The Problem with Conservatives

Conservatives believe in Freedom.  Individuality.  Personal Responsibility.  To Conservatives, the ends DO NOT justify the means; the path to a just result must be honorable as well.  Lying and cheating to achieve a political result, stain the result.  To us, our 'principles' matter. What we believe defines us individually.  We are against gay marriage, not because we hate gay people, but because we think the traditional family ought to have a recognized place in society.  We think that Laws matter.  You cannot enter America illegally and expect to take advantage of the many generous social programs offered to the disadvantaged.  You should not be able to steal the hard-earned tax dollars of those of us who work for a living while there are deserving, long-suffering Americans waiting in line.

Since Conservatives believe all of us are all individuals, we 'agree to disagree', and still love and respect those who are willing to debate an issue on philosophical terms.  'Winning' isn't everything, its how you play the game.  Problem is, those on the left do believe the ends justify the means.  It's okay to lie, steal, cheat and destroy on the path to Liberal Nirvana.  You can lie to cover up the transgressions of your chosen candidate in a Presidential election, for example.  So what if the then Secretary of State sold access to the 3rd most powerful position in the Executive Branch for 'donations' to a world-wide 'charity'.  So what if that same political crime boss hid their activities under a cloak of secrecy, after-all, they were under constant attacks from the 'far right conspiracy'. It was necessary to keep her secrets since her enemies would only use that information against her. Its okay to spy on the campaign of a 'hater', after-all, he deserved it.

Liberals seem to all follow the same playbook.  Don't know who is writing it, but when the edict comes down, they all jump on it quick.  Racism?  Every, and I do mean every member of the Caucasian race is guilty of it.  No exceptions.  You can do penance, and you might get elected, but being white is being evil.  Global warming?  Terrific means to control the everyday activities of the masses.  The beauty of it is, the masses respond voluntarily out of a sense of guilt/contrition.  Economics?  If you have money, you must have stole it. Pay up, now.  So what about Conservatives?  Individual Responsibility?  That means you must be content enough to blame the victims of your oppression for their short-comings.  Pay. After that,  go to jail.   You deserve everything we do to you.  Fairness?  You, Mr. Alt-Right, have no understanding of fairness.  Whatever you worked for, you must have stolen from the huddled masses of the oppressed under-class.

The problem with Conservatives is our individuality.  We aren't on the same page.  We'll debate the best approach to solving the problems of Poverty, Health Care, Education, and Immigration, while the Liberals are of the same mindset.  They quickly change their views, without any concern about seeming hypocritical, while we debate among ourselves the nuances of Conservatism.  There is 'Liberal Conservatism' and 'Conservative Liberalism' (go figure).  There is 'Libertarian Conservatism', 'Fiscal Conservatism', 'National/Traditional Conservatism' and 'Cultural/Social Conservatism'. Don't forget 'Religious Conservatism', 'Paternalistic Conservatism' and the extreme 'Authoritarian Conservatism'.  Each has its champion of ideas, and its legion of followers.

Yes, the Liberals have their spectrum of ideology, but that gets abandoned, and abandoned quickly, in the face of a conservative administration.  They agree to hate the Right, while the Right doesn't want to hate at all.  Conservatives are logically motivated, while liberals are slaves to their emotions. To them Trump is Satan.  They can agree there is a Satan, but they can't believe there is a God.

Right now, 18 months before the General Election, the 23 chosen prophets of Truth and the American Way, are stepping over each other to prove they are more socialist, more fair, more worthy and more radical than the next anointed one to lead the rest of us into the future.  I can't tell one from the other.  Abortion?  Up to the day of birth.  No, wait, birth is no obstacle.  1 day/1 week after is okay to terminate a pregnancy.  Immigrants?   Give them public assistance, public housing and public education.  Its only fair.  Forget about those people who have been waiting their turn for decades or even centuries.  The more people are in poverty, the more need the Government to solve their problems. Given the chance, the Left would grant voting rights to anyone the day they crossed the border.

There are numerous other examples of how quickly the Left seem to agree on everything.  You get the idea they've been holding back, lying about their true intentions.  All along they wanted the things we've been hearing about in their campaigns lately.  Ten years ago the Left seem to agree that Illegal Immigration was a terrible thing.  Now its open borders to everyone.  Collect $200 and do not pass Go.  Give them Citizenship and back-date their votes to 2016.  Ten years ago Marriage was between a man and a Woman.  Now, the idea of 'Men' and 'Women' are oppressive concepts which restrict the 21 different sexual identities that exist today.  The fact that most of us are Heterosexual only means we are 'phobic.  By the way, those 21 different identities only make up .5% of the population.

WTF - apparently Cauliflower is a racist vegetable. I give up.  It's a white vegetable after-all.

Conservatives are at a disadvantage. Because we believe in individualism, we can't agree to the extent that Liberals do.  The 'Never Trumpers' sit on the sidelines while those on the Left agree that anyone Liberal will do.  The Left have infiltrated the Media, and Hollywood.  They control Education.  Most people who work in Government vote Democratic.  All the young Millennials were indoctrinated into  Liberal  Theology.  And all the while they live in the parent's basement, they blame the Right because that's what they were educated to do. Too bad their parents didn't tell them that the Art History degree they pursued wasn't worth the $200,000 they spent on the over-priced education.

I am amazed how how quickly the Liberals agree.  Its like their their minds are plugged into a secret channel that tells them how to think, what to say, what to do.  It reminds me of 'The Invasion of the Body Snatchers', where the protagonists are up against a conspiracy of evil, until they too are absorbed.  "They are coming!".  "They are coming!". 

Until we agree on the threat, agree to compromise within our spectrum of Conservative views, agree to work together, we will always be at a disadvantage.  The last election, I voted 'Not Hillary'. The next time, I will vote 'Trump'.

We have had some great, patriotic Conservatives who have run on a pledge to self limit their own terms of office and have done so.  When was the last time any Democrat has done so?  I have evolved in my position regarding term limits having seen how our party only becomes weaker, while the opposition party grows stronger, when our good, strong, conservative Leaders hold themselves to higher standards than our opponents.  It reminds me of Barry Goldwater's slogans "In your heart, you know he's RIGHT" and " He'd rather be RIGHT, than President"!  In the end, it's all about who has the power which will affect American's lives and our nation's future.  To maintain such arbitrary high moral standards AND LOSE, is immoral, because it doesn't serve the greater good of what our nation needs.  THIS is why I, along with millions of other Americans, can ignore many of the personal shortcomings of Donald Trump, as long as he delivers on what it is we want!  I understand the high minded Conservatives who can not bring themselves to accept the President's foibles. I hope the contrast between President Trump's policies and whichever Socialist/Marxist gets the Democrat nomination, will make such well meaning, principled Conservatives, to take a stand for what is ultimately a question of whether our nation survives as a Constitutional Republic. The stakes are that high!

A couple of points. There is no such thing as Alt-Right, that is a leftist coined term designed to label Nazi hate groups as if doing so placed them in our camp. That group belongs to the Dims as does ANTIFA.
I must say, that was quite a plan the left worked out, where they were able to remove statues of their sordid racist past by using their own to riot so the people would demand these statues be taken out of the public square. In doing so, they fooled the masses into believing racist groups belonged to the Right, when nothing could be further from the truth.

As to fiscal, National, Cultural or Social conservatism, none of these represent true Conservatism and need to be recognized as such.
Politicians claim Fiscal Conservatism then once elected, push the leftist agenda, cultural or Social Conservatism is values based but can easily house leftist so called do gooders that push a welfare agenda. "National"? This is a new one to me, never heard of it.
Point being, there is but one Conservatism. By claiming differing labels, allows the watering down of our core values. The problem with Conservatives lies within our belief system of "We won't bother you if you just leave us alone", problem is, most of us are too busy leading normal lives that we don't have time to get involved in fighting the left on the public stage, nor do we have people in our groups that lie and pay people to destroy, like that of a Soros on the left who has helped takeover the media.

The left consists of everyone that isn't conservative, like ignorant brainwashed kids, the mentally ill, sexual perverts, Muscums, communists etc, all these groups despise one another but were willing to ignore each other for the common goal of destroying American culture.
Of course, this is also the cancer that is tearing the Dim party apart before our very eyes. The very core of the Dim platform is winning out, that of socialist ideals, and the Marxists took the gamble of seizing power away from party leadership, in turn driving away the moderate Dim.

This is where we need to be careful, these lost souls without leadership are searching for a new home and the GOP has a tendency to placate these people in hopes of growing the "Big Tent".
We don't need them, they are a cancer we have been purging these scum since 2009 when TEA was formed.
The GOP would love nothing more than to allow these leftist into the flock in hopes of securing their place of power, McCONnel depends on them to remain in power.

As to your closing of "Compromise"? Hell No!!! That's how we wound up in this mess in the first place, the GOP was all about concession, they have always been about growing govt, they have never been a Conservative party, ever, which is why TEA has been fighting to steal it from these moderates, or as they've moved away from our Founding Ideals, they are now leftists.

All in all you are pretty spot on with your observances, I just wanted to clarify a few points.

Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2019, 06:23:38 AM
A couple of points. There is no such thing as Alt-Right, that is a leftist coined term designed to label Nazi hate groups as if doing so placed them in our camp. That group belongs to the Dims as does ANTIFA.
I must say, that was quite a plan the left worked out, where they were able to remove statues of their sordid racist past by using their own to riot so the people would demand these statues be taken out of the public square. In doing so, they fooled the masses into believing racist groups belonged to the Right, when nothing could be further from the truth.

As to fiscal, National, Cultural or Social conservatism, none of these represent true Conservatism and need to be recognized as such.
Politicians claim Fiscal Conservatism then once elected, push the leftist agenda, cultural or Social Conservatism is values based but can easily house leftist so called do gooders that push a welfare agenda. "National"? This is a new one to me, never heard of it.
Point being, there is but one Conservatism. By claiming differing labels, allows the watering down of our core values. The problem with Conservatives lies within our belief system of "We won't bother you if you just leave us alone", problem is, most of us are too busy leading normal lives that we don't have time to get involved in fighting the left on the public stage, nor do we have people in our groups that lie and pay people to destroy, like that of a Soros on the left who has helped takeover the media.

The left consists of everyone that isn't conservative, like ignorant brainwashed kids, the mentally ill, sexual perverts, Muscums, communists etc, all these groups despise one another but were willing to ignore each other for the common goal of destroying American culture.
Of course, this is also the cancer that is tearing the Dim party apart before our very eyes. The very core of the Dim platform is winning out, that of socialist ideals, and the Marxists took the gamble of seizing power away from party leadership, in turn driving away the moderate Dim.

This is where we need to be careful, these lost souls without leadership are searching for a new home and the GOP has a tendency to placate these people in hopes of growing the "Big Tent".
We don't need them, they are a cancer we have been purging these scum since 2009 when TEA was formed.
The GOP would love nothing more than to allow these leftist into the flock in hopes of securing their place of power, McCONnel depends on them to remain in power.

As to your closing of "Compromise"? Hell No!!! That's how we wound up in this mess in the first place, the GOP was all about concession, they have always been about growing govt, they have never been a Conservative party, ever, which is why TEA has been fighting to steal it from these moderates, or as they've moved away from our Founding Ideals, they are now leftists.

All in all you are pretty spot on with your observances, I just wanted to clarify a few points.

Steve King attempted to address the change of charged rhetoric and new labels and new offensive meanings attributed to these terms and look what happened to him.  The fact remains just as "spying did occur", so has brainwashing of the American public .  Unfortunately, so much of the voting public is so super sensitive to politically correct indoctrination, individual Conservatives challenge this new lexicon at their own peril!  We are so fortunate to have Donald Trump who will suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune on our behalf.  He can insult them and we can back him up!  That's ok!  At some time, it may be that individuals on our side can speak out just as our President does and not be driven out of office by the double standard and wrath of the ginned up mob.

Quote from: wally on May 25, 2019, 07:09:26 AM
Steve King attempted to address the change of charged rhetoric and new labels and new offensive meanings attributed to these terms and look what happened to him.  The fact remains just as "spying did occur", so has brainwashing of the American public .  Unfortunately, so much of the voting public is so super sensitive to politically correct indoctrination, individual Conservatives challenge this new lexicon at their own peril!  We are so fortunate to have Donald Trump who will suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune on our behalf.  He can insult them and we can back him up!  That's ok!  At some time, it may be that individuals on our side can speak out just as our President does and not be driven out of office by the double standard and wrath of the ginned up mob.

At one point Rush admitted to not being a Conservative, because he knew what that entailed because Trump wasn't a Conservative, but not long after that, the GOP Establishment began usurping the term as an "All encompassing" label for the right. I accept Trump not being a Conservative, because sadly we need a big govt guy doing all the dirty work a Conservative would be hamstrung from accomplishing.
Trump being a Patriot is able to cut across these lines because he is undoing the damage the left has done to this country by using the very tactics they used.

What we all need to remember is, this is what the left does, they steal monikers as a way of disguising who and what they really are, Communists. Even the term Liberal was a usurpation of the term Classic Liberal/Conservative, which they destroyed and moved over to Progressive, just another way of saying commie.
Point being, we need to hold onto what it means to be a Conservative, so instead of allowing it to be watered down, we need to force acceptance of what it really means to be a Conservative and educate those entering the flock.
It was these Conservative standards that built this country, the last thing we need to do, is start accepting changes to our values. They came to us because we are Right, we didn't ask them to join us, only to have them infect us with their moderate wishywashy bull shit.
I refuse to concede my values one inch further to the left just to give the appearance we are 90% of the Nations spirit, I'll settle for majority and wait for the others to concede to us. We either Right this nation now while we still have a chance, or watch as the Marxists slowly take it back once and for all.

Many years ago, when I was growing up, my Dad would once in awhile get into a big plumbing problems that was beyond his ability to take care of by himself. Our house had been built circa 1850 and had some 'different' plumbing challenges.  When Dad was in deep shit, he'd call Earl Watson, who was the only guy that dared to work with lead pipes and all the many plumbing challenges of over a hundred years of non-code compliant cob jobs.  I remember my Mom was offended by this fat old guy who smoked smelly cigars and cussed like a drunken sailor. My Dad would drive her off, because he needed Old Earl to get the job done, which nobody else was capable of doing!  I remember my Mom not wanting him in the house and my Dad attempting to explain to her that no one else could do this job and she would have to put up with him.

Old, stinky, dirty, potty-mouthed Earl Watson got the impossible job done and did it for so little money that I can recall my Dad singing his praises to my uncle and grandfather and anyone else with an old house with bad plumbing that needed fixin.

The point is; We hired Donald Trump to do a job and he is doing a very satisfactory job, so far.  While there is no doubt that he is running into some real challenging problems, he is not giving up and seems very confident that ultimately he can fix our problems.  I, for one, can put up with a whole lot of colorful foibles and quirks in his personality, if it means we have a better country than if we had hired a guy with the 'proper attitude' who could talk a great talk but who couldn't get the job done! 

Quote from: wally on May 25, 2019, 10:12:56 AM
Many years ago, when I was growing up, my Dad would once in awhile get into a big plumbing problems that was beyond his ability to take care of by himself. Our house had been built circa 1850 and had some 'different' plumbing challenges.  When Dad was in deep shit, he'd call Earl Watson, who was the only guy that dared to work with lead pipes and all the many plumbing challenges of over a hundred years of non-code compliant cob jobs.  I remember my Mom was offended by this fat old guy who smoked smelly cigars and cussed like a drunken sailor. My Dad would drive her off, because he needed Old Earl to get the job done, which nobody else was capable of doing!  I remember my Mom not wanting him in the house and my Dad attempting to explain to her that no one else could do this job and she would have to put up with him.

Old, stinky, dirty, potty-mouthed Earl Watson got the impossible job done and did it for so little money that I can recall my Dad singing his praises to my uncle and grandfather and anyone else with an old house with bad plumbing that needed fixin.

The point is; We hired Donald Trump to do a job and he is doing a very satisfactory job, so far.  While there is no doubt that he is running into some real challenging problems, he is not giving up and seems very confident that ultimately he can fix our problems.  I, for one, can put up with a whole lot of colorful foibles and quirks in his personality, if it means we have a better country than if we had hired a guy with the 'proper attitude' who could talk a great talk but who couldn't get the job done!

It's this very reason I have changed my mind about Cruz getting the position. Since losing, his Conservative ranking has dropped to a B, all over fiscal issues, this is the sign of a moderate.
Trump, even though he is ignoring fiscal issues and spending like a drunk sailor on leave in a whorehouse, he is actually using our money to rebuild America, (picking the prettiest whore ) so I happily overlook the debt he is incurring.
This in no way means I've abandoned my principles, it just means the pragmatist overruled the way we spend money, though I believe at some point Trump will begin slashing the budget on social programs, but for now he is rebuilding our infrastructure, the Wall, immigration law overhaul, military redesigning Federal govt, installing Conservative judges and on and on.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is the Right man for the job, add to that, he's a true Patriot.

Back to Cruz, the only reason I thought he would make the best choice for POTUS was his fiscal side and his knowledge of our Constitution, but the fact that he's been voting for more spending, tells me he may have sold us out in the long run.

Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
It's this very reason I have changed my mind about Cruz getting the position. Since losing, his Conservative ranking has dropped to a B, all over fiscal issues, this is the sign of a moderate.
Trump, even though he is ignoring fiscal issues and spending like a drunk sailor on leave in a whorehouse, he is actually using our money to rebuild America, (picking the prettiest whore ) so I happily overlook the debt he is incurring.
This in no way means I've abandoned my principles, it just means the pragmatist overruled the way we spend money, though I believe at some point Trump will begin slashing the budget on social programs, but for now he is rebuilding our infrastructure, the Wall, immigration law overhaul, military redesigning Federal govt, installing Conservative judges and on and on.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is the Right man for the job, add to that, he's a true Patriot.

Back to Cruz, the only reason I thought he would make the best choice for POTUS was his fiscal side and his knowledge of our Constitution, but the fact that he's been voting for more spending, tells me he may have sold us out in the long run.

I came around to supporting Cruz against Trump and Trump pissed me off with his "Lying Ted" antics.  After Trump got the nomination, I eventually came around and worked hard to defeat the HildaBeast!  My brother attended a Trump rally in Florida and got me to begin to listen to his rallies on youtube.  I found myself beoming won over..one hundred percent!  Bigly! Covfefe! 

Quote from: wally on May 25, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
I came around to supporting Cruz against Trump and Trump pissed me off with his "Lying Ted" antics.  After Trump got the nomination, I eventually came around and worked hard to defeat the HildaBeast!  My brother attended a Trump rally in Florida and got me to begin to listen to his rallies on youtube.  I found myself beoming won over..one hundred percent!  Bigly! Covfefe! 

You among a bunch of converted Cruz backers here.

Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
It's this very reason I have changed my mind about Cruz getting the position. Since losing, his Conservative ranking has dropped to a B, all over fiscal issues, this is the sign of a moderate.
Trump, even though he is ignoring fiscal issues and spending like a drunk sailor on leave in a whorehouse, he is actually using our money to rebuild America, (picking the prettiest whore ) so I happily overlook the debt he is incurring.
This in no way means I've abandoned my principles, it just means the pragmatist overruled the way we spend money, though I believe at some point Trump will begin slashing the budget on social programs, but for now he is rebuilding our infrastructure, the Wall, immigration law overhaul, military redesigning Federal govt, installing Conservative judges and on and on.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is the Right man for the job, add to that, he's a true Patriot.

Back to Cruz, the only reason I thought he would make the best choice for POTUS was his fiscal side and his knowledge of our Constitution, but the fact that he's been voting for more spending, tells me he may have sold us out in the long run.

I think many of us fell for Cruz.

Quote from: Abe on May 26, 2019, 05:25:48 AM
I think many of us fell for Cruz.

I'd love to know why. Was it losing the election, was it discovering the levels of corruption, or all of that, that made him lose the faith?
I don't think he ever had intentions of caving to the moderate side, I know my values will never change and I kind of doubt his did either, or did they?

Cruz turned out to be a very good (perhaps great) conservative LAWYER!   Unfortunately, he reminds me of the things that make be uncomfortable with good lawyers; they manipulate the truth to make their case.  If one's Lawyer wins the case, we don't tend to care too much about the lawyerly tricks he used to do it.  In the bright spotlight of a campaign, he comes off far too much as a calculating Lawyer and far too little as an honest, trustworthy human being and fellow American.  (Unlike those, He likes to address us as "My fellow Americans" and that's as thin as the overworked "brothers & sisters" used by Black Politicians; it sounds pretter phony and scripted) This is why the moniker " Lying Ted " stuck! 

Quote from: wally on May 26, 2019, 06:41:25 AM
Cruz turned out to be a very good (perhaps great) conservative LAWYER!   Unfortunately, he reminds me of the things that make be uncomfortable with good lawyers; they manipulate the truth to make their case.  If one's Lawyer wins the case, we don't tend to care too much about the lawyerly tricks he used to do it.  In the bright spotlight of a campaign, he comes off far too much as a calculating Lawyer and far too little as an honest, trustworthy human being and fellow American.  (Unlike those, He likes to address us as "My fellow Americans" and that's as thin as the overworked "brothers & sisters" used by Black Politicians; it sounds pretter phony and scripted) This is why the moniker " Lying Ted " stuck!

Good point. Many of us ignored this because we were certain Trump was just feeding us bull shit and never planned on keeping his promises, so we turned a blind eye on Cruz.
I don't distrust Cruz, but I now suspect his choices going forward.

Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
It's this very reason I have changed my mind about Cruz getting the position. Since losing, his Conservative ranking has dropped to a B, all over fiscal issues, this is the sign of a moderate.
Trump, even though he is ignoring fiscal issues and spending like a drunk sailor on leave in a whorehouse, he is actually using our money to rebuild America, (picking the prettiest whore ) so I happily overlook the debt he is incurring.
This in no way means I've abandoned my principles, it just means the pragmatist overruled the way we spend money, though I believe at some point Trump will begin slashing the budget on social programs, but for now he is rebuilding our infrastructure, the Wall, immigration law overhaul, military redesigning Federal govt, installing Conservative judges and on and on.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is the Right man for the job, add to that, he's a true Patriot.

Back to Cruz, the only reason I thought he would make the best choice for POTUS was his fiscal side and his knowledge of our Constitution, but the fact that he's been voting for more spending, tells me he may have sold us out in the long run.

A few points...
1) This thread is a very good in depth read. Maybe it shld be in the Library?

2) I agree with you about trumps spending. Its alot but for the right reasons. Even conservatives understand the gvt does have a small role, like military. And as for the deficit,  no one seems to account for the fact that lower taxes and a booming economy pay for themselves through increased tax revenue. So any money spent now to enhance the economy is simply an investment which will pay dividends in the long run.

3) is Cruz a fake? Is the spending he is voting for trumps spending or the marxists spending?
He was always my first choice due to his conservatism and trump was always my second choice do to his ability to fight tit for tat. So when Cruz dropped out I had no problem switching to trump. I love his style and his tweets. I dont find him crass at all but perfectly normal. He talks and acts much like most of my social circle do.

Quote from: T Hunt on May 26, 2019, 08:56:12 AM
A few points...
1) This thread is a very good in depth read. Maybe it shld be in the Library?

2) I agree with you about trumps spending. Its alot but for the right reasons. Even conservatives understand the gvt does have a small role, like military. And as for the deficit,  no one seems to account for the fact that lower taxes and a booming economy pay for themselves through increased tax revenue. So any money spent now to enhance the economy is simply an investment which will pay dividends in the long run.

3) is Cruz a fake? Is the spending he is voting for trumps spending or the marxists spending?
He was always my first choice due to his conservatism and trump was always my second choice do to his ability to fight tit for tat. So when Cruz dropped out I had no problem switching to trump. I love his style and his tweets. I dont find him crass at all but perfectly normal. He talks and acts much like most of my social circle do.

Here's his record, you decide.

https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/ted-cruz/