Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: Solar on December 08, 2012, 01:39:23 PM

Title: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 08, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
 :laugh:
Just because Washington and Colorado legalized it, doesn't mean you have a legal right as far as the employer is concerned.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARIJUANA_WORKPLACE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-07-17-31-43 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARIJUANA_WORKPLACE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-07-17-31-43)
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Yawn on December 08, 2012, 02:33:45 PM
That's why the ultimate goal of these Faux Libertarians is to have the Supreme Court step in and do a Roe v Wade and declare it a "privacy" issue so that no one can punish them for showing up at work or driving down the street stoned.  Wouldn't want the system to "commit violence" against them by putting them in "cages" like some animal!  :lol:
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: a777pilot on December 08, 2012, 03:03:06 PM
LOL!

I opine that those of us that think this legal pot idea is just stupid should use the very same legal trick as the Liberals use.  Any company, organization or agency either private or public that receives Federal money in any form must not allow any associate or employee of that company, organization or agency to use drugs at any time.  Federal law take precedence.

Sort of a Goose and Gander thingie.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 08, 2012, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: a777pilot on December 08, 2012, 03:03:06 PM
LOL!

I opine that those of us that think this legal pot idea is just stupid should use the very same legal trick as the Liberals use.  Any company, organization or agency either private or public that receives Federal money in any form must not allow any associate or employee of that company, organization or agency to use drugs at any time.  Federal law take precedence.

Sort of a Goose and Gander thingie.
Excellent idea, you should submit that one to your Rep.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 08, 2012, 07:03:30 PM
Most businesses have a "no drug' policy and some require urine tests to back it up....good for them.


Billy
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: TowardLiberty on December 09, 2012, 06:55:30 AM
Quote from: Yawn on December 08, 2012, 02:33:45 PM
That's why the ultimate goal of these Faux Libertarians is to have the Supreme Court step in and do a Roe v Wade and declare it a "privacy" issue so that no one can punish them for showing up at work or driving down the street stoned.  Wouldn't want the system to "commit violence" against them by putting them in "cages" like some animal!  :lol:

That's a lie.

No libertarian would ever support any kind of forced association.

Anyone who does not recognize the forced caging of another to be a violent act, is simply not using their brain.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: mdgiles on December 09, 2012, 08:27:24 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 08, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
:laugh:
Just because Washington and Colorado legalized it, doesn't mean you have a legal right as far as the employer is concerned.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARIJUANA_WORKPLACE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-07-17-31-43 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARIJUANA_WORKPLACE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-07-17-31-43)
Sigh. Last I checked, most employers aren't in favor of you drinking on the job either.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 09, 2012, 08:29:28 AM
Quote from: mdgiles on December 09, 2012, 08:27:24 AM
Sigh. Last I checked, most employers aren't in favor of you drinking on the job either.
They don't tolerate a hangover either.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on December 08, 2012, 07:03:30 PM
Most businesses have a "no drug' policy and some require urine tests to back it up....good for them.


Billy

So, you approve of business (and the government BTW) of regulating what you do legally in your own home (or a friends home etc) own time?  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: a777pilot on December 08, 2012, 03:03:06 PM
LOL!

I opine that those of us that think this legal pot idea is just stupid should use the very same legal trick as the Liberals use.  Any company, organization or agency either private or public that receives Federal money in any form must not allow any associate or employee of that company, organization or agency to use drugs at any time.  Federal law take precedence.

Sort of a Goose and Gander thingie.

If Federal Law takes precedence, then why bother even having separate states and separate state governments?

Why not just do away with the 10th Amendment right now?

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Bassman on December 09, 2012, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 11:50:55 AM
So, you approve of business (and the government BTW) of regulating what you do legally in your own home (or a friends home etc) own time?  :rolleyes:
As a commercial driver, I have to take exception to that.  In situations of public safety like this, then yes, the employer and the government have every right to regulate such behavior.  Would you want 40 tons of tractor trailer barrelling right into you with the driver stoned out of his mind?
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: Bassman on December 09, 2012, 01:20:58 PM
As a commercial driver, I have to take exception to that.  In situations of public safety like this, then yes, the employer and the government have every right to regulate such behavior.  Would you want 40 tons of tractor trailer barrelling right into you with the driver stoned out of his mind?

So, I guess you don't drink - ever?

My point being, (BTW I've driven double belly dumps and I'm a certified pilot/escort for oversized loads. Currently, I drive a courier van), drug tests administered by the government and private companies are invasive of people's private lives. They don't legally distinguish whether or not the person involved was "under the influence" while they were working or if they had used the substance privately on their own time - with no impact on safety or performance on the job.

This whole "safety of the motoring public" reasoning is just total bullshit! I don't give a rats ass if a driver gets stoned over the weekend just as long as he is straight when he comes to work on Monday! Just like I don't care if a driver get drunk off his ass on Saturday, as long as he is sober and ready to work on Monday.

And, for the record, you don't need a urine test to know if someone is stoned (or drunk for that matter) on the job.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 09, 2012, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 01:47:12 PM
So, I guess you don't drink - ever?

My point being, (BTW I've driven double belly dumps and I'm a certified pilot/escort for oversized loads. Currently, I drive a courier van), drug tests administered by the government and private companies are invasive of people's private lives. They don't legally distinguish whether or not the person involved was "under the influence" while they were working or if they had used the substance privately on their own time - with no impact on safety or performance on the job.

This whole "safety of the motoring public" reasoning is just total bullshit! I don't give a rats ass if a driver gets stoned over the weekend just as long as he is straight when he comes to work on Monday! Just like I don't care if a driver get drunk off his ass on Saturday, as long as he is sober and ready to work on Monday.

And, for the record, you don't need a urine test to know if someone is stoned (or drunk for that matter) on the job.
So you're against the rights of a private business owner dictating their own rules where hiring is concerned?
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: a777pilot on December 09, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 11:54:31 AM
If Federal Law takes precedence, then why bother even having separate states and separate state governments?

Why not just do away with the 10th Amendment right now?

Good question.  Please ask the voters of CA or AZ or many other States which have passed laws or State Constitutional amendments that this current federal government do not like, then says that federal law takes precedence.

LOL!
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Bassman on December 09, 2012, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2012, 02:32:13 PM
So you're against the rights of a private business owner dictating their own rules where hiring is concerned?
Not just that, but the states' respective Departments of Transportation.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 08:22:35 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2012, 02:32:13 PM
So you're against the rights of a private business owner dictating their own rules where hiring is concerned?

When those rules are base solely on the unconstitutional dictates of a increasingly tyrannical government, yes.

In 1930s Germany, private businesses (if they knew what was good for them) set rules that they would not hire Jews...

I would oppose that, too!
:rolleyes:

In an ideal world, or at least in a better one than we have now. If a company decided that as part of its conditions for employment that no one could smoke pot either, then people would have the freedom of choice to work for that company or not. I'm all for that.

You seem to forget that the only reason (or at least the most common one) that company require drug tests for employees is because the Federal Government, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that it will outlaw the use of a substance which has been used by people socially and as part of religious ceremonies for 10s of thousands of years!

It is not about "safety of the motoring public". It is not about "public health and safety".

It is about control!

That is why the Federal Government wants pot to be illegal!
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: redlom xof on December 09, 2012, 10:24:50 PM
Why do neo-cons care so much about other people using pot ?

It really amazes me.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Yawn on December 10, 2012, 04:20:40 AM
Quote from: redlom xof on December 09, 2012, 10:24:50 PM
Why do neo-cons care so much about other people using pot ?

It really amazes me.

Why do neo-libs care so much about other people's diets and what kind of car they drive and what kind of lightbulbs they own and what kind of power they produce and whether or not they own guns for self defense or what words they use?

It really amazes me.   :laugh:
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 10, 2012, 05:20:40 AM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 08:22:35 PM
When those rules are base solely on the unconstitutional dictates of a increasingly tyrannical government, yes.

In 1930s Germany, private businesses (if they knew what was good for them) set rules that they would not hire Jews...

I would oppose that, too!
:rolleyes:

In an ideal world, or at least in a better one than we have now. If a company decided that as part of its conditions for employment that no one could smoke pot either, then people would have the freedom of choice to work for that company or not. I'm all for that.

You seem to forget that the only reason (or at least the most common one) that company require drug tests for employees is because the Federal Government, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that it will outlaw the use of a substance which has been used by people socially and as part of religious ceremonies for 10s of thousands of years!

It is not about "safety of the motoring public". It is not about "public health and safety".

It is about control!

That is why the Federal Government wants pot to be illegal!
Nope, just wanted a clarification on your point.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Solar on December 10, 2012, 05:22:39 AM
Quote from: Yawn on December 10, 2012, 04:20:40 AM
Why do neo-libs care so much about other people's diets and what kind of car they drive and what kind of lightbulbs they own and what kind of power they produce and whether or not they own guns for self defense or what words they use?

It really amazes me.   :laugh:
They don't have an issue with it as long as the can still get high.
Wait till the day they limit the size of pizza you can buy based on body fat, then you'll see angry libs. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 10, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 09, 2012, 11:50:55 AM
So, you approve of business (and the government BTW) of regulating what you do legally in your own home (or a friends home etc) own time?  :rolleyes:

Absolutely since the effects of drugs and alcohol lasts for some time and have different effects depending on ones idividual physiology what you do in your own home or anywhere else in private shows up in the work place.

you want air traffic controllers to be high?

You want Truckers who work for private companies being stoned.

You want some idiot next to you on the assembly line doing PCP before his shift?


As a former employer and manager if and employee shows up stoned  (or drunk) I'll fire 'em..did it a few times and proud of it.

Use common sense man.

Billy
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 11, 2012, 06:31:26 AM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on December 10, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Absolutely since the effects of drugs and alcohol lasts for some time and have different effects depending on ones idividual physiology what you do in your own home or anywhere else in private shows up in the work place.

you want air traffic controllers to be high?

You want Truckers who work for private companies being stoned.

You want some idiot next to you on the assembly line doing PCP before his shift?


As a former employer and manager if and employee shows up stoned  (or drunk) I'll fire 'em..did it a few times and proud of it.

Use common sense man.

Billy

Then to be consistent, you need to outlaw all alcohol products as well as start random breathalizer tests.

Of course, given you mind set, you'd probably agree with that.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 11, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 11, 2012, 06:31:26 AM
Then to be consistent, you need to outlaw all alcohol products as well as start random breathalizer tests.

Of course, given you mind set, you'd probably agree with that.

Drugs have ruined our society, they detract from the work place, our social life and impact the work place negatively.

As a former supervisor/manager and small business owner (private security) I am going to protect my business, the workplace and protect my fellow employee's from impaired co workers and of course our clients.

If not you may find yourself missing an ass which has been sued off of you.

"troubled employee's" of all types best take heed: zero tolerance for substance abuse. That means no alcohol or drugs on the work premises and you show up sober and straight. If protecting my investment means you pee in a cup, you pee in a cup or clean out your locker.

Now as a parting shot I will say that dealing with unionized employee's who are drunks, druggies or are caught in violation and want to protect their dues paying drones raise the same objections I see in the tone of your posts.

:popcorn:

Billy




Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 12, 2012, 06:30:28 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on December 11, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
Drugs have ruined our society, they detract from the work place, our social life and impact the work place negatively.

As a former supervisor/manager and small business owner (private security) I am going to protect my business, the workplace and protect my fellow employee's from impaired co workers and of course our clients.

If not you may find yourself missing an ass which has been sued off of you.

"troubled employee's" of all types best take heed: zero tolerance for substance abuse. That means no alcohol or drugs on the work premises and you show up sober and straight. If protecting my investment means you pee in a cup, you pee in a cup or clean out your locker.

Now as a parting shot I will say that dealing with unionized employee's who are drunks, druggies or are caught in violation and want to protect their dues paying drones raise the same objections I see in the tone of your posts.

:popcorn:

Billy

And I will say that your argument would have been right at home in NAZI German!

Or Stalinist Russia...

Or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge...

Or Communist China...

etc, etc, etc... :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 12, 2012, 07:59:42 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 12, 2012, 06:30:28 PM
And I will say that your argument would have been right at home in NAZI German!

Or Stalinist Russia...

Or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge...

Or Communist China...

etc, etc, etc... :popcorn:

And your opinion sounds like you would be more at home in a Union shop that protects the incompetent and hazardous.

http://www.torquenews.com/106/chrysler-ordered-rehire-workers-caught-drinking-smoking-pot-during-lunch (http://www.torquenews.com/106/chrysler-ordered-rehire-workers-caught-drinking-smoking-pot-during-lunch)

This is why I'll never buy another Chrylser/GMC.

Billy

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 08:02:07 PM
That is the worst logic I have seen in a whole Billy Defiant.


Those workers were caught with alcohol as well, should we ban that too ?
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 12, 2012, 08:07:12 PM
Quote from: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 08:02:07 PM
That is the worst logic I have seen in a whole Billy Defiant.


Those workers were caught with alcohol as well, should we ban that too ?

The point apparently went over the one on top of your head.
Back up, regroup and think about what I said before making a fool out of yourself any further.

Billy
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 08:22:15 PM
Quote
The point apparently went over the one on top of your head.

Apparently it did.

QuoteBack up, regroup and think about what I said before making a fool out of yourself any further.

Yep. Your points aren't very coherent.

Is there any real point discussing things with you ? You think because a few people came to your work drunk/high it should mean that all forms of drugs should therefor be banned.

You want the government to involve itself in a social issue because you don't like drugs and alcohol. Then you call yourself a small government conservative.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Good work mateh
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 12, 2012, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 08:22:15 PM
Apparently it did.

Yep. Your points aren't very coherent.

Is there any real point discussing things with you ? You think because a few people came to your work drunk/high it should mean that all forms of drugs should therefor be banned.

You want the government to involve itself in a social issue because you don't like drugs and alcohol. Then you call yourself a small government conservative.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Good work mateh

Yep, I would say the point went over the one on your head by a long shot.

Lets see if we can walk you through this so you will at least be on par with an orangutang pounding on a type writer.

We are discussing an Employer, a manager PROTECTING HIS BUSINESS
his clients and exercising a certain work place standard by not tolerating his employees engaging in conduct that is harmful...like getting drunk or high as a Bats ass then going back to the assembly line.

If you can't see the Logic behind that then you deserve to loose a finger
or buy a car from Chysler or GMC that cacthes on fire.

Unions are protectionist, hard to enforce standards when the Union tells
you you got to rehire employee's that are a danger to themselves and others.

And here I thought all you big time union people were big on safety standards. If I was a union man I wouldn't want these idiots working next to me or my friends...I'm sure you would and you'd probably be right there with them on the Marijuana and beer break.

In fact since you can't comprehend something so basic and simple as that I'd surmise youre probably stoned now.

:popcorn:


Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 09:06:47 PM
Billy have you ever tried weed ? Or alcohol ?

As for your post, the only thing that I could grasp from it and agree with is that people shouldn't be drunk/high at work, especially if it is a health and safety issue. The rest of the post I have no idea what you are crapping on about.

I still don't understand how that then gets translated into government banning anyone from ever using these products.

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 12, 2012, 09:14:25 PM
Quote from: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 09:06:47 PM
Billy have you ever tried weed ? Or alcohol ?

As for your post, the only thing that I could grasp from it and agree with is that people shouldn't be drunk/high at work, especially if it is a health and safety issue. The rest of the post I have no idea what you are crapping on about.

I still don't understand how that then gets translated into government banning anyone from ever using these products.

So you agree with my original post...thanks

And yes I tried weed once or twice as a young serviceman in Vietnam.
Did nothing for me other than making my mouth feel like the chinese army marched through it barefoot.

Of course I tried alcohol and got drunk a few times. I no longer drink, other than the occasional glass of wine with a meal. I  haven't drank or smoked or used any kind of recreational drugs for several decades.

Thats why I'm so healthy at my age.... :wink:
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 09:28:29 PM
Billy most people would agree with you on the work issue.

As for your weed/alcohol history, that's good. It's good that you're healthy and what not. I have no problem with that, obviously. I just don't see why you have a problem with other people doing it.

If I'm going to smoke a joint in my backyard, it will not impact on you or your family. Obviously if I do it at work or while driving etc, it could and the government should be involved.

Conclusion, let people do what they want unless it impacts on others.
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: BILLY Defiant on December 13, 2012, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: redlom xof on December 12, 2012, 09:28:29 PM
Billy most people would agree with you on the work issue.

As for your weed/alcohol history, that's good. It's good that you're healthy and what not. I have no problem with that, obviously. I just don't see why you have a problem with other people doing it.

If I'm going to smoke a joint in my backyard, it will not impact on you or your family. Obviously if I do it at work or while driving etc, it could and the government should be involved.

Conclusion, let people do what they want unless it impacts on others.

That's the point of this whole thread...what you do when on your own time CAN AFFECT others in the work place if you come in stoned, drunk or hung over. That is why it is an issue for the business owner.

Since you agree with me on this issue then by the "Logic" which Darth Fife dispells I, and now you are a Nazi, a Khmer rouge murderer or Josef Stalin.

Thats the point where you jumped in making issues over "Logic".

Go figure

:popcorn:

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: hfishjr81 on December 13, 2012, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on December 13, 2012, 03:18:06 PM
That's the point of this whole thread...what you do when on your own time CAN AFFECT others in the work place if you come in stoned, drunk or hung over. That is why it is an issue for the business owner.

Since you agree with me on this issue then by the "Logic" which Darth Fife dispells I, and now you are a Nazi, a Khmer rouge murderer or Josef Stalin.

Thats the point where you jumped in making issues over "Logic".

Go figure

:popcorn:



Going into work inebriated shouldn't be allowed, but legal drinks, or buds, that people partake outside of work, shouldn't be any business of the business owner.  Legal is legal.   
Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: Darth Fife on December 13, 2012, 04:29:27 PM
Quote from: hfishjr81 on December 13, 2012, 03:51:29 PM


Going into work inebriated shouldn't be allowed, but legal drinks, or buds, that people partake outside of work, shouldn't be any business of the business owner.  Legal is legal.

You'll have to forgive old Billy Boy, he's got a wild hair up his butt about this whole pot thing. It makes him kind of crazy when people point out the obvious hyprorcacy of his position.

For the record, I never said that I don't think a private business should be prohibited from drug testing its employees.

I only think that if the elected representatives of a state have passed a law which legalizes pot, such laws should be respected by the Federal Government. Most companies today which do random drug testing of employees do so because of Federal Regulations. When it comes to transportation jobs, drivers, and people who operate heavy equipment, this is understandable, however, I have to ask, why in the name of hell does a Walmart Greeter have to pass a drug screening to get a job? :huh:

Nothing I've said here means that I want people driving around or coming to work either stoned or drunk.

Neither does it mean that I approve of union keeping people who were smoking pot and drinking on their lunch break from getting fired. I am, about the most anti-union person you will ever find.

You see, Billy talks a good game about wanting smaller government, but I don't think his heart is really in it. I think he is just fine with Big Government (and, Big Brother) as long as that Big Government enforces the things he is in favor of.

I've got a feeling that unless we are shot to death in a no-knock raid by Federal Agents who come for our guns in the middle of the night, we are both going to end up in the proverbial Gulag.

The only difference between us will be that I will  know why I'm there! :laugh:

Title: Re: The Pitfalls of Getting High Legally
Post by: hfishjr81 on December 13, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 13, 2012, 04:29:27 PM
I've got a feeling that unless we are shot to death in a no-knock raid by Federal Agents who come for our guns in the middle of the night, we are both going to end up in the proverbial Gulag.


LOL! Damn big government trying to rule peoples lives, if someone wants to smoke they should be allowed, however, those damn guns gotta go!!! Hope business owners start demanding people hand them over to work...  :drool: