Love em or hate em, he's right.

Fifty-one percent of Republicans think waterboarding is torture but 73 percent say it and other "aggressive interrogation tactics" are justified at least some of the time. And the trendline is upward, not downward, which feels counterintuitive as we get farther away from 9/11. FiveThirtyEight crunched some data from Pew late last year:


http://hotair.com/archives/2015/11/24/trump-on-waterboarding-if-it-doesnt-work-they-deserve-it-anyway/

Let's face it.  Our warriors are always tortured if captured. 

Why should we put ourselves above doing this?  We know it can produce critical information.  If we are willing to kill them, why not torture them?  It makes no sense to me.  An enemy is an enemy.  Do what you have to do to insure the survival of our troops and an advantage in the war.  It can save lives!!

Quote from: kroz on November 27, 2015, 03:18:44 PM
Let's face it.  Our warriors are always tortured if captured. 

Why should we put ourselves above doing this?  We know it can produce critical information.  If we are willing to kill them, why not torture them?  It makes no sense to me.  An enemy is an enemy.  Do what you have to do to insure the survival of our troops and an advantage in the war.  It can save lives!!

I have absolutely no issue with it, considering what ISIS is doing to those they capture, it only seems fitting they suffer the same fate.
I'll donate the gas and matches.                               

Exceptional measures should be reserved for exceptional cases.
Use "enhanced interrogation" only in the really urgent cases,
not across the board.

Police here at home use "psychological torture" to get confessions -
telling suspects that they have hard evidence when they really don't,
threatening to prosecute innocent acquaintances of suspects, etc.

SOME sort of pressure HAS to be used, in most cases.
Very few crooks openly brag DIRECTLY to cops!
(But they brag a lot among themselves!)
So there's an idea: put moles in among the prisoners!
(The Germans did that a lot in WWII.)

Drugs like sodium pentothal can be effective,
but it's hard to get the dose right.
It's a narrow line between fully awake and unconscious.

It bothers me when presidential candidates are made to
publicly discuss in detail what their "torture" policies would be.
When the media presses that question in debates,
they're helping the enemy write their training manual!

Quote from: je_freedom on November 27, 2015, 09:27:09 PM
Exceptional measures should be reserved for exceptional cases.
Use "enhanced interrogation" only in the really urgent cases,
not across the board.

Police here at home use "psychological torture" to get confessions -
telling suspects that they have hard evidence when they really don't,
threatening to prosecute innocent acquaintances of suspects, etc.

SOME sort of pressure HAS to be used, in most cases.
Very few crooks openly brag DIRECTLY to cops!
(But they brag a lot among themselves!)
So there's an idea: put moles in among the prisoners!
(The Germans did that a lot in WWII.)

Drugs like sodium pentothal can be effective,
but it's hard to get the dose right.
It's a narrow line between fully awake and unconscious.

It bothers me when presidential candidates are made to
publicly discuss in detail what their "torture" policies would be.
When the media presses that question in debates,
they're helping the enemy write their training manual!

Trump's point was, why only use it as an interrogation tactic, when you can use it as a deterrent.
Lets be honest, lets say, ISIS captures an American soldier, do you really think they won't torture him?
So why not show these scum we're far more brutal than they are and deter them from engaging us.

I have no doubt showing the enemy a video where we surgically attach pig limbs, in place of arms and legs to one of their beloved, the impact would be devastating to Muscum morale.
Yeah, even though I haven't the surgical expertise, I'd happily volunteer to take on the project anyway.

Do I sound brutallty cruel? Good, the enemy needs to know what Americans are capable of.

Quote from: Solar on November 28, 2015, 06:16:07 AM
Trump's point was, why only use it as an interrogation tactic, when you can use it as a deterrent.
Lets be honest, lets say, ISIS captures an American soldier, do you really think they won't torture him?
So why not show these scum we're far more brutal than they are and deter them from engaging us.

I have no doubt showing the enemy a video where we surgically attach pig limbs, in place of arms and legs to one of their beloved, the impact would be devastating to Muscum morale.
Yeah, even though I haven't the surgical expertise, I'd happily volunteer to take on the project anyway.

Do I sound brutallty cruel? Good, the enemy needs to know what Americans are capable of.

Solar, you have accurately hit upon our root problem in America.  It goes far beyond our military rules of engagement.  It permeates our culture.

We don't think it is right to hurt ANYONE.  It is not PC.

Not only do we not want to hurt our prisoners of war but we don't want to hurt anyone or anything.  That is deemed bad!

BUT, since the beginning of time it is well documented that punishment is a deterrent to wrong behavior.  Pain is an age old method of discipline.  It is not the ONLY method of discipline but it is the fastest way to achieve desired results.

If we abandon this truism, we are rotting at the core.

Today if we "hurt" our children they will be taken away by child services. 

Pain has a rightful place in our society..... both in war and at home.

Quote from: kroz on November 28, 2015, 06:35:37 AM
Solar, you have accurately hit upon our root problem in America.  It goes far beyond our military rules of engagement.  It permeates our culture.

We don't think it is right to hurt ANYONE.  It is not PC.

Not only do we not want to hurt our prisoners of war but we don't want to hurt anyone or anything.  That is deemed bad!

BUT, since the beginning of time it is well documented that punishment is a deterrent to wrong behavior.  Pain is an age old method of discipline.  It is not the ONLY method of discipline but it is the fastest way to achieve desired results.

If we abandon this truism, we are rotting at the core.

Today if we "hurt" our children they will be taken away by child services. 

Pain has a rightful place in our society..... both in war and at home.

Nailed It! Sun Tzu would be impressed.
I understand where those in power are coming from, in that we have the most powerful Military in history, 10 fold over that of our enemies.
So their thinking is win the battle, show mercy and they'll join our cause, problem is, not all enemies share our goal of life.
Muscums believe in dying for their cause, literally the opposite of our concept of war, and with that in mind we have numskulls in power that refuse to face reality, the reality that the enemy sees victory in dying with their enemy.

Yeah, for me, a great deterrent would be to send back a dozen or so medically enhanced pigmen Muscum, where they walk in with pig appendages, including snouts, but still recognizable as terrorist leadership.
No one can tell me that wouldn't have a serious impact on morale, as well as freaking out the majority of their troops hoping for their 70 virgins, knowing Allah would never accept a pigman into his domain.

Quote from: Solar on November 28, 2015, 07:40:11 AM
Nailed It! Sun Tzu would be impressed.
I understand where those in power are coming from, in that we have the most powerful Military in history, 10 fold over that of our enemies.
So their thinking is win the battle, show mercy and they'll join our cause, problem is, not all enemies share our goal of life.
Muscums believe in dying for their cause, literally the opposite of our concept of war, and with that in mind we have numskulls in power that refuse to face reality, the reality that the enemy sees victory in dying with their enemy.

Yeah, for me, a great deterrent would be to send back a dozen or so medically enhanced pigmen Muscum, where they walk in with pig appendages, including snouts, but still recognizable as terrorist leadership.
No one can tell me that wouldn't have a serious impact on morale, as well as freaking out the majority of their troops hoping for their 70 virgins, knowing Allah would never accept a pigman into his domain.

Maybe next time they capture one of ours, we can pay Assad for a couple of ISIS agents and turn them into pigmen, and ship them back to Syria. Teach them a lesson and promote the idea that Assad loves those goat bangers.

If we have no problem killing them, then I don't see what the bid deal is about torture.  If you can get actionable intel doing it, great, if not send them to Allah.

Quote from: Solar on November 27, 2015, 03:13:09 PM
Love em or hate em, he's right.

Fifty-one percent of Republicans think waterboarding is torture but 73 percent say it and other "aggressive interrogation tactics" are justified at least some of the time. And the trendline is upward, not downward, which feels counterintuitive as we get farther away from 9/11. FiveThirtyEight crunched some data from Pew late last year:


http://hotair.com/archives/2015/11/24/trump-on-waterboarding-if-it-doesnt-work-they-deserve-it-anyway/

Solar ever seen any statistics on the veracity of intel obtained through that process?

Just wondering, as torture, such as oh I don't know, the rack, or iron maiden for example, is notoriously proven to be in-effective in obtaining real information.

Quote from: daidalos on November 28, 2015, 01:38:25 PM
Solar ever seen any statistics on the veracity of intel obtained through that process?

Just wondering, as torture, such as oh I don't know, the rack, or iron maiden for example, is notoriously proven to be in-effective in obtaining real information.

If that were true no one would do it.   

The truth is that it DOES produce usable intelligence in most instances.  Nothing is perfect.  Some will not crack.  But most do.

Quote from: daidalos on November 28, 2015, 01:38:25 PM
Solar ever seen any statistics on the veracity of intel obtained through that process?

Just wondering, as torture, such as oh I don't know, the rack, or iron maiden for example, is notoriously proven to be in-effective in obtaining real information.

If it didn't work, they wouldn't use it, it's really that simple.

Quote from: Solar on November 28, 2015, 06:16:07 AM
Trump's point was, why only use it as an interrogation tactic, when you can use it as a deterrent.
Lets be honest, lets say, ISIS captures an American soldier, do you really think they won't torture him?
So why not show these scum we're far more brutal than they are and deter them from engaging us.

I have no doubt showing the enemy a video where we surgically attach pig limbs, in place of arms and legs to one of their beloved, the impact would be devastating to Muscum morale.
Yeah, even though I haven't the surgical expertise, I'd happily volunteer to take on the project anyway.

Do I sound brutallty cruel? Good, the enemy needs to know what Americans are capable of.

About how ISIS would torture a shot down American pilot; they would probably execute him in public, in a particularly gruesome manner. That's why Obama is so tentative about his bombing. The execution of an American pilot would force him to reply in a like manner, and he really prefers to hide out in the White House or on a golf course.

Quote from: Solar on November 28, 2015, 06:16:07 AM
Trump's point was, why only use it as an interrogation tactic, when you can use it as a deterrent.
Lets be honest, lets say, ISIS captures an American soldier, do you really think they won't torture him?
So why not show these scum we're far more brutal than they are and deter them from engaging us.

I have no doubt showing the enemy a video where we surgically attach pig limbs, in place of arms and legs to one of their beloved, the impact would be devastating to Muscum morale.
Yeah, even though I haven't the surgical expertise, I'd happily volunteer to take on the project anyway.

Do I sound brutallty cruel? Good, the enemy needs to know what Americans are capable of.

They reported that sheik Mohammad's longest session was less then 2 minutes You think that's torture? Hears an idea! Get a table, plastic wrap, a few water jugs and a big clock, open a booth at bike week in Daytona with a big sign that says " BEAT THE SHIEK".  charge 10 dollars a pop you'd have them lined up around the block to try it!!   

Yeah, they deserve it, but honestly, waterboarding isn;t really effective. Isolation cells and drugging are much better.