam Ranh Bay port in 2011. Byrd was the first U.S. Navy ship to visit the port in more than 38 years.

WASHINGTON, DC – Though Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich and U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis discussed a wide range of issues in their bilateral defense ties during their August 8 meeting, the biggest headline item that emerged was the first visit of a U.S. aircraft carrier to Vietnam, set for next year. While the move had long been under discussion by both sides, it represents yet another step forward for a relationship that has seen some quick gains in the Trump administration thus far despite deeper, lingering challenges that remain.

On Tuesday, Vietnam's Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich finally met with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis in a much-anticipated meeting that had been postponed from its original date. The two took stock of defense ties to date and agreed to deepen cooperation in several areas, including more naval engagement and information-sharing. They also discussed regional security challenges, with the South China Sea being a focus given Hanoi's growing concerns about new manifestations of old Chinese assertiveness, including stopping Vietnam from exploring and exploiting energy resources within its own waters.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/will-a-china-asean-south-china-sea-code-of-conduct-really-matter/