The year, 2000, my family and I escaped the high cost of living, high taxes of Wisconsin for Virginia.
Wisconsin Born,
High taxes fled;
and now I'll die,
Virginia dead.
Virginia is just plain cheaper to live and earn a living in. Back in 2000, we immediately noticed:
10 cents a KWH for electricity, vs 5.5 cents per KWH in Virginia - no wonder why so many people are 100% electric.
No wonder why energy conservation, super insulating and LP gas is so popular in Wisconsin - it's called survival.
Virginia has reasonable gun laws, open carry is LEGAL, concealed carry is greatly simplified, and hassle free. Thank you NRA.
Virginians, generally speaking, hold to doctrine of "The right to be left alone". Outsiders are unwelcome, until you prove you're NOT of the liberal/progressive mind-set. Even political commercials will emphasize "Virginian Values" - one said, "He's not from around here..."
Private property rights, self-reliance, wariness of government intrusion, and strong local government, apart from regional and state interference. Many council meetings open with a word-of-prayer. I haven't heard of a single person converting from whatever to Christianity. Nor is Virginia known as the birthplace of the 'Freedom from Religion Foundation', or any of the other far left radical ideas.
Yeah... those Virginians are real dangerous rebels.
-----------------------
In just 17 years, of infiltration from New Jersey, New York mindset areas, this Commonwealth is replacing the most appealing aspects with the most appalling. Smooth talking politicians have brought us more & more of the big city problems (and solutions, bigger government, higher taxes).
Gangs have increased, drugs, robbery, illegals - all the crap from Liberal political think is slowly changing what was once wonderful to dreadful. I read awhile back, there is a community of radical Islamic, anti-Americans who moved into the Redhouse, VA area. That's really close to me, it's about as rural as it gets, farm after farm - why did they pick this area? Heck, it useto be we looked at the Amish as a potential blight, horse crap on the roads, and selling old stuff at exorbitant prices - but, Islamic Radicals...? Who welcomed them to Virginia? Terry McAwful & Nordan (also the Dem candidate for Governor) Tim Kaine... Mark Warner... slowly changing the Commonwealth.
It's definitely not a matter of making people feel "welcome" in Virginia - but, making Liberty Loving Conservatives unwelcome.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 13, 2017, 10:39:28 AM
The year, 2000, my family and I escaped the high cost of living, high taxes of Wisconsin for Virginia.
Wisconsin Born,
High taxes fled;
and now I'll die,
Virginia dead.
Virginia is just plain cheaper to live and earn a living in. Back in 2000, we immediately noticed:
10 cents a KWH for electricity, vs 5.5 cents per KWH in Virginia - no wonder why so many people are 100% electric.
No wonder why energy conservation, super insulating and LP gas is so popular in Wisconsin - it's called survival.
Virginia has reasonable gun laws, open carry is LEGAL, concealed carry is greatly simplified, and hassle free. Thank you NRA.
Virginians, generally speaking, hold to doctrine of "The right to be left alone". Outsiders are unwelcome, until you prove you're NOT of the liberal/progressive mind-set. Even political commercials will emphasize "Virginian Values" - one said, "He's not from around here..."
Private property rights, self-reliance, wariness of government intrusion, and strong local government, apart from regional and state interference. Many council meetings open with a word-of-prayer. I haven't heard of a single person converting from whatever to Christianity. Nor is Virginia known as the birthplace of the 'Freedom from Religion Foundation', or any of the other far left radical ideas.
Yeah... those Virginians are real dangerous rebels.
-----------------------
In just 17 years, of infiltration from New Jersey, New York mindset areas, this Commonwealth is replacing the most appealing aspects with the most appalling. Smooth talking politicians have brought us more & more of the big city problems (and solutions, bigger government, higher taxes).
Gangs have increased, drugs, robbery, illegals - all the crap from Liberal political think is slowly changing what was once wonderful to dreadful. I read awhile back, there is a community of radical Islamic, anti-Americans who moved into the Redhouse, VA area. That's really close to me, it's about as rural as it gets, farm after farm - why did they pick this area? Heck, it useto be we looked at the Amish as a potential blight, horse crap on the roads, and selling old stuff at exorbitant prices - but, Islamic Radicals...? Who welcomed them to Virginia? Terry McAwful & Nordan (also the Dem candidate for Governor) Tim Kaine... Mark Warner... slowly changing the Commonwealth.
It's definitely not a matter of making people feel "welcome" in Virginia - but, making Liberty Loving Conservatives unwelcome.
The toilet overflowed out of DC into northern VA.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 13, 2017, 11:20:25 AM
The toilet overflowed out of DC into northern VA.
"The toilet overflowed out of DC into" all areas of the world.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 13, 2017, 11:20:25 AM
The toilet overflowed out of DC into northern VA.
Sorry it wasn't DC.... it was the third world, I recall the mid 70's thru early 80's when Centerville/Manassas was a backwater where we used to rabbit hunt, metal detect in the fields for civil war artifacts. There was a housing/building boom in the late 80's that transformed the place, now you see gang signs on the Bowling alley and on every 7-11. Fat Mexican women drive SUV's full of screaming kids and cut you off at every turn and GRIDLOCK the traffic. Pupuseria's are in every strip mall along with western unions advertising in Spanish cheap rates on money transfers to Mexico and Guatemala. Just about every apartment complex and townhouse complex looks like some place in South America where English is rarely spoken or understood. Don't go into Wal Mart and ask where anything is unless you can speak and understand spanish. The latest horror is a huge mosque right next to the hallowed Manassas battle fields.
I am soooooooo glad I moved out of that area in the late 90's.....my Son still stays despite my urging him to sell his business and relocate out in the Shennandoah valley.
Good OP Hoofer.
You spurred a question under my saddle Hoof.
What if the Founders had made an exception where city size had its limits in representation?
It's just an open ended thought, good or bad, but had they seen the future of leftist destruction via huge metropolises, might they have created a different formula for our Constitution and how people are represented?
Yeah, I know States Rights, but regardless, the left found a work around for abuse.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 13, 2017, 12:23:08 PM
Sorry it wasn't DC.... it was the third world, I recall the mid 70's thru early 80's when Centerville/Manassas was a backwater where we used to rabbit hunt, metal detect in the fields for civil war artifacts. There was a housing/building boom in the late 80's that transformed the place, now you see gang signs on the Bowling alley and on every 7-11. Fat Mexican women drive SUV's full of screaming kids and cut you off at every turn and GRIDLOCK the traffic. Pupuseria's are in every strip mall along with western unions advertising in Spanish cheap rates on money transfers to Mexico and Guatemala. Just about every apartment complex and townhouse complex looks like some place in South America where English is rarely spoken or understood. Don't go into Wal Mart and ask where anything is unless you can speak and understand spanish. The latest horror is a huge mosque right next to the hallowed Manassas battle fields.
I am soooooooo glad I moved out of that area in the late 90's.....my Son still stays despite my urging him to sell his business and relocate out in the Shennandoah valley.
Can you imagine high speed rail stretching from Arlington to Winchester, Charlottesville - through those rural areas?
...as long as there are never any stops between them.... LOL... it might be OK!
The south is still a decent place to live, but it's changing way too fast for me, thanks to the New Jersey liberals moving in & bringing their liberal politics and big-city expectations with them (ie., sewer, water, garbage removal, fire depts, police, snow removal, sidewalks, bike trails, flowers in the medians, etc.) Most of us, actually enjoy looking at the rugged countryside, flowering weeds, Eastern Wild Turkeys scurrying about, etc. These city-bred idiots want to mow & pave hiking & bike trails - with no idea what a pristine environment actually looks like!
Worst of all, the locals, who've lived here for 4-5 generations, are being forced out by higher and higher taxes, the NJ folks demand more services, and taxes pay for them. I live in a shack. My house looks just like 90% of the other houses for miles and miles around. But, you can spot the NJ houses, they have perfectly manicured lawns, the house has a distinctive "north eastern look", paved driveway and they plant ornamentals that have no business in this part of the state. Cactus? Bamboo? Are they nuts??? Who are they trying to impress?
Why not just post a sign by the road, "
I'm rich and own no guns, come and rob me - I'm a Liberal!" Problem is, these people vote.
When one of my neighbors called the county supervisor and complained because another guy had a couple of cars up on blocks... :rolleyes: I asked him what the heck he was doing?!?!? Are you gonna complain about mosquitoes and demand county spraying next? If I clear cut my trees, am I gonna get a nasty note about the diminished value of your house because of the view? He moved from Norfolk, VA suburb - he's still adjusting... as we say, you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the thumb out of the ass of a liberal. :blushing:
One of my neighbors has central wood heat. A wood stove in the middle of his single story house, about the size of a garage - he built it himself, with his bride, half a century ago. The entire property and house is valued at $20k... the acreage is worth more than the building. He pulled up my driveway one day, to watch me plow. So, when I got back to where he was, I asked if he needed help. "Nope, it's just nice to see someone actually working a field with a tractor, instead of mowing grass." I did some backhoe work for him a little later, for nothing, 'cause I knew he didn't have any money to spare. He also had a multi-acre garden, his wife, of 50+ yrs, canned until her health started to fail. When she died, he came over and cried and cried, so did I. I offered to let him try out the tractor, but when he realized there was no stick-shift, he refused - didn't want to mess with hydro-static drive, too confusing.
I don't know how this guy is surviving at near 80yrs, never having a steady income. But, he's the kind of guy who's gonna get squeezed out and have nowhere to go. I didn't say what color his skin is, he's just like I am, an American who loves this country & still believes in working an honest day for honest pay. When he passes away, we will have lost a great man, and honest man, untainted by the Socialist Schools of America. I'll miss him dearly.
Some people make our area appealing. Liberals just make it appalling. They'd look at this old guy and start throwing money at him, depriving him of his pride and self-worth, "I grew this, I built this, my wife and I cleared this land, we raised 4 kids in this 400squ ft house, we've lived comfortably - with nobody's help, though we helped a few along the way." Jimmy Carter and Habitat would swoop down on this guy, tear down his old shack and build something he'd have no 'personal stake' in. Strip him of the thing he could do for himself, and abandon him.
Wifey met a lady at the library, she was upset because the Motor Vehicle Department was closing, and she'd have to drive across 2 counties to get to the city where she didn't know anyone. Our Democrat Senator did that, closed VDOT and Interstate Rest Stops because he couldn't get a huge tax increase. This lady, well into her 60's, had only been to the next county to visit a friend. Just never had any interest in going more than 30 miles from home. Laugh if you want, but keep in mind, these appalling Democrats would rather these independent people be shoved onto welfare and become wards of the state than make-it-on-their-own.
I live in an area where hitch-hikers are safe to give a ride to... most of the time. Last 2 guys I picked up, it was almost 90 degrees, humid, and I drove them more than a dozen miles to their destination. They were thankful for the lift & bottles of water, air conditioning, but either of them could have walked home without a lift. I saw them walking and asked if they wanted a ride, 'cause it was too hot outside. The last guy, refused at first, then when I offered him a bottle of water, he accepted. There's nothing *wrong* with these guys, we all just live life a little s-l-o-w-e-r than Northern Virginians, and actually like it that way. They are self-reliant, but might accept help if there no strings attached.
Funny thing, we don't live around a bunch of complainers & whiners. Those habitually whining folks usually come from the city... and are liberals. Southern Virginia is still a good place to live, for now, but, as the northern whiners keep descending upon us, we might someday... pack up and move way up north. They must be clearing out of there, might be worth looking into. Imagine no Liberals.
Quote from: Solar on August 13, 2017, 12:36:52 PM
Good OP Hoofer.
You spurred a question under my saddle Hoof.
What if the Founders had made an exception where city size had its limits in representation?
It's just an open ended thought, good or bad, but had they seen the future of leftist destruction via huge metropolises, might they have created a different formula for our Constitution and how people are represented?
Yeah, I know States Rights, but regardless, the left found a work around for abuse.
Thoughts?
Yeah, voting rights need to be tied to land ownership. Minimum of a 1/16th of an acre (or big enough to build a house) to qualify for each vote. Dead serious - if we really want to preserve the right to own property in America, make it a requirement.
Conversely, set the limit at 100 acres, per person per vote. If a guy owns 1000 acres, let him cast one vote, but be allowed to 'sell voting rights' to 9 others who have no vote. That still preserves property rights, you want to vote, there is a price to pay. Voting is not a right, like driving is not a right.
If I were "King" - I'd require ever voting person own property and a working gun. Preserve those rights by exercising them.
Quote from: Solar on August 13, 2017, 12:36:52 PM
Good OP Hoofer.
You spurred a question under my saddle Hoof.
What if the Founders had made an exception where city size had its limits in representation?
It's just an open ended thought, good or bad, but had they seen the future of leftist destruction via huge metropolises, might they have created a different formula for our Constitution and how people are represented?
Yeah, I know States Rights, but regardless, the left found a work around for abuse.
Thoughts?
Yep - I like the way you think Solar. Anytime that a group acquires too much power or representation someone will eventually abuse it. The key theme of the constitution was checks-and-balances to mitigate out-of-control power at the cost of productive benevolence being able to make sweeping changes. So limiting the power of cities (an ambiguous but approachable idea) as well as limitations on other similar powers (large media outlets) needs a governor (like the mechanical kind ... regulator) ... a method that automatically limits extent of influence.
Good thought! Trump should put someone on constructing draft amendments.
I have been in VA all my life and it sure has changed. Might never again see a senator or Gov as a republican.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 14, 2017, 12:33:52 PM
Can you imagine high speed rail stretching from Arlington to Winchester, Charlottesville - through those rural areas?
...as long as there are never any stops between them.... LOL... it might be OK!
The south is still a decent place to live, but it's changing way too fast for me, thanks to the New Jersey liberals moving in & bringing their liberal politics and big-city expectations with them (ie., sewer, water, garbage removal, fire depts, police, snow removal, sidewalks, bike trails, flowers in the medians, etc.) Most of us, actually enjoy looking at the rugged countryside, flowering weeds, Eastern Wild Turkeys scurrying about, etc. These city-bred idiots want to mow & pave hiking & bike trails - with no idea what a pristine environment actually looks like!
Worst of all, the locals, who've lived here for 4-5 generations, are being forced out by higher and higher taxes, the NJ folks demand more services, and taxes pay for them. I live in a shack. My house looks just like 90% of the other houses for miles and miles around. But, you can spot the NJ houses, they have perfectly manicured lawns, the house has a distinctive "north eastern look", paved driveway and they plant ornamentals that have no business in this part of the state. Cactus? Bamboo? Are they nuts??? Who are they trying to impress?
Why not just post a sign by the road, "I'm rich and own no guns, come and rob me - I'm a Liberal!" Problem is, these people vote.
When one of my neighbors called the county supervisor and complained because another guy had a couple of cars up on blocks... :rolleyes: I asked him what the heck he was doing?!?!? Are you gonna complain about mosquitoes and demand county spraying next? If I clear cut my trees, am I gonna get a nasty note about the diminished value of your house because of the view? He moved from Norfolk, VA suburb - he's still adjusting... as we say, you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the thumb out of the ass of a liberal. :blushing:
One of my neighbors has central wood heat. A wood stove in the middle of his single story house, about the size of a garage - he built it himself, with his bride, half a century ago. The entire property and house is valued at $20k... the acreage is worth more than the building. He pulled up my driveway one day, to watch me plow. So, when I got back to where he was, I asked if he needed help. "Nope, it's just nice to see someone actually working a field with a tractor, instead of mowing grass." I did some backhoe work for him a little later, for nothing, 'cause I knew he didn't have any money to spare. He also had a multi-acre garden, his wife, of 50+ yrs, canned until her health started to fail. When she died, he came over and cried and cried, so did I. I offered to let him try out the tractor, but when he realized there was no stick-shift, he refused - didn't want to mess with hydro-static drive, too confusing.
I don't know how this guy is surviving at near 80yrs, never having a steady income. But, he's the kind of guy who's gonna get squeezed out and have nowhere to go. I didn't say what color his skin is, he's just like I am, an American who loves this country & still believes in working an honest day for honest pay. When he passes away, we will have lost a great man, and honest man, untainted by the Socialist Schools of America. I'll miss him dearly.
Some people make our area appealing. Liberals just make it appalling. They'd look at this old guy and start throwing money at him, depriving him of his pride and self-worth, "I grew this, I built this, my wife and I cleared this land, we raised 4 kids in this 400squ ft house, we've lived comfortably - with nobody's help, though we helped a few along the way." Jimmy Carter and Habitat would swoop down on this guy, tear down his old shack and build something he'd have no 'personal stake' in. Strip him of the thing he could do for himself, and abandon him.
Wifey met a lady at the library, she was upset because the Motor Vehicle Department was closing, and she'd have to drive across 2 counties to get to the city where she didn't know anyone. Our Democrat Senator did that, closed VDOT and Interstate Rest Stops because he couldn't get a huge tax increase. This lady, well into her 60's, had only been to the next county to visit a friend. Just never had any interest in going more than 30 miles from home. Laugh if you want, but keep in mind, these appalling Democrats would rather these independent people be shoved onto welfare and become wards of the state than make-it-on-their-own.
I live in an area where hitch-hikers are safe to give a ride to... most of the time. Last 2 guys I picked up, it was almost 90 degrees, humid, and I drove them more than a dozen miles to their destination. They were thankful for the lift & bottles of water, air conditioning, but either of them could have walked home without a lift. I saw them walking and asked if they wanted a ride, 'cause it was too hot outside. The last guy, refused at first, then when I offered him a bottle of water, he accepted. There's nothing *wrong* with these guys, we all just live life a little s-l-o-w-e-r than Northern Virginians, and actually like it that way. They are self-reliant, but might accept help if there no strings attached.
Funny thing, we don't live around a bunch of complainers & whiners. Those habitually whining folks usually come from the city... and are liberals. Southern Virginia is still a good place to live, for now, but, as the northern whiners keep descending upon us, we might someday... pack up and move way up north. They must be clearing out of there, might be worth looking into. Imagine no Liberals.
Uhh - so long Hoofer. Can't believe I had to read ALL that. Kidding - I was beat up awhile back for some long pieces.
Seriously, I enjoyed every word of your story. Thanks for sharing! It's such a refreshing perspective. Certainly makes me long for a more simple life.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 14, 2017, 12:42:05 PM
Yeah, voting rights need to be tied to land ownership. Minimum of a 1/16th of an acre (or big enough to build a house) to qualify for each vote. Dead serious - if we really want to preserve the right to own property in America, make it a requirement.
Conversely, set the limit at 100 acres, per person per vote. If a guy owns 1000 acres, let him cast one vote, but be allowed to 'sell voting rights' to 9 others who have no vote. That still preserves property rights, you want to vote, there is a price to pay. Voting is not a right, like driving is not a right.
If I were "King" - I'd require ever voting person own property and a working gun. Preserve those rights by exercising them.
I tried to think a few moves ahead on this idea. I like the concept - seems to be the underlying theme is that those who work diligently enough to purchase a livable piece of property demonstrates responsibility and sense enough to elect reasonable representation for the right reasons.
The problem I run into is that I haven't come up with a definition that keeps it from being manipulated. Companies could buy up large amounts of land and own large voting blocks. If you disqualify companies, there would still be formation of voting blocks via other incentives. I think that legislating who can vote is just another form of government involvement. Better if everyone has an individual right as it stands but we should certainly require compliance with registration ahead of voting day. That's at least a modicum of responsibility.
IMO, the work needs to be done is strengthening the family with ethical values taught to our children. We can't even get national agreement on what a family is anymore. I'm still in disbelief. Let alone how to teach our kids about Godly principles, strong work ethic, and that "work that you love" is the best that this life has to offer (Ecclesiastes). But if real families formed (man and wife who respect each other, teach their kids to work and productively transition into the working world) then we would get responsible voters.
Ok - so here's a twist on your idea. To earn a vote you have to demonstrate that you have a strong work ethic and are tangibly contributing to society. It's more ambiguous but has a similar objective. I like the thought but still don't like the government involvement - it would also eventually be manipulated. Example of how it could go wrong: the Dims would qualify voters for the Obama fake jobs but disqualify those who work in white collar jobs because they are too privileged.
Maybe there is a way to work an amendment that mitigates the gaming. I like your idea!
Quote from: topside on August 15, 2017, 05:22:35 AM
Yep - I like the way you think Solar. Anytime that a group acquires too much power or representation someone will eventually abuse it. The key theme of the constitution was checks-and-balances to mitigate out-of-control power at the cost of productive benevolence being able to make sweeping changes. So limiting the power of cities (an ambiguous but approachable idea) as well as limitations on other similar powers (large media outlets) needs a governor (like the mechanical kind ... regulator) ... a method that automatically limits extent of influence.
Good thought! Trump should put someone on constructing draft amendments.
I'm just tossing out ideas, but when I see districts as small as Maxine Waters few mere blocks in a city housing a few thousand, yet to the north in the same state, we have tens of thousands being represented by one individual over hundreds of sq miles.
Ya know, I'm no Constituitional schollar, but I'm willing to bet they had early safeguards in place at one time, like those Hoofer recently mentioned, where only land holders were allowed the vote.
But when they removed these rights, they failed to incorporate other protections.
Quote from: Solar on August 15, 2017, 08:44:32 AM
I'm just tossing out ideas, but when I see districts as small as Maxine Waters few mere blocks in a city housing a few thousand, yet to the north in the same state, we have tens of thousands being represented by one individual over hundreds of sq miles.
Ya know, I'm no Constituitional schollar, but I'm willing to bet they had early safeguards in place at one time, like those Hoofer recently mentioned, where only land holders were allowed the vote.
But when they removed these rights, they failed to incorporate other protections.
If it came down to TAX Payers as the qualification to vote, we'd have every foreign entity voting. So that doesn't work, unless it's qualified with American Citizen. I really like the Land Owner idea, coupled with Tax Payer to thin it out a little more.
1. American Citizen
2. Land Owner of at least 1/16th of an acre or plot big enough to build a 1 bedroom house.
3. Pays income and/or property taxes.
How could that be gamed?
Quote from: Hoofer on August 15, 2017, 10:29:52 AM
If it came down to TAX Payers as the qualification to vote, we'd have every foreign entity voting. So that doesn't work, unless it's qualified with American Citizen. I really like the Land Owner idea, coupled with Tax Payer to thin it out a little more.
1. American Citizen
2. Land Owner of at least 1/16th of an acre or plot big enough to build a 1 bedroom house.
3. Pays income and/or property taxes.
How could that be gamed?
That's the way it used to be, that was the law of the land at one time.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 15, 2017, 10:29:52 AM
If it came down to TAX Payers as the qualification to vote, we'd have every foreign entity voting. So that doesn't work, unless it's qualified with American Citizen. I really like the Land Owner idea, coupled with Tax Payer to thin it out a little more.
1. American Citizen
2. Land Owner of at least 1/16th of an acre or plot big enough to build a 1 bedroom house.
3. Pays income and/or property taxes.
How could that be gamed?
Citizenship goes without saying - yes, it should be an absolute requirement. Also restricted to those who contribute - pay taxes. Well said. But the land ownership would be government manipulation and can be gamed and is a form of government control.
Let me give you three "games":
1. Financially successful companies "buy" votes by bribing the land owners to to support their cause.
2. Soros (or others) buy a sixteenth acre of cheap land for those with a bias toward his crony capitalist agenda - establishing millions of votes for his cause.
3. Groups form (like unions) that aid their members with getting jobs and buying plots of land in exchange for their undying support.
Any combination of these is likely to happen. I didn't even start on how Marxists could find ways to punish some landowners that are against them to reduce competitive votes. Basically, when the land becomes the voter currency then it will be used as a tool to manipulate the vote.
Quote from: topside on August 15, 2017, 01:07:50 PM
Citizenship goes without saying - yes, it should be an absolute requirement. Also restricted to those who contribute - pay taxes. Well said. But the land ownership would be government manipulation and can be gamed and is a form of government control.
Let me give you three "games":
1. Financially successful companies "buy" votes by bribing the land owners to to support their cause.
2. Soros (or others) buy a sixteenth acre of cheap land for those with a bias toward his crony capitalist agenda - establishing millions of votes for his cause.
3. Groups form (like unions) that aid their members with getting jobs and buying plots of land in exchange for their undying support.
Any combination of these is likely to happen. I didn't even start on how Marxists could find ways to punish some landowners that are against them to reduce competitive votes. Basically, when the land becomes the voter currency then it will be used as a tool to manipulate the vote.
A resident of the USA would stop some of that.
I don't want to suggest every 1/16th of an acre = one vote. Still one vote per citizen, whether Soros or whomever tried to game it, still just one vote per person applies nationwide. (I hate that idea, of national databases).
When Americans stop acting with moral responsibility, and lawlessness becomes the norm, the respect for law & justice gone - nothing but anarchy is left.
What you suggest is a Conservatives dream - would love to see it. The amendment would identify as you said and clearly state that it is one person, one vote who meets the criteria. That would support writing laws that punish those who try to game. About all you can do about the games is make them illegal and seek to punish those who violate.
Unfortunately, I don't think this amendment would have a chance. It would eliminate about 60% (my guess-timate) of the current voters. The libs heads would pop off and no Dim would support it - nothing new. It would be called racist, extremest - every damaging intonation possible ... nothing new again. The RINOs would cower - nothing new there either.
Great thought Hoofer. However, I'm guessing you don't think it would have a chance right now either. Or do you? Give me some hope!
Maybe if Solar's 2018 sweep comes to be - then we might have the votes for such an amendment.
Quote from: Solar on August 13, 2017, 12:36:52 PM
Good OP Hoofer.
You spurred a question under my saddle Hoof.
What if the Founders had made an exception where city size had its limits in representation?
It's just an open ended thought, good or bad, but had they seen the future of leftist destruction via huge metropolises, might they have created a different formula for our Constitution and how people are represented?
Yeah, I know States Rights, but regardless, the left found a work around for abuse.
Thoughts?
The Electoral College concept is one of those GREAT IDEAS to give the states a little better equal representation. Where the idea came from, don't know, but it's fascinating to me. Same with 2 houses, one from the people (house of representatives) and one from the state (senate) - tremendous system when it's left alone to operate as intended.
Wisconsin & Virginia both elect Senators based on the popular vote... which comes from the large population areas (WI has Madison & Milwaukee; Virginia has Arlington & Richmond). Curiously, those large population areas are also where property ownership is lowest.
Just a random thought... Is Glenn Beck an idiot?Each state only gets 2 Senators, but since the Representatives is population based, and the districts are gerrymandered by the state houses, not the Feds.... hmmm.... why not just overlay the state with a grid map, and break down the districts per land area? I guess it'd be up to the individual state. On the Federal level, with 2 Senators per state, isn't that what in effect is happening?
Quote from: Hoofer on August 16, 2017, 06:14:56 AM
The Electoral College concept is one of those GREAT IDEAS to give the states a little better equal representation. Where the idea came from, don't know, but it's fascinating to me. Same with 2 houses, one from the people (house of representatives) and one from the state (senate) - tremendous system when it's left alone to operate as intended.
Wisconsin & Virginia both elect Senators based on the popular vote... which comes from the large population areas (WI has Madison & Milwaukee; Virginia has Arlington & Richmond). Curiously, those large population areas are also where property ownership is lowest.
Just a random thought... Is Glenn Beck an idiot?
Each state only gets 2 Senators, but since the Representatives is population based, and the districts are gerrymandered by the state houses, not the Feds.... hmmm.... why not just overlay the state with a grid map, and break down the districts per land area? I guess it'd be up to the individual state. On the Federal level, with 2 Senators per state, isn't that what in effect is happening?
That's always been the way I saw it, because allowing states to set Representation via boundary lines of populated areas, has given leftists, (nonland owners) a bigger voice than deserved.
Just look at Calif, the Bay Area and La, literally trounces the voice of the majority landholders in the state, the actual taxpayers.
Quote from: topside on August 16, 2017, 05:45:20 AM
What you suggest is a Conservatives dream - would love to see it. The amendment would identify as you said and clearly state that it is one person, one vote who meets the criteria. That would support writing laws that punish those who try to game. About all you can do about the games is make them illegal and seek to punish those who violate.
Unfortunately, I don't think this amendment would have a chance. It would eliminate about 60% (my guess-timate) of the current voters. The libs heads would pop off and no Dim would support it - nothing new. It would be called racist, extremest - every damaging intonation possible ... nothing new again. The RINOs would cower - nothing new there either.
Great thought Hoofer. However, I'm guessing you don't think it would have a chance right now either. Or do you? Give me some hope!
Maybe if Solar's 2018 sweep comes to be - then we might have the votes for such an amendment.
It's not mine, I merely have my thumb on the pulse of the nation.
Keep in mind, McStain is just one RINO in a long list of scum about to meet their angry electorate.
Poll: McCain More Popular Among Democrats Than RepublicansAccording to the latest Gallup poll, Senator John McCain's (R-AZ) favorability among Democratic voters has skyrocketed since the last time the poll was conducted in 2015.
In 2015, McCain's favorability among Democrats stood at 49%. Two years later — and immediately following the Senator's vote against the Obamacare repeal, as well as his diagnosis of brain cancer — his favorability has jumped to 71%.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimg_7246.jpg&hash=305d30fb5983d32399b75da1cfa1df90d925ff24)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/215897/mccain-favorability-healthcare-vote.aspx
Quote from: Solar on August 16, 2017, 06:21:58 AM
That's always been the way I saw it, because allowing states to set Representation via boundary lines of populated areas, has given leftists, (nonland owners) a bigger voice than deserved.
Just look at Calif, the Bay Area and La, literally trounces the voice of the majority landholders in the state, the actual taxpayers.
"Each representative district shall be within 1% of equal land mass." - there, that's what I wanted to say. It can be done at the state level. Everyone still gets represented, with the state as a whole better represented.
Imagine for a second, the politicians bickering because they would have to campaign across the entire state instead of a couple of cities!
Newspapers and local TV stations would definitely benefit from the localized advertising.
This is what years of craziness leads to.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebullelephant.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2FVirginia-Congressional-Districts.jpg&hash=65e44e4a9dd1eb825a0bc0aaf174673d7a880045)
I've often wondered if some of those districts cut properties in half, maybe even a house or two - like a family we knew back in WI, when they expanded their house, it was into the next county! "What county do you live in? We sleep & shower in Iowa, eat, crap & watch TV in Dane county." Because Dane Co. was shotgun-only deer hunting, they hunted exclusively in Iowa Co., where they could use anything to hunt deer.
Quote from: Solar on August 16, 2017, 06:57:54 AM
It's not mine, I merely have my thumb on the pulse of the nation.
Keep in mind, McStain is just one RINO in a long list of scum about to meet their angry electorate.
Poll: McCain More Popular Among Democrats Than Republicans
According to the latest Gallup poll, Senator John McCain's (R-AZ) favorability among Democratic voters has skyrocketed since the last time the poll was conducted in 2015.
In 2015, McCain's favorability among Democrats stood at 49%. Two years later — and immediately following the Senator's vote against the Obamacare repeal, as well as his diagnosis of brain cancer — his favorability has jumped to 71%.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimg_7246.jpg&hash=305d30fb5983d32399b75da1cfa1df90d925ff24)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/215897/mccain-favorability-healthcare-vote.aspx
Not really surprising democrats like McCain more than republicans do.