Quote from: Hoofer on November 24, 2017, 05:03:23 AM
I think that's partially right - As socialists the become empowered through chaos, claiming they stand for equality... and then hail diversity (inequality) as good...?   Replacing historical tradition with fairy-tails of Utopia.

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Agree w/these sentiments.
Reflecting on the French Enlightenment, of some 250 years past,
the Industrial Revolution emerged contemporaneously.
While the latter greatly improved the economic well being of Mankind,
a good and praiseworthy transformation; we need to understand that
this event largely eclipsed the spiritual for Mankind ushering in a
reverence for the material; a reality of the modern era.
The history of the world since that time, particularly in warfare,
is mute testament to the impact of this change of focus
and it has hardly been benign for Mankind.

Quote from: Walter Josh on November 24, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
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Agree w/these sentiments.
Reflecting on the French Enlightenment, of some 250 years past, the Industrial Revolution emerged contemporaneously.
While the latter greatly improved the economic well being of Mankind, a good and praiseworthy transformation; we need to understand that this event largely eclipsed the spiritual for Mankind ushering in a reverence for the material; a reality of the modern era.
The history of the world since that time, particularly in warfare, is mute testament to the impact of this change of focus and it has hardly been benign for Mankind.

Walt... honest question.   Do you think the Elitists are trying to walk a tight-rope with the class-warfare rhetoric?   I've often wondered if they IMAGINE some other "End Game" to creating this economic unrest - which I see as ending in an American Revolution or Communism, and they lose.   Heck, man, maybe they expect to have DIED a natural death before it plays out?

I hear talk show hosts, one after another, CLAIMING Conservatives don't know how to play the long game, Progressives are always focused on the long game - and we're the idiots.   Yet, the ultimate End Game for them is Tranny, oppression, Communism and the complete loss of their freedom.  Begs the question to the protester, "After you burn down the city, what's next?  Bitch because you have no clean water, electricity & shelter?" or How is it noble protesting a high-efficiency pipeline and polluting the landscape?

At least I have the continuation of the American Dream, via the Constitution... they of course hate.  Who is short-sighted and who is playing the long game?

Also makes me wonder why Progressives call us Producers "greedy", but all their Progressive heroes who are filthy rich haven't produced anything tangible (or got rich by taxing, regulating & punishing Producers).

Quote from: Hoofer on November 25, 2017, 06:46:24 AM
Walt... honest question.   Do you think the Elitists are trying to walk a tight-rope with the class-warfare rhetoric?   I've often wondered if they IMAGINE some other "End Game" to creating this economic unrest - which I see as ending in an American Revolution or Communism, and they lose.   Heck, man, maybe they expect to have DIED a natural death before it plays out?

I hear talk show hosts, one after another, CLAIMING Conservatives don't know how to play the long game, Progressives are always focused on the long game - and we're the idiots.   Yet, the ultimate End Game for them is Tranny, oppression, Communism and the complete loss of their freedom.  Begs the question to the protester, "After you burn down the city, what's next?  Bitch because you have no clean water, electricity & shelter?" or How is it noble protesting a high-efficiency pipeline and polluting the landscape?

At least I have the continuation of the American Dream, via the Constitution... they of course hate.  Who is short-sighted and who is playing the long game?

Also makes me wonder why Progressives call us Producers "greedy", but all their Progressive heroes who are filthy rich haven't produced anything tangible (or got rich by taxing, regulating & punishing Producers).

You pretty much answered your own question. Look at the Dim party today, it's a mere image of what it was just 8 short years ago, it's strength came from aligning with extremist groups with one another, problem is, they created division within their own constituency, from hating Whitey, to capitalism is evil, and everything in between.
They failed to keep these groups cohesive within the party, add to that, their lies of loving the country, while supporting ANTIFA, OWS BLM, all designed to attack the values of the nation and distancing themselves further from the core principles the Nation was founded on.
Even Fuglosi found it necessary to explain how the party loved capitalism, that's how bad it had gotten, so much so, their constituency had more in common with Marxism than our very way of life.
The base booed her over it.

Point is, the party used to theme itself on protecting Liberty, only to create special liberties for each and every group under their big tent, be it militant, or Snowflake, these groups began to clash, and there's no putting the smoke back in that transformer, it's done cooked out.
In summary? The party you and I knew since the 60s is dead and gone, never to rise again, but what comes out of the ashes will take decades to coalesce into a working party again, if ever.

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2017, 08:39:16 AM
You pretty much answered your own question. Look at the Dim party today, it's a mere image of what it was just 8 short years ago, it's strength came from aligning with extremist groups with one another, problem is, they created division within their own constituency, from hating Whitey, to capitalism is evil, and everything in between.
They failed to keep these groups cohesive within the party, add to that, their lies of loving the country, while supporting ANTIFA, OWS BLM, all designed to attack the values of the nation and distancing themselves further from the core principles the Nation was founded on.
Even Fuglosi found it necessary to explain how the party loved capitalism, that's how bad it had gotten, so much so, their constituency had more in common with Marxism than our very way of life.
The base booed her over it.

Point is, the party used to theme itself on protecting Liberty, only to create special liberties for each and every group under their big tent, be it militant, or Snowflake, these groups began to clash, and there's no putting the smoke back in that transformer, it's done cooked out.
In summary? The party you and I knew since the 60s is dead and gone, never to rise again, but what comes out of the ashes will take decades to coalesce into a working party again, if ever.

Do you think THEY see it?
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2017/11/24/john-morgan-im-leaving-democratic-party-nelson-should-run-for-governor-122556

Quote"I can't muster enthusiasm for any of today's politicians," the prominent trial lawyer and Democratic fundraiser wrote on Twitter. "They are all the same. Both parties. I plan to register as an independent and when I vote, vote for the lesser of two evils."

Bombshell of an announcement?   It doesn't sound like John Morgan "get's it" either - he sounds more upset the Democrats are boring. 

QuoteHe said he would still support Democratic candidates he "likes personally," ...

Unless I'm mistaken, he's as much adrift in the sea of ignorance as Bernie Sanders & Nancy Pelosi.

Quote from: Hoofer on November 25, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
Do you think THEY see it?
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2017/11/24/john-morgan-im-leaving-democratic-party-nelson-should-run-for-governor-122556 Bombshell of an announcement?   It doesn't sound like John Morgan "get's it" either - he sounds more upset the Democrats are boring.  Unless I'm mistaken, he's as much adrift in the sea of ignorance as Bernie Sanders & Nancy Pelosi.

I saw this earlier, and my first thought was, he's jumping on the passing wagon of those abandoning the party in droves, didn't want to be one of the last in charge of turning off the lights and locking the doors.
Right now, it's the cool thing to dis the party. These people know the party is dead and it's not coming back, so dissing it carries no negative connotations.

Keep in mind, the very same thing is occurring within the gop'E, where Establishment RINO are bailing early because they don't want to take the heat after 2018 Midterms.
Once the bloodletting begins, there will be a hemorrhaging of leftist RINO blood taking place the moment they lose majority status, the slaughter begins.

Quote from: Hoofer on November 25, 2017, 06:46:24 AM
Walt... honest question.   Do you think the Elitists are trying to walk a tight-rope with the class-warfare rhetoric?   I've often wondered if they IMAGINE some other "End Game" to creating this economic unrest - which I see as ending in an American Revolution or Communism, and they lose.   Heck, man, maybe they expect to have DIED a natural death before it plays out?

I hear talk show hosts, one after another, CLAIMING Conservatives don't know how to play the long game, Progressives are always focused on the long game - and we're the idiots.   Yet, the ultimate End Game for them is Tranny, oppression, Communism and the complete loss of their freedom.  Begs the question to the protester, "After you burn down the city, what's next?  Bitch because you have no clean water, electricity & shelter?" or How is it noble protesting a high-efficiency pipeline and polluting the landscape?

At least I have the continuation of the American Dream, via the Constitution... they of course hate.  Who is short-sighted and who is playing the long game?

Also makes me wonder why Progressives call us Producers "greedy", but all their Progressive heroes who are filthy rich haven't produced anything tangible (or got rich by taxing, regulating & punishing Producers).

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Hoofer, a provocative question worthy of serious reflection.
My sense is that the Left, being genetically impatient, cannot and will not wait for eternity.
Hence they reject the continuity and custom of tradition which is Man's bridge to the eternal.
Instead, they insist on their vision of the perfect, this very moment!!!
The mortal danger for these elites, is that in their rejection of continuity, they lose
contact with and respect for non-elites, the vast majority of everyday plain people.
This happened in the decades preceding Paris in 1789 and St. Petersberg in 1916
and is the reason for the horrific violence directed against the ruling class in those upheavals.
In my judgement, Principled Conservatives, have always played the long game as they have
internalized the wisdom of the Ancients, the Scholastics, those of the Renaissance; and so on.
They understand that Man's is emphatically not a perfectible creature.
Therefore the best that can be done is to create a pathway in the here and now;
allowing Man to always be directed by his Better Angels.
Stay well.

Quote from: Walter Josh on November 25, 2017, 01:25:08 PM
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Hoofer, a provocative question worthy of serious reflection.
My sense is that the Left, being genetically impatient, cannot and will not wait for eternity.
Hence they reject the continuity and custom of tradition which is Man's bridge to the eternal.
Instead, they insist on their vision of the perfect, this very moment!!!

We agree completely.   However, with all the failures of Socialism & Communism - I would assume they're recognize the knife is posed at their own throat(s), are they *that* stupid?

QuoteThe mortal danger for these elites, is that in their rejection of continuity, they lose contact with and respect for non-elites, the vast majority of everyday plain people.
This happened in the decades preceding Paris in 1789 and St. Petersberg in 1916 and is the reason for the horrific violence directed against the ruling class in those upheavals.

Precisely!  Venezuela  They created the welfare state, now they can't feed it!   While Progressives busily creating the class warfare scenario, are they forgetting history?   It makes sense, the under-privileged would turn on them, and why not!?   They've been practicing with BLM, Bernie and the 'tax the rich' protests.   What's to stop the non-elites from just DOING what the Elites are egging them on for?  I believe you're also correct, Elites are by nature, Isolationists also.  Locally & Foreign.

QuoteIn my judgement, Principled Conservatives, have always played the long game as they have internalized the wisdom of the Ancients, the Scholastics, those of the Renaissance; and so on.
They understand that Man's is emphatically not a perfectible creature.
Therefore the best that can be done is to create a pathway in the here and now; allowing Man to always be directed by his Better Angels.
Stay well.

So we agree on Principled Conservatives, however, the question looms over us like a Hydrogen filled Zeppelin - ready to be ignited.
You're leaving me with a single observation, Progressives are GREEDY SOBs.  They'd rather feather their own nests and hope to die before their chickens come home to roost.  The last thing they ever care about is God, Country or their fellow man.  ...a real departure from our founding fathers who sacrificed so much personally ... and for this!?!?

Quote from: Hoofer on November 25, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
We agree completely.   However, with all the failures of Socialism & Communism - I would assume they're recognize the knife is posed at their own throat(s), are they *that* stupid?
  Precisely!  Venezuela  They created the welfare state, now they can't feed it!   While Progressives busily creating the class warfare scenario, are they forgetting history?   It makes sense, the under-privileged would turn on them, and why not!?   They've been practicing with BLM, Bernie and the 'tax the rich' protests.   What's to stop the non-elites from just DOING what the Elites are egging them on for?  I believe you're also correct, Elites are by nature, Isolationists also.  Locally & Foreign.
So we agree on Principled Conservatives, however, the question looms over us like a Hydrogen filled Zeppelin - ready to be ignited.
You're leaving me with a single observation, Progressives are GREEDY SOBs.  They'd rather feather their own nests and hope to die before their chickens come home to roost.  The last thing they ever care about is God, Country or their fellow man.  ...a real departure from our founding fathers who sacrificed so much personally ... and for this!?!?

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Permit me to share a reflection made by a family member many years ago, who is now deceased.
He was a Monsignor in the Roman Catholic Church and his comment was direct and simple.
"Isn't it intriguing that so few have been raised to Sainthood by the Church in the modern era? Doesn't that say a lot about the values of the times we live in?"
As I said earlier, the left is completely at home in an environment that worships materialism
and their attitudes and behaviors reflect that.

Quote from: Walter Josh on November 25, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
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Permit me to share a reflection made by a family member many years ago, who is now deceased.
He was a Monsignor in the Roman Catholic Church and his comment was direct and simple.
"Isn't it intriguing that so few have been raised to Sainthood by the Church in the modern era? Doesn't that say a lot about the values of the times we live in?"
As I said earlier, the left is completely at home in an environment that worships materialism and their attitudes and behaviors reflect that.

Oh, but you're too generous...  What the Marxist accuses the Capitalist of, their greatest sin, Covetousness, that great commandment which foiled the would be saintly , "Thou shalt not Covet..."   (To earnestly desire the property, person or wealth of another person).  Nor does it help any of us, those Politicians promising they will assist, wealth confiscation via TAXES.  The greedy electing their enablers!

A rather wealthy man's final request was to be entombed with a hefty brick of pure gold, firmly clasped in his hands.
Upon his arrival on the other side, St. Peter asked, "Why did you covet Pavement?  Worthless, as you see, we tread upon it."

Quote from: Walter Josh on November 25, 2017, 01:25:08 PM
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Principled Conservatives, have always played the long game as they have
internalized the wisdom of the Ancients, the Scholastics, those of the Renaissance; and so on.
They understand that Man's is emphatically not a perfectible creature.
Therefore the best that can be done is to create a pathway in the here and now;
allowing Man to always be directed by his Better Angels.

Spot On!