We in the upper areas of NYS are watching this because although separated by thousands of miles, our economic & political woes are almost identical with those of our CA brethren.
NYC area and 'Upstate' NY are dissimilar enough to be unrelated in any major issue.
Watching---
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/exclusive-splitting-california-three-step-closer-billionaire/
Belenus, can you find another source that doesn't force one to join just to read an article?
We do not support sites that demand our participation or private info.
Quote from: Solar on April 12, 2018, 07:31:56 AM
Belenus, can you find another source that doesn't force one to join just to read an article?
We do not support sites that demand our participation or private info.
Damn. The thing did not ask me to join anything or sign up and I haven't.
Sorry about that.
I guess I need to give this business a rest.
Quote from: Belenus on April 12, 2018, 07:38:04 AM
Damn. The thing did not ask me to join anything or sign up and I haven't.
Sorry about that.
I guess I need to give this business a rest.
If you could see the entire article, then post it in its entirety, you have my permission.
A lot of these sites give you just so many times to read then force you to join, I think that's what happened in my case, so go ahead and, in the least, post the pertinent parts.
Could California be split up to better represent its citizens?
Billionaire venture capitalist Tim Draper says his petition to break up California into three states has garnered enough signatures for the initiative to be added to the ballot this November.
Draper lobbied unsuccessfully for similar ballot initiatives in 2014 and 2016, but this year he said he was able to amass approximately 600,000 signatures, well more than the 365,880 required. The initiative reportedly will be submitted to election officials next week.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/04/12/proposal-calls-california-be-split-three-states-billionaire-tim-draper-explains
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/exclusive-splitting-california-three...
Already posted
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/the-'big-ca-split-up'-pipedream-or-reality/
Can't wait to see the cat fight when they try to assign the debt
Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2018, 08:45:25 AM
Already posted
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/the-'big-ca-split-up'-pipedream-or-reality/
Sorry at first I didn't see it. My bad. Maybe walks can merge it or delete it.
Don't see this mentioned and not sure... but I posted this elsewhere and someone pointed out that it's a democrat plan to gain more Senators if the state gets divided up. What do you think?
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 13, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
Don't see this mentioned and not sure... but I posted this elsewhere and someone pointed out that it's a democrat plan to gain more Senators if the state gets divided up. What do you think?
Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least because they're scared to death of the real movement to split the State from the Marxists.
http://soj51.org/
Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2018, 09:17:09 AM
Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least because they're scared to death of the real movement to split the State from the Marxists.
http://soj51.org/
My initial thought was how do they that the northern part of the state wouldn't elect a Republican since I believe the northern part is the more "conservative " part if such a thing exists at all in CA. Then again it could be a RINO GOPe one. The guess jury is still out of the pros and cons of this idea.
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 13, 2018, 09:40:27 AM
My initial thought was how do they that the northern part of the state wouldn't elect a Republican since I believe the northern part is the more "conservative " part if such a thing exists at all in CA. Then again it could be a RINO GOPe one. The guess jury is still out of the pros and cons of this idea.
It all depends how they do it. If the red parts are allowed to secede then it shld help us. However if the blue parts themselves are split into different states then the left gets more senetors.
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 13, 2018, 09:40:27 AM
My initial thought was how do they that the northern part of the state wouldn't elect a Republican since I believe the northern part is the more "conservative " part if such a thing exists at all in CA. Then again it could be a RINO GOPe one. The guess jury is still out of the pros and cons of this idea.
Believe me, Norcal is solid Conservative. The SOJ-51 movement eliminates all lib strongholds, with the exception of Tahoe region.
The end result would be a Conservative Idaho, yes, more conservative than Idaho today.
Suggest caution rather than consent here; particularly
w/a crony capitalist fraud and hustler like Draper involved.
He is a faddish San Francisco venture capitalist, promoting
bullshit such as Bitcoin; so be wary of his "ideas".
--------------------------------------------
A reflection involving La Raza /"The Race" is appropriate.
In 1521, Spanish Adventurer, Hernando Cortes conquered Mexico,
along w/Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada plus 4 more.
The Treaty of Guadeloupe-Hidalgo, 325 years later in 1848, ended
the US-Mexican War, ceding control/possession of these States
to these USA.
This gave rise to the La Raza movement in Mexico which claimed
that this Treaty was an illegal usurpation; as these States rightfully
belonged to Mexico.
At its core, La Raza is a militant, hate-America group, conspicuous
in urban areas such as Chicago and Los Angeles.
Splitting California would likely lead to partition (recall Ireland)
and a vote to secede (recall our Civil War).
We have far to many assholes in the public arena touting their
panaceas and hardly need another schmuck such as Draper
Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2018, 09:49:19 AM
Believe me, Norcal is solid Conservative. The SOJ-51 movement eliminates all lib strongholds, with the exception of Tahoe region.
The end result would be a Conservative Idaho, yes, more conservative than Idaho today.
Just as an aside. I recently read that Idaho is one of the 3 top places people from the Northeast are relocating to. We know what happens when northeasterners relocate...some take their liberal ideas with them. Look at the Carolinas. May not be totally blue yet but heading that way as more and more people move there. Where I live all I hear is, "moving to NC or SC". Not good politically. Planning on getting out of here myself but I don't want to move where I'll have to deal with the same thing again.
Quote from: Walter Josh on April 13, 2018, 10:07:17 AM
Suggest caution rather than consent here; particularly
w/a crony capitalist fraud and hustler like Draper involved.
He is a faddish San Francisco venture capitalist, promoting
bullshit such as Bitcoin; so be wary of his "ideas".
--------------------------------------------
A reflection involving La Raza /"The Race" is appropriate.
In 1521, Spanish Adventurer, Hernando Cortes conquered Mexico,
along w/Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada plus 4 more.
The Treaty of Guadeloupe-Hidalgo, 325 years later in 1848, ended
the US-Mexican War, ceding control/possession of these States
to these USA.
This gave rise to the La Raza movement in Mexico which claimed
that this Treaty was an illegal usurpation; as these States rightfully
belonged to Mexico.
At its core, La Raza is a militant, hate-America group, conspicuous
in urban areas such as Chicago and Los Angeles.
Splitting California would likely lead to partition (recall Ireland)
and a vote to secede (recall our Civil War).
We have far to many assholes in the public arena touting their
panaceas and hardly need another schmuck such as Draper
You forgot to mention that Mexico agreed to cede the SouthWest to the US for a payment of $25,000,000. Since the Mexican population of the SouthWest was minuscule, with most of the area being a howling wilderness, Mexico was well paid for the territory. What La Raza - and their ilk - really want is the SouthWest, after 150 years of United States development.
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 14, 2018, 05:34:09 AM
Just as an aside. I recently read that Idaho is one of the 3 top places people from the Northeast are relocating to. We know what happens when northeasterners relocate...some take their liberal ideas with them. Look at the Carolinas. May not be totally blue yet but heading that way as more and more people move there. Where I live all I hear is, "moving to NC or SC". Not good politically. Planning on getting out of here myself but I don't want to move where I'll have to deal with the same thing again.
That's exactly what happened to Ca, the East Coast invaded Hollyweird, decades later, they took over the Dim party and now they're spreading their cancer to Idaho.
That's why I'm staying put, we have a better chance staying and fighting instead of running away from the problem.
Keep in mind, the coast is the lib hub of Ca, the rest of the state is still Conservative. We even have a shot at a Pub Governor.
Quote from: mdgiles on April 14, 2018, 06:43:04 AM
You forgot to mention that Mexico agreed to cede the SouthWest to the US for a payment of $25,000,000. Since the Mexican population of the SouthWest was minuscule, with most of the area being a howling wilderness, Mexico was well paid for the territory. What La Raza - and their ilk - really want is the SouthWest, after 150 years of United States development.
------------------
Fair enough.
Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2018, 07:45:24 AM
That's exactly what happened to Ca, the East Coast invaded Hollyweird, decades later, they took over the Dim party and now they're spreading their cancer to Idaho.
That's why I'm staying put, we have a better chance staying and fighting instead of running away from the problem.
Keep in mind, the coast is the lib hub of Ca, the rest of the state is still Conservative. We even have a shot at a Pub Governor.
I'm in NJ which is "CA East". We have a lunatic governor who ran on raising taxes and making NJ a Sanctuary State and the assholes in this state still elected him. In NJ the biggest obstacle to sanity is the Hudson County political machine and the larger cities which are overrun with "undesirables".
NJ also needs to be split in half. Luckily for me that I live in a Republican County and a Republican town run by a pretty conservative group, but I still have to deal with the state officials. Funny that Idaho was mentioned as I always thought about relocating to Sandpoint Idaho.
One very real advantage to a California-state three-way split, is that Republicans won't be holding their breath in fear when the polls are counted in a Presidential election.
Those 50 (I think) electoral votes give us a headache when that darned state votes. Would be a big relief. And a far more fair election.
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 14, 2018, 02:03:23 PM
I'm in NJ which is "CA East". We have a lunatic governor who ran on raising taxes and making NJ a Sanctuary State and the assholes in this state still elected him. In NJ the biggest obstacle to sanity is the Hudson County political machine and the larger cities which are overrun with "undesirables".
NJ also needs to be split in half. Luckily for me that I live in a Republican County and a Republican town run by a pretty conservative group, but I still have to deal with the state officials. Funny that Idaho was mentioned as I always thought about relocating to Sandpoint Idaho.
---------------------------------------
The NJ GOP doesn't even rise to the level of garbage.
It's always, ALWAYS, been a far left bastion of frauds,
hustlers and scumbags.
In about 2 generations it'll be down to 1 congress-critter,
just like Vermont.
Quote from: Dubinsky on April 14, 2018, 02:03:23 PM
I'm in NJ which is "CA East". We have a lunatic governor who ran on raising taxes and making NJ a Sanctuary State and the assholes in this state still elected him. In NJ the biggest obstacle to sanity is the Hudson County political machine and the larger cities which are overrun with "undesirables".
NJ also needs to be split in half. Luckily for me that I live in a Republican County and a Republican town run by a pretty conservative group, but I still have to deal with the state officials. Funny that Idaho was mentioned as I always thought about relocating to Sandpoint Idaho.
We went to Sand point in search of land, I was shocked at the amount of rich Bay Area Trash that moved there, only to begin their infestation all over again.
Look at Zillow for mansions in the area, it looks like the Tahoe area with sprawling McMansions up and down the waters edge, driving up land prices and driving out the locals.
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Sandpoint-ID/pmf,pf_pt/103894908_zpid/6929_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/48.701384,-115.961381,48.075785,-116.884232_rect/9_zm/
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Sandpoint-ID/pmf,pf_pt/103894219_zpid/6929_rid/boat-house_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/48.701384,-115.961381,48.075785,-116.884232_rect/9_zm/
Let's not forget this is not CA's call. New states, and that is what a split would be, have to be approved, I believe by 2/3 of the states.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 14, 2018, 03:16:36 PM
Let's not forget this is not CA's call. New states, and that is what a split would be, have to be approved, I believe by 2/3 of the states.
Not certain, but the case we have against the state could proceed to SCOTUS.
It's all about Representation under the Constitution, and the Southern half has literally stolen the voice of the North, like that of West Virginia in a sense.
You can see the argument here and its Constitutional validity.
http://soj51.org/cffr/
State of Jefferson Declaration of Independence
We the people of the 23 counties of Northern California, hereafter known as Jefferson, formally demand an immediate Article 4, Section 3, (U.S.) state split. We declare the State of California is in open rebellion and insurrection against the government of the United States.
Governor J. Brown, Lt Governor G. Newsom, Senate Pro Tem K. León, Speaker A Rendon, States Attorney General X. Becerra, Senator K. Harris, and the majority of voting members of the California Legislature, have openly and publicly declared war on the government of the United States.
Governor Brown and the above named politicians are in violation of USC 8, Section 1324, harboring and shielding illegal aliens, a felony under federal law. Governor Brown and the above named criminals are in violation of Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4 U.S. that clearly gives Congress lawful jurisdiction over immigration. Governor Brown and the above named politicians are in violation of California Constitution, Article 3, Section 1, which states that California is an inseparable part of the United States, and the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Governor Brown and the above named politicians, are in violation of Article 20 of the California Constitution which describes the oath of office requiring support and defense of the United States Constitution....without any mental reservation. Governor Brown has openly and publicly made several agreements with foreign powers in violation of the United States Constitution Article 1, Section 10, clause 3. Governor Brown does so with the aid of the above named politicians.
Is this or is this not a nation of laws? Or have we citizens simply become subjects to the monarchs and despots who know themselves to be above laws which are applied only to us?
We the people of The Jefferson Counties have repeatedly and humbly requested an end to the lawlessness, which issues from Sacramento. We have repeatedly and humbly requested redress of our grievances from both the executive and legislative branches of government. Our requests are met only with further abuses and assaults on our Liberty and property rights. We are now attempting to gain justice from the Article 3 Court in the Eastern District of California, only to be told that since all Californians are equally tyrannized by the institutional felons named above, there is nothing the court can do to help us. This is unacceptable and further, is an outrage against liberty. See CFR v Padilla.
We the people, established government with the sole duty to protect the rights of the governed. Government derives all its just power from the consent of the governed. Whenever ANY Government is destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it and to establish government more suitable to their needs. California Constitution Article 2, Section 1, and Declaration of Independence.
We the people of the Jefferson Counties are not playthings of the criminals who rule over California. We the people, do not yield our sovereignty to the government that was formed to serve us.
We the people of the Jefferson Counties have absolutely no access to representation, nor are we allowed a republican form of government guaranteed us in Article 4, Section, 4(U.S).
We declare the above named criminal politicians have breached their sacred oath and thus the social compact referred to as the Constitution of the State of California is now null and void.
We demand the United States Congress and the United States Senate immediately introduce and pass, legislation for an Article 4, Section 3, state split along the geographic lines which the Jefferson Declaration Committees will supply to this esteemed body.
The Jefferson Declaration Committee has prepared a draft constitution and guidelines for a committee of separation. We declare our allegiance to the United States of America and to the Constitution of the United States. We beg relief from the long train of abuses heaped upon us, our families, and our liberties.
Declare the 51st State, Jefferson, to free us from tyranny! We appeal to almighty God for the rectitude of our intentions because we declare that in order to escape tyranny, He can be our only judge!
One for 30,000
Thirty-Thousand.org - Return the House of Representatives
435 Representatives Can Not Faithfully Represent 300 Million Americans!
Why Is the Constitutional Representation Ratio Ignored?
A bit more historical context is in order before examining the effect of the departure from the Constitution's prescribed proportional scheme of representation. www.thenewamerican.com
Article The First
The House Apportionment Act of 1911 was introduced in the Democratic controlled House of Representatives as H.R. 2983 in direct opposition to Article the First.... www.articlethefirst.net
Article the First: Is Congress Ignoring an Amendment Ratified by the States?
A federal case argues that the first of 12 proposed constitutional amendments (10 of which became the Bill of Rights) was ratified by the states. www.thenewamerican.com
Why litigation?
If the people's representatives refuse to take the actions their employers demand, then getting an outside party to help determine the appropriate remedy is worthwhile. After filing declarations and petitions with the State of California, our elected legislators did not craft a resolution to release the northern counties to become their own State. Suing California for lack of representation and dilution of vote will result in better representation across all of California and we believe this will lead to an independent State of Jefferson.
If it happened the conservative part would have to put up a wall to keep out the flood of doped up hungry artists who can't afford the $5000 a month for a 20X20 walk-in closet to live in. Not to mention the illegals will out umber the citizens.
Already have the river (San Gabriel) between LA and Orange Co.
Quote from: Rick on April 14, 2018, 06:57:37 PM
Already have the river (San Gabriel) between LA and Orange Co.
Yeah but they will try and cross it and remember, these people don't bathe much and they have no skills so their boats would sink faster than Hillary Clinton book sales.. The environmental impact could be devastating.
I can see why CA, TX, NY, and FL would want to split up, but we would end up with 700 states in a few years with both sides jockeying for extra Congressional seats.
Quote from: Wyatt5 on April 17, 2018, 09:31:50 PM
I can see why CA, TX, NY, and FL would want to split up, but we would end up with 700 states in a few years with both sides jockeying for extra Congressional seats.
Why is better representation of the citizen a bad thing?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for this Bullshit some leftist dreamed up to kill off the real movement, that being The State of Jefferson that would split the state in half.
Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2018, 04:53:36 AM
Why is better representation of the citizen a bad thing?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for this Bullshit some leftist dreamed up to kill off the real movement, that being The State of Jefferson that would split the state in half.
California Dems Dreamin'? Long-shot bid to split up state would boost party in Senate
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/19/california-dems-dreamin-long-shot-bid-to-split-up-state-would-boost-party-in-senate.html
Ok this article makes me wary about the CA split up. It claims the split wld make 2 hard dem states and one left leaning state, thus giving dems more senate seats. If its gonna help the libs then i dont want it. So who will it really help? Wld it create 3 blue states? Cuz that wldnt solve the problem of the right being underrepresented. Isnt the whole point to give the right the voice they are missing and to better represent the ppl?
Quote from: T Hunt on April 19, 2018, 06:38:40 AM
California Dems Dreamin'? Long-shot bid to split up state would boost party in Senate
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/19/california-dems-dreamin-long-shot-bid-to-split-up-state-would-boost-party-in-senate.html
Ok this article makes me wary about the CA split up. It claims the split wld make 2 hard dem states and one left leaning state, thus giving dems more senate seats. If its gonna help the libs then i dont want it. So who will it really help? Wld it create 3 blue states? Cuz that wldnt solve the problem of the right being underrepresented. Isnt the whole point to give the right the voice they are missing and to better represent the ppl?
Yes, it would create 3 blue states, that's why the map chose to include San Franfreako, including the entire Bay Area and Sacto. the Capitol with Norcal, both heavily populated leftist strongholds.
That map is a total disaster.
As I said earlier, the Dims are scared to death http://soj51.org/ will succeed and leave the left literally powerless in the state.
Quote from: Solar on April 19, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Yes, it would create 3 blue states, that's why the map chose to include San Franfreako, including the entire Bay Area and Sacto. the Capitol with Norcal, both heavily populated leftist strongholds.
That map is a total disaster.
As I said earlier, the Dims are scared to death http://soj51.org/ will succeed and leave the left literally powerless in the state.
Wait, so there are actually 2 seperate separatist movements? I didnt realize that... Ok so tim draper and the cal-3 is the liberal movement? And state of jefferson, or soj51, is the conservative plan?
Let me get this strait, Isnt the tim draper plan set to be on the ballot this nov? That wld be the state simply spitting itself into 3 parts.
Then is the soj51 going thru the courts to achieve victory or is that also a ballot measure this nov? If it is going thru the court then that means part of the state wants to actually secede from the other part and is using the federal gvt to do it, right?
Does the draper plan have any chance of success?
Quote from: T Hunt on April 19, 2018, 09:36:17 AM
Wait, so there are actually 2 seperate separatist movements? I didnt realize that... Ok so tim draper and the cal-3 is the liberal movement? And state of jefferson, or soj51, is the conservative plan?
Let me get this strait, Isnt the tim draper plan set to be on the ballot this nov? That wld be the state simply spitting itself into 3 parts.
Then is the soj51 going thru the courts to achieve victory or is that also a ballot measure this nov? If it is going thru the court then that means part of the state wants to actually secede from the other part and is using the federal gvt to do it, right?
Does the draper plan have any chance of success?
Correct, Draper is a Marxist from the Bay Area. Regardless if it's a ballot measure, it will still be challenged and have to go through the legal system and we're way ahead of that by years...
Chances of it are Drapers shit passing are horrible in that all Norcal residents know what damage would occur if Sac and San Fran were part of our state, it would wind up being more leftist than the South.
Quote from: Solar on April 19, 2018, 11:02:20 AM
Correct, Draper is a Marxist from the Bay Area. Regardless if it's a ballot measure, it will still be challenged and have to go through the legal system and we're way ahead of that by years...
Chances of it are Drapers shit passing are horrible in that all Norcal residents know what damage would occur if Sac and San Fran were part of our state, it would wind up being more leftist than the South.
Before people get a chance to vote on this, I hope they have an idea on how the debt will be split.
Quote from: s3779m on April 19, 2018, 01:38:39 PM
Before people get a chance to vote on this, I hope they have an idea on how the debt will be split.
Or just how much debt they'd incur after the fact.
Quote from: Solar on April 19, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Yes, it would create 3 blue states, that's why the map chose to include San Franfreako, including the entire Bay Area and Sacto. the Capitol with Norcal, both heavily populated leftist strongholds.
That map is a total disaster.
As I said earlier, the Dims are scared to death http://soj51.org/ will succeed and leave the left literally powerless in the state.
So, what do you think would happen if there was a "compromise" between the two movements, in which SF and Sacramento, and San Diego were all included in the coastal state of CA - then the rest of CA divided between north and south?
Quote from: zewazir on April 19, 2018, 06:34:40 PM
So, what do you think would happen if there was a "compromise" between the two movements, in which SF and Sacramento, and San Diego were all included in the coastal state of CA - then the rest of CA divided between north and south?
That's the model we're working with at soj51.org, the State of Jefferson would not be hampered by Sac, Bat Area of Socal, they'd sink without us.
Quote from: Solar on April 19, 2018, 06:38:36 PM
That's the model we're working with at soj51.org, the State of Jefferson would not be hampered by Sac, Bat Area of Socal, they'd sink without us.
You need to make sure there is nothing that will drag you down or it'll be like the EU.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on April 19, 2018, 06:41:59 PM
You need to make sure there is nothing that will drag you down or it'll be like the EU.
We already have a Legislature in place, and every one of them is a TEA Conservatives. :cool: