Quote from: Dr_Watt on May 05, 2011, 02:11:42 PM
NO, NO, NO! You've got it all wrong!

The U.S. Navy Seal who takes out Osama bin Laden is no different than the Jihadists who hacked Nicholas Berg's and Daniel Purls (and many, many more) heads off!

There IS no difference! (at least to Doughboy there isn't!) ::)

-Dr Watt

Boy if you aren't flailing at windmills. 

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:23:46 PM
Boy if you aren't flailing at windmills. 

Would you feel worse for torturing a bad guy who was going to kill your family member, or for the bad guy if you ended up having to get a little rough with him?

Quote from: taxed on May 05, 2011, 02:25:51 PM
Would you feel worse for torturing a bad guy who was going to kill your family member, or for the bad guy if you ended up having to get a little rough with him?

I would torture the bad guy.  I would do whatever I had to do to save my family.  We're not talking about individual actions here. We're talking about policy.  If it is the policy of this nation to decry torture as inhuman, then we should not use it.  If waterboarding is not torture (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then fine.  It's not torture.  So if some other country does it to our guys, we have no basis to gripe.

I have never been waterboarded.  I don't know if it's torture or not.  I believe "enhanced interrogation techniques" can be very effective and  have been.  Loss of sleep, noise, harassment of whatever kind;  all fine with me.  So is waterboarding, as far as I am concerned.  If it's not torture.  Putting people on the rack is not fine with me.  And I am not saying we do that, but if we do, then we just need to shut up about other countries' methods of interrogation. 

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:37:34 PM
I would torture the bad guy.  I would do whatever I had to do to save my family.  We're not talking about individual actions here. We're talking about policy.  If it is the policy of this nation to decry torture as inhuman, then we should not use it.  If waterboarding is not torture (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then fine.  It's not torture.  So if some other country does it to our guys, we have no basis to gripe.

I have never been waterboarded.  I don't know if it's torture or not.  I believe "enhanced interrogation techniques" can be very effective and  have been.  Loss of sleep, noise, harassment of whatever kind;  all fine with me.  So is waterboarding, as far as I am concerned.  If it's not torture.  Putting people on the rack is not fine with me.  And I am not saying we do that, but if we do, then we just need to shut up about other countries' methods of interrogation. 

So then you are against what Hussein did to glean information from the enemy to get OBL?

Quote from: Solar on May 05, 2011, 02:39:16 PM
So then you are against what Hussein did to glean information from the enemy to get OBL?

I wasn't aware the president did anything to anybody to get OBL. 

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:37:34 PM
I would torture the bad guy.  I would do whatever I had to do to save my family.  We're not talking about individual actions here. We're talking about policy.  If it is the policy of this nation to decry torture as inhuman, then we should not use it.  If waterboarding is not torture (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then fine.  It's not torture.  So if some other country does it to our guys, we have no basis to gripe.

I have never been waterboarded.  I don't know if it's torture or not.  I believe "enhanced interrogation techniques" can be very effective and  have been.  Loss of sleep, noise, harassment of whatever kind;  all fine with me.  So is waterboarding, as far as I am concerned.  If it's not torture.  Putting people on the rack is not fine with me.  And I am not saying we do that, but if we do, then we just need to shut up about other countries' methods of interrogation. 

Well thought out.  Thanks.

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:42:02 PM
I wasn't aware the president did anything to anybody to get OBL. 

Yes, water boarding was used.

Quote from: Solar on May 05, 2011, 02:49:37 PM
Yes, water boarding was used.

The president didn't do it, if it was used.  Like I said, it's FINE with me if it's used if it's not torture.  So let it be acceptable.  If it's acceptable for us to use, then it's acceptable for everybody else to use it, too.  That's all I am saying. 

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
The president didn't do it, if it was used.  Like I said, it's FINE with me if it's used if it's not torture.  So let it be acceptable.  If it's acceptable for us to use, then it's acceptable for everybody else to use it, too.  That's all I am saying. 

I agree, I wish the terrorists used it instead of beheading, but I'm just funny that way.

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
The president didn't do it, if it was used.  Like I said, it's FINE with me if it's used if it's not torture.  So let it be acceptable.  If it's acceptable for us to use, then it's acceptable for everybody else to use it, too.  That's all I am saying. 

I guess a point I am indirectly trying to make, and failing, is we are far evolved, so waterboarding or trying to save lives by any other interogation means doesn't make us less evolved, while they torture our troops like they would their women...  It is an apples to oranges comparison.

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:23:46 PM
Boy if you aren't flailing at windmills.

Not really.

Just restating what YOU said...

Here is a direct quote!

We just should be willing to tolerate that which we dish out.  If water boarding is acceptable for us to do to our enemies, then it's acceptable for our enemies to do to us even if we don't think their reasons are good enough. 

BTW, I am completely at a loss as to how you equate waterboarding (under strict safety guidelines with a physician present) to hacking a helpless and bound victim's head off with a rusty machete.

-Dr Watt

Quote from: doughboy on May 05, 2011, 02:37:34 PM
I would torture the bad guy.  I would do whatever I had to do to save my family.  We're not talking about individual actions here. We're talking about policy.  If it is the policy of this nation to decry torture as inhuman, then we should not use it.  If waterboarding is not torture (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then fine.  It's not torture.  So if some other country does it to our guys, we have no basis to gripe.

I have never been water boarded.  I don't know if it's torture or not.  I believe "enhanced interrogation techniques" can be very effective and  have been.  Loss of sleep, noise, harassment of whatever kind;  all fine with me.  So is waterboarding, as far as I am concerned.  If it's not torture.  Putting people on the rack is not fine with me.  And I am not saying we do that, but if we do, then we just need to shut up about other countries' methods of interrogation.

Odd. Some people are all for torture - if it's not too torturous. Me, I say; "in for a penny, in for a pound". Once we put torture on the table, the only rule become effectiveness. Water boarding for those willing to talk, bamboo slivers under the fingernails for the "hard core". Now understand, hopefully we never have to go the "Rack/Iron Maiden/Red Hot Irons" route, but the terrorist - especially the terrorist - should never be assured - beforehand - that those aren't further down the list.

Quote from: Solar on May 04, 2011, 01:37:12 PM
I have asked this question over the years, merely as a method for some to take a cold hard look at themselves.
I'm always surprised at the answers, particularly from women, they can be brutal.

Scenario:You are in the desert, miles from civilization,your loved ones has just been kidnapped by two scumbags that plan on killing them, but you managed to drag one from the car as it drove out into the desert.
You have no cell phone and no time to go for help.

How far are you willing to go to save your loved one?

For my loved, I will go as far, as brutal and without hesitation!

Quote from: U_Kay on May 05, 2011, 05:07:11 PM

For my loved, I will go as far, as brutal and without hesitation!

Bingo Kay!!!
I had hoped that those that take issue with a tool of gleaning vital information, might try and put themselves in the shoes of those in danger.
If my son were captured by the enemy, an enemy that has no issue with torture and beheading, I would hope that we are using every tool at our disposal to get him back.

If not, I would encourage him not to join the Military.

Quote from: mdgiles on May 05, 2011, 05:00:32 PM
Odd. Some people are all for torture - if it's not too torturous. Me, I say; "in for a penny, in for a pound". Once we put torture on the table, the only rule become effectiveness. Water boarding for those willing to talk, bamboo slivers under the fingernails for the "hard core". Now understand, hopefully we never have to go the "Rack/Iron Maiden/Red Hot Irons" route, but the terrorist - especially the terrorist - should never be assured - beforehand - that those aren't further down the list.

Okay. But when (and if) our enemies do it to our guys, you will have forfeited your right to object to it.