Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
I didn't say its coming in legally.  I said it is comingin 95% via air and sea.  The wall cant stop that.

You know I said that so not sure what you are trying to do here.

You actually did write "legally" but I figured it was a mistake. But your point was that the ground smuggling was only a small fraction.

Again with the unsupported claims.  Here a few facts to chew on - note that this is actually related to the topic we're discussing:

QuoteBack in the 1970s, the heroin on U.S. streets was the "black tar" variety, and much of it came from southeast Asia. In 2010, 80 percent of the heroin in the world came from poppy fields in Afghanistan, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

So when Portman said that most of the heroin in America comes from Mexico's border, we were skeptical.

Portman, it turns out, has done his homework. The Drug Enforcement Administration's National Drug Threat Assessment of 2015 says that Mexico is the primary supplier of heroin to the United States.

"Southeast Asia was once the dominant supplier of heroin in the United States, but Southeast Asian heroin is now rarely detected in U.S. markets," the report state. "Mexico and, to a lesser extent, Colombia dominate the U.S. heroin market, because of their proximity, established transportation and distribution infrastructure, and ability to satisfy U.S. heroin demand."

The report also says that Mexican "transnational criminal organizations," (the DEA's term for drug-dealing gangs) "pose the greatest criminal drug threat to the United States; no other group is currently positioned to challenge them."

The National Drug Threat report notes that Colombian gangs were traditionally the suppliers of wholesale cocaine and heroin to Mexican and Dominican groups. But cartels in Mexico are ramping up their roles on the supply side -- opium production in Mexico increased by 50 percent in 2014.

Mexican labs also produce fentanyl, a synthetic painkiller that is 80 to 100 times stronger than morphine. Fentanyl is sometimes mixed with heroin or substituted for heroin, and the DEA reports more than 700 overdoses attributed to fentanyl between late 2013 and early 2015.

Drugs get past the U.S. borders mostly "by land, not by sea," said Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, in the same March 8 hearing with Portman. And a 2015 Washington Post series on the surge of heroin puts the border detection rate at a scant 1.5 percent.

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2016/mar/14/rob-portman/most-heroin-us-comes-over-mexican-border/

Read carefully - much of our drugs are coming over the border by land. The more we stop coming in by land, the more we can put resources against other access methods.

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 10:26:17 AM
Only name calling I see is you calling me a lib troll.

I also see me dominating him in the argument.

Thanks for responding to the content.

"You are a joke, and in a one on one debate I would annihilate you.  You aren't a republican.  You are basically a fascist."

Better brush up on your dictionary skills.

Quote from: topside on March 29, 2017, 12:12:57 PM
You actually did write "legally" but I figured it was a mistake. But your point was that the ground smuggling was only a small fraction.

Again with the unsupported claims.  Here a few facts to chew on - note that this is actually related to the topic we're discussing:

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2016/mar/14/rob-portman/most-heroin-us-comes-over-mexican-border/

Read carefully - much of our drugs are coming over the border by land. The more we stop coming in by land, the more we can put resources against other access methods.

Of course some are, but as I said, most are coming through other means since stepping up border patrol.

Often at the border they will just throw the drugs over a fence and someone will pick them up.

You cannot stop entry of drugs into this country.  Period.  What you can do is legalize all drugs and as a result take the power away from criminals.  Legalize, tax, and regulate and use proceeds to help with treatment.

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 11:39:01 AM
Re: Trump's border wall funding will likely have to wait
« Reply #23 on: Today at 11:02:40 AM »
Quote
Quote from: blake allyn on Today at 10:17:56 AM
Your analogy is embarrassing.  Under it, every country should have a wall.  We should have won along the Atlantic seaboard, with Canada, and on the pacific.  The ranchers along the border have mocked the wall as pointless.
Are Canadians flooding the border to enter the US illegally? Your analogies are something I'd expect from an ignorant child.

No silly billy.  We haven't colonized them and destroyed their societies.  But what about the oceans?  Cant terrorists get through Canada or drugs, which 95 percent are coming by sea?  Silly billy.
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If you are concerned about crime you would focus on the fact that the US commits more murders then any other country on earth.  Immigrants comitt crimes at lesser rates then Americans.  Many immigrants fly right into airports.
Dio you not agree, we are a nation of laws? So does it not make sense that if one are of our nation is seeing a huge influx of lawbreakers, we do all we can to stop it?
A fence is the first rational move, after that, security, law enforcement.
I agree we are nation of laws.  But thats irrelevant.  The issue isn't whether we should stop illegal immigration the issue is how.  A wall will do literally nothing to stem it.  As have been factually pointed out to you.  When it comes to drugs it will literally have zero effect.
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There is crime in every town in America.  Does every house have a wall around it?  Should every?

Do they have locks on their doors?
Yes, as do the southern ranchers.  Do they all have walls around their homes?  Obv not.  You equate a lock with a wall?  Hmmm
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DO you know why immigrants are coming from central America?  Do you know why parents are sending ten year old girls to escape?  Do you know what a refugee is?

Yes, because the Marxist party baited them with welfare.
There is no marxist party and immgrants have been coming here before even the new deal.  But as your answer indicates, you have no clue why they are coming and what is exacerbting that desire.  A simple look at the history of the region and modern day policies, such as the Honduras coup of a few years back, which you had no comment on cause you nothing about it.

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Do you know at least 70% of them are considered refugees under international law?

Did you know that international law means dog shit where our Constitution is concerned?
There is no contradiction as I am unaware the constitution has spoken on this issue.  Refugees are not illegal immigrants.  For example, if that were true, you would want all Cubans out of Florida.  They were legitimate refugees escaping oppression as are those from central America.  Under that warped logic, the turks should force their refugees back in to Syria be slaughtered.  Such a horrible code to live by.

Quote
Do you know that the US has military bases all over the world in other countries which destroy the environment and often rape young girls like in Asia?  DO you know US companies employ children in central America to make baseballs and harvest sugar for ten cents a day?  Do you know how many refugees countries in the Middle East have take cause we have started wars with them?  How many refugees did Iraq war create?  Who took them in?  You know about the coup in Honduras?  Do you know about the 50 military coups in the 80s that destroyed Central America.  The CIA paying drug lords.  Do you know how we force them to buy our tobacco under threat of pulling another coup as Kerry did?  Even though it kills far more people then drugs?  Where is your concern for the opioid epidemic started by American companies right here?  Wall them off?  You know the role banks playing in the drug trade?  You know most drugs come in via ship or plane?  You know immigrants comitt less crimes then whites and blacks?
 
POP! Hey Jim, that's a foul ball right out into leftist field. Yes Bob, you could say it had progressive written all over it.
No substantive remark cause you have no clue about any of it.  All you know is to call anyone you disagree with a marxist.  But you have no hsitorical knowledge, no insights, and without this little pond youd be a laughing stock.
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You are a joke, and in a one on one debate I would annihilate you.  You aren't a republican.  You are basically a fascist.
ROFL!!! Son, bring it on, I eat millennial like yo for snacks. But I think it's obvious you've lost this debate considering you ended pissed off and resorted to calling names.
There was no name calling outside of calling you a fascist to which you called me what a lib tard?  If I am guilty of it as are you.  No sorry it was marxist.  Marixist=Facist.  If you eat millenials for breakfast you must be a cannibal.

WTF Is this crap, who were you quoting?

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 11:20:40 AM
Start a thread....just you and I one on one?  Lets do this.

BTW I am not a liberal and hated Obama.

OK, green energy, tell me why green energy is superior to coal, oil, Ng, nuclear, hydro, all sources currently in use.

Quote from: Solar on March 29, 2017, 12:33:57 PM
WTF Is this crap, who were you quoting?

I replied in green to your lame responses to me.  Sorry the formatting looks so bad.

One on debate solar?  Just our own thread?

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 12:36:54 PM
I replied in green to your lame responses to me.  Sorry the formatting looks so bad.

One on debate solar?  Just our own thread?

I gave you a topic just above your post, take your best shot.

Quote from: Solar on March 29, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
I gave you a topic just above your post, take your best shot.

COol topic.  I'll start a thread.

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 10:25:05 AM
The opioids are in part leading to the increase in heroin use.  They are interconneted. Heroin is not coming in through the border.  Its coming in legally in cars, ships and planes.

How would you know? Unless you are working in the DEA, Customs, border patrol or some other LEO agency tasked with drug interdiction/enforcement how would you know..... AND DO NOT QUOTE ME SOME REPORT BY SOME SO CALLED "NEWS" AGENCY. Quote me a credible Law Enforcement source such as the DEA or FBI.

While it is true that drugs to include opiods are smuggled into the country ILLEGALLY thru a variety of transport to include ship, plane, sea container and even old Soviet era submarines. HUMAN MULES smuggling drugs across the SOUTHWESTERN Border (And some from Canada) account for a significant portion of drugs brought into this country.

You are aware, are you not, that there is a narco terrorist war going on in Mexico with various cartels racking up a body count of about 60,000 known dead over the past few years...how many are still out buried in the desert yet undiscovered is anyone's guess.

These cartels CONTROL everything that comes across the SOUTHWESTERN border, drugs, money, guns and especially illegals....everybody pays. One way to pay is to carry a "package".

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 07:19:41 AM
SO you are saying build walls between the upper east side and queens?

There's a difference between local US regions and a third world crap hole trying to invade us.

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The analogy is flawed.

No it isn't.

Quote
  If I owned a rich home

Like Bernie Sanders?

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in bad part of the state,

How can you tell if part of a state is "bad"?

Quote
which is odd zoning, but lets assume.  I would be far more worried about an American committing a crime there then a 12year old and his mother fleeing Honduras.

I'll let the Rockville girl's parents know...

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As I said, there are better ways to stop illegal immigration. 

I agree, but then  people say I get all Hitler like when I post my solutions...

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I would be much worried about Monsanto putting cancer in my air.

Cancer floats in the air?  You really are gullible.

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 09:42:53 AM
The drugs being put in our children are from Pharma.  Or have you not been following the opioid epidemic?

Shall we build a wall around big pharma?

Why is there an epidemic?

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
I didn't say its coming in legally.  I said it is comingin 95% via air and sea.  The wall cant stop that.

You know I said that so not sure what you are trying to do here.

Yes, you did say coming in legally; and I quote:

"
I wrote: The opioids are in part leading to the increase in heroin use.  They are interconneted.  Heroin is not coming in through the border. Its coming in legally in cars, ships and planes.

So ... if you'd provide some links to support your claim that heroin isn't coming across the border that would be welcomed. I provided a link stating that smuggling of heroin by the Mexican cartel is on the rise and therefore IS coming across the border illegally.

You asked what I am trying to do here?  I'm giving you pertinent information that negates your claim that heroin isn't coming across the border.

Secondly, the primary aspect of the wall is to STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.  You cut down on illegals coming across, you impact the coyotes and the Mexican cartel; thus you impact smuggling drugs across the border. 

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
Your analogy is embarrassing.  Under it, every country should have a wall.

Well, those countries would have a wall to keep their people in and from trying to enter our country, hence why we need a wall to keep them out.  We're the best country on the planet, so I get it, but we have to keep these people out.

Quote
  We should have won along the Atlantic seaboard, with Canada, and on the pacific.  The ranchers along the border have mocked the wall as pointless.

If you are concerned about crime you would focus on the fact that the US commits more murders then any other country on earth.  Immigrants comitt crimes at lesser rates then Americans.  Many immigrants fly right into airports.

Why are people swimming shark infested waters and rivers with alligators to come to our country with more crime?  I thought they're looking for a better way of life?

Quote
There is crime in every town in America.

Wrong.  It's clear you don't live in the US with statements like that.

Quote
Does every house have a wall around it?  Should every? 

Just those of us who can afford the extra security.  It keeps the riff-raff out.

Quote
DO you know why immigrants are coming from central America?

Because they're being incentivized to come here.

Quote
  Do you know why parents are sending ten year old girls to escape?  Do you know what a refugee is?  Do you know at least 70% of them are considered refugees under international law?  Do you know that the US has military bases all over the world in other countries which destroy the environment and often rape young girls like in Asia?  DO you know US companies employ children in central America to make baseballs and harvest sugar for ten cents a day?  Do you know how many refugees countries in the Middle East have take cause we have started wars with them?  How many refugees did Iraq war create?  Who took them in?  You know about the coup in Honduras?  Do you know about the 50 military coups in the 80s that destroyed Central America.  The CIA paying drug lords.  Do you know how we force them to buy our tobacco under threat of pulling another coup as Kerry did?  Even though it kills far more people then drugs?  Where is your concern for the opioid epidemic started by American companies right here?  Wall them off?  You know the role banks playing in the drug trade?  You know most drugs come in via ship or plane?  You know immigrants comitt less crimes then whites and blacks?

Why are they coming to your country with all our crime?  You said we have have the most.  Why would they want that? 

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You are a joke, and in a one on one debate I would annihilate you.  You aren't a republican.  You are basically a fascist.

Whoever told you that you're special lied to you.  You've failed on every post so far.  I'm going to politely ask that you start doing better.

Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 29, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
I like your idea of withdrawing foreign aide to Mexico and others to pay for the wall, but I'm not so sure that the amount would equal what is needed to pay for the wall.  Certainly drastically reducing the amount of aid we give to other countries is a starting point. There are other places to recoup some of the money needed; the United States gives approximately $8 billion yearly in mandatory payments as an example.

To not fund the wall now is going to be a huge mistake and it could very well hurt those running for re-election in 2018.

http://us-foreign-aid.insidegov.com/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/06/16/america-pay-way-too-much-for-united-nations.html

Personally I like the idea of taxing remittance. since a lot of this money is made illegally, cash payout, off the books etc. It isn't being taxed or even recorded in the first place....then there are the criminal enterprises who move a lot of money this way through a process called "smurfing" ....less than $10,000 transactions.

Quote from: blake allyn on March 29, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
Of course some are, but as I said, most are coming through other means since stepping up border patrol.

Often at the border they will just throw the drugs over a fence and someone will pick them up.

You cannot stop entry of drugs into this country.  Period.  What you can do is legalize all drugs and as a result take the power away from criminals.  Legalize, tax, and regulate and use proceeds to help with treatment.

Are you okay or is the Oxycontin kicking the crap out of you...?

First you say it's an "epidemic" in earlier post now we have to make iT legal so you can "take the power away from the criminals".