Are we actually watching this 'Made For TV' plot and accepting it as is?
Last season and the season before, etc, the Marxist never had to deal with a budget, he was given more than he wanted in a CR (Continuing Resolution) and complaints fell on deaf ears.
Congress (mostly GOP) helped the Marxist rack up the highest debt of any POTUS in history, more debt than all the previous Presidents combined.

This season we have a new star character playing the part of POTUS and the writers (Congress) suddenly decide to create a new plot twist, they threw in....wait for it.... Yes, a Budget!

OK, maybe not a real budget, those require living within one's means, but instead of forcing POTUS to accept all of their unwanted pork, they tell POTUS "Take it or leave it", and no, we're not going to let you fulfill your campaign promises!
So, what should our new character do? He could refuse to sign their budget, he could align with the Conservatives and have the backing and support of the nation?
Or will he fold and act like the lib we all knew he was from day one?

Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2017, 06:25:13 AM
...  he could align with the Conservatives and have the backing and support of the nation?

Enlightening history Solar - thank you. I always wondered how BO could proceed without a budget - he just had enough in the CR to cast his spells.

Pretend with me for a moment. Suppose he aligns with conservatives and also stays on-message regarding his campaign promises. Also suppose that all the Pubs line up behind the budget. It seems that it still would fail in the Senate if you need 60 votes to pass the budget.

I dug around a little more. I think this is what's going on. Correct me if you think otherwise.

Normally, the senate can't stop discussion (ever) on most bills - stopping the discussion and taking a vote is called "cloture" and the Senate requires a bill pass by at least 60 votes in a cloture circumstance. A fillibuster (if I read correctly) is just the action of calling off discussion and getting 60 votes to kill something off. For example, if the Dims fillibuster the SCOTUS nomination, they just call off any discussion and call for a vote - then vote him out. I don't know how the Senate changes that rule if the Dims do it ... like today. But that's another rabbit hole.

However, there was a bill voted in called the "H.R.7130 - Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974" that I think still stands. It sets a timetable that limits how long the Dims can prolong discussion - basically, only a majority (51 votes) are required in the Senate after this date. I found the timetable, aligned to the fiscal year at:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoundment_Control_Act_of_1974/Title_III#Sec._300.

So this is probably what will happen if POTUS and the RINOs don't give away the farm. A CR will go in-place and we'll run on that for awhile. Congress will go through the process on the budget and the Dims will debate it tooth-and-nail ad nausea. But when Sept. 30 rolls around, the Pubs will vote a budget in.

If POTUS is true to some of the promises, border wall, defund PP, defund NPR (did I tell you that this was my favorite - yeah, about ten times), he'll have to wait it out until October. Then he moves into more open waters.

Here's the secondary question. Why does Schumer think he holds power by requiring the border wall and PP defund be taken out of the budget? I guess because it's perceived that waiting damages the WH in some way? Wait, I say. Tell the American people in plain words what's going on and just wait them out. Do a talk on Sunday PM via the outlets so many can listen in (directly) and lay out why we have to wait. Also explain why the Dims are wasting our time and tax dollars - and how it can be fixed by putting more Pubs in Congress so they can act more efficiently. Just put Congress on ACA and send them home until Sept - without pay. I so like that idea even if it isn't doable. Most of the nonsense would just stop for awhile.

Quote from: topside on April 04, 2017, 08:46:20 AM
Enlightening history Solar - thank you. I always wondered how BO could proceed without a budget - he just had enough in the CR to cast his spells.

Pretend with me for a moment. Suppose he aligns with conservatives and also stays on-message regarding his campaign promises. Also suppose that all the Pubs line up behind the budget. It seems that it still would fail in the Senate if you need 60 votes to pass the budget.

I dug around a little more. I think this is what's going on. Correct me if you think otherwise.

Normally, the senate can't stop discussion (ever) on most bills - stopping the discussion and taking a vote is called "cloture" and the Senate requires a bill pass by at least 60 votes in a cloture circumstance. A fillibuster (if I read correctly) is just the action of calling off discussion and getting 60 votes to kill something off. For example, if the Dims fillibuster the SCOTUS nomination, they just call off any discussion and call for a vote - then vote him out. I don't know how the Senate changes that rule if the Dims do it ... like today. But that's another rabbit hole.

However, there was a bill voted in called the "H.R.7130 - Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974" that I think still stands. It sets a timetable that limits how long the Dims can prolong discussion - basically, only a majority (51 votes) are required in the Senate after this date. I found the timetable, aligned to the fiscal year at:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoundment_Control_Act_of_1974/Title_III#Sec._300.

So this is probably what will happen if POTUS and the RINOs don't give away the farm. A CR will go in-place and we'll run on that for awhile. Congress will go through the process on the budget and the Dims will debate it tooth-and-nail ad nausea. But when Sept. 30 rolls around, the Pubs will vote a budget in.

If POTUS is true to some of the promises, border wall, defund PP, defund NPR (did I tell you that this was my favorite - yeah, about ten times), he'll have to wait it out until October. Then he moves into more open waters.

Here's the secondary question. Why does Schumer think he holds power by requiring the border wall and PP defund be taken out of the budget? I guess because it's perceived that waiting damages the WH in some way? Wait, I say. Tell the American people in plain words what's going on and just wait them out. Do a talk on Sunday PM via the outlets so many can listen in (directly) and lay out why we have to wait. Also explain why the Dims are wasting our time and tax dollars - and how it can be fixed by putting more Pubs in Congress so they can act more efficiently. Just put Congress on ACA and send them home until Sept - without pay. I so like that idea even if it isn't doable. Most of the nonsense would just stop for awhile.

The GOP Establishment/Marxists are, for lack of description, Dims.
Once you wrap your brain around that, everything else falls into place.
Yes, the enemy is within.

Anyone still question the chances of our holding onto the Senate in 2018?  Perhaps even the House?  I know its early in the game here, but if this is any indication as to what's to come ... things are looking very promising.

So much for the 'Art of the Deal': Trump and GOP leaders are about to cave on the budget

... "Republicans are continuing to preemptively surrender their leverage on budget battles and evince an incorrigible dread of government shutdowns, even though they now control the White House. Rather than pound the lectern demanding that our values be upheld in this budget — that no taxpayer funding be used for Planned Parenthood, that the president's immigration order be codified by defunding refugee resettlement, that the border wall be funded — the only thing Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has gotten animated about these days is the need to avoid a government shutdown. As such, Democrats have told Republicans that the only way to avoid a shutdown is for them to agree to their spending levels and policies. Republicans are readily agreeing.

Let's take a trip down memory lane when Democrats had full control over all three branches of government in the spring of 2009. They had already voted on major priorities, such as the bailouts, stimulus, expansion of government health care, and cap and trade. Then, on March 10, 2009, they had their first budget deadline and got what they wanted. And that was before Arlen Specter became a Democrat and gave them a 60th vote to break the filibuster....

...Fast-forward eight years and Republicans should have the same leverage Democrats did with Obama. Yet, they have failed to enact a single conservative priority with their first 100 days' political capital. Now, the budget deadline is the last opportunity to use that political capital to score some wins on the border fence, refugees, and Planned Parenthood, and yet they are allowing a Democrat minority to own them....


- See more at: https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/04/so-much-for-the-art-of-the-deal-trump-and-gop-leaders-are-about-to-cave-on-the-budget#sthash.fC4mIrrT.dpuf

Like I've been saying, the Establishment RINO/Marxists are the Dim party, they are indistinguishable from one another.
The only people left we can trust is TEA and trump foolishly ignores them as he heads to a certain demise as a one term Pol.

Quote from: Solar on April 05, 2017, 05:58:31 AM
Like I've been saying, the Establishment RINO/Marxists are the Dim party, they are indistinguishable from one another.
The only people left we can trust is TEA and trump foolishly ignores them as he heads to a certain demise as a one term Pol.

Absolutely.  He is sucking any life left of the Republican party just as he smoldered any decency of the GOP during the debates and convention.  TEA is still this country's only hope.  I don't believe he foolishly ignores them, he is deliberately trying to make them irrelevant and incompetent.  IMHO Trump is going to be lucky to finish his first term. Will Pence walk along the middle or veer to the left?  So far, his visit to the Freedom Caucus indicates he'll veer to the left. I have always viewed Pence as a moderate and I was quite surprised when Trump appointed him...now I know why.

Might consider combining this with the Trump Budget thread.

There was a reply in that thread posted on 4/4 that discussed the budget process and why we shouldn't have to cave if we'll wait. It has details of the process and identifies outcomes based on the laws / rules. I'd like some feedback on that one to be added to what Solar provided (thanks Solar).

Quote from: topside on April 05, 2017, 10:55:59 AM
There was a reply in that thread posted on 4/4 that discussed the budget process and why we shouldn't have to cave if we'll wait. It has details of the process and identifies outcomes based on the laws / rules. I'd like some feedback on that one to be added to what Solar provided (thanks Solar).

Good idea. it is after all, the same subject still and little has changed.
As to my contribution, I only scratched the surface, if I go further, we'd have to move this to Finance.

But my main question, which I tried to answer and carefully support in the 4/4 post, is why are the Pubs negotiating at all with Schumer when they can wait until September and get everything they want in the budget - including the border wall funding and PP unfund.

Quote from: topside on April 05, 2017, 12:21:06 PM
But my main question, which I tried to answer and carefully support in the 4/4 post, is why are the Pubs negotiating at all with Schumer when they can wait until September and get everything they want in the budget - including the border wall funding and PP unfund.

It can't be because he wants to work with Shumer. No body likes Shumer ... just the look of him sets my hair on end. I hear that even his own dog doesn't like him.

Quote from: topside on April 05, 2017, 12:23:00 PM
It can't be because he wants to work with Shumer. No body likes Shumer ... just the look of him sets my hair on end. I hear that even his own dog doesn't like him.

BTW:

Do you know how you tell which one likes you better - your wife or your dog?

Lock them in the trunk of your car for four hours then hit the electronic open. See which one runs to you and licks your face.

I tried it ... sure enough.

There you go BooMan ... top that today!

Quote from: topside on April 05, 2017, 12:25:50 PM
BTW:

Do you know how you tell which one likes you better - your wife or your dog?

Lock them in the trunk of your car for four hours then hit the electronic open. See which one runs to you and licks your face.

I tried it ... sure enough.

There you go BooMan ... top that today!

Who's winning this debate?

Quote from: Solar on April 05, 2017, 01:08:14 PM
Who's winning this debate?

No contest - I always lose to Boo in the end. His humor is usually clever and original. But I've got to do my part to entice him. We all could use a little levity after seeing Trump turn left the last couple weeks.

Quote from: topside on April 05, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
No contest - I always lose to Boo in the end. His humor is usually clever and original. But I've got to do my part to entice him. We all could use a little levity after seeing Trump turn left the last couple weeks.

Oh, I was referring to the two quotes you had with yourself.