Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM

Title: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: taxed on July 31, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

Why?  He can attack conservatives just fine as a Republican.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on July 31, 2017, 03:20:54 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

Trump would be better suited in attacking leftists in his own party, giving strength to those that support him those that despise the gop'E.
An Independent is a man without a home or allies and most important, a man without the backing of the party's purse come reelection.
You really should think these things through.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on July 31, 2017, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

Isn't that what he's doing now?  He's attacking whom he needs to attack just fine without switching parties.  What advantage do you think he'd have as an Independent?? 
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Hoofer on July 31, 2017, 05:23:58 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

Did you just declare political incompetence....?     

I'll be sure to send those requests for Democrat help your way, they're always looking for  stupid   dumb   hair-brained   wild-ass   fresh ideas.   (Grammar corrector must be a Democrat too!)    You could be a big hit at parties too!   

Oh, wait, you must have worked for Debbie Whass-er-name-shultz, right?

Are you high?    Thought I'd ask, man, that must have taken several bowls to come up wit that crap...
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: supsalemgr on August 01, 2017, 04:31:07 AM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

That would be a dead end street. He does need the organization of an established party. He can still call out leftists within the party.
.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: supsalemgr on August 01, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 01, 2017, 04:31:07 AM
That would be a dead end street. He does need the organization of an established party. He can still call out leftists within the party.
.

Along these same lines, it seems Rush has been reading this forum. He is 100% aligned with us that there is not a dime's difference between democrats and GOPe. Today, he spent a good bit of time on this.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Possum on August 01, 2017, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 01, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
Along these same lines, it seems Rush has been reading this forum. He is 100% aligned with us that there is not a dime's difference between democrats and GOPe. Today, he spent a good bit of time on this.
I would listen to Rush more if he would label the problem as there are not enough conservatives in our government. I wish Trump would realize the same thing.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Walter Josh on August 01, 2017, 01:43:15 PM
Observations and reflections.
After an severe Russian military defeat, Talleyrand observed that:
"It was far worse than a catastrophe; it was a mistake that great nations cannot make and remain great."
Currently, North Korea is on the boil, China is agitated plus Japan and South Korea are alarmed.
Russia appears resurgent in the Middle East while France, Germany and the UK sound estranged and indifferent.
Domestically, Obamacare repeal was scuttled by Republicans.
Given the hostility within the Congress what is the likelihood of immigration, regulatory and tax reform;
as well as the rest of the agenda of change ???
Trump's persona of bluster and bombast has been on daily display since January.
Is he our mistake?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 01, 2017, 01:58:40 PM
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 01, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
Along these same lines, it seems Rush has been reading this forum. He is 100% aligned with us that there is not a dime's difference between democrats and GOPe. Today, he spent a good bit of time on this.
Proof Rush killed off the majority of his listenership when he turned on Cruz. Rush also admitted he never claimed to be a Conservative.
Of course he's not, he's always been Ailes mouthpiece for the Establishment, but now that Ailes is out, Rush is out there all alone and trying to regain a bit of credibility.
Fuck em, he stabbed us in the back!
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: walkstall on August 01, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 01, 2017, 01:43:15 PM
Observations and reflections.
After an severe Russian military defeat, Talleyrand observed that:
"It was far worse than a catastrophe; it was a mistake that great nations cannot make and remain great."
Currently, North Korea is on the boil, China is agitated plus Japan and South Korea are alarmed.
Russia appears resurgent in the Middle East while France, Germany and the UK sound estranged and indifferent.
Domestically, Obamacare repeal was scuttled by Republicans.
Given the hostility within the Congress what is the likelihood of immigration, regulatory and tax reform;
as well as the rest of the agenda of change ???
Trump's persona of bluster and bombast has been on daily display since January.
Is he our mistake?

Your new...
You should only cover 1 or 2 thing in a post.   


Hmmm...   
QuoteIs he our mistake?

I would say he is the MSM mistake along with the crossover voters. 
Along with the GOP that put up all the people running. 

I for one voted for Ted Cruz.   I must say Trump is doing a lot more then I gave him credit for being a RINO. 
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 01, 2017, 02:27:58 PM
Quote from: s3779m on August 01, 2017, 01:39:48 PM
I would listen to Rush more if he would label the problem as there are not enough conservatives in our government. I wish Trump would realize the same thing.

Trump is a liberal.  He's not going to change his stripes but I truly believe he was sick and tired of all the crap that was/is destroying this country (and ultimately affecting his wallet). I have been surprised by some of his actions; his display of patriotism at his pre-inauguration events, Syrian missile strike, his appointment of Gorsuch, his dealing with illegals, etc.  It is obvious that the GOPe is out to derail his presidency.  Trump is far from stupid; he sees what's going on.  IMHO his biggest downfall so far is not knowing the functionality of government and he quickly is learning that running a government is different than running a business.

I quit listening to Rush as well as Hannity when they didn't back Cruz.  There is no going back for me. 
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Why?  He can attack conservatives just fine as a Republican.

Interestingly enough if the media thought he might ensure a dem win they would all of a sudden give him glowing  coverage. I also think he could win with 35-40% of the vote.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on July 31, 2017, 03:46:36 PM
Isn't that what he's doing now?  He's attacking whom he needs to attack just fine without switching parties.  What advantage do you think he'd have as an Independent??

The big advantage would be that he could win in 2020 with 35-40% of the vote. I really wish a new party could gain access to all states and challenge the reps and dems. Ina 3 way race with all Trump supporters supporting Trumps new party they could  pick up alot  of  congressional seats.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 02, 2017, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:25:57 PM
The big advantage would be that he could win in 2020 with 35-40% of the vote. I really wish a new party could gain access to all states and challenge the reps and dems. Ina 3 way race with all Trump supporters supporting Trumps new party they could  pick up alot  of  congressional seats.
We already have a Dim as Potus the libs helped elect him, how is a Dim going to draw the Conservative caucus away from the gop'E?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 02, 2017, 04:43:19 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
Interestingly enough if the media thought he might ensure a dem win they would all of a sudden give him glowing  coverage. I also think he could win with 35-40% of the vote.

??? You do realize how difficult it is for any candidate to 'qualify' for a 3rd party run and how the 'system' is set up to make it nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win, right?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 02, 2017, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 02, 2017, 04:43:19 PM
??? You do realize how difficult it is for any candidate to 'qualify' for a 3rd party run and how the 'system' is set up to make it nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win, right?
Obviously, he does not.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 02, 2017, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:25:57 PM
The big advantage would be that he could win in 2020 with 35-40% of the vote. I really wish a new party could gain access to all states and challenge the reps and dems. Ina 3 way race with all Trump supporters supporting Trumps new party they could  pick up alot  of  congressional seats.

How are you figuring your stats of 35 -40%??  What are you basing that on, are is this your opinion? Secondly, let's say hypothetically, by a long, long, nearly impossible stretch, he runs 3rd party and wins ... what does that change exactly??  You still have the House and Senate comprised of Republicans and Democrats.  So what would change? Or, are you simply stating that you think his chances of winning would be greater running as an Independent?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Possum on August 03, 2017, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.
Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 05:35:42 AM
Quote from: s3779m on August 03, 2017, 12:12:00 AM
Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.

It is extremely difficult if nearly not impossible to win as a 3rd party candidate.  To better explain; excerpts from Forbes:

....The necessity of getting an absolute majority in the Electoral College is the main thing that has made third parties unviable in America. In practice, it is impossible for a third party to ever elect a president, which might be possible if the president was elected by popular vote or by a plurality of the Electoral College. As a practical matter, it's prohibitively difficult for a third party to be consistently competitive even at the state or local level without the possibility of ever electing a president.

The problem for third parties is compounded by restrictive ballot access laws and other barriers that the major parties have erected to protect their de facto monopoly. Single-member congressional districts and first-past-the-post election rules also tend to favor the two-party system.
........

....Generally speaking, third parties have either been vehicles for high-profile individuals with a personal following or rigid ideological interests such as the Libertarian and Green parties. The major impact of ideological parties, however, is to drain votes away from the major party closest to their position. Green Party votes mostly come at the expense of Democrats, and those of the Libertarian Party mainly come from the Republicans.

Perhaps more important, third parties divert activists who would otherwise work within the major parties to achieve their goals into organizations that have no real electoral influence. ....


As for not having Cruz as our president, of course there are Trump's lies and false accusations against Cruz to blame, and Trump's domination of the media (including Hannity), but IMHO I also blame Priebus as he quickly pushed Trump's nomination through without even a roll count vote during the convention. I'm glad the scum is finally gone and I hope his political career is over.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/05/13/third-parties-fusion-voting-elections-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: ldub23 on August 03, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
Quote from: s3779m on August 03, 2017, 12:12:00 AM
Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.

How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 03, 2017, 06:30:30 AM
Quote from: ldub23 on August 03, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, where do you get this shit?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 09:40:12 AM
Quote from: ldub23 on August 03, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.

??? That's laughable.  Cruz's 'ground game' was far superior to any other candidate and he would have made a laughing stock out of her during the debates.  My hunch is you haven't done your homework and don't know his background.

I'm still supporting Cruz; without him, we'd be in deep doo-doo (to put it mildly).
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 03, 2017, 09:51:55 AM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 09:40:12 AM
??? That's laughable.  Cruz's 'ground game' was far superior to any other candidate and he would have made a laughing stock out of her during the debates.  My hunch is you haven't done your homework and don't know his background.

I'm still supporting Cruz; without him, we'd be in deep doo-doo (to put it mildly).
Doesn't he know it took the entire GOP to stop Cruz by keeping a loser like Rubio in the running to siphon votes away from Ted?
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 09:59:11 AM
Many comments are well intentioned.
Yet is more politics the solution to the malaise that engulfs us???
If a 3rd Party is insufficient, how about a 4th or perhaps a 5th?
We could even do a reprise of Wiemar in the Twenties.
We have lost the vision of our Founders because we have lost our character as a nation-state.
The collective assholery that wields our levers of power is mute testament to that cold reality!
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 03, 2017, 10:54:55 AM
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 09:59:11 AM
Many comments are well intentioned.
Yet is more politics the solution to the malaise that engulfs us???
If a 3rd Party is insufficient, how about a 4th or perhaps a 5th?
We could even do a reprise of Wiemar in the Twenties.
We have lost the vision of our Founders because we have lost our character as a nation-state.
The collective assholery that wields our levers of power is mute testament to that cold reality!
Walter, I'd think you'd see the futility of a 24th party without the backing of a revolution.

There's a reason 23, third party attempts exist, none of them matter outside of a protest vote.
The only way a third party movement can work is if one faction of an existing party decides to split off and form a new coalition.
Can you imagine the entire Conservative base abandoning the GOP?
No one can, that is, unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference.

Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Solar,
You know I was being facetious.
Matters are outlandish enough in DC w/o a do-over of Italian Politics.
The Almighty blessed our Founders w/wisdom.
Can we find their like among us again???
Your observation about Revolution is provocative.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 03, 2017, 12:31:58 PM
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Solar,
You know I was being facetious.
, Ah, I missed that.

QuoteMatters are outlandish enough in DC w/o a do-over of Italian Politics.
The Almighty blessed our Founders w/wisdom.
Can we find their like among us again???
Your observation about Revolution is provocative.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Not revolution in the conventional sense of a blood war, but rather our Representatives staging a coup, and if failed, leaving the party and starting anew.
I believe this is the only way a third party movement will ever gain traction, is if a near majority portion abandons the party.
The reason I believe this hasn't happened is two fold, one being fear, the other is that they are seeing the backing of the Nation swinging in their favor, so it's only a matter of time before the Conservative caucus holds majority status.

Whoever seizes majority status, immediately takes a 70% solid hold over the entire party. We are nearly there and the Establishment is shittn bricks over it.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: Solar on August 03, 2017, 10:54:55 AM
Walter, I'd think you'd see the futility of a 24th party without the backing of a revolution.

There's a reason 23, third party attempts exist, none of them matter outside of a protest vote.
The only way a third party movement can work is if one faction of an existing party decides to split off and form a new coalition.
Can you imagine the entire Conservative base abandoning the GOP?
No one can, that is, unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference.

...." unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference."

Exactly!!  IMHO the one person whom I think could persuade those to follow and create such a movement and run 3rd party is Ted Cruz and I have often thought recently that if they were to join up with the Constitution Party there would be a slim possibility that they could win.  The Constitution Party has the platform and is already structured, and Cruz now has the name recognition.

Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 03, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
...." unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference."

Exactly!!  IMHO the one person whom I think could persuade those to follow and create such a movement and run 3rd party is Ted Cruz and I have often thought recently that if they were to join up with the Constitution Party there would be a slim possibility that they could win.  The Constitution Party has the platform and is already structured, and Cruz now has the name recognition.
I have no doubt the subject has been discussed, and almost as fast as the subject was broached, the question of, "Who will pay for it"? Ended the conversation.
That's the problem with starting a third party, you need offices in every state paying rent, staff to run campaigns, all of which takes billions to establish a real threat to an existing party.
I do believe if the Conservative Caucus were to challenge the gop'E in the form of coup, I believe we'd see a ground swell operation willing to support them, though I do believe we've passed the precipice of a need for a revolt, I believe we're on the verge of claiming the GOP for our own..
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: supsalemgr on August 04, 2017, 04:54:12 AM
Quote from: Solar on August 03, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
I have no doubt the subject has been discussed, and almost as fast as the subject was broached, the question of, "Who will pay for it"? Ended the conversation.
That's the problem with starting a third party, you need offices in every state paying rent, staff to run campaigns, all of which takes billions to establish a real threat to an existing party.
I do believe if the Conservative Caucus were to challenge the gop'E in the form of coup, I believe we'd see a ground swell operation willing to support them, though I do believe we've passed the precipice of a need for a revolt, I believe we're on the verge of claiming the GOP for our own..

So true. TEA is an evolution and it has only been in existence for about eight years. The process is to undo a system that has been in place for decades. It takes time to recruit new folks with good ideas. Look at how the Freedom Caucus has evolved into a real factor within the GOP. Also, Trump has helped by bringing a segment of our population back to their senses. Just stay the course.
Title: Re: Trump should declare he is an independent.
Post by: Solar on August 04, 2017, 07:15:04 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 04, 2017, 04:54:12 AM
So true. TEA is an evolution and it has only been in existence for about eight years. The process is to undo a system that has been in place for decades. It takes time to recruit new folks with good ideas. Look at how the Freedom Caucus has evolved into a real factor within the GOP. Also, Trump has helped by bringing a segment of our population back to their senses. Just stay the course.
Exactly! It took the gop'E more than a century to take the party this far left, and TEA has managed to drag it kicking and screaming back to the point where half the party is about to be purged.
There's no reason we need to change tactics at this point, especially while on the verge of owning the party within another election cycle, maybe two.
The Marxist Establishment would love nothing more than to start a 3rd party movement, ensuring a leftist stronghold on the nations political system.