PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - A South Florida teacher said she was fired after she refused to give a student a 50 percent grade on homework that was not turned in, CNN reported.
Port St. Lucie teacher Diana Tirado said students should not get credit for work that was never handed in.
Tirado said motivation and inspiration is what she strives to provide her students. Tirado has been a teacher for years, but she started at West Gate K-8 School in August as an eighth-grade history teacher.
"Teaching is a calling for me," she said.
Tirado said she assigned an explorer notebook project which she gave the student's two weeks to complete.
When several students did not turn in their assignments, Tirado said she found out about a "no zeros" policy, in which the lowest possible grade allowed to be given is 50 percent. The policy is reflected in the student and parent handbook, Tirado said.
Tirado said she asked administrators, "What if they don't turn it in?"
She said the reply she received was, "We'll give them a 50."
"You don't know what's going on at home. If my son blatantly chooses not to do it, he knows he's got an issue right there, right," one parent said.
Tirado was terminated on Sept. 14, but there's no clause mentioned in the letter from the principal since she was still in her probationary period.
On her last day of school, Tirado wrote this message on a whiteboard: "Bye, kids. Mrs. Tirado loves you and wishes you the best in life! I have been fired for refusing to give you a 50% for not handing anything in."
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/teacher-fired-after-refusing-to-abide-by-no-zero-policy-when-students-didnt-hand-in-work/840999722
And we wonder why the kids are stupid.
It like like the members of the school board are as stupid as the kids. :rolleyes:
Quote from: tac on September 25, 2018, 06:13:32 PM
It like like the members of the school board are as stupid as the kids. :rolleyes:
Yes but they have gone all the way through school to be that stupid. :lol:
Quote from: The Boo Man... on September 25, 2018, 05:42:58 PM
PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - A South Florida teacher said she was fired after she refused to give a student a 50 percent grade on homework that was not turned in, CNN reported.
Port St. Lucie teacher Diana Tirado said students should not get credit for work that was never handed in.
Tirado said motivation and inspiration is what she strives to provide her students. Tirado has been a teacher for years, but she started at West Gate K-8 School in August as an eighth-grade history teacher.
"Teaching is a calling for me," she said.
Tirado said she assigned an explorer notebook project which she gave the student's two weeks to complete.
When several students did not turn in their assignments, Tirado said she found out about a "no zeros" policy, in which the lowest possible grade allowed to be given is 50 percent. The policy is reflected in the student and parent handbook, Tirado said.
Tirado said she asked administrators, "What if they don't turn it in?"
She said the reply she received was, "We'll give them a 50."
"You don't know what's going on at home. If my son blatantly chooses not to do it, he knows he's got an issue right there, right," one parent said.
Tirado was terminated on Sept. 14, but there's no clause mentioned in the letter from the principal since she was still in her probationary period.
On her last day of school, Tirado wrote this message on a whiteboard: "Bye, kids. Mrs. Tirado loves you and wishes you the best in life! I have been fired for refusing to give you a 50% for not handing anything in."
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/teacher-fired-after-refusing-to-abide-by-no-zero-policy-when-students-didnt-hand-in-work/840999722
And we wonder why the kids are stupid.
And we wonder why so many in the country are turning to socialism as a legitimate reason for doing nothing. We certainly are surprised by things like this but really...should we be?
How dare a teacher hold students accountable!
How else are kids supposed to learn? If you don't do work in the real world your boss fires you, not the other way around.
I have an idea. We need to teach another life lesson. For all the kids who do the work and make A's and B's let's do a random selection. If they're selected they fail and have to repeat said grade. And, they get five swots from a paddle. If they give back talk then make their asses black and blue. The life lesson is that nothing in life is guaranteed and life is not fair. Let's not teach life lessons half assed.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on October 03, 2018, 08:23:35 AM
How else are kids supposed to learn? If you don't do work in the real world your boss fires you, not the other way around.
And, let's add to what I said in my previous post. One can do the work and still get fired and/or laid off. And, one can make all A's, go to college, make top marks and still end up working at McDonalds even though they were told to do their work to avoid McDonalds as well. How the kids interpret the concept you're trying to impart is if you do everything we tell you to do then you will receive your rewards. While they're going to school and even college this works. They do their work and pass the classes they move onto the next grade. In college, they do their work, get their credits and degree and find the degree does not guarantee them any job for that matter. So, about a fourth of person's life they're under the you do this you will receive this model. If those who are in charge of the kids are only teaching this then they're only teaching a part of the story. This means those who are in charge of these kids are lying by omission.
Quote from: alienhand on October 03, 2018, 09:20:08 AM
I have an idea. We need to teach another life lesson. For all the kids who do the work and make A's and B's let's do a random selection. If they're selected they fail and have to repeat said grade. And, they get five swots from a paddle. If they give back talk then make their asses black and blue. The life lesson is that nothing in life is guaranteed and life is not fair. Let's not teach life lessons half assed.
How about we teach kids that for the overwhelming majority of us, life will go in the direction that they themselves lead it in.
Quote from: s3779m on October 04, 2018, 04:18:53 AM
How about we teach kids that for the overwhelming majority of us, life will go in the direction that they themselves lead it in.
What, that life isn't fair? How dare you tell these young blank slates the truth.
Quote from: Solar on October 04, 2018, 05:07:53 AM
What, that life isn't fair? How dare you tell these young blank slates the truth.
Life isnt fair. i think most people come to realize that at some point in their life. Through struggle there comes success in one way or another, and by rewarding kids for doing no work is not helping them.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on October 04, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
Life isnt fair. i think most people come to realize that at some point in their life. Through struggle there comes success in one way or another, and by rewarding kids for doing no work is not helping them.
This is exactly how the left created a generation of snowflakes.
Quote from: Solar on October 04, 2018, 09:19:55 AM
This is exactly how the left created a generation of snowflakes.
It's also, in my opinion, why so many young libs want socialism. It's their dream of no work and no effort into anything. Just coast through life with a false sense of accomplishment. That's not how America was created and it's why America is one of the most successful countries in the world. Through hard work, determination, and a willingness to fight for a better life.
Quote from: s3779m on October 04, 2018, 04:18:53 AM
How about we teach kids that for the overwhelming majority of us, life will go in the direction that they themselves lead it in.
In other words, we control our own destiny. This does not hold up with the concept that life is not fair. Let's say we have 500 people are has their ship steered towards becoming programmers.
Either all 500 can become programmers and they're guaranteed to become programmers if they do certain things or life is not fair and at least some will not become programmers ergo they're not in control of their own destiny and they don't lead themselves. There control over the destination is limited. Either maxim is true but both maxims can't be true at the exact same time. It's like an airplane being able to both go up and down at the exact same time. It makes no sense. It's illogical. And proof by contradiction proves that at least one of these maxims must be false.
I don't dispute the maxim that life is not fair but I don't accept that we're in control of our lives and we lead ourselves to where we wish to go. It makes no sense. It's illogical. It's contradictory. Both maxims can't hold up as true.
This is blatantly double-think. 2 + 2 = 4. It's out of the playbook of 1984.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
Life guarantees nothing yet you have control.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2dpkpw.jpg)
Life is not fair yet it's acceptable to bitch about taxes, socialism, the constitution not being followed, etc, etc. If you all truthfully subscribed to the maxim of life is not fair then why don't you all slog on? Accept welfare, Accept socialism, Accept the constitution being violated. Accept feminism. Accept communism. Accept illegal immigration. If you all subscribed to this maxim of life not being fair then shut up, shut down this forum and move on with your lives. If life is truthfully not fair and we must accept this truth then why are you guys fighting for your version of fairness? Why bother? Why did the founding fathers even bother with the revolutionary war and write up the constitution in the first place if we're all to accept that life is not fair?
How do your actions belie what you all accept to be true? We're all expected to accept that life is not fair yet none of you do. How does this even make any kind of logical sense whatsoever? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why aren't people consistent with what they accept as truth?
Liberals do the same thing with tolerance. They value tolerance except for the things they don't tolerate. People in general are contradictory, illogical and inconsistent. How did we even make it as a species?
People are so freaking confusion.
Quote from: alienhand on October 04, 2018, 10:07:21 AM
Life is not fair yet it's acceptable to bitch about taxes, socialism, the constitution not being followed, etc, etc. If you all truthfully subscribed to the maxim of life is not fair then why don't you all slog on? Accept welfare, Accept socialism, Accept the constitution being violated. Accept feminism. Accept communism. Accept illegal immigration. If you all subscribed to this maxim of life not being fair then shut up, shut down this forum and move on with your lives. If life is truthfully not fair and we must accept this truth then why are you guys fighting for your version of fairness? Why bother? Why did the founding fathers even bother with the revolutionary war and write up the constitution in the first place if we're all to accept that life is not fair?
How do your actions belie what you all accept to be true? We're all expected to accept that life is not fair yet none of you do. How does this even make any kind of logical sense whatsoever? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why aren't people consistent with what they accept as truth?
Liberals do the same thing with tolerance. They value tolerance except for the things they don't tolerate. People in general are contradictory, illogical and inconsistent. How did we even make it as a species?
People are so freaking confusion.
How did we even make it as a species?
Some did not, they keep living off of other.
People are so freaking confusion.
LOL and your not ever 50 years old.
Quote from: alienhand on October 04, 2018, 10:07:21 AM
Life is not fair yet it's acceptable to bitch about taxes, socialism, the constitution not being followed, etc, etc. If you all truthfully subscribed to the maxim of life is not fair then why don't you all slog on? Accept welfare, Accept socialism, Accept the constitution being violated. Accept feminism. Accept communism. Accept illegal immigration. If you all subscribed to this maxim of life not being fair then shut up, shut down this forum and move on with your lives. If life is truthfully not fair and we must accept this truth then why are you guys fighting for your version of fairness? Why bother? Why did the founding fathers even bother with the revolutionary war and write up the constitution in the first place if we're all to accept that life is not fair?
How do your actions belie what you all accept to be true? We're all expected to accept that life is not fair yet none of you do. How does this even make any kind of logical sense whatsoever? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why aren't people consistent with what they accept as truth?
Liberals do the same thing with tolerance. They value tolerance except for the things they don't tolerate. People in general are contradictory, illogical and inconsistent. How did we even make it as a species?
People are so freaking confusion.
You make no sense at all. Life is not fair, but to allow others to dictate your life really steals from the individual making their own decisions in life in turn, limiting the choices they have to improve their position in life.
You used programmers as an analogy, problem is, not all of them will be good at what they do, so those entering the field have an increased chance of success over the failures.
If you live in Silicon valley, your chances increase in being hired, but if you live in rural cow country, you chose the wrong career.
But under our system of govt, the playing field is leveled, you are entitled to make mistakes, as opposed to communism, where the govt decides your choices.
No, life is not fair, but it's more fair here than say, Cuba.
Quote from: Solar on October 04, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
You make no sense at all. Life is not fair, but to allow others to dictate your life really steals from the individual making their own decisions in life in turn, limiting the choices they have to improve their position in life.
You used programmers as an analogy, problem is, not all of them will be good at what they do, so those entering the field have an increased chance of success over the failures.
If you live in Silicon valley, your chances increase in being hired, but if you live in rural cow country, you chose the wrong career.
But under our system of govt, the playing field is leveled, you are entitled to make mistakes, as opposed to communism, where the govt decides your choices.
No, life is not fair, but it's more fair here than say, Cuba.
He can always move to a fair country. But that will not help him.
Hmmm.... Is there some place more fair then the U.S. :lol:
Quote from: alienhand on October 04, 2018, 09:38:31 AM
In other words, we control our own destiny. This does not hold up with the concept that life is not fair. Let's say we have 500 people are has their ship steered towards becoming programmers.
Either all 500 can become programmers and they're guaranteed to become programmers if they do certain things or life is not fair and at least some will not become programmers ergo they're not in control of their own destiny and they don't lead themselves. There control over the destination is limited. Either maxim is true but both maxims can't be true at the exact same time. It's like an airplane being able to both go up and down at the exact same time. It makes no sense. It's illogical. And proof by contradiction proves that at least one of these maxims must be false.
I don't dispute the maxim that life is not fair but I don't accept that we're in control of our lives and we lead ourselves to where we wish to go. It makes no sense. It's illogical. It's contradictory. Both maxims can't hold up as true.
This is blatantly double-think. 2 + 2 = 4. It's out of the playbook of 1984.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
Life guarantees nothing yet you have control.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2dpkpw.jpg)
Wow, that sounded very similar to obama talking about how his economy is the new norm and there is nothing Trump can do about it. He told us jobs will not come back, the gdp will stay around 1% as the new norm, we can only improve things with a magic wand, ect. Thank God Trump did not believe him. Obama preached to those who longed for anyone or anything to blame for whatever happened in their life which they did not approve of. Wow, how convenient! We are not like the cow chip floating down the river without any control to what happens to us, for the vast majority of us we do control how we will live and how our future will play out. I understand there will always be the circumstances which we can not control, as the saying goes, shit happens. How we react to that is what separates us from each other. If there are people looking for life's guarantee's, they can stop looking, studying for a test does not guarantee an A, but not studying does not give the student the right to blame the unfair world.
Wow so much time talking around in circles to justify letting someone else take control or to say that giving up is the answer. It absolutely is not fair because most of everything around us is something we can never control. We can only react to it in a manner that seems to have the best outcome. You will never get a programmer's job if you decide to not even learn how to read and instead stay in the basement and play video games. Children die of cancer and people with good educations and experience do not always get the job they want. But get a MBA from Wharton or a law degree from Harvard and I pretty much guarantee that you will have a job when you get out of school.
The problem with the young is that they expect to be rewarded for their actions, that A always leads to B. In short they do not know how to react to life not being fair because they have been protected from fighting the good fight and still losing. Not able to pull themselves up when they get knocked down and not able to fight on even when the results are not those they dreamed of. One thing is sure is that those who do not try or give things their best effort are certain to fail. Someone who did not go to school and succeeded is not an example of unfairness because that person pursued an idea and worked at it to get to success.
Unfortunately, far to often I had to tell my kids the one job you can get with 100 percent success, one that takes no effort and one that will always be available to them is unemployment. No prerequisites, not training needed, no experience and certainly no effort required.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 05, 2018, 12:22:51 PM
Wow so much time talking around in circles to justify letting someone else take control or to say that giving up is the answer. It absolutely is not fair because most of everything around us is something we can never control. We can only react to it in a manner that seems to have the best outcome. You will never get a programmer's job if you decide to not even learn how to read and instead stay in the basement and play video games. Children die of cancer and people with good educations and experience do not always get the job they want. But get a MBA from Wharton or a law degree from Harvard and I pretty much guarantee that you will have a job when you get out of school.
The problem with the young is that they expect to be rewarded for their actions, that A always leads to B. In short they do not know how to react to life not being fair because they have been protected from fighting the good fight and still losing. Not able to pull themselves up when they get knocked down and not able to fight on even when the results are not those they dreamed of. One thing is sure is that those who do not try or give things their best effort are certain to fail. Someone who did not go to school and succeeded is not an example of unfairness because that person pursued an idea and worked at it to get to success.
Unfortunately, far to often I had to tell my kids the one job you can get with 100 percent success, one that takes no effort and one that will always be available to them is unemployment. No prerequisites, not training needed, no experience and certainly no effort required.
I understand now! It's not that life is fair or not fair. It's that life is not absolute. Life is probabilistic. The decisions one makes don't lead to B or C. One's decisions one makes more then likely will lead to B or C. It's that the type of decisions one makes determines a higher probability of a particular outcome. Like, you're more likely to receive an A on a test if you study but studying doesn't absolutely lead to an A. I've been so freaking stupid.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 05, 2018, 12:22:51 PM
The problem with the young is that they expect to be rewarded for their actions, that A always leads to B. In short they do not know how to react to life not being fair because they have been protected from fighting the good fight and still losing. Not able to pull themselves up when they get knocked down and not able to fight on even when the results are not those they dreamed of. One thing is sure is that those who do not try or give things their best effort are certain to fail. Someone who did not go to school and succeeded is not an example of unfairness because that person pursued an idea and worked at it to get to success.
And, did this happen in vacuum? Who was in charge of them? Who raised them? Where did they spend a good portion of their lives? Who were the ones put horseshit into their head? This is the problem with personal responsibility. We want to give those on the last link the entire pie. Shouldn't these others on the other links on the chain be made accountable as well? If not, why not?
Shouldn't personal responsibility be applied across the board?
And, why this deep profound hate for today's youth?
Quote from: Solar on October 04, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
You make no sense at all. Life is not fair, but to allow others to dictate your life really steals from the individual making their own decisions in life in turn, limiting the choices they have to improve their position in life.
You used programmers as an analogy, problem is, not all of them will be good at what they do, so those entering the field have an increased chance of success over the failures.
If you live in Silicon valley, your chances increase in being hired, but if you live in rural cow country, you chose the wrong career.
But under our system of govt, the playing field is leveled, you are entitled to make mistakes, as opposed to communism, where the govt decides your choices.
No, life is not fair, but it's more fair here than say, Cuba.
What I'm asking is why is it wrong to want fairness in one aspect of life but morally correct to want fairness in another aspect? Why isn't applied across the whole board? You said "Life is not fair, but to allow others to dictate your life really steals from the individual making their own decisions in life in turn, limiting the choices they have to improve their position in life." Is this simply an exception to the idea that life is not fair and we're morally correct to do something about that in cases like you stated? Like in the revolutionary war life wasn't fair but we as a people were morally correct to fight against the unfairness? <<<Is this an exception to the rule?
Quote from: walkstall on October 04, 2018, 12:16:03 PM
He can always move to a fair country. But that will not help him.
Hmmm.... Is there some place more fair then the U.S. :lol:
Well, I do have a place I'd want to go.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/autisticstate/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-confederation-t47.html
Somewhere that those like myself are in the majority in which we set the tone and make the rules. Somewhere I can be myself and still be able to succeed and support myself. I want to go where I can be accepted for who I am. Somewhere I'm not automatically rejected from a job for lack of eye contact, not shaking hands firm enough, I'm not professional enough, etc, etc.
Quote from: alienhand on October 05, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
And, did this happen in vacuum? Who was in charge of them? Who raised them? Where did they spend a good portion of their lives? Who were the ones put horseshit into their head? This is the problem with personal responsibility. We want to give those on the last link the entire pie. Shouldn't these others on the other links on the chain be made accountable as well? If not, why not?
Shouldn't personal responsibility be applied across the board?
And, why this deep profound hate for today's youth?
You make a good point. This situation with parenting did not begin yesterday. I saw it begin to happen the 70's when I was raising my kids. I made a conscious decision to be a parent and not a friend. Now, my son tells me often how he appreciates the way he was raised and he did not like me all the time back in those days.
There are no limits to personal responsibility. Nobody is exempt.
I don't think there is hate for today's youth. I think there is profound disgust with the system that has produced so many entitled people.
Quote from: supsalemgr on October 06, 2018, 04:38:28 AM
You make a good point. This situation with parenting did not begin yesterday. I saw it begin to happen the 70's when I was raising my kids. I made a conscious decision to be a parent and not a friend. Now, my son tells me often how he appreciates the way he was raised and he did not like me all the time back in those days.
There are no limits to personal responsibility. Nobody is exempt.
I don't think there is hate for today's youth. I think there is profound disgust with the system that has produced so many entitled people.
:thumbsup:
Totally agree with this. The parent(s) is playing a dual role. Dual relationships such as this is a huge mistakes. Parents should be parents to kids and not friends. Friends should be friends and not parents. Teachers should be teachers not friends or parents. Schools should only concentrate on what they're designed to do which is teaching academics not giving career advice (only exception that may exist is if the student wants to work in academia one day). Get rid of the guidance counselors. Doctors should be doctors to their patients and not their friends, lovers, and the child of a doctor should not be their patient (to much emotional involvement.)
Keep all of these roles separate from each other.
So far it seems to be a "she said, they said" kind of thing.
From the OP;
QuoteThe chief information officer for West Gate said in a statement:
"There is no district or individual school policy prohibiting teachers from recording a grade of zero for work not turned in. The district's uniform grading system utilizes letter grades a-f, numerical grades 100 to zero and grade point averages from four to zero."
Ranb
DISCLAIMER: I am one of 'those'.. a citizen who has been intensely involved in and conscious of a lot of educational (edumacational to some) issues for years and I have come to a couple of conclusions- some of which are not universally embraced.
1) Our present system of educating our children is almost a total failure.
2) The failure(s) of the public school systems are due to several factors, some of which were dutifully mentioned here previously.
IDENTIFIED SOURCES FOR THOSE FAILURES: A) Destruction of the traditional family structure and a corresponding drive against any moral/religious grounding for the kids.
B) About the 1970s educators were ordered and trained to believe that a child's 'self esteem' was all important. Feelings trumped all else, everyone got trophies, all kids were geniuses, all kids passed with 'honors', etc.
C) Adults with children just handed off all responsibilities regarding curricula, methodology, etc. to a quasi-political gang called a school board.
D) All the above, plus the BS our kids get in their outrageously expensive indoctrination in colleges, builds and reinforces an air of false expectations devoid of almost all reality which, when tested in the real world, makes the kids angry, frustrated, nasty, failures. So, they become hard core socialist/democrats. (Pretty much, anyhow.)
That teacher assigning a touch of reality to the child who did nothing and got his/her zero.. well, she was definitely one to be shouted down, fired, destroyed. Perhaps she should feel lucky those of that <ahem> school board did not try to burn her at a stake.
Quote from: Belenus on October 08, 2018, 08:33:15 AM
DISCLAIMER: I am one of 'those'.. a citizen who has been intensely involved in and conscious of a lot of educational (edumacational to some) issues for years and I have come to a couple of conclusions- some of which are not universally embraced.
1) Our present system of educating our children is almost a total failure.
2) The failure(s) of the public school systems are due to several factors, some of which were dutifully mentioned here previously.
IDENTIFIED SOURCES FOR THOSE FAILURES: A) Destruction of the traditional family structure and a corresponding drive against any moral/religious grounding for the kids.
B) About the 1970s educators were ordered and trained to believe that a child's 'self esteem' was all important. Feelings trumped all else, everyone got trophies, all kids were geniuses, all kids passed with 'honors', etc.
C) Adults with children just handed off all responsibilities regarding curricula, methodology, etc. to a quasi-political gang called a school board.
D) All the above, plus the BS our kids get in their outrageously expensive indoctrination in colleges, builds and reinforces an air of false expectations devoid of almost all reality which, when tested in the real world, makes the kids angry, frustrated, nasty, failures. So, they become hard core socialist/democrats. (Pretty much, anyhow.)
That teacher assigning a touch of reality to the child who did nothing and got his/her zero.. well, she was definitely one to be shouted down, fired, destroyed. Perhaps she should feel lucky those of that <ahem> school board did not try to burn her at a stake.
A very good summation of what government education has become and how it got to this point. :thumbup:
Thanks.
I should also have mentioned, however, that those who are most likely to fail in the job market are those holding 'Liberal Arts' (as in Women's Studies/Black Studies), "Social Justice" diplomas, etc. in their tender fists.
Grads with solid math and science diplomas usually do much better.
Quote from: alienhand on October 05, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
And, did this happen in vacuum? Who was in charge of them? Who raised them? Where did they spend a good portion of their lives? Who were the ones put horseshit into their head? This is the problem with personal responsibility. We want to give those on the last link the entire pie. Shouldn't these others on the other links on the chain be made accountable as well? If not, why not?
Shouldn't personal responsibility be applied across the board?
And, why this deep profound hate for today's youth?
Not sure where you would conclude I have a profound hate for today's youth. I feel sorry for them not hate. They are a product of how they were raised and how society has evolved. They have not learned that life can kick you in the teeth sometimes and that just because they want something doesn't mean they are entitled to get it. And I also think that they fail to understand that some of life's lessons can only be learned by living. So by 18 there are a lot of lessons to be learned. I think this is a product of parents want to protect their kids from harm of any kind. As our country got more wealthy more and more could be provided and less and less expected in return. I had more than my parents had yet only had 3 pair of dress pants and two pairs of shoes. One for school and one for play. No phone, no laptop, no game station and I had to do things around the house is I wanted to get an allowance. twenty five cents. But far less was expected of me than was expected when my parents were children and I tried to make sure my kids had what they desired. The result was kids that took a long time to realize that once they are away from their childhood that everything is not a handout and had to learn that something that got the job done was better than nothing. I am talking about a car that they said they could not drive because it was not nice enough. In time they ended up driving in a much worse car and learned to appreciate it and work towards making sure they could get a better one.
I have managed quite a few kids and I always encourage them to do as much as they can and make sure they have real value to their employer. The ones who did that and were willing to accept that as a good worker they would get more than those who were not so good, eventually moved ahead and receive the rewards for their work ethic.
In another post you talk about not getting employed because of this and that being unfair. Question to you, would you eat at a restaurant where the cook was not too concerned with washing including hand washing, believed in the 10 second rule, was not concerned about sweating on the grill or thought a quick rinse of the plate was enough to clean it? Part of getting a job is being aware that some things are expected behaviour and being able to carryout those behaviours. It is a society and certain behavior is part of the requirement in certain settings. Perhaps there are positions where a weak handshake and not paying attention to the person interviewing you is just fine. Doubt it and I do doubt that anyone lost a job because of a handshake. In my experience you learn that some people have disabilities or health issues so you have to read the other person and adjust how firm or soft your grip is.
I think that you may be served well by considering that one of the most dangerous people you may be associated with are those who do not know what they do not know.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Not sure where you would conclude I have a profound hate for today's youth. I feel sorry for them not hate. They are a product of how they were raised and how society has evolved. They have not learned that life can kick you in the teeth sometimes and that just because they want something doesn't mean they are entitled to get it. And I also think that they fail to understand that some of life's lessons can only be learned by living. So by 18 there are a lot of lessons to be learned. I think this is a product of parents want to protect their kids from harm of any kind. As our country got more wealthy more and more could be provided and less and less expected in return. I had more than my parents had yet only had 3 pair of dress pants and two pairs of shoes. One for school and one for play. No phone, no laptop, no game station and I had to do things around the house is I wanted to get an allowance. twenty five cents. But far less was expected of me than was expected when my parents were children and I tried to make sure my kids had what they desired. The result was kids that took a long time to realize that once they are away from their childhood that everything is not a handout and had to learn that something that got the job done was better than nothing. I am talking about a car that they said they could not drive because it was not nice enough. In time they ended up driving in a much worse car and learned to appreciate it and work towards making sure they could get a better one.
I have managed quite a few kids and I always encourage them to do as much as they can and make sure they have real value to their employer. The ones who did that and were willing to accept that as a good worker they would get more than those who were not so good, eventually moved ahead and receive the rewards for their work ethic.
In another post you talk about not getting employed because of this and that being unfair. Question to you, would you eat at a restaurant where the cook was not too concerned with washing including hand washing, believed in the 10 second rule, was not concerned about sweating on the grill or thought a quick rinse of the plate was enough to clean it? Part of getting a job is being aware that some things are expected behaviour and being able to carryout those behaviours. It is a society and certain behavior is part of the requirement in certain settings. Perhaps there are positions where a weak handshake and not paying attention to the person interviewing you is just fine. Doubt it and I do doubt that anyone lost a job because of a handshake. In my experience you learn that some people have disabilities or health issues so you have to read the other person and adjust how firm or soft your grip is.
I think that you may be served well by considering that one of the most dangerous people you may be associated with are those who do not know what they do not know.
Agree.
And your last line is very true, just look at libs in school, "Bubble Dwellers", they are hive minded, have no clue how the real world works, but this can be good, because at some point in life, life hits them and they realize what they were taught, was all a big ass lie.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Not sure where you would conclude I have a profound hate for today's youth.
1. When I meant you in this case I meant the generalized you.
2. When I read different forums, websites, etc I perceive a profound hatred including here. It is possible that I'm misperceving what is being conveyed.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
I feel sorry for them not hate. They are a product of how they were raised and how society has evolved.
I agree with you here.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
They have not learned that life can kick you in the teeth sometimes and that just because they want something doesn't mean they are entitled to get it.
I don't understand how life can be sentient and can have teeth unless you're using figurative language and a figure of speech. I'm going to assume that it means that life is probabilistic not absolute. Just to be on the safe side. I can take what others say very literally and may not realize it. Example: If you complete high school and don't use drugs you're more likely to succeed. If you use drugs and don't get your high school diploma you're more likely to fail. Life has no guarantees except death.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
And I also think that they fail to understand that some of life's lessons can only be learned by living.
hmmm, this is a very interesting concept. If you don't mind, will please explain further? I can make a guess as to why. I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
So by 18 there are a lot of lessons to be learned. I think this is a product of parents want to protect their kids from harm of any kind. As our country got more wealthy more and more could be provided and less and less expected in return. I had more than my parents had yet only had 3 pair of dress pants and two pairs of shoes. One for school and one for play. No phone, no laptop, no game station and I had to do things around the house is I wanted to get an allowance. twenty five cents. But far less was expected of me than was expected when my parents were children and I tried to make sure my kids had what they desired. The result was kids that took a long time to realize that once they are away from their childhood that everything is not a handout and had to learn that something that got the job done was better than nothing. I am talking about a car that they said they could not drive because it was not nice enough. In time they ended up driving in a much worse car and learned to appreciate it and work towards making sure they could get a better one.
I understand what you're saying.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
I have managed quite a few kids and I always encourage them to do as much as they can and make sure they have real value to their employer. The ones who did that and were willing to accept that as a good worker they would get more than those who were not so good, eventually moved ahead and receive the rewards for their work ethic.
If you said that to me I would have problems interpreting your message. The reason is because I would find it to vague. What does it mean to do as much as one can? Example: If someone told me I was rude I would need specifics as to how I was rude. Another example: Let's say I wanted to be a plumber or wanted to be in IT what specific steps must one take. Another example: What is the proper way to take initiative? How would one know what one is allowed to do or not do? If I find a better way of doing something am I allowed to do that? What are my constraints?
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
In another post you talk about not getting employed because of this and that being unfair.
I don't remember which post. But, I can tell you why I don't think I can get a job in today's world. It is due to my disability. I'm on the autism spectrum. As simply as I can put it. 1. I take to long to complete tasks. 2. I have problems with reading and especially with verbal comprehension. 3. I take things to literally. 4. I have motor coordination problems. 5. I have executive functioning issues. 6. bouts of extreme depression.
So, I can understand why others would not want to hire me. What I desire from others is help to be able to function including being able to obtain and keep a job. If this is not possible then can I really live a fruitful life without simply burning time as Solar called it? If not, there is no point in continuing my existence.
New International Version - Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
If one can't work due to one's disability when the Bible says one doesn't work one doesn't eat. If one's mind causes one to sin then wouldn't suicide be the most noble choice of all. Is it not better to kill oneself then to sin and end up in hell?
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Question to you, would you eat at a restaurant where the cook was not too concerned with washing including hand washing, believed in the 10 second rule, was not concerned about sweating on the grill or thought a quick rinse of the plate was enough to clean it?
I definitely would not.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Part of getting a job is being aware that some things are expected behaviour and being able to carryout those behaviours. It is a society and certain behavior is part of the requirement in certain settings. Perhaps there are positions where a weak handshake and not paying attention to the person interviewing you is just fine. Doubt it and I do doubt that anyone lost a job because of a handshake. In my experience you learn that some people have disabilities or health issues so you have to read the other person and adjust how firm or soft your grip is.
So, why tell someone to be themselves when it is not true? If one has to display a set of behaviors and be on one's best behavior as defined by others with no vote in it then how can anyone logically be themselves? It makes no sense and I don't get this dichotomy that exists in our society. This is another example of Orwellian Doublethink.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
I think that you may be served well by considering that one of the most dangerous people you may be associated with are those who do not know what they do not know.
Oh, I definitely agree. That's why I'm here. When I'm in a forum of either those on the autism spectrum or socialist/liberals then I'm simply in an echo chamber with others agreeing with my sentiments. How can one grow and gain more wisdom and knowledge if one is in his echo chamber who believes they know but they really don't know and don't know that they don't know? That's why I come here and ask questions.
(certainty=questionable)Right now, I do accept certain things truths including what I think is true for myself and that is I don't believe I can function in society. I believe my disability is to severe. It might be possible with guidance and assistance but even you said and I'm paraphrasing that some things must be experienced to be taught. If I don't think like you or others then won't min interpretation of my experiences be different then those around me? How can I learn the correct lessons then if we're seeing different shades of colors? If we were in an earlier time period the fact of the matter is I would more then likely institutionalized receiving shock treatment or I would be kept hidden away in the basement or the attic. (Similar to Boo Radley in the book "To Kill a Mockingbird." This isn't based upon my experiences. If you look up disabilities and employment on the Bureau of Labor Statistics you will see that the majority of those with any kind of disability are either unemployed or not in the labor force.
I accept that life is not fair and none of us always gets what we want. I accept that nothing is guaranteed. What I don't accept to be factually true is that we make or control our destiny and everyone and anyone can succeed and support themselves. This idea that our society accepts as truth belies and contradicts logic, truth and reality itself. Even ancient Sparta with its brutality and its methods towards those with disabilities had premises that made more sense then this. They accepted that not everyone born would be able to function in their given society. And, I think Sparta was a horrible society. (/certainty)
What I said in between the (certainty=questionable) and (/certainty) I could be wrong about. It could be possible that I'm to negative in my thoughts. I accept this as possible. If I'm wrong on anything then please show me.
I was just thinking about this? Does Be yourself come from the self-esteem movement and if it does should I just put that advice in the shit can with all of the rest of the advice from the self-esteem movement?
Quote from: alienhand on October 09, 2018, 04:25:49 AM
I was just thinking about this? Does Be yourself come from the self-esteem movement and if it does should I just put that advice in the shit can with all of the rest of the advice from the self-esteem movement?
Ya know, instead of asking so many questions,, you need to be doing a shit load of reading, start with the bible, then maybe Shakespeare and on to Samuel Clemons, you know , the classics.
All these metaphors will be contained within.
The one you inquire about goes back to the beginning of time, be it dating or meeting a new tribe, pretentious has always been a dead give away as phony and lying about oneself.
Being a Conservative is always about being true to yourself and not putting on an air or facade.
Quote from: Solar on October 09, 2018, 07:22:37 AM
Ya know, instead of asking so many questions,, you need to be doing a shit load of reading, start with the bible, then maybe Shakespeare and on to Samuel Clemons, you know , the classics.
All these metaphors will be contained within.
The one you inquire about goes back to the beginning of time, be it dating or meeting a new tribe, pretentious has always been a dead give away as phony and lying about oneself.
Being a Conservative is always about being true to yourself and not putting on an air or facade.
I've read The adventures of Tom Sawyer and the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in school. And, his pen name is Mark Twain. I've also read Gulliver's Travelers and a Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift.
I've also read Fahrenheit 451 as well and read the short story By the waters of Babylon.
As for the Bible, I've read parts of it and had difficulty understanding some of it. Some of it makes no sense and some of it is chocked full of metaphors that I find difficult to get. For example was man and woman created together or separately?
As for Shakespeare I find the way he writes as unintelligible just like the wealth of nations by Adam Smith. They're even more unintelligible then people today. I do understand and get Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare though but it just seemed so stupid though. The Montagues and Capulets fought and feuded and for what? What was the point? And, it seemed like both sides just took pot shots at each other over nothings and slight offenses. And, then Romeo and Juliet make the most craziest of plans without really thinking any thing through. Love makes people do the stupidest of things. How is love always a force for good? The whole thing was tragic. People let their emotions rule them. No sense of control at all. So much stupidity and tragedy and the characters were so foolish.
Quote from: alienhand on October 09, 2018, 08:19:42 AM
I've read The adventures of Tom Sawyer and the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in school. And, his pen name is Mark Twain. I've also read Gulliver's Travelers and a Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift.
I've also read Fahrenheit 451 as well and read the short story By the waters of Babylon.
As for the Bible, I've read parts of it and had difficulty understanding some of it. Some of it makes no sense and some of it is chocked full of metaphors that I find difficult to get. For example was man and woman created together or separately?
As for Shakespeare I find the way he writes as unintelligible just like the wealth of nations by Adam Smith. They're even more unintelligible then people today. I do understand and get Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare though but it just seemed so stupid though. The Montagues and Capulets fought and feuded and for what? What was the point? And, it seemed like both sides just took pot shots at each other over nothings and slight offenses. And, then Romeo and Juliet make the most craziest of plans without really thinking any thing through. Love makes people do the stupidest of things. How is love always a force for good? The whole thing was tragic. People let their emotions rule them. No sense of control at all. So much stupidity and tragedy and the characters were so foolish.
Then rent the videos if you can't follow along. Commonsense has to be developed.
Alienhand getting kicked in the teeth is just a saying that means that bad things can happen. Experience in life is the best teacher and reading as Solar said is one way understanding life. In addition you need to live through something to gain experience from it. It is rare that a teen has experience everything at that age. I think you do not understand what most people on this site think when it comes to the current crop of young people. I guess it is irritating to hear them talk as if they understand the whole picture but their life and education has both led them to believe that they have all the answers while at the same time not really having all the information.
I think that you will get more understanding here than on any left leaning site. Conservatives believe strongly about individual freedoms, liberals just say they do but repress any thought other than what they think is acceptable.
As far as finding a job there are requirements for a business to make reasonable accommodations. So I think if you find the right support, I think you can find a job where your limitations can be accomodated. One of my favorite sayings is "better to be quiet and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." There is a lot of common sense and wisdom on this site. It is good to be a little skeptical and ask for further explanation and if you actually listen to what the response is you will begin to understand that this forum has a more realistic view of reality than you will find on any liberal site. They are selling some pie in the sky sentiment, based on feelings and assumptions that are totally unrealistic. If you get a group of people to determine how to run a business and not the people who risked it all to start it and had the drive to keep the doors open I do not expect that they will accept all for one and one for all. The smartest or hardest working person is not going to OK with getting the same value for their work as the person who sits in the corner reading comic books or to be current staring at their phone.
Watch videos and you will see that the far left is more about shouting people down and repeating mantras than discussing details.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
Alienhand getting kicked in the teeth is just a saying that means that bad things can happen. Experience in life is the best teacher and reading as Solar said is one way understanding life. In addition you need to live through something to gain experience from it. It is rare that a teen has experience everything at that age. I think you do not understand what most people on this site think when it comes to the current crop of young people. I guess it is irritating to hear them talk as if they understand the whole picture but their life and education has both led them to believe that they have all the answers while at the same time not really having all the information.
I think that you will get more understanding here than on any left leaning site. Conservatives believe strongly about individual freedoms, liberals just say they do but repress any thought other than what they think is acceptable.
As far as finding a job there are requirements for a business to make reasonable accommodations. So I think if you find the right support, I think you can find a job where your limitations can be accomodated. One of my favorite sayings is "better to be quiet and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." There is a lot of common sense and wisdom on this site. It is good to be a little skeptical and ask for further explanation and if you actually listen to what the response is you will begin to understand that this forum has a more realistic view of reality than you will find on any liberal site. They are selling some pie in the sky sentiment, based on feelings and assumptions that are totally unrealistic. If you get a group of people to determine how to run a business and not the people who risked it all to start it and had the drive to keep the doors open I do not expect that they will accept all for one and one for all. The smartest or hardest working person is not going to OK with getting the same value for their work as the person who sits in the corner reading comic books or to be current staring at their phone.
Watch videos and you will see that the far left is more about shouting people down and repeating mantras than discussing details.
Well said. '
I might add, "Natural Law", "Core Values", understand and develop them. This is what makes a Conservative, understanding the simple fact our laws were not granted by men and the Left is literally the complete opposite.
They do not believe in individual freedoms.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
Alienhand getting kicked in the teeth is just a saying that means that bad things can happen. Experience in life is the best teacher and reading as Solar said is one way understanding life. In addition you need to live through something to gain experience from it. It is rare that a teen has experience everything at that age. I think you do not understand what most people on this site think when it comes to the current crop of young people. I guess it is irritating to hear them talk as if they understand the whole picture but their life and education has both led them to believe that they have all the answers while at the same time not really having all the information.
This is what I thought you were getting at. I never thought of it like that. Experience being a teacher. I think I am beginning to understand life a bit better. Life is not full of absolutes but full of probabilities. Experience can be the best teacher because without experience one may not have the bandwidth to understand what the other person is talking about. And, I could be biased in what I'm reading. What I read on here and other conservative sites is that millenials are entitled and narcissistic. And, to me that assertion is overly-simplistic. Entitled means person believes they are owed privileges and other things they did know they didn't earn. If they were led to believe doing a and b would earn them d and e then to me they can't be entitled. They were misled not entitled and to call them entitled is unreasonable. They, like yours truly, acted upon what they believed to be true and reasonable. Let's say we have a grocery worker who believes they should have a million dollars even though they know they didn't earn it. That's entitled. Millennials don't fit this bill or at least some of them don't.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
I think that you will get more understanding here than on any left leaning site. Conservatives believe strongly about individual freedoms, liberals just say they do but repress any thought other than what they think is acceptable.
Actually, I've had more conversation here then leftist sites and forums. When I questioned them on their value of tolerance and showed them how illogical it was with the paradox of tolerance I was banned instantly. Feminists expect us to call out their dudebros if they try to do shit to females. I said to them that it was fine. If one of their sisters do something to me or become out of line with me are they going to call them out. If a female hits me or tries to fight me
and since I'm not allowed to hit a woman are you as women going to step in on my behalf? If we're going to have equality which I agree with then can we consistent standards. I was ignored and banned by feminists.
I had a feminist on my facebook friends who was trying to accuse an autistic person like myself of rape or sexual assault. I asked for evidence of this and who the victim was. She said she had no obligation to tell me and wanted to protect the victim. She blocked me as well.
Let's look at Dave Rubin and the protestors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knv7ZwIBmvs Dave Rubin wanted to have a conversation and the protestors were vile and nasty towards the guy. If I was there, I would have tried to have a conversation with him and ask questions. This man is a Jewish, Gay, Male. If one doesn't agree 100% with the leftist, SJWs say you're considered a heretic.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
As far as finding a job there are requirements for a business to make reasonable accommodations. So I think if you find the right support, I think you can find a job where your limitations can be accomodated.
I wish I had help to do so. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. Maybe there is a God and he'll show me the way. I tried Voc Rehab which was a flop. I got nothing but the run around. But, right now, I don't think so.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
One of my favorite sayings is "better to be quiet and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I can't find to much fault to this. I will say this. If life experience is a great teacher then sometimes saying foolish things is the best way to learn if experience or others will prove you wrong or shit happens. It is the wise person who chooses to examine what he said, realize he fucked up and learn from it. I've said some foolish shit on here. I understand certain things a bit better.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
There is a lot of common sense and wisdom on this site. It is good to be a little skeptical and ask for further explanation and if you actually listen to what the response is you will begin to understand that this forum has a more realistic view of reality than you will find on any liberal site. They are selling some pie in the sky sentiment, based on feelings and assumptions that are totally unrealistic. If you get a group of people to determine how to run a business and not the people who risked it all to start it and had the drive to keep the doors open I do not expect that they will accept all for one and one for all. The smartest or hardest working person is not going to OK with getting the same value for their work as the person who sits in the corner reading comic books or to be current staring at their phone.
I accept all of this except for the idea of common sense. I accept the sense or really sound judgement part of it but the common part. Not so much. Sound judgement with some exceptions is situational. I've done things a certain way and I was told I lacked common sense. But, is it that I lacked common sense or is it that what would would for you would work for me? Maybe I can do something but it takes me 6 steps and for another person they take 3 steps. They would say I should've done it the 3 step way but what if I can't do it the 3 step way and I used my own sound judgement to do it the six step way b/c I more then likely would've screwed it up if I did it the 3 step way. The problem with the common part of common sense is that your red is my green. I don't see the world like everyone else and I don't interpret situations as others would. And, not everyone is alike. The common implies a universality that to me makes no sense in reality for a number of situations. Exceptions do exist.
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 09, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
Watch videos and you will see that the far left is more about shouting people down and repeating mantras than discussing details.
Oh, I have. Watch the Dave Rubin one.
I was hoping a teacher jumped into this thread but didn't see any? I've been married to a teacher too many years to mention. While not my full time occupation, I've tutored and taught school in technical areas and for the disabled, mostly technology use. Many friends and relatives are teachers. So when I read through this thread I felt like I had entered Oz. Lots of good sense and sensible comments but the main point of why this teacher was fired was missed. It has nothing (or little) to do with liberal or conservatives as defined today by our labeling and tribalism, which comes to be a substitute for thought and reality. My wife tells me that when they complained about this policy - this was many years ago in a parochial school - the principal's answer was - any guesses - we must do this to keep our students and to keep parents off our backs. I know that's not very deep or meaningful but economics matter in schools as they do in real life and parents today are... I'll leave it there for now for I'm sure many will disagree, but think of it this way, eventually the 50 grade learns or becomes a superior plumber and the 95 does well on their sats and becomes a member of.... One last thought, economics (school stays open) and flexibility matter in life - grades are soon forgotten. So my advice for this teacher, do your best, that's all you can do.
"Teaching, may I say, is the noblest profession of all in a democracy." Kurt Vonnegut
Quote from: midcan5 on October 10, 2018, 06:17:41 AM
I was hoping a teacher jumped into this thread but didn't see any? I've been married to a teacher too many years to mention. While not my full time occupation, I've tutored and taught school in technical areas and for the disabled, mostly technology use. Many friends and relatives are teachers. So when I read through this thread I felt like I had entered Oz. Lots of good sense and sensible comments but the main point of why this teacher was fired was missed. It has nothing (or little) to do with liberal or conservatives as defined today by our labeling and tribalism, which comes to be a substitute for thought and reality. My wife tells me that when they complained about this policy - this was many years ago in a parochial school - the principal's answer was - any guesses - we must do this to keep our students and to keep parents off our backs. I know that's not very deep or meaningful but economics matter in schools as they do in real life and parents today are... I'll leave it there for now for I'm sure many will disagree, but think of it this way, eventually the 50 grade learns or becomes a superior plumber and the 95 does well on their sats and becomes a member of.... One last thought, economics (school stays open) and flexibility matter in life - grades are soon forgotten. So my advice for this teacher, do your best, that's all you can do.
"Teaching, may I say, is the noblest profession of all in a democracy." Kurt Vonnegut
Public education has become the very definition of the left, Right paradigm where forming the minds of the future generation is concerned.
The left has, either accomplished their goal of dumbing down, or failing to educate, and this teacher is a perfect example.
The schools get paid regardless, and since most can't afford a substitute plan to educate their children, they're stuck with the leftist indoctrination system.
She was only thinking of the kids, something the leftist no longer care about.
Quote from: midcan5 on October 10, 2018, 06:17:41 AM
I was hoping a teacher jumped into this thread but didn't see any? I've been married to a teacher too many years to mention. While not my full time occupation, I've tutored and taught school in technical areas and for the disabled, mostly technology use. Many friends and relatives are teachers. So when I read through this thread I felt like I had entered Oz. Lots of good sense and sensible comments but the main point of why this teacher was fired was missed. It has nothing (or little) to do with liberal or conservatives as defined today by our labeling and tribalism, which comes to be a substitute for thought and reality. My wife tells me that when they complained about this policy - this was many years ago in a parochial school - the principal's answer was - any guesses - we must do this to keep our students and to keep parents off our backs. I know that's not very deep or meaningful but economics matter in schools as they do in real life and parents today are... I'll leave it there for now for I'm sure many will disagree, but think of it this way, eventually the 50 grade learns or becomes a superior plumber and the 95 does well on their sats and becomes a member of.... One last thought, economics (school stays open) and flexibility matter in life - grades are soon forgotten. So my advice for this teacher, do your best, that's all you can do.
"Teaching, may I say, is the noblest profession of all in a democracy." Kurt Vonnegut
I say IF they can not do it right shut it down. Or get people in the system that will do it right!
Quote from: Solar on October 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
Well said. '
I might add, "Natural Law", "Core Values", understand and develop them. This is what makes a Conservative, understanding the simple fact our laws were not granted by men and the Left is literally the complete opposite.
They do not believe in individual freedoms.
This is a key point that the left has no idea about. Rights are not granted to you but are inherent in being a human. Until I read a book I think called the founders, I had no idea what a brilliant document the constitution is. Never heard a lot of the logic in my public school education. It was a real turning point and why they do not teach anything like what I read in public school. The left including politicians calling for the end of the electoral college have no concept of what the consequences would be. Look at NY and talk to people in upstate NY and you will see that NY city dominates all the political decisions and they are ignored and cut short time and again. Get rid of the electoral college and a presidential candidate will never be seen again in Wyoming, Montana and many other states because the large population states would be enough to win an election. A look at a map by county who won the county looks almost entirely red, yet the high population counties swing a state to their way.
Oh my comment about remaining quite is also another way of saying listen. Many of us spend our time thinking about what we want to say and not listening to what others say.
Quote from: alienhand on October 05, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
And, why this deep profound hate for today's youth?
Quote from: raptor5618 on October 08, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Not sure where you would conclude I have a profound hate for today's youth.
I'll be the bad guy. I hate today's youths. I also hate today's adults. But I do hate today's youths.
They say one bad apple spoils the bunch. But what about 300? Rotten to the core!
An infant, child, youth (yoot) is to society what marble is to a stone carver, a field is to a farmer- one pretty much gets out of them what one invests in talent, sweat, perseverance.
Today's parents often come up to that rating kids love to level : they SUK. If the wee child has an absent father, siblings from several sperm donors, and an incompetent mother, we should not expect anything more than stone chips and weeds.
A lot of almost adults see 'mating' as a selfish act minus any consequences and if a potential child is the result, then that female often wants to slaughter it (public-funded abortion) so she will not have any responsibility in raising the kid. Child rearing is a 100%, 24/7 endeavor.. self-centered, hedonistic almost adults have not matured to that level... but NATURE says they can procreate.
Society has a failure to communicate with nature it seems.
Quote from: Belenus on October 10, 2018, 09:49:43 AM
An infant, child, youth (yoot) is to society what marble is to a stone carver, a field is to a farmer- one pretty much gets out of them what one invests in talent, sweat, perseverance.
Today's parents often come up to that rating kids love to level : they SUK. If the wee child has an absent father, siblings from several sperm donors, and an incompetent mother, we should not expect anything more than stone chips and weeds.
A lot of almost adults see 'mating' as a selfish act minus any consequences and if a potential child is the result, then that female often wants to slaughter it (public-funded abortion) so she will not have any responsibility in raising the kid. Child rearing is a 100%, 24/7 endeavor.. self-centered, hedonistic almost adults have not matured to that level... but NATURE says they can procreate.
Society has a failure to communicate with nature it seems.
Well said.
Quote from: Sick Of Silence on October 10, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
I'll be the bad guy. I hate today's youths. I also hate today's adults. But I do hate today's youths.
They say one bad apple spoils the bunch. But what about 300? Rotten to the core!
When I was young I believed in the peace protests, read Abby Hoffman's books and wondered why people were against socialism. I also was a Dem from the time I could vote until about 10 years ago.
I learned the foolishness of my youth as I think they will find that you are not entitled to anything and socialism be it the whole country or even a small group is probably not going to work out well. Everyone is not ready to accept being equal to everyone else. Useful idiots they are but I suspect that the majority of them will learn that what they think is common sense solutions is just BS or just wishful thinking. I do not hate quite so easily.
Quote from: Solar on October 09, 2018, 07:22:37 AM
Ya know, instead of asking so many questions,, you need to be doing a shit load of reading, start with the bible, then maybe Shakespeare and on to Samuel Clemons, you know , the classics.
All these metaphors will be contained within.
The one you inquire about goes back to the beginning of time, be it dating or meeting a new tribe, pretentious has always been a dead give away as phony and lying about oneself.
Being a Conservative is always about being true to yourself and not putting on an air or facade.
Well, let me ask you this. If being true to one self is to be detrimental to oneself or to others then what? What happens if being yourself leads to constant unemployment?
No, the problem with this hackneyed and retarded advice is that it does not allow for any improvement.
Yes, all of these people were wise but did they have all of the answers?
Quote from: alienhand on October 13, 2018, 02:12:44 AM
Well, let me ask you this. If being true to one self is to be detrimental to oneself or to others then what? What happens if being yourself leads to constant unemployment?
No, the problem with this hackneyed and retarded advice is that it does not allow for any improvement.
Yes, all of these people were wise but did they have all of the answers?
Again, instead of taking shit so literally and over think everything, and then posting, and show the world just how clueless you really are, take a moment and look up the meaning of being yourself.
It means to be honest, lose the facade of pretentiousness, pretending to be someone you're not. That doesn't mean you're still allowed to wipe your feces on the wall.
In your case, if being yourself is getting you fired, alienating friends, then maybe you need to keep your mouth shut, and keep them questioning your sanity.
That is what is known as etiquette. It's not actually knowing how to act in public settings, but rather keeping ones yap shut, so as not to remove all doubt in whether or not they wanted to get to know you better.
Not saying anything, means you still have one more chance at a good first impression.
Quote from: Solar on October 13, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
Not saying anything, means you still have one more chance at a good first impression.
And that needs to be taught in school! :thumbup:
Off the subject, but is deleting part of the quote in order to highlight the rest like I did above a no no?
Quote from: s3779m on October 13, 2018, 05:43:04 AM
And that needs to be taught in school! :thumbup:
Off the subject, but is deleting part of the quote in order to highlight the rest like I did above a no no?
I agree, etiquette is a dying art that needs to make a comeback. Telling people to stop and think, apply filters, look in the mirror and say out loud what you feel before you say it in public and can never take it back.
Nah, parsing is fine in cases such as this.
:smile: Solar, I don't really say much of anything if I'm with a group of people. Even though, I've wanted to say to some folks this is so stupid. You people are talking about some of the most stupidest of crap. I definitely can bite my tongue( I understand this figure of speech). Saying nothing has saved me from getting my ass beat plenty of times.
I do like the phrase discretion is better part of valor.
Quote from: Solar on October 13, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
Again, instead of taking shit so literally and over think everything, and then posting, and show the world just how clueless you really are, take a moment and look up the meaning of being yourself.
It means to be honest, lose the facade of pretentiousness, pretending to be someone you're not. That doesn't mean you're still allowed to wipe your feces on the wall.
Be honest and lose the facade of preteniousness: If one's boss comes up to you as an employee and asks how he's doing as a manager then if I'm honest, with no political correctness, and no pretenousness then if I think he or she is horrible as a manager and I state "I think you are a horrible as a manager and here are the reasons why" how do you think it will go over? Will I be considered an honest person or will I be considered a dick? Let's say I butter the boss up and then lie even if I lie by omission and I tell them the good things I do think about them. Then, am I not a liar and a dishonest person? Did I not put a taint on my soul as Socrates calls it? Damned if one does and damned if one doesn't. These are the type of situations we on the autism spectrum have difficulty with and this is one reason out of many why the bulk of us end up on SSDI and remain unemployed. For those like myself it is constantly heads we lose, tails we lose.
As for looking up the meaning, how do you know I haven't looked it up? I find the old shakespearan and other middle age text difficult to read even more difficult then modern neurotypical english. I've used cliff notes but the problem is the information I do glean out doesn't help with the questions I have and the issues I struggle with. This information was written by NTs for NTs not for those on the autism spectrum who do take things very literally, who has problems with figures of speech, who has issues with abstract language, misses nonverbal language and facial expressions, misses the tone in peoples voice, etc, etc. So, telling me to read things like the Bible that is chocked filled with metaphors which make parts of it difficult to read. The Bible from what I do grasp doesn't do well with contradictions and conflicts in the lessons themselves. Example: A child is expected to honor their mom and dad. Well, what if the dad is a pedophile? If Jesus is the head of the husband and the husband is expected to be the head of the household and the wife has authority over the children then God we have a problem. What if hubby goes against what Jesus says or both parents go against what Jesus says? Like, what if the parents encourage their kids to steal. And, there are cases like this. What if a parent telling a child to do something would put the child in danger? Is the child expected to still obey? The Bible is to absolutist and I don't see Jesus and God (is Jesus the son of God or is he God) coming down to clear things up any time soon since not everyone in the world seems to agree on what everything in the Bible seems to say.
Quote from: Solar on October 13, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
In your case, if being yourself is getting you fired, alienating friends, then maybe you need to keep your mouth shut, and keep them questioning your sanity.
This works a lot of times but then am I going to be considered standoffish? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Heads you lose, tails you lose.
Quote from: Solar on October 13, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
That is what is known as etiquette. It's not actually knowing how to act in public settings, but rather keeping ones yap shut, so as not to remove all doubt in whether or not they wanted to get to know you better.
Does it work in all cases? Am I going to be considered standoffish or an ass if I do this in some situations? I've been told the same messages you have like silence is golden and the advice about the fool. Sometimes, silence is not golden.
Look at #5 in cracked. http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-youre-accidentally-making-everyone-hate-you/
Not saying anything, means you still have one more chance at a good first impression.
You and others in the world are trying to present the moral, ethical and social code as simple when it really is not. Example: The moral code and "natural law" says murder is wrong. Yet, it never explains why it is wrong. You believe in what I will call the collective theory of life in that we created life here because in the spiritual realm we were bored. T-Hunt and others believe in a more traditional approach. They believe in a heaven and hell, believe we're all sinners meaning no one can obey everything God says 100% of the time, we need a savior who washes away our sins by believing in him and accepting him as our lord and savior. If you're correct Solar then by "murdering" said person didn't I just simply end his time here in "life" and send him back to the starting point which was the collective. Let's say T-Hunt is right and traditional Christanity is right. Supposedly, we choose by belief and not our actions whether we go to heaven or hell. Under T-Hunt and traditional Christanity's view if the person one murders chose correctly in life then all I did was send them to heaven. If they chose incorrectly then I sent them to hell. I simply expedited the "method of transportation." Why is murder wrong? If we end up back in the collective or we choose heaven and hell based upon our beliefs then natural law, rights, morality, goodness and evil, and rights seem arbitrary and meaningless. Why does it matter in the end? How does the intellectual rumination of all of these wise folks like the founding fathers really mean anything in the end?
Quote from: alienhand on October 13, 2018, 09:21:55 PM
Be honest and lose the facade of preteniousness: If one's boss comes up to you as an employee and asks how he's doing as a manager then if I'm honest, with no political correctness, and no pretenousness then if I think he or she is horrible as a manager and I state "I think you are a horrible as a manager and here are the reasons why" how do you think it will go over? Will I be considered an honest person or will I be considered a dick? Let's say I butter the boss up and then lie even if I lie by omission and I tell them the good things I do think about them. Then, am I not a liar and a dishonest person? Did I not put a taint on my soul as Socrates calls it? Damned if one does and damned if one doesn't. These are the type of situations we on the autism spectrum have difficulty with and this is one reason out of many why the bulk of us end up on SSDI and remain unemployed. For those like myself it is constantly heads we lose, tails we lose.
As for looking up the meaning, how do you know I haven't looked it up? I find the old shakespearan and other middle age text difficult to read even more difficult then modern neurotypical english. I've used cliff notes but the problem is the information I do glean out doesn't help with the questions I have and the issues I struggle with. This information was written by NTs for NTs not for those on the autism spectrum who do take things very literally, who has problems with figures of speech, who has issues with abstract language, misses nonverbal language and facial expressions, misses the tone in peoples voice, etc, etc. So, telling me to read things like the Bible that is chocked filled with metaphors which make parts of it difficult to read. The Bible from what I do grasp doesn't do well with contradictions and conflicts in the lessons themselves. Example: A child is expected to honor their mom and dad. Well, what if the dad is a pedophile? If Jesus is the head of the husband and the husband is expected to be the head of the household and the wife has authority over the children then God we have a problem. What if hubby goes against what Jesus says or both parents go against what Jesus says? Like, what if the parents encourage their kids to steal. And, there are cases like this. What if a parent telling a child to do something would put the child in danger? Is the child expected to still obey? The Bible is to absolutist and I don't see Jesus and God (is Jesus the son of God or is he God) coming down to clear things up any time soon since not everyone in the world seems to agree on what everything in the Bible seems to say.
Now you know why I don't follow any given religion. I do not believe in a Hell or Heaven.
Think about it, we come here a blank slate, the people that raise us instill a sense for survival, and if you live in a total slum, you're taught to steal and possibly kill for your survival.
This is the life you were given, you were not taught remorse, so how can one atone for sins they never knew they committed?
I do believe one can grow as an individual and rise above evil, even when they've been raised differently, as this is part off our development as individuals to discover and develop.
QuoteThis works a lot of times but then am I going to be considered standoffish? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Heads you lose, tails you lose.
Does it work in all cases? Am I going to be considered standoffish or an ass if I do this in some situations? I've been told the same messages you have like silence is golden and the advice about the fool. Sometimes, silence is not golden.
Look at #5 in cracked. http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-youre-accidentally-making-everyone-hate-you/
Not saying anything, means you still have one more chance at a good first impression.
You and others in the world are trying to present the moral, ethical and social code as simple when it really is not. Example: The moral code and "natural law" says murder is wrong. Yet, it never explains why it is wrong. You believe in what I will call the collective theory of life in that we created life here because in the spiritual realm we were bored. T-Hunt and others believe in a more traditional approach. They believe in a heaven and hell, believe we're all sinners meaning no one can obey everything God says 100% of the time, we need a savior who washes away our sins by believing in him and accepting him as our lord and savior. If you're correct Solar then by "murdering" said person didn't I just simply end his time here in "life" and send him back to the starting point which was the collective. Let's say T-Hunt is right and traditional Christanity is right. Supposedly, we choose by belief and not our actions whether we go to heaven or hell. Under T-Hunt and traditional Christanity's view if the person one murders chose correctly in life then all I did was send them to heaven. If they chose incorrectly then I sent them to hell. I simply expedited the "method of transportation." Why is murder wrong? If we end up back in the collective or we choose heaven and hell based upon our beliefs then natural law, rights, morality, goodness and evil, and rights seem arbitrary and meaningless. Why does it matter in the end? How does the intellectual rumination of all of these wise folks like the founding fathers really mean anything in the end?
I don't think you understand the meaning of murder. Is war murder, is taking a life of another to save someone murder?
But to take a life for no reason? This is what society deems as murder, and if we were to follow the "eye for an eye" rule, this individual sacrificed his right to his own life.
Society has always tried to find peace in a chaotic world, and the threat of death has always been one way of keeping violence at a minimum.
When I speak of the Bible, I refer to the First Testament, like many of the era, the rewriting of the bible was considered blasphemous to the word of God. Battles were fought over it.
The bible is a history book with proverbs, story's designed in a metaphorical manner so even the most common of man can grasp with a moral overtone and understanding of Natural law.
Before Jesus came along, God apparently stated quite clearly, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", meaning you worship and follow his word only, which raises the question, why would God say one thing, then break his trust with us by going back on his word, was King James wrong for rewriting the Bible and claiming we worship Jesus as a intermediary, much like the Catholic Church does in the hierarchical approach for blessings?
I don't know, so I bypass it all and speak directly to God, whom not once steered me wrong, for I have led a blessed life, and if I were a sinner for not believing one religion over another, he would have made it quite clear early on and I wouldn't have been able to retire in my 40s in one of the most beautiful and serene places on earth.
All I have achieved in life came with the blessing of God, I listened to God, not people as I traveled and stumbled through life, people were my own worst enemy, they would have strayed me off the path God had for me, though he did place 'angels' (for a lack of better descriptive) in my path to help me as well.
God will tell you who to listen to, trust his guidance.
Doing what you believe is right, is all you can do, this will keep your spirit intact, regret is an enemy of the soul, anyway, that's what I believe, so don't do anything you might regret, something you know for a fact to be wrong. Your soul will suffer as will you all because you knew it was wrong.
Hey, I'll admit, I could be wrong on all of this, but I don't believe God lied to me when he said I had things to do and returned me to earth, because looking back at events in my life since that one particular day, have proven to me I was doing God's work.
We all have a purpose, so find yours, talk to God and ask for guidance, even if you think it's a joke, try it and see what path you're set upon.
To not listen to God, to follow your own narrow path in life, means you will remain stuck in a rut and a coward to living life.
Listen to God and don't be afraid.