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General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:48:06 AM

Title: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:48:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6EvA-PWcAAKudc.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:49:15 AM
He made several other tweets as well. Should be an interesting day.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:51:49 AM
 Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 47m47 minutes ago

How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
13,787 replies 8,237 retweets 21,007 likes
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 57m57 minutes ago

I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 05:38:40 AM
We are very early into this and more details will emerge. From all indications there was a FISA warrant which makes this activity legal. That being said the optics of it against Obama and the democrats could be huge, IF Trump and the GOP do not screw it up. The paper trail will be interesting to see how high the approvals of the taps went.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Possum on March 04, 2017, 05:58:09 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 05:38:40 AM
We are very early into this and more details will emerge. From all indications there was a FISA warrant which makes this activity legal. That being said the optics of it against Obama and the democrats could be huge, IF Trump and the GOP do not screw it up. The paper trail will be interesting to see how high the approvals of the taps went.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Guessing here that it helps to explain why hillary remained confident of her victory. She must have know about the taps too. Wonder what the odds are that obama had her lines tapped too? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Bronx on March 04, 2017, 06:20:26 AM
Quote from: s3779m on March 04, 2017, 05:58:09 AM
Guessing here that it helps to explain why hillary remained confident of her victory. She must have know about the taps too. Wonder what the odds are that obama had her lines tapped too? :popcorn:

With the media pounding in her ear everyday and all day long that she was leading in the polls and the polls don't lie. One of them polls had her up by 80%. Like Trump stated her rallies was telling a different story from what the polls showed.

These liberal fools tell so many lies that they believe in them to the bitter end. Then the truth comes out and slaps them in the ass and bingo the meltdowns.

President Trump needs to start firing some heavy hitters and fast. I understand he has to find the leaks to fix them. But hell have a water leak in your walls and watch a plumber go to work. It will look like a mess to begin with until the leak is found. Then bingo it will be leak free from there on out.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 07:03:17 AM
Quote from: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:48:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6EvA-PWcAAKudc.jpg)
LINK!!!!! What did I tell you about posting shit wothout a link?
With that said...

Does Trump even know what the fuck McCarthy was trying to do?
Trump, get your historical accusations correct! Try NAZI era activities dumb ass!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-administration-wiretapping-trump-tower-phones.html
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Thinker on March 04, 2017, 08:47:04 AM
Well...most of us knew Obama was a slimy POS.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 09:11:29 AM
Quote from: Thinker on March 04, 2017, 08:47:04 AM
Well...most of us knew Obama was a slimy POS.

Which raises the question, how many would be surprised if Obama did this? I certainly would not.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: walkstall on March 04, 2017, 09:22:53 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 09:11:29 AM
Which raises the question, how many would be surprised if Obama did this? I certainly would not.

My first questions would be, did he also tap Trumps kid's phone also. 
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 09:25:03 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 09:11:29 AM
Which raises the question, how many would be surprised if Obama did this? I certainly would not.
I have no doubt the Marxist tapped Trump's communications. I also expect Trump to open an investigation exposing the Dims over this shit.
Knowing Trump, he won't let leftist media sweep it under the rug as they usually do either.

Breitbart article posted Friday that claimed the Obama administration made two Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) requests in 2016 to monitor Trump communications and a computer server in Trump Tower focusing on possible links with Russian banks. No evidence was found.

The article was based off a segment by radio host Mark Levin.

During his Saturday morning tweets, Trump also brought up the ongoing controversy surrounding Attorney General Jeff Sessions and his reported meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in 2016.
He said the first meeting between the former Senator and Kislyak was arranged by the Obama administration.

"Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jess Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone," he wrote.

On Friday, Trump fought back against top Democratic lawmakers who are demanding his attorney general's resignation over past meetings with Russia's ambassador -- after pictures emerged of the same lawmakers in similar meetings, exposing them to "hypocrisy" charges.

Trump tweeted: "I hereby demand a second investigation, after Schumer, of Pelosi for her close ties to Russia, and lying about it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-administration-wiretapping-trump-tower-phones.html
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Thinker on March 04, 2017, 09:30:51 AM
Pretty much proves the point that those who rant and rave the loudest are the ones that are guilty as sin.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: Solar on March 04, 2017, 09:25:03 AM
I have no doubt the Marxist tapped Trump's communications. I also expect Trump to open an investigation exposing the Dims over this shit.
Knowing Trump, he won't let leftist media sweep it under the rug as they usually do either.

Breitbart article posted Friday that claimed the Obama administration made two Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) requests in 2016 to monitor Trump communications and a computer server in Trump Tower focusing on possible links with Russian banks. No evidence was found.

The article was based off a segment by radio host Mark Levin.

During his Saturday morning tweets, Trump also brought up the ongoing controversy surrounding Attorney General Jeff Sessions and his reported meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in 2016.
He said the first meeting between the former Senator and Kislyak was arranged by the Obama administration.

"Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jess Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone," he wrote.

On Friday, Trump fought back against top Democratic lawmakers who are demanding his attorney general's resignation over past meetings with Russia's ambassador -- after pictures emerged of the same lawmakers in similar meetings, exposing them to "hypocrisy" charges.

Trump tweeted: "I hereby demand a second investigation, after Schumer, of Pelosi for her close ties to Russia, and lying about it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-administration-wiretapping-trump-tower-phones.html

I just hope Trump does not get too far out in front of this. Be patient and thorough before too many accusations. I heard a report that Obama stooge Ben Rhodes said Obama would not do this without a warrant. In other words, it was done.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 10:36:09 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 10:22:09 AM
I just hope Trump does not get too far out in front of this. Be patient and thorough before too many accusations. I heard a report that Obama stooge Ben Rhodes said Obama would not do this without a warrant. In other words, it was done.
That's the problem with secret courts and Marxists, they can get away with murder and claim it was all legal.
I trust that Trump will play this like a fine cello in a solo performance with the NY Philharmonic as accompaniment, he just seems to have a certain knack for milking every drop of blood, leaving the media with nothing to come back on him with.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: Solar on March 04, 2017, 10:36:09 AM
That's the problem with secret courts and Marxists, they can get away with murder and claim it was all legal.
I trust that Trump will play this like a fine cello in a solo performance with the NY Philharmonic as accompaniment, he just seems to have a certain knack for milking every drop of blood, leaving the media with nothing to come back on him with.

One thing for sure he knows how to change the narrative. This got the emphasis off Sessions.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
One thing for sure he knows how to change the narrative. This got the emphasis off Sessions.
Exactly! Now he sits back and waits to toss another log on the fire.
He did show us one thing, he knows how top use the media and play them for the useful idiots they are.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: Solar on March 04, 2017, 11:20:21 AM
Exactly! Now he sits back and waits to toss another log on the fire.
He did show us one thing, he knows how top use the media and play them for the useful idiots they are.

The MSM does not understand Trump is not Cub Scout Pack #54. He has been successful in NYC and around the world in a difficult business. He has had to deal with unions and regulations and knows how to win in dealing with those tough hombres. My only hope is he does it in a "presidential" manner. It is OK to have his folks do the dirty work.

Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 02:22:32 PM
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 04, 2017, 01:18:17 PM
The MSM does not understand Trump is not Cub Scout Pack #54. He has been successful in NYC and around the world in a difficult business. He has had to deal with unions and regulations and knows how to win in dealing with those tough hombres. My only hope is he does it in a "presidential" manner. It is OK to have his folks do the dirty work.
The LSM became complacent, to the point of being spoiled in having decades of RINO in office refusing to fight back, now Trump comes along using their very own tactics against them, and loaded for bear.
I may not like the guy, but I respect a man that when challenged, or had his character besmirched, kicks the ass of his attacker and publically humiliates the bully, he gets a huge gold star next to his name in my book. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Rotwang on March 04, 2017, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: ldub23 on March 04, 2017, 04:48:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6EvA-PWcAAKudc.jpg)

I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that the despicable Marxist Obama would (and has) violated any law, any ethical standard, to forward his hateful agenda.

To see this jug-eared freak hauled off in cuffs would be beyond my wildest dreams.

Though I have no doubt he has committed dozens of PROVABLE Treasonous acts that would justify incarceration, I simply have no faith that even President Trump would go that far.

(prove me wrong)
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Thinker on March 04, 2017, 03:58:33 PM
Hey Obama...no comment??
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 04, 2017, 04:41:33 PM
Wow.  This is huge.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 05:08:58 PM
Quote from: mrclose on March 04, 2017, 04:44:30 PM
Nothing the Muslim did or will do will be held accountable to him!

As a reminder:

Didn't Obama tap Angela Merkel's cell phone?
Didn't Obama tap FOX reporter James Rosen's and his parents phone and e-mail?
Sharyl Attkisson ring a bell?
Trump wasn't POTUS yet. :wink:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 04, 2017, 05:29:23 PM
This explains why all the attempts to link Trump and his people to Russia, as if to justify, in the end, justification for the wire tapping.  Or am I off on that?
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: walkstall on March 04, 2017, 05:53:37 PM
Quote from: taxed on March 04, 2017, 05:29:23 PM
This explains why all the attempts to link Trump and his people to Russia, as if to justify, in the end, justification for the wire tapping.  Or am I off on that?


So when is Tweet going to block Trumps account.   :lol:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 04, 2017, 05:55:04 PM
Quote from: walkstall on March 04, 2017, 05:53:37 PM

So when is Tweet going to block Trumps account.   :lol:

Speaking of, Twitter has been pushing negative tweets to the top and his supporting tweets to the bottom so you have to scroll through negative tweets, giving the impression that he doesn't have support.

This whole thing has been crazy.  At least they're making their move before going down permanently.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: taxed on March 04, 2017, 05:55:04 PM
Speaking of, Twitter has been pushing negative tweets to the top and his supporting tweets to the bottom so you have to scroll through negative tweets, giving the impression that he doesn't have support.

This whole thing has been crazy.  At least they're making their move before going down permanently.
Social media is ripe for the pickin. The leftists have screwed people so badly that people are clamoring for actual freedom of speech and who better to guarantee them that right, than Conservatives?
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: topside on March 05, 2017, 04:58:17 AM


This was expressed by Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) to POTUS:

QuoteWe are in the midst of a civilization-warping crisis of public trust, and the President's allegations today demand the thorough and dispassionate attention of serious patriots. A quest for the full truth, rather than knee-jerk partisanship, must be our guide if we are going to rebuild civic trust and health. 

(from http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/04/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-slams-president-trumps-knee-jerk-partisanship/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/04/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-slams-president-trumps-knee-jerk-partisanship/) )

Well said. I trust that Trump can release evidence that corroborates his claim.



Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 05, 2017, 05:10:01 AM
Quote from: mrclose on March 04, 2017, 10:37:51 PM
http://dcwhispers.com/the-empire-fights-back-obama-operatives-claim-secret-trump-wire-tap-was-due-diligence/
This makes Watergate look like a bunch of preschoolers getting caught stealing cookies.
This goes way beyond just a 4th Amendment violation, this action was orchastrated by the highest office in the land with the sole purpose of interfering with an and directing the outcome of an election as well as levelinge treason charges being against Trump.

Yes, these are communists folks, red to the core! The GOP can't ignore this anylonger.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: walkstall on March 05, 2017, 05:19:05 AM
Quote from: topside on March 05, 2017, 04:58:17 AM

This was expressed by Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) to POTUS:

(from http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/04/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-slams-president-trumps-knee-jerk-partisanship/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/04/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-slams-president-trumps-knee-jerk-partisanship/) )

Well said. I trust that Trump can release evidence that corroborates his claim.


I think Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) would change his mind if he was getting wiretapped.  I have had 8+ years of b o lying about thing. 


(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noisyroom.net%2Fblog%2Fexcuseme1.jpg&hash=5e61e4e0ca9fa951f22a596e28c94540cdfe0f46)
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Possum on March 05, 2017, 05:28:47 AM
Quote from: walkstall on March 05, 2017, 05:19:05 AM

I think Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) would change his mind if he was getting wiretapped.  I have had 8+ years of b o lying about thing. 


(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noisyroom.net%2Fblog%2Fexcuseme1.jpg&hash=5e61e4e0ca9fa951f22a596e28c94540cdfe0f46)
How can anyone be surprised that obama would go this low? This was the bastard that used the I.R.S. to go after the Tea party. One major concern that I have, the rino's did not go after obama then, hopefully Trump can force them to do THEIR JOB this time.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 05, 2017, 05:54:10 AM
I think every bit of this is true, and YES there has to be evidence of it. My guess would be somebody within the FBI told Trump and maybe gave him all the particulars......somebody with a bone to pick against Obamao.... Lemme school yas

I'm probably the only person here who has actually gotten title 3 intercepts, I know the paper trail one leaves when such warrrants are obtained. You can't get a title 3 OR A FISA WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE HEAD US ATTORNEY IN YOUR DISTRICT. All you have to do is find out who was the USAO/AIC in the District covering NYC and Trump Towers. It really isnt that hard to get such warrant but if they are going after a Presidential Candidate, they must have had some heavy people really pushing it

You would have to go to the USA who SPECIALIZES in FISA cases/warrants, THEY MUST KEEP A COPY OF THE WARRANT AFFIDAVIT that outlines the probable cause in support of the warrant....a whole pile of names, of USA's as well s agents involved int he case. Then they go to the Judge, find out which Judge does FISA cases, real easy, when such warrants re approved the court keep a copy in their files,

You have some idea of the paper trail involved, you have the probable cause developed (or manufactured) then last but not least when the tap is EXECUTED the agents must submit a return, IE a transcript of all the tapes conversations etc etc.  AND IF THE TAPEd CONVERSATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRIME THE LAW SAYS YOU CANNOT RECORD IT, so unless it is Trump talking about colluding with Putin you'd have to turn the tape off and could record it.....legally....a transcript would show what was taped, this might be enough to start hanging people if they taped something they shouldn't have, like talking about the Campaign in general.

I start with Jeff Sessions appointing a special prosecutor and begin with subpeonea's for all of the aforementioned.
I'd probably start with the agents themselves, squeeze their cojones and they'll give up everybody else like who ordered Them. My guess would be this came from Lynch's office or Lynch herself....if not from Obamao then Jarrett.

This is Sedition, treason and violation of a Citizen (Trumps) rights, if anything will destroy the Dem party...THIS WILL BE IT.

Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Hoofer on March 05, 2017, 06:52:08 AM
Quote from: walkstall on March 05, 2017, 05:19:05 AM

I think Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) would change his mind if he was getting wiretapped.  I have had 8+ years of b o lying about thing. 

Ben Sasse is being a useful TOOL for the democrats.  Just playing him against Trump...
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 05, 2017, 07:46:13 AM
Billy nails it yet again...

From a law contributor on Dan Abram's site:
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on March 05, 2017, 05:54:10 AM
I think every bit of this is true, and YES there has to be evidence of it. My guess would be somebody within the FBI told Trump and maybe gave him all the particulars......somebody with a bone to pick against Obamao.... Lemme school yas

I'm probably the only person here who has actually gotten title 3 intercepts, I know the paper trail one leaves when such warrrants are obtained. You can't get a title 3 OR A FISA WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE HEAD US ATTORNEY IN YOUR DISTRICT. All you have to do is find out who was the USAO/AIC in the District covering NYC and Trump Towers. It really isnt that hard to get such warrant but if they are going after a Presidential Candidate, they must have had some heavy people really pushing it

You would have to go to the USA who SPECIALIZES in FISA cases/warrants, THEY MUST KEEP A COPY OF THE WARRANT AFFIDAVIT that outlines the probable cause in support of the warrant....a whole pile of names, of USA's as well s agents involved int he case. Then they go to the Judge, find out which Judge does FISA cases, real easy, when such warrants re approved the court keep a copy in their files, You have some idea of the paper trail involved, you have the probable cause developed (or manufactured) then last but not least when the tap is EXECUTED the agents must submit a return, IE a transcript of all the tapes conversations etc etc.  AND IF THE TAPEd CONVERSATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRIME THE LAW SAYS YOU CANNOT RECORD IT, so unless it is Trump talking about colluding with Putin you'd have to turn the tape off and could record it.....legally....a transcript would show what was taped, this might be enough to start hanging people if they taped something they shouldn't have, like talking about the Campaign in general.

From the link...

QuoteWhat crimes could have been committed? Ironically, for Democrats falsely accusing Attorney General Sessions, perjury and conspiracy to commit perjury, as well as intentional violations of FISA. Rather shockingly, no law currently forbids misusing the power of the presidency to spy on one's adversaries. What the law does forbid is lying to any judicial officer to obtain any means of surveillance. What the law does forbid, under criminal penalty, is the misuse of FISA. Both derive from the protections of the Fourth Amendment itself. Under section 1809, FISA makes it a crime for anyone to either "engage in" electronic surveillance under "color of law" under FISA without following the law's restrictions, or "disclose" or "use" information gathered from it in contravention of the statute's sharp constrictions.

FISA, 50 USC 1801, et seq., is a very limited method of obtaining surveillance authority. The reason for its strict limits is that FISA evades the regular federal court process, by not allowing regularly, Constitutionally appointed federal judges and their magistrates to authorize surveillance the Fourth Amendment would otherwise forbid. Instead, the Chief Justice handpicks the FISA court members, who have shown an exceptional deference to the executive branch. This is because FISA court members trust the government is only bringing them surveillance about pending terror attacks or "grave hostile" war-like attacks, as the FISA statute limits itself to. Thus, a FISA application can only be used in very limited circumstances.

One important reminder about electronic surveillance. Occasionally, a law enforcement officer will hear or see or record information not allowed by the warrant, but incidental or accidental to otherwise lawful surveillance. Their job is to immediately stop listening, stop recording, and to delete such information. This is what you occasionally see in films where the agent in the van hears the conversation turn away from something criminal to a personal discussion, and the agent then turns off the listening device and stops the recording. Such films simply recognize long-standing legal practice.

(Billy)
Quote
I start with Jeff Sessions appointing a special prosecutor and begin with subpeonea's for all of the aforementioned.
I'd probably start with the agents themselves, squeeze their cojones and they'll give up everybody else like who ordered Them. My guess would be this came from Lynch's office or Lynch herself....if not from Obamao then Jarrett.

This is Sedition, treason and violation of a Citizen (Trumps) rights, if anything will destroy the Dem party...THIS WILL BE IT.

I thought this was interesting:

QuoteDemocrats may regret Sessions' recusal, as his replacement is a mini-Sessions: a long-respected, a-political, highly ethical prosecutor, Dana Boente, whose reputation is well-warranted from his service at the Tax Division, and who won't be limited by any perceived ties to Trump, given his prior appointment by Obama. Obama himself appeared scared of Boente, as he removed Boente from the successor-to-Sessions position during the lame-duck part of Obama's presidency, but Trump restored Boente to that role earlier this month. Democrats may get the investigation they wanted, but it may be their own that end up named in the indictment.

This article is a must read and really brings you up to speed.  Here's the money shot I think:

QuoteThis raises the second problem: Obama's team submission of an affidavit to to the FISA court. An application for a warrant of any kind requires an affidavit, and that affidavit may not omit material factors. A fact is "material" if it could have the possible impact of impacting the judicial officer deciding whether to authorize the warrant. Such affidavits are the most carefully drawn up, reviewed, and approved affidavits of law enforcement in our system precisely because they must be fully-disclosing, forthcoming, and include any information a judge must know to decide whether to allow our government to spy on its own. My assumption would be that intelligence officials were trying to investigate hacking of DNC which is not even a FISA covered crime, so therefore serious questions arise about what Obama administration attorneys said to the FISA court to even consider the application. If the claim was "financial ties" to Russia, then Obama knew he had no basis to use FISA at all.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: mdgiles on March 05, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Quote from: walkstall on March 04, 2017, 09:22:53 AM
My first questions would be, did he also tap Trumps kid's phone also.
Why not. It wasn't like Trump and his family were private citizens or anything. The interesting thing is that booze and the Clown Car Administration, presented their "evidence" - and the first judge laughed it out of court. He then presented it to FISA - and they laughed it out of court. He then went judge shopping, found a friendly judge and got his warrant.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: mdgiles on March 05, 2017, 08:47:10 AM
Not "booze", but "Obozo".
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 09:14:02 AM
Quote from: walkstall on March 05, 2017, 05:19:05 AM

I think Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE) would change his mind if he was getting wiretapped.  I have had 8+ years of b o lying about thing. 



Exactly.  When have we known Bammy not to lie, deny and cover up?
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 05, 2017, 09:46:52 AM
Quote from: mdgiles on March 05, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Why not. It wasn't like Trump and his family were private citizens or anything. The interesting thing is that booze and the Clown Car Administration, presented their "evidence" - and the first judge laughed it out of court. He then presented it to FISA - and they laughed it out of court. He then went judge shopping, found a friendly judge and got his warrant.
Only a FISA court can issue this type of warrant.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 05, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: taxed on March 05, 2017, 07:46:13 AM
Billy nails it yet again...



This article is a must read and really brings you up to speed.  Here's the money shot I think:

Here is the big issue, IF the Tap(surveillance) was authorized because of Trumps connection with Russian Banking or finance, then FISA is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, FISA has to do with espionage by FOREIGN AGENTS...the correct warrant for Trumps supposed foreign banking would be a title 3 intercept for CRIMINAL violations

This is the wrong type of warrant for a CRIMINAL CASE, that is why I say Trump's rights were violated.

Also, like I said previously, when you run an INTERCEPT, you have to have a RETURN on your warrant execution, this means a full transcript of what is being recorded on these "taps", if there was no PROOF of wrong doing, the courts will order the Tap discontinued. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, they ran an intercept, the warrant expired or they had to report to the courts on the "return", the courts examined the "return" (In JUne?????) found no evidence of wrong doing AND REFUSED TO RENEW THE WARRANT....BUT IT WAS STILL UP AND RUNNING IN OCTOBER.

Running an illegal tap is a big no no, somebody WILL go to jail over that one.

Here's another little gem that lends credence to the probability of a "Tap" , Notice how the DETAILS of Trumps conversations with the Australians and with Mexico were "leaked" to the Press....Methinks the surveillance is ongoing, if so it further proof of the violations committed by whomever (we know who that is).

Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 05, 2017, 02:27:33 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on March 05, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Why not. It wasn't like Trump and his family were private citizens or anything. The interesting thing is that booze and the Clown Car Administration, presented their "evidence" - and the first judge laughed it out of court. He then presented it to FISA - and they laughed it out of court. He then went judge shopping, found a friendly judge and got his warrant.


There is a panel of Judges who review the FISA warrant, it is special from a regular title 3 intercept, I don't think there was a much Judge shopping as there was manufactured "probable cause" which has to be outlined in the affidavit in support of the warrant, real easy to lie if one is so inclined.

Here is what people are missing, if this was over Trumps Finances and foreign Banking then FISA is the WRONG TYPE OF WARRANT , the law states that such cannot be used for criminal violations of title 18 usc which would cover some type of bank fruad, financing money laundering etc.

Somebody really screwed up and should hang for it.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: topside on March 05, 2017, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on March 05, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Here is the big issue, IF the Tap(surveillance) was authorized because of Trumps connection with Russian Banking or finance, then FISA is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, FISA has to do with espionage by FOREIGN AGENTS...the correct warrant for Trumps supposed foreign banking would be a title 3 intercept for CRIMINAL violations

This is the wrong type of warrant for a CRIMINAL CASE, that is why I say Trump's rights were violated.

Also, like I said previously, when you run an INTERCEPT, you have to have a RETURN on your warrant execution, this means a full transcript of what is being recorded on these "taps", if there was no PROOF of wrong doing, the courts will order the Tap discontinued. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, they ran an intercept, the warrant expired or they had to report to the courts on the "return", the courts examined the "return" (In JUne?????) found no evidence of wrong doing AND REFUSED TO RENEW THE WARRANT....BUT IT WAS STILL UP AND RUNNING IN OCTOBER.

Running an illegal tap is a big no no, somebody WILL go to jail over that one.

Here's another little gem that lends credence to the probability of a "Tap" , Notice how the DETAILS of Trumps conversations with the Australians and with Mexico were "leaked" to the Press....Methinks the surveillance is ongoing, if so it further proof of the violations committed by whomever (we know who that is).

Billy ... you certainly show experience with this topic. Wouldn't you think that POTUS would have wanted to see the authorization on a tap on Trump Tower before he went public with the notion? if someone finds such a tap authorization, can the document be made public or does it have to go through some kind of process to be released? How long would you estimate that it would take for such a document to legally be made public - any idea?



Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: ldub23 on March 05, 2017, 03:48:32 PM
Sasse has always hated Trump. The media will of  course side with Obama so its  up to Reps to finally grow a spine and  fight.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: redbeard on March 05, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: Solar on March 05, 2017, 09:46:52 AM
Only a FISA court can issue this type of warrant.
Once denied they can take it to the appellate court that oversees FISA. All 3 of those judges are Clinton appointees! This is done through the DOJ. No way did this go on without Obama knowing.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 05, 2017, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: redbeard on March 05, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Once denied they can take it to the appellate court that oversees FISA. All 3 of those judges are Clinton appointees! This is done through the DOJ. No way did this go on without Obama knowing.
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this  :scared:
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Possum on March 05, 2017, 04:58:25 PM
Quote from: redbeard on March 05, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Once denied they can take it to the appellate court that oversees FISA. All 3 of those judges are Clinton appointees! This is done through the DOJ. No way did this go on without Obama knowing.
Gut feeling here is somehow valerie jarrett's moving into obama's house has something to do with this. Either to give him advise or make sure he keeps his mouth shut. Of course maybe he needs to keep an eye on her? But it does seem the dims are ready for panic mode.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: mdgiles on March 05, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this  :scared:
Doesn't matter, what ranks they close. Whoever leaked this, also leaked many of the particulars of the warrant requests. There are already a number of discussions on who, and what, can be criminally charged.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 05:23:48 PM
Regardless of what Bammy or Jarrett or Lynch did none of them will ever be charged or prosecuted. Just like the Clintons ... lie, deny and cover up. Secondly, Trump wasn't president at the time.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 05, 2017, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this  :scared:

Why the FISA court requests?
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: zewazir on March 05, 2017, 07:01:41 PM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 05:23:48 PM
Regardless of what Bammy or Jarrett or Lynch did none of them will ever be charged or prosecuted. Just like the Clintons ... lie, deny and cover up. Secondly, Trump wasn't president at the time.
He was the Republican nominated candidate for president, which makes wire tapping of his communications in Trump Tower that much more suspect. As others, I hope the evidence is there to back up the accusations. We all know the media will spin like jet turbines trying to deny. If the evidence is hard enough, they'll switch to justification.

I'm hoping a lot more than Obama will be implicated - as in a significant portion of the democratic party leadership. Be nice to put the boot to - if not the cuffs on - personalities like Pelosi & Schumer, in addition to Obama, Lynch, et.al.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 08:00:54 PM
Quote from: zewazir on March 05, 2017, 07:01:41 PM
He was the Republican nominated candidate for president, which makes wire tapping of his communications in Trump Tower that much more suspect. As others, I hope the evidence is there to back up the accusations. We all know the media will spin like jet turbines trying to deny. If the evidence is hard enough, they'll switch to justification.

I'm hoping a lot more than Obama will be implicated - as in a significant portion of the democratic party leadership. Be nice to put the boot to - if not the cuffs on - personalities like Pelosi & Schumer, in addition to Obama, Lynch, et.al.

IMHO, there might be all kinds of events that point to their responsibility, but the DEMS are never going to go down. Too much money and corruption behind them.  Sort of like Teddy Kennedy ... who admitted leaving the scene of an accident...he got a slap on the wrist and continued to serve as Senator of Massachusetts for years ... sort of like Hillary Clinton ... responsible for arming ISIS and 4 dead Americans, but she still ran for president.  Sort of like Bill Clinton who was impeached, but the Senate never voted to oust him. There will be all kinds of suspicions surrounding Bammy and cronies, but nothing will come of this. Nothing.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Cryptic Bert on March 05, 2017, 08:35:06 PM
Well, what do we know? There were supposedly two FISA requests. The first denied anfd the second granted. Presidents do not make FISA requests. That is left to the law enforcement agencies. However it would be hard to believe that the president would not be aware of the wiretapping of the Republican candidate for the presidency one month before the election. If Trump's phones were tapped they obviously didn't uncover anything of value because Obama's DoJ would have released the information or it would have been leaked to derail Trumps campaign. Did the tapping really happen? Well, considering all the pearl clutching and democrat hysteria over Russia I would not be surprised they convinced a FISA judge.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: taxed on March 05, 2017, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 08:00:54 PM
IMHO, there might be all kinds of events that point to their responsibility, but the DEMS are never going to go down. Too much money and corruption behind them.  Sort of like Teddy Kennedy ... who admitted leaving the scene of an accident...he got a slap on the wrist and continued to serve as Senator of Massachusetts for years ... sort of like Hillary Clinton ... responsible for arming ISIS and 4 dead Americans, but she still ran for president.  Sort of like Bill Clinton who was impeached, but the Senate never voted to oust him. There will be all kinds of suspicions surrounding Bammy and cronies, but nothing will come of this. Nothing.

Therefore it will never happen?
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 06, 2017, 05:55:39 AM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on March 05, 2017, 08:35:06 PM
Well, what do we know? There were supposedly two FISA requests. The first denied anfd the second granted. Presidents do not make FISA requests. That is left to the law enforcement agencies. However it would be hard to believe that the president would not be aware of the wiretapping of the Republican candidate for the presidency one month before the election. If Trump's phones were tapped they obviously didn't uncover anything of value because Obama's DoJ would have released the information or it would have been leaked to derail Trumps campaign. Did the tapping really happen? Well, considering all the pearl clutching and democrat hysteria over Russia I would not be surprised they convinced a FISA judge.
There you go Boo, if they'd found dirt on trump, we'd all be hearing the word Impeachment.
"convinced a FISA judge"
Which is the evidence they have and know the leftists fabricated, and or hid evidence and tricked a judge into signing it.
Either way, the law was broken and trump's 4th Amendment rights were violated through the heavy hand of govt.
The GOP let the Marxist slide over using the IRS as a political weapon because they are just as guilty as the dims in wanting to quash TEA, but this became personal for Trump and no amount of obfuscation on the part of either party is going to make this go away.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 06, 2017, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: topside on March 05, 2017, 03:35:47 PM
Billy ... you certainly show experience with this topic. Wouldn't you think that POTUS would have wanted to see the authorization on a tap on Trump Tower before he went public with the notion? if someone finds such a tap authorization, can the document be made public or does it have to go through some kind of process to be released? How long would you estimate that it would take for such a document to legally be made public - any idea?

I have a detailed Understanding how the DOJ works, for what its worth, back in the Day I had to deal with that idiot Eric Holder when he was the Chief USAO in charge of narcotic and organized crime in Washington DC. If we had title 3 intercepts, for the request to get to the Judge we first had to go thru him, needless to say one did not get such warrant easily. Running a pen register, which merely records numbers dial from a certain phone was about the limit of what you could get with him. A full blown "Tap" recording conversation was next to impossible. You had to get thru Holder then if he signed off on it he would have gone to his boss the Chief USAO....the next step being the AG himself. My understanding was that the AG was informed of all ACTIVE TITLE #3 WIRE TAPS IN THE WEEKLY BRIEFING!!!!!!! BUT these are criminal investigations.

My understand that with FISA, which are highly classified, is that results may be shared with THE PRESIDENTS OFFICE/NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR & Staff as some of the Intell for the Presidents daily Intel briefing/Weekly intell briefing COMES FROM THIS TYPE OF SURVEILLANCE!!!!!!!!

Digest that for a moment.

My Gut feeling is that SOMEBODY in the DOJ ordered a wire run on Trump, possibly for a "criminal violation" something to do with his business or banking in Russia This is plausible coz Trump had business dealings with the Russians (Not a crime) Once again, the affidavit in support of this warrant is ON FILE, with both the FBI, THE DOJ....has to be.  Now I'm also thinking the Probable cause was likely very flimsy or possibly manufactured. It sounds like nothing was found of a criminal nature. BUT it is AGAINST THE LAW to release the results of such investigation UNLESS IT TO THE SUSPECTS ATTORNEY....PRIVACY LAWS!!!!!!!! Not to mention slander, libel etc etc.

Rather than let it rest SOMEBODY in the DOJ ordered a FISA, to Tap Trump towers, FISA was likely refused, somebody went "Judge shopping" and got the approval. Again nothing was found.



Here is my summary:

Educated Guess is that Loretta Lynch ordered the criminal investigation into Trumps organization waaaaayyyyyy back when he announced his run for President. Trump was not President but he wasn't exactly an ordinary citizen, he had a lot of power an influence, such undertaking was not done lightly. Obama would not have to order anything, it was understood this would be done , just as a Mafia Chieftan doesn't have to order a murder, his subordinates know they better do it.

Now go back to what I said about the Presidents weekly and daily security Briefing. You can bet money that Obama knew about it.

Now how long before such can be verified.

My take is that it already has been verified and Somebody has the papers, ie the documents that prove it....either the MSM, Mark Lavin, or Trump's people. Like I said previously....THERE IS AN EXTENSIVE PAPER TRAIL WITH THESE TYPES OF WARRANTS and Investigative files. There are also shredders and garbage can fires.

The truth will come out and it will be real messy, probably for Trump as well as for the Dems, I'm thinking somebody will go to jail








Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 06, 2017, 06:44:51 AM
Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this  :scared:


THe FBI and the courts cannot "close ranks" there is too much of a paper trail. AND IT WILL COME To LIghT.

Here's a disturbing thought, what if it isn;t the FBI or even NSA doing the taps...what if it was a third party or FOREIGN PARTY who was CONTRACTED BY OBAMA/CLINTON to do this.

TREASON and SEDITION of the most high order.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: MichaelJ on March 06, 2017, 06:51:46 AM
What would really be ironic is if the Russians did it! Seriously though, the connection and paper trail will be hard to uncover considering the specifications for obtaining a FISA warrant (if they indeed have one) is highly secretive and likely to be justified as "national security" concerns by the Obama DOJ.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Billy's bayonet on March 06, 2017, 07:03:02 AM
Quote from: MichaelJ on March 06, 2017, 06:51:46 AM
What would really be ironic is if the Russians did it! Seriously though, the connection and paper trail will be hard to uncover considering the specifications for obtaining a FISA warrant (if they indeed have one) is highly secretive and likely to be justified as "national security" concerns by the Obama DOJ.


Its highly secretive unless you have a right to know/top secret clearance etc etc.

There IS a record of it, when you get a warrant ANY type of Warrant, one copy stays in the Files with the case agent (FBI) one copy stays in the files of the APPROVING US ATTORNEY, and one copy Stays with Courts who are supposed to be independent.

Just so you know, those copies are not the property of the aforementioned custodians they are the GOVERNMENTS PROPERTY, and can be (and will be) released to those GOVERNMENT officials with the proper clearances....or in this case with the proper court orders/subpeonea's...coz people will be going to jail over this.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: je_freedom on March 06, 2017, 08:00:01 AM
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on March 06, 2017, 06:44:51 AM
Here's a disturbing thought, what if it isn;t the FBI or even NSA doing the taps...what if it was a third party or FOREIGN PARTY who was CONTRACTED BY OBAMA/CLINTON to do this.

TREASON and SEDITION of the most high order.

In other words, business as usual.

For a couple of decades now, the Echelon program has been operational.
In the USA, it is illegal for the CIA to spy on Americans.
In Great Britain, it is illegal for MI-6 to spy on the British.
How to get around that?
Have each country's agency spy on the other country's citizens.

There's a huge communications node at Menwith Hill, England.
That's where much of the intercepting is done.

Plus, it doesn't have to be a government to do the spying.
Companies like Google, whose motto is "Don't be evil"
are well-connected, both to the internet, and to the banksters.

The banksters usually admit into their clique only
descendants of the families who have been in their clique for generations,
but they do admit newcomers like Google and Facebook,
because they bring into the fold
new technologies that can enhance the banksters' power.
You can check out: 
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/news-board/google-facebook-twitter-distort-news/
to see some of what Google, Facebook, and Twitter
have been doing in service to the banksters.
Title: Re: Trump charges Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in Oct
Post by: Solar on March 06, 2017, 08:11:25 AM
Quote from: je_freedom on March 06, 2017, 08:00:01 AM
In other words, business as usual.

For a couple of decades now, the Echelon program has been operational.
In the USA, it is illegal for the CIA to spy on Americans.
In Great Britain, it is illegal for MI-6 to spy on the British.
How to get around that?
Have each country's agency spy on the other country's citizens.

There's a huge communications node at Menwith Hill, England.
That's where much of the intercepting is done.

Plus, it doesn't have to be a government to do the spying.
Companies like Google, whose motto is "Don't be evil"
are well-connected, both to the internet, and to the banksters.

The banksters usually admit into their clique only
descendants of the families who have been in their clique for generations,
but they do admit newcomers like Google and Facebook,
because they bring into the fold
new technologies that can enhance the banksters' power.
You can check out: 
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/news-board/google-facebook-twitter-distort-news/
to see some of what Google, Facebook, and Twitter
have been doing in service to the banksters.
Based on what we know so far, Jarrette kept it in House and didn't want to run the risk of leaks from outside the country.