Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2010, 06:09:57 AM
OK, come on back in from left field, and tell us what you think an right wing extremist is, because based on what the MSM says, I'm one of them, and damned proud of it.

        So your saying you dont believe there is such a thing as the far right....theres just a far left ?

Quote from: arpad on December 15, 2010, 06:21:06 AM
Now don't be tough on yourself zip when there are people who are both willing to be tough on you and enjoy performing the service.

Ba-dum-bum.

The short answer: $25. At least I think that's what membership costs in the Michigan Republican party. Probably varies from state to state.

The longer answer is that the parties are representative of different tendencies in human nature. Within broad confines, the Democrats have always represented the less mature, more selfish, more shortsighted elements of humanity. That's why they tend to govern via crisis and why they reflexively find, worsen and use divisions among people.

   Not a problem...I can handle it...acutally Ive always been at my best under pressure....

    Oh and btw your definitions  or the parties are just your opinion? right  arpad and we know opinions  are just like assholes right ? even dogs have one. I have one and I have my own opinions :)

Quote from: Eyesabide on December 15, 2010, 06:25:23 AM
Zip, you are a rare bird.

        A Mugwump. I never had thought I would see one in the wild, but there you are.

        Your "Mug" is on one side of the fence, your "Wumps" on the other.

        You stimulate some thought though.

       

       You can mugwump this dude....I am not a mugwump, what I am is a republican who does not agree with all their party bullshit...if you do your just a follow the piedpiper wumpmug

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2010, 06:36:43 AM
I could understand it in 1884, but to be a fence sitter in this day and age....

  Fence sitter my ass...I just dont  follow the leader and say what you people want...dont like that?  lo, l tough fecal matter,  I aint gonna change any time soon either...Some of you seem to agree with each other to feel like you  belong or something..pretty friggin wimpy :)

       Someone needs to get this forum going ")...and someone needs to break up the ultra right wing circlejerkin that goes on here. lol...man up and start admitting that the republican party aint godly and the teaparty is going to fail bigtime if  every republican thats like me..and that id bet is a whopping 80% start getting the feeling that the teaparty leaderships sole goal is to assure the rich pay even less in taxs...and any and all entitlements are wiped out. Not going to work just like the dems socialism  crap wont work...

      I have a feeling some of you are going to be very mad at me before this is over...and I also have a feeling i wont give a shit lol

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on December 15, 2010, 10:34:54 AM
OK, I'll simplify for you.

Core beliefs.  Good.

Core values.  Good.

Core morals.  Good.

Independent thinking.  Good.

Democrat Party.  Who cares.

Republican Party.  Who cares.

   There ya go then you can appreciate my thinking independently from everyone else :)

Quote from: Berggeist on December 15, 2010, 06:55:25 AM
ZIP,

Do you mean "republican" or "Republican"!  There is a compelling difference!  A republican is a man, having nothing to do with a political party or faction, who has character.  A man with character is a man who has acquired, internalized and lives out the cardinal virtues, the capital virtues and the theological virtues.

A Republican is a man who is the heir of the Federalist and Whig traditions in American history.  He is the member of a political faction which at its core is made up ofcorporatists, bankers, stock jobbers and paper aristocracy.  As the core group of that party, they could never win elections; however, they always find allies.  Lincoln and the Republicans of the late 1850's found them in radical anti-Southern abolistionists, in anti-African Free Soilers, and in new immigrants, particularly the radical Marxist and nationalist Germans.  Those Republicans were able to in elections as a regional party.

The modern Republican Party is at its core still the corporatists, bankers, stock jobbers and paper aristocracy.  They would still be unable to win elections if they could not find allies.  Their most recent allies have been evangelical Christians and Southerners.  The Republican Party has actually delivered little to nothing to these "allies," who are absolutely fools for trusting the Republicans.  It would seem that the core of the party is now seeking new allies, perhaps among the legal and illegal immigrants and blacks.

The late George Wallace said of the two parties - the Republican and the Democratic - that there was not a dime's worth of differenct between them.  The late Sam Francis said of the two parties that one was the stupid party and one was the evil party and that they sometimes changed labels.

I have utterly nothing for either party.  I do, however, admire republican men who are, these days, as rare as hen's teeth!

The modern Republican Party is at its core still the corporatists, bankers, stock jobbers and paper aristocracy.  They would still be unable to win elections if they could not find allies.  Their most recent allies have been evangelical Christians and Southerners.  The Republican Party has actually delivered little to nothing to these "allies," who are absolutely fools for trusting the Republicans.  It would seem that the core of the party is now seeking new allies, perhaps among the legal and illegal immigrants and blacks.

  You said exactly what I was trying to convey in my post...with alot more clarity.
Bottom line is they cant win without allies...like umm ME :)

Quote from: zip on December 16, 2010, 04:42:53 AM
       Someone needs to get this forum going ")...and someone needs to break up the ultra right wing circlejerkin that goes on here. lol...man up and start admitting that the republican party aint godly and the teaparty is going to fail bigtime if  every republican thats like me..and that id bet is a whopping 80% start getting the feeling that the teaparty leaderships sole goal is to assure the rich pay even less in taxs...and any and all entitlements are wiped out. Not going to work just like the dems socialism  crap wont work...

      I have a feeling some of you are going to be very mad at me before this is over...and I also have a feeling i wont give a fecal matter lol

No, no one will be mad at you, disappointed maybe, but only because you're not listening.
You have know idea what the Tea part is, or stands for.
We aren't a bunch of rich guys, were just people for all over the Country, of every race/religion that believe the Gov has grown way to big and needs to be corralled.

Taxes are too high, the gov is now in every aspect of your life, so...all at the same time, we told the Republicans, enough is enough, either cut the spending and return to what our Forefathers intended, or else.
Erll, the or else is scaring the Hell out of them, and if they don't straighten up come 2012, they may see a new party take their place.

Quote from: Solar on December 16, 2010, 05:58:24 AM
No, no one will be mad at you, disappointed maybe, but only because you're not listening.
You have know idea what the Tea part is, or stands for.
We aren't a bunch of rich guys, were just people for all over the Country, of every race/religion that believe the Gov has grown way to big and needs to be corralled.

Taxes are too high, the gov is now in every aspect of your life, so...all at the same time, we told the Republicans, enough is enough, either cut the spending and return to what our Forefathers intended, or else.
Erll, the or else is scaring the Hell out of them, and if they don't straighten up come 2012, they may see a new party take their place.

   Solar your not listening to me, thats the problem. The problem isnt that im not listening to you. I am a strong supporter of the teaparty.
I said if the a handful or the leaders give the impression they are all about the rich not paying more and ending all entitlements to release the rich of the burden..they will fail....and I stand by that. I didnt think as a republican for DECADES I had to toe the line, or agree with every single minute aspect of the parties will or be considered a mudwump.  I believe that I can say Corporations are not the good guys that some republicans want everyone to believe and trust me I will.
   They are the two things Ive said over and over..and they deeply upset a couple on this board when they read it...they go nuts its like I kicked them in the nuts or something...dont ask me to feel bad about stating what I believe...cuz I wont :)  I will not go along to just belong....If I disappoint you well were both going to have to live with that :)

Zip,
     Originally, "Mugwumps" were Republicans that did not agree with the bullroar, so they either went Independent or to the Democratic Party. That definition fits pretty closely to how you describe yourself. 
Mostly, I agree with you on many points. There is some difficulty focusing on what some of those points are because you present so much background I get confused as to what you actually want to say. For me, that comes across as  the later definition of "Mugwump", a fence sitter.
     All that is semantics, and no harm is meant.
     Please present your ideas in a more succinct or less ambiguous way.  I am just not as smart or skilled in these discussions as many others are here. You have interesting things to say and I don't want to waste your time on explaining them to me.

Quote from: Eyesabide on December 16, 2010, 06:26:51 AM
Zip,
     Originally, "Mugwumps" were Republicans that did not agree with the bullroar, so they either went Independent or to the Democratic Party. That definition fits pretty closely to how you describe yourself. 
Mostly, I agree with you on many points. There is some difficulty focusing on what some of those points are because you present so much background I get confused as to what you actually want to say. For me, that comes across as  the later definition of "Mugwump", a fence sitter.
     All that is semantics, and no harm is meant.
     Please present your ideas in a more succinct or less ambiguous way.  I am just not as smart or skilled in these discussions as many others are here. You have interesting things to say and I don't want to waste your time on explaining them to me.

My take is simple. Zip and I have disagreed on a lot of things, but after all the smoke clears, he and I are fairly well on the same page. The difference is I may be considered a Mugwump and if so, I will wear the badge proudly. I am not particularly a PUB any longer and haven't been a DIM in almost 50 years. Anyone that knows me, though, knows I am not a fence sitter. I believe in the Tea Party and will do so as long as it remains grass roots, down in the dirt, come waller down here with us in their thinking. I feel as Zip does about most corporatist, which in large part was the foundation of the old Whigs and later the Party of Lincoln. I am not opposed to wealth, as I would love to have considerably more myself, but am opposed to that wealth undercutting the foundations of the Republic.

I have no quarrel with who butt humps who, as long as it is in the privacy of ones home. Take it to the streets and it bothers me. I really don't care who puts what into their bodies, as long as they can and are willing to live with the consequences. Take it on the road and they can kiss their asses bye bye. I am simply a believer in the smallest, leanest, and most efficient government possible. Repeal:

FIAT MONEY

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913

The Fourteenth Amendment

The Sixteenth Amendment

The Seventeenth Amendment

Revisit:

Roe vs Wade

Brown vs Board of Education.

I believe we would solve a lot of our problems.

Quote from: zip on December 16, 2010, 04:22:38 AM
   Not a problem...I can handle it...acutally Ive always been at my best under pressure....

    Oh and btw your definitions  or the parties are just your opinion? right  arpad and we know opinions  are just like assholes right ? even dogs have one. I have one and I have my own opinions :)

In other words, either you didn't read what I wrote or you didn't understand it. As for opinions, they're like asses; everyone may have one but not all of them merit much attention.

Quote from: zip on December 16, 2010, 04:42:53 AM
       Someone needs to get this forum going ")...and someone needs to break up the ultra right wing circlejerkin that goes on here. lol...man up and start admitting that the republican party aint godly and the teaparty is going to fail bigtime if  every republican thats like me..and that id bet is a whopping 80% start getting the feeling that the teaparty leaderships sole goal is to assure the rich pay even less in taxs...and any and all entitlements are wiped out. Not going to work just like the dems socialism  crap wont work...

      I have a feeling some of you are going to be very mad at me before this is over...and I also have a feeling i wont give a fecal matter lol

Zip, it's not about the rich not paying taxes, not for me anyway. It's about telling the government to back off, how can we justify the government taking more and more taxes. I don't care who they're taking them from, if we don't do something about it and soon, this government will never balance a budget again. They will continue to take until there is nothing left to take. Just look at the last hundred years alone. Not just federal taxes either, look at local state and city taxes and fees. What ever happened to taxation with representation? I don't want entitlements wiped out, I want them to go to the people in need who they were intended for. How do we justify the government taking 55% of someones inherited wealth? Yes, we all need to contribute to the bascic needs of a community, and country. It's what they do with those contributions that concerns me.