Author Topic: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon  (Read 1546 times)

Offline Shooterman

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 11:41:29 AM »
The courts get to interpret the constitution.  That's what the constitution says they are for.  I'll trust them over the president, congress, local governments, or you in that regard.

Silly boy/girl. ( I am not trying to be disrespectful, but your profile doesn't state which ) May I suggest, as originally conceived by the framers of the Constitution and then by the states meeting in convention to ratify the document, federal courts were to assess cases arising under federal passed law, cases between states, and treaties. When a court gave an opinion in a case, the decision became the law of the case, and not, REPEAT NOT, the Law of The Land. Only Congress can pass laws pertaining to the federal realm only; the courts can not unless they are usurping the Congress's job. Not withstanding Justice John Marshall's usurpation of power, I would suggest that law is a nebulous thing as it may change daily depending on the court doing the interpretation.

May I also suggest that any court that usurps law by passing law/s is in direct contravention of the Constitution. Therefore, if I may humbly suggest that you are at a distinct disadvantage if you trust courts above the Law of The Land.

Links are available if you are interested, but somehow, I do not believe you will be. Liberals usually are not.

As to your original statement, please show that section that states the courts job is to interpret the Constitution. They are simply charged with interpreting a case in light of the constitutional precepts.

As an aside, I would suggest the most lowly of the citizens of the realm, at the time of the ratification of the compact that created the union, ( not nation state ) understood exactly the role the courts were to play in the government.
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Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 11:44:40 AM »
Gingrey has some real balls.  He's a district over from me, and his covers a lot of west and north west Georgia.  He even reps the famous require-carry Kennesaw (a suburb of Atlanta).  He isn't exactly in pro-gun control lib land, so this will be interesting.

I am surprised at Gingrey's position on this. As you indicated, Cobb County and surrounding areas are not exactly liberal bastions.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 11:49:03 AM »
I think the courts legislating from the bench is the problem.  The die hard gun rights person is not willing to give an inch because it will only lead to and inch and then a foot being taken down the road.  The liberal gun taking fool  looks at the 2nd amendment as a trivial inconvenience that needs to be made irrelevant.  The just make up what it meant and in the end would be happy if everyone who had a gun was a criminal.  Criminalizing marijuana only resulted in the prison business to boom and it is an easy matter to buy some in every city in America.   

We cannot stop millions of people crossing the boarder, tons and tons of drugs and lord knows what else comes across so they can do what they want because the black market will find itself with one more lucrative product.  I do not do drugs but if guns were impossible to get I would certainly find where they could be purchased off the record and I think anyone with a brain would do the same.

Why you need to have 10 or 20 shots in a clip to shoot targets has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.  The constitution does not say you can have a gun to shoot targets as long as you reload after the 10th shot.  When a politician says something so stupid they should be removed from office immediately.   

In a small town 20 shots in a clip is probably more than anyone would need in a crisis in that town.  But someone who lives in LA and had to face crowds like you saw in those riots, well 10 bullets is not nearly enough.   

I think a means of keeping it out of the hands of the wrong people is a good goal and I do not see that as an infringement of the constitution.  If that was the end of the road for the gun grabbers well I think even the NRA would agree quickly to setting something up.  Something has to be workable so that no gun is sold legally to someone who should not be trusted with a gun.  ID cards or background checks  sound reasonable and even at gun shows where running them would be to difficult you could require adequate ID and maybe a finger print scan so that the check could be done after the show.  Even under the current system fraud is possible so if you have enough information the wrong person might get it but within a day or two those who should not have been allowed to buy a gun can be located and the gun taken. 

But anyone who supports the 2nd amendment has to stop these stupid discussion about why you would use that gun for hunting.   Oh the answer is that the AR-15 is used for hunting in a lot of states.  Not in my state of PA but it is used to kill predators where quick shots are important at times and I would bet they are used for prairie dogs too.  So yes they are used to hunt. 
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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 11:53:41 AM »
Yup you are correct. I'm also a district over from, i'm in the 13 district of Power Springs. this should be interesting.

I love that area.  I don't love David Scott, but I love Powder Springs....
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Online taxed

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 11:57:53 AM »
I am surprised at Gingrey's position on this. As you indicated, Cobb County and surrounding areas are not exactly liberal bastions.

I am too...  Heritage Action Scorecard gives him an 85%, and he is in such a conservative area (overall).
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 11:58:10 AM »
Back, Young Grasshopper, to the comment at hand. I am and consider myself a sentient, thoughtful, law abiding citizen. I have no more neuroses that the average human being ( even consider myself about the average in that respect ) and outside of a traffic ticket or two, have not stepped outside the law. Why in hell should I ever be content with having to pass a background check. What magical moment in time in my 77 years, determines my ability to keep and bear arms. My Constitution, hopefully the same one ever one else uses, places not one iota of restriction on me or anyone else in fulfilling my duty as a citizen to keep and bear arms.

Call me a dinosaur, out of touch with reality, somewhat nutty, or any other pejorative you care to- it makes not one bit of difference to me. I grew up when people were considered fully capable of going to a sporting goods store, hardware store, Sears Catalog, or and other catalog, and picking out a weapon he/she wanted, paying the hard earned coins for it, and going on about their business. Any lowlife no count sumbich that would have suggested background checks to buy firearms would have had more ex servicemen that had seen death and destruction up close, ready to string their asses up to a tree, than they could have said grace over.

The world quit being a safe place when dipshit gun grabbers came on the scene.
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Offline Bronx

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »
I love that area.  I don't love David Scott, but I love Powder Springs....

I'm in the process of looking for a real "Tea Party" to get involved in. If you can head me in the right direction that would be great if not maybe one day with can have a cup of coffee together.
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 12:28:41 PM »
I think the courts legislating from the bench is the problem.  The die hard gun rights person is not willing to give an inch because it will only lead to and inch and then a foot being taken down the road.  The liberal gun taking fool  looks at the 2nd amendment as a trivial inconvenience that needs to be made irrelevant.  The just make up what it meant and in the end would be happy if everyone who had a gun was a criminal.  Criminalizing marijuana only resulted in the prison business to boom and it is an easy matter to buy some in every city in America.   

We cannot stop millions of people crossing the boarder, tons and tons of drugs and lord knows what else comes across so they can do what they want because the black market will find itself with one more lucrative product.  I do not do drugs but if guns were impossible to get I would certainly find where they could be purchased off the record and I think anyone with a brain would do the same.

Why you need to have 10 or 20 shots in a clip to shoot targets has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.  The constitution does not say you can have a gun to shoot targets as long as you reload after the 10th shot.  When a politician says something so stupid they should be removed from office immediately.   

In a small town 20 shots in a clip is probably more than anyone would need in a crisis in that town.  But someone who lives in LA and had to face crowds like you saw in those riots, well 10 bullets is not nearly enough.   

I think a means of keeping it out of the hands of the wrong people is a good goal and I do not see that as an infringement of the constitution.  If that was the end of the road for the gun grabbers well I think even the NRA would agree quickly to setting something up.  Something has to be workable so that no gun is sold legally to someone who should not be trusted with a gun.  ID cards or background checks  sound reasonable and even at gun shows where running them would be to difficult you could require adequate ID and maybe a finger print scan so that the check could be done after the show.  Even under the current system fraud is possible so if you have enough information the wrong person might get it but within a day or two those who should not have been allowed to buy a gun can be located and the gun taken. 

But anyone who supports the 2nd amendment has to stop these stupid discussion about why you would use that gun for hunting.   Oh the answer is that the AR-15 is used for hunting in a lot of states.  Not in my state of PA but it is used to kill predators where quick shots are important at times and I would bet they are used for prairie dogs too.  So yes they are used to hunt.

Are you saying a little infringement of the Constitution is okay? A small infringement of the Second Amendment is okay? Can one ever be just a little bit pregnant?

Or is it that we are willing to play semantics with 'shall not be infringed'? Never, never, never, compromise a right that existed before the Constitution.
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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 12:35:29 PM »
I'm in the process of looking for a real "Tea Party" to get involved in. If you can head me in the right direction that would be great if not maybe one day with can have a cup of coffee together.

I have a few thoughts on that.  I'd like to figure out how to fix the voting system and fight that battle. 

I'm going to be travelling and busy for a lot of 2013, but at the end, let's do that.  I have a lot of connections and we can see what we can put together and get going.  I think most of the country is conservative/right of center, but the voting system is stacked against us.  Let's fix that.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 01:34:16 PM »
Are you saying a little infringement of the Constitution is okay? A small infringement of the Second Amendment is okay? Can one ever be just a little bit pregnant?

Or is it that we are willing to play semantics with 'shall not be infringed'? Never, never, never, compromise a right that existed before the Constitution.

First off I am not a constitutional scholar.  But, we already have restrictions and bans on fully automatic guns.  These guns are the very same guns that a soldier would typically carry into war.  So strictly following the constitution seems to suggest that those restrictions and bans are Unconstitutional.  If that is true I have no problem making them legal.   

Secondly,  We already do not allow felons to own or even posses guns.  I assume that is within the realm of the constitution.  So the dilemma is how do we not infringe on the rights of those who are legally allowed to possess a gun while making sure that those who cannot have a gun are not able to get a gun in a legal manner. 

I think if you go to the extreme then you probably should not even be taxed on the purchase of the gun because that seems to me, infringes on my ability to buy a gun.  Perhaps I am not cleaver enough to figure out how to know when a person is not able to legally purchase a gun without some kind of check or ID.  If you or someone can explain to me how a gun dealer can know that the person before them is a felon I will gladly say that is the way to go.  I think if the Libs were reasonable and they are not,  they would propose a way to insure only those who could legally buy a gun are able to with the followup that once a person is cleared to buy a gun all documentation or registration of that gun is deleted or destroyed. 

Not on a constitutional level I am sure, but I have some positive views on having all guns registered.  However,  at the same time I do not trust that those in power now or in the future would not use that registration against those who own those guns.  I am not sure our founders would be all that shocked at being able to know who last owned a gun that was found or recovered at a crime scene.  I am sure that in their day they would not even consider using that list to go and take guns off of law abiding citizens. 

But they did have the foresight to know that in the future that those in power would seek to remove guns from its citizens so that it could greatly increase the chance that they will be able to stay in power.  I think Obama and the Dem's are clearly demonstrating how brilliant their understanding of governments was.  As I do learn more about our constitution and the founders I am more and more convinced that they were genius in its design.  Unfortunately those who followed did not have such admiration at how it diminished their powers because WE the People had rights. 

With that I stand a aside as most of the discussion going on about recent events is focused on the gun and not on the maniacs that actually did the act.  I am so convinced that we are losing this country that the first left handed AR-15 I see for sale will be sold to me.  I joined the NRA and I will back anything that the tea party pushes.   We need to take this country back and while I am old I think that unless a stand is made very very soon We the People will be faced with the very same problem that our founders faced. 

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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 02:10:03 PM »
First off I am not a constitutional scholar.  But, we already have restrictions and bans on fully automatic guns.  These guns are the very same guns that a soldier would typically carry into war.  So strictly following the constitution seems to suggest that those restrictions and bans are Unconstitutional.  If that is true I have no problem making them legal.   

Nor do I. The Act of 1934, which outlawed the everyday possession of automatic weapons and sawed off shotguns, was primarily an outgrowth of the gangsters possessing and using those weapons during prohibition. I also believe they should be legal for anyone to have.

Quote
Secondly,  We already do not allow felons to own or even posses guns.  I assume that is within the realm of the constitution.

I am not convinced it is. Admittedly my thinking is different from most folks, but as more and more acts have been criminalized, I foresee the day when only people with very spotless records ( very small children ) will be eligible to own a firearm. If a criminal, ex or active, is too violent to be trusted with a firearm, lock the sumbich away for life or smoke him. If he is eligible to walk the streets, he should be able to defend himself and/or his loved ones.

Quote
So the dilemma is how do we not infringe on the rights of those who are legally allowed to possess a gun while making sure that those who cannot have a gun are not able to get a gun in a legal manner. 

Short of some form of gun control, the infringement on a right that superseded the Constitution, I see none. Better a thousand ex-felons be armed that one law abiding citizen be unable to keep and bear.

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I think if you go to the extreme then you probably should not even be taxed on the purchase of the gun because that seems to me, infringes on my ability to buy a gun.

Per chance you are absolutely correct. 

Quote
Perhaps I am not cleaver enough to figure out how to know when a person is not able to legally purchase a gun without some kind of check or ID.  If you or someone can explain to me how a gun dealer can know that the person before them is a felon I will gladly say that is the way to go.  I think if the Libs were reasonable and they are not,  they would propose a way to insure only those who could legally buy a gun are able to with the followup that once a person is cleared to buy a gun all documentation or registration of that gun is deleted or destroyed. 

Is there a difference, outside of the background check, between buying a firearm from a license dealer or buying one from an everyday citizen? If I have malice in my heart, what difference will it make? Even if I can not 'legally' buy a firearm, I can still acquire one if I want it badly enough.



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Offline AndyJackson

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 02:52:35 PM »
You know that the small gun control measures being shopped are only a precursor to gun confiscation and criminalization for all guns, all people.

If you like to be lied to by leftists, then go right ahead.  Not me.

May as well suffer the idiotic slings and arrows of the retarded left, like "you hate children and want them to be slaughtered"...and just tell them to FOAD on each and every increment they bring.

They lie throughout every gun control, immigration, tax-spending debate.  Be fooolish and accept their overtures on your own time.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Even So Called Conservatives Are Jumping on The Gun Control Bandwagon
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 03:12:05 PM »
You know that the small gun control measures being shopped are only a precursor to gun confiscation and criminalization for all guns, all people.

If you like to be lied to by leftists, then go right ahead.  Not me.

May as well suffer the idiotic slings and arrows of the retarded left, like "you hate children and want them to be slaughtered"...and just tell them to FOAD on each and every increment they bring.

They lie throughout every gun control, immigration, tax-spending debate.  Be fooolish and accept their overtures on your own time.

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