Quote from: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
Interestingly enough if the media thought he might ensure a dem win they would all of a sudden give him glowing  coverage. I also think he could win with 35-40% of the vote.

??? You do realize how difficult it is for any candidate to 'qualify' for a 3rd party run and how the 'system' is set up to make it nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win, right?

Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 02, 2017, 04:43:19 PM
??? You do realize how difficult it is for any candidate to 'qualify' for a 3rd party run and how the 'system' is set up to make it nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win, right?

Obviously, he does not.

Quote from: ldub23 on August 02, 2017, 04:25:57 PM
The big advantage would be that he could win in 2020 with 35-40% of the vote. I really wish a new party could gain access to all states and challenge the reps and dems. Ina 3 way race with all Trump supporters supporting Trumps new party they could  pick up alot  of  congressional seats.

How are you figuring your stats of 35 -40%??  What are you basing that on, are is this your opinion? Secondly, let's say hypothetically, by a long, long, nearly impossible stretch, he runs 3rd party and wins ... what does that change exactly??  You still have the House and Senate comprised of Republicans and Democrats.  So what would change? Or, are you simply stating that you think his chances of winning would be greater running as an Independent?

Quote from: ldub23 on July 31, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
I think he would be at his best by attacking  both parties equally. He should also announce he will run as an independent  in 2020.

Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.

Quote from: s3779m on August 03, 2017, 12:12:00 AM
Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.

It is extremely difficult if nearly not impossible to win as a 3rd party candidate.  To better explain; excerpts from Forbes:

....The necessity of getting an absolute majority in the Electoral College is the main thing that has made third parties unviable in America. In practice, it is impossible for a third party to ever elect a president, which might be possible if the president was elected by popular vote or by a plurality of the Electoral College. As a practical matter, it's prohibitively difficult for a third party to be consistently competitive even at the state or local level without the possibility of ever electing a president.

The problem for third parties is compounded by restrictive ballot access laws and other barriers that the major parties have erected to protect their de facto monopoly. Single-member congressional districts and first-past-the-post election rules also tend to favor the two-party system.........

....Generally speaking, third parties have either been vehicles for high-profile individuals with a personal following or rigid ideological interests such as the Libertarian and Green parties. The major impact of ideological parties, however, is to drain votes away from the major party closest to their position. Green Party votes mostly come at the expense of Democrats, and those of the Libertarian Party mainly come from the Republicans.

Perhaps more important, third parties divert activists who would otherwise work within the major parties to achieve their goals into organizations that have no real electoral influence. ....

As for not having Cruz as our president, of course there are Trump's lies and false accusations against Cruz to blame, and Trump's domination of the media (including Hannity), but IMHO I also blame Priebus as he quickly pushed Trump's nomination through without even a roll count vote during the convention. I'm glad the scum is finally gone and I hope his political career is over.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/05/13/third-parties-fusion-voting-elections-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

Quote from: s3779m on August 03, 2017, 12:12:00 AM
Trump is finding out quickly he can not run the government like he ran his daddy's business. The only people he is (can) firing are basically his own damn appointees. He can not fire congress nor can he demand loyalty from them. The only way I could see a very slim chance of him running as an independent would be if he still wanted the job, which I doubt, and if the polls showed overwhelming support for him, which they don't. As for a second term, we better hope hillary runs again because she polls even lower than he does.


Damn, and we could have had Cruz.

How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.

Quote from: ldub23 on August 03, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.

Seriously, where do you get this shit?

Quote from: ldub23 on August 03, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
How? Cruz could not have beaten Hillary.

??? That's laughable.  Cruz's 'ground game' was far superior to any other candidate and he would have made a laughing stock out of her during the debates.  My hunch is you haven't done your homework and don't know his background.

I'm still supporting Cruz; without him, we'd be in deep doo-doo (to put it mildly).

Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 09:40:12 AM
??? That's laughable.  Cruz's 'ground game' was far superior to any other candidate and he would have made a laughing stock out of her during the debates.  My hunch is you haven't done your homework and don't know his background.

I'm still supporting Cruz; without him, we'd be in deep doo-doo (to put it mildly).

Doesn't he know it took the entire GOP to stop Cruz by keeping a loser like Rubio in the running to siphon votes away from Ted?

Many comments are well intentioned.
Yet is more politics the solution to the malaise that engulfs us???
If a 3rd Party is insufficient, how about a 4th or perhaps a 5th?
We could even do a reprise of Wiemar in the Twenties.
We have lost the vision of our Founders because we have lost our character as a nation-state.
The collective assholery that wields our levers of power is mute testament to that cold reality!

Quote from: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 09:59:11 AM
Many comments are well intentioned.
Yet is more politics the solution to the malaise that engulfs us???
If a 3rd Party is insufficient, how about a 4th or perhaps a 5th?
We could even do a reprise of Wiemar in the Twenties.
We have lost the vision of our Founders because we have lost our character as a nation-state.
The collective assholery that wields our levers of power is mute testament to that cold reality!

Walter, I'd think you'd see the futility of a 24th party without the backing of a revolution.

There's a reason 23, third party attempts exist, none of them matter outside of a protest vote.
The only way a third party movement can work is if one faction of an existing party decides to split off and form a new coalition.
Can you imagine the entire Conservative base abandoning the GOP?
No one can, that is, unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference.

Solar,
You know I was being facetious.
Matters are outlandish enough in DC w/o a do-over of Italian Politics.
The Almighty blessed our Founders w/wisdom.
Can we find their like among us again???
Your observation about Revolution is provocative.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Quote from: Walter Josh on August 03, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Solar,
You know I was being facetious.

, Ah, I missed that.

QuoteMatters are outlandish enough in DC w/o a do-over of Italian Politics.
The Almighty blessed our Founders w/wisdom.
Can we find their like among us again???
Your observation about Revolution is provocative.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Not revolution in the conventional sense of a blood war, but rather our Representatives staging a coup, and if failed, leaving the party and starting anew.
I believe this is the only way a third party movement will ever gain traction, is if a near majority portion abandons the party.
The reason I believe this hasn't happened is two fold, one being fear, the other is that they are seeing the backing of the Nation swinging in their favor, so it's only a matter of time before the Conservative caucus holds majority status.

Whoever seizes majority status, immediately takes a 70% solid hold over the entire party. We are nearly there and the Establishment is shittn bricks over it.

Quote from: Solar on August 03, 2017, 10:54:55 AM
Walter, I'd think you'd see the futility of a 24th party without the backing of a revolution.

There's a reason 23, third party attempts exist, none of them matter outside of a protest vote.
The only way a third party movement can work is if one faction of an existing party decides to split off and form a new coalition.
Can you imagine the entire Conservative base abandoning the GOP?
No one can, that is, unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference.

...." unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference."

Exactly!!  IMHO the one person whom I think could persuade those to follow and create such a movement and run 3rd party is Ted Cruz and I have often thought recently that if they were to join up with the Constitution Party there would be a slim possibility that they could win.  The Constitution Party has the platform and is already structured, and Cruz now has the name recognition.

Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 03, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
...." unless the entire Conservative Caucus walks away and starts a viable movement, then, and only then, will a 3rd party offense have a shot at making a difference."

Exactly!!  IMHO the one person whom I think could persuade those to follow and create such a movement and run 3rd party is Ted Cruz and I have often thought recently that if they were to join up with the Constitution Party there would be a slim possibility that they could win.  The Constitution Party has the platform and is already structured, and Cruz now has the name recognition.

I have no doubt the subject has been discussed, and almost as fast as the subject was broached, the question of, "Who will pay for it"? Ended the conversation.
That's the problem with starting a third party, you need offices in every state paying rent, staff to run campaigns, all of which takes billions to establish a real threat to an existing party.
I do believe if the Conservative Caucus were to challenge the gop'E in the form of coup, I believe we'd see a ground swell operation willing to support them, though I do believe we've passed the precipice of a need for a revolt, I believe we're on the verge of claiming the GOP for our own..