Taxed (et al) --

Taking a break from my primary occupation and will try to explain my strong preference for a Presidential Candidate who has executive experience, specifically, or at least especially, at the CEO level.

There is an olde saying that "Leaders are born, not made."  That saying is wrong -- at least in its intent.  It helps if they're born with certain attributes -- like decent intellect -- but from there on it's all about life.  Most of the attributes required to develop as an effective leader are acquired early in life:  healthy ego, persistence, moral values, decisiveness and others too numerous to mention.  Those attributes can be latent unless there is a demand for them.  It's like saying Tom Brady was born to be a great quarterback, but, if he had taken up tennis, he would never have spent the countless hours actually becoming the great quarterback that he is.

Executive skills are learned, developed and honed through experience.  They are usually best learned in adverse circumstances.  These are some of the skills and attributes I think are important (in no particular order):

*  Ability to communicate effectively.
*  Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you.
*  Giving those people the freedom to accomplish your goals their way.
*  Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong.
*  Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit.
*  Learning to accept temporary setbacks as long as you are advancing toward the goal.
*  Know what your core values are; let others know, and never violate them.
*  It is important that people know what you stand for.  It is, perhaps, more important that they know what you will not stand for.
*  Learning to prioritize and how to choose what to do because you can't do everything.
*  Selecting between competing agendas.
*  Knowing that there is no right way to do a wrong thing.
*  Understand that a person may be appointed to high position, but never to leadership.  Leaders are effective only through the authority conferred on them by those upon whom they depend for results.
*  Learning to comparmentalize both your thoughts and your activities -- otherwise, nothing gets done.
*  Borrow from Truman a sign that says "The buck stops here."
*  Understand and accept that sometimes you will be forced to choose between two highly undesirable alternatives.

I could go on, but don't want to sound too preachy.

The American Presidency is the most demanding, most complex CEO job in the world.  I strongly prefer that its occupant have learned and honed his skills elsewhere.  It's not a place for OJT. 

I think I will leave it there for now and go back to my main job.

Take care,

Russ Walden

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Taxed (et al) --

Taking a break from my primary occupation and will try to explain my strong preference for a Presidential Candidate who has executive experience, specifically, or at least especially, at the CEO level.

There is an olde saying that "Leaders are born, not made."  That saying is wrong -- at least in its intent.  It helps if they're born with certain attributes -- like decent intellect -- but from there on it's all about life.  Most of the attributes required to develop as an effective leader are acquired early in life:  healthy ego, persistence, moral values, decisiveness and others too numerous to mention.  Those attributes can be latent unless there is a demand for them.  It's like saying Tom Brady was born to be a great quarterback, but, if he had taken up tennis, he would never have spent the countless hours actually becoming the great quarterback that he is.

Executive skills are learned, developed and honed through experience.  They are usually best learned in adverse circumstances.  These are some of the skills and attributes I think are important (in no particular order):

*  Ability to communicate effectively.
*  Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you.
*  Giving those people the freedom to accomplish your goals their way.
*  Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong.
*  Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit.
*  Learning to accept temporary setbacks as long as you are advancing toward the goal.
*  Know what your core values are; let others know, and never violate them.
*  It is important that people know what you stand for.  It is, perhaps, more important that they know what you will not stand for.
*  Learning to prioritize and how to choose what to do because you can't do everything.
*  Selecting between competing agendas.
*  Knowing that there is no right way to do a wrong thing.
*  Understand that a person may be appointed to high position, but never to leadership.  Leaders are effective only through the authority conferred on them by those upon whom they depend for results.
*  Learning to comparmentalize both your thoughts and your activities -- otherwise, nothing gets done.
*  Borrow from Truman a sign that says "The buck stops here."
*  Understand and accept that sometimes you will be forced to choose between two highly undesirable alternatives.

I could go on, but don't want to sound too preachy.

The American Presidency is the most demanding, most complex CEO job in the world.  I strongly prefer that its occupant have learned and honed his skills elsewhere.  It's not a place for OJT. 

I think I will leave it there for now and go back to my main job.

Take care,

Russ Walden

Good list Russ.
I guess if anything, one could point out how this makes a case for Cruz and eliminates Trump.
For example, ego is not a requirement, Hell, it's a disability, moral values, now there's a solid and eliminating strike against Trump, "decisiveness"? Definitely a strike against the guy whose flipped on every issue he's run on so far.

"Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you."
Based on his team thus far, Trump fails again.

This one made me laugh out loud.
"Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong."

"Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit."......
I see no reason to go on, but obviously you no longer support Trump.

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Taxed (et al) --

Taking a break from my primary occupation and will try to explain my strong preference for a Presidential Candidate who has executive experience, specifically, or at least especially, at the CEO level.

There is an olde saying that "Leaders are born, not made."  That saying is wrong -- at least in its intent.  It helps if they're born with certain attributes -- like decent intellect -- but from there on it's all about life.  Most of the attributes required to develop as an effective leader are acquired early in life:  healthy ego, persistence, moral values, decisiveness and others too numerous to mention.  Those attributes can be latent unless there is a demand for them.  It's like saying Tom Brady was born to be a great quarterback, but, if he had taken up tennis, he would never have spent the countless hours actually becoming the great quarterback that he is.

Executive skills are learned, developed and honed through experience.  They are usually best learned in adverse circumstances.  These are some of the skills and attributes I think are important (in no particular order):

*  Ability to communicate effectively.
*  Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you.
*  Giving those people the freedom to accomplish your goals their way.
*  Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong.
*  Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit.
*  Learning to accept temporary setbacks as long as you are advancing toward the goal.
*  Know what your core values are; let others know, and never violate them.
*  It is important that people know what you stand for.  It is, perhaps, more important that they know what you will not stand for.
*  Learning to prioritize and how to choose what to do because you can't do everything.
*  Selecting between competing agendas.
*  Knowing that there is no right way to do a wrong thing.
*  Understand that a person may be appointed to high position, but never to leadership.  Leaders are effective only through the authority conferred on them by those upon whom they depend for results.
*  Learning to comparmentalize both your thoughts and your activities -- otherwise, nothing gets done.
*  Borrow from Truman a sign that says "The buck stops here."
*  Understand and accept that sometimes you will be forced to choose between two highly undesirable alternatives.

I could go on, but don't want to sound too preachy.

The American Presidency is the most demanding, most complex CEO job in the world.  I strongly prefer that its occupant have learned and honed his skills elsewhere.  It's not a place for OJT. 

I think I will leave it there for now and go back to my main job.

Take care,

Russ Walden

Good post. I suggest everyone take a self test and ask how his points apply to Obama.

Quote from: Solar on April 30, 2016, 03:03:08 PM
1.   . . .  this makes a case for Cruz and eliminates Trump.
2.   ego is not a requirement, Hell, it's a disability,
3.  "Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong."
4.  . . . obviously you no longer support Trump.

Solar --

1.  That was not my conscious intent, but I always knew it would.
2  Another view:  A strong, healthy ego is a necessary ingredient.  A healthy ego is the underpinning for personal confidence.
3.  I could have elaborated there:  Failures are expressed in "I" terms; successes are expressed in "we" or "you" terms.

4.  You should keep saying that as long as it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but I never did, and still don't, support Trump.  I voted for Cruz and am making approx semi-monthly donations to his campaign.  He's on my twice monthly "pay my bills" list.   Can't do much else to help him around here.  My neighbors, broadly speaking, are so conservative that our Congressman ran unopposed in the last General Election.  Same thing with state level candidates -- House and Senate.  Trump carried Georgia in the popular vote, but not here.  If it gets to a 2nd ballot, Cruz will own Georgia.

What I actually did say about Trump, and am willing to repeat, is that, come November, if I am faced with a Trump/Hillary (or any other Dem) choice, I will vote for Trump.

Yeah, I wish Cruz had some genuine executive experience, but he doesn't.  I can deal with it.  He has done some somewhat similar things:  His management of the Supreme Court cases was superb and his management of his campaign has been masterful.  That's what I got and I'll take it.  He hits all the other points on my hotlist, and he sure as hell ain't no quitter!

Take care,
Russ

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 03:43:41 PM
Solar --

1.  That was not my conscious intent, but I always knew it would.
2  Another view:  A strong, healthy ego is a necessary ingredient.  A healthy ego is the underpinning for personal confidence.
3.  I could have elaborated there:  Failures are expressed in "I" terms; successes are expressed in "we" or "you" terms.

4.  You should keep saying that as long as it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but I never did, and still don't, support Trump.  I voted for Cruz and am making approx semi-monthly donations to his campaign.  He's on my twice monthly "pay my bills" list.   Can't do much else to help him around here.  My neighbors, broadly speaking, are so conservative that our Congressman ran unopposed in the last General Election.  Same thing with state level candidates -- House and Senate.  Trump carried Georgia in the popular vote, but not here.  If it gets to a 2nd ballot, Cruz will own Georgia.

What I actually did say about Trump, and am willing to repeat, is that, come November, if I am faced with a Trump/Hillary (or any other Dem) choice, I will vote for Trump.

Yeah, I wish Cruz had some genuine executive experience, but he doesn't.  I can deal with it.  He has done some somewhat similar things:  His management of the Supreme Court cases was superb and his management of his campaign has been masterful.  That's what I got and I'll take it.  He hits all the other points on my hotlist, and he sure as hell ain't no quitter!

Take care,
Russ

I get that Russ, but my entire point is, Trump is not a Conservative, Hell, he's only a Pub because he chose to place an (R) next to his name, and the GOP'e is at fault for even allowing that nonsense in the first place.
There should be a litmus test, but then, if there was, half the party would have been denied entrance, as should have happened.

There is no way I will ever vote for another lib, which is why TEA has made historic inroads in 2010 and 2014, because we are done electing libs to the party. so if we were to cave and let Trump in, we just as well kiss the party good bye, because we just gave the Establishment what they wanted all along, another lib in the WH.

Quote from: Solar on April 30, 2016, 05:29:48 PMif we were to cave and let Trump in, we just as well kiss the party good bye,

Bingo!

Trump is also dangerous to the country.

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Taxed (et al) --

Taking a break from my primary occupation and will try to explain my strong preference for a Presidential Candidate who has executive experience, specifically, or at least especially, at the CEO level.

There is an olde saying that "Leaders are born, not made."  That saying is wrong -- at least in its intent.  It helps if they're born with certain attributes -- like decent intellect -- but from there on it's all about life.  Most of the attributes required to develop as an effective leader are acquired early in life:  healthy ego, persistence, moral values, decisiveness and others too numerous to mention.  Those attributes can be latent unless there is a demand for them.  It's like saying Tom Brady was born to be a great quarterback, but, if he had taken up tennis, he would never have spent the countless hours actually becoming the great quarterback that he is.

We're on the same page....

Quote
Executive skills are learned, developed and honed through experience.  They are usually best learned in adverse circumstances.  These are some of the skills and attributes I think are important (in no particular order):

I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down...

Quote
*  Ability to communicate effectively.

I'm not sure how having business experience has higher weight of say, a national debate champion, in terms of communication.  Trump fails at this in spades, by the way.  It is valuable if you learn it.

Quote
*  Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you.

Not specific to business.  These traits happen to help someone succeed in business, but they also help someone, say, assembling a team to argue before the Supreme Court.

Quote
*  Giving those people the freedom to accomplish your goals their way.

This isn't really an executive thing.  Too many CEOs, etc., have had problems and scandals, only to say "I had no idea what was going on!".  Like non-CEO Reagan said, "trust, but verify".  You let your underlings perform their tasks, but they must do so according to the standards and ethics you put in place, and there must be a mechanism to figure out why something went wrong, and how to diagnose it and perform a post-mortem.  This supports your point, and I agree with it, but it must be from someone with the competence to implement such a system, and Cruz has that light years over Trump, who can't even figure out the CO voting process, then blames Cruz.  (I assume we're operating under the false premise that Trump is an "executive").

Quote
*  Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong.

This is just what normal people do, and why Trump admits this is a sign of weakness, which is so stupid.

Quote
*  Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit.

The goal is indeed important, but very important that those who executed it should be given credit by the leader, which is important for moral and competition within your organization.  Managers and executives take credit for underlings ideas all the time.  This is not unlike why Cruz is having delegate success, because he's helping those delegates get elected as well, which is very important, while Donald has no idea what's going on.  Teamwork isn't exactly something Donnie is familiar with.

Quote
*  Learning to accept temporary setbacks as long as you are advancing toward the goal.

Cruz marches on.  Trump declares bankruptcy and blames others.  This is more of a life and maturity thing.

Quote
*  Know what your core values are; let others know, and never violate them.

This is a life/values thing.

Quote
*  It is important that people know what you stand for.  It is, perhaps, more important that they know what you will not stand for.

Another life thing, unrelated to business.

Quote
*  Learning to prioritize and how to choose what to do because you can't do everything.

Yes, this is a good skill to learn, and does indeed come with business experience.  It also comes with non-business experience.

Quote
*  Selecting between competing agendas.

Not isolated to business.

Quote
*  Knowing that there is no right way to do a wrong thing.

Not isolated to business.

Quote
*  Understand that a person may be appointed to high position, but never to leadership.  Leaders are effective only through the authority conferred on them by those upon whom they depend for results.

This explains why "businessman" Trump is running probably the most dysfunctional campaign ever.

Quote
*  Learning to comparmentalize both your thoughts and your activities -- otherwise, nothing gets done.

Not isolated to business.  Dr. Carson, for example, has this in spades.  But he's endorsing a complete moron.

Quote
*  Borrow from Truman a sign that says "The buck stops here."

Not inherent in business.  In fact, more often than not, the bucks stops with the guy under you so you fire him to sacrifice a head.

Quote
*  Understand and accept that sometimes you will be forced to choose between two highly undesirable alternatives.

Not isolated to business.

Quote
I could go on, but don't want to sound too preachy.

You laid out more good life lessons than an advantage a business person has.  A business person can fire someone, but not easy to do in, say, the Senate.  You can do it under the Executive Branch as President, but the "business experience", in that case, is more about reducing government and easing the restrictions on our freedoms, versus trying to hit your quarterlies.  What business experience relates to that?  Business experience doesn't teach you how to understand the Tenth Amendment, beyond what laws you must understand for your business.  An understanding and record of fighting for and arguing for the Constitution, along with an amazing understanding of free-market economics, to where you understand the government constricts the economy, is far more valuable than some CEO who happened to be dropped into an executive position by a Marxist-infiltrated board.  In Trump's case, his momma had sex with a rich man, and little Donnie was born successful.  It all went downhill from there.

Quote
The American Presidency is the most demanding, most complex CEO job in the world.  I strongly prefer that its occupant have learned and honed his skills elsewhere.  It's not a place for OJT.

You made the perfect case for why Trump would be the worst person for this job, beyond Hillary.  She at least saw the interworkings of an AG office, Governorship, and a Presidency.  Trump still has to be reminded that his vodka line is defunct.  By your standards, Hillary is more qualified than Donald.

Quote
I think I will leave it there for now and go back to my main job.

Good attempt, but not a lot there for how business experience really helps you.  You did post some good life lessons on how people should live, however.

Taxed --

You keep mentioning "business experience," but you are missing the point.  This is about "CEO experience."  A governor is a CEO.  None of what I wrote is exclusive to business.

You mention "non-CEO Reagan."  Are you forgetting that Reagan served two terms as Governor of California before he ran for President?

Take the blinders off and read it again.  You might get more out of it.

Regards,
Russ

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 07:24:48 PM
Taxed --

You keep mentioning "business experience," but you are missing the point.  This is about "CEO experience."  A governor is a CEO.  None of what I wrote is exclusive to business.

You mention "non-CEO Reagan."  Are you forgetting that Reagan served two terms as Governor of California before he ran for President?

Take the blinders off and read it again.  You might get more out of it.

Regards,
Russ

Correction noted.  And all still applies.  And to counter your argument, I submit to you, John Kasich.

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Taxed (et al) --

Taking a break from my primary occupation and will try to explain my strong preference for a Presidential Candidate who has executive experience, specifically, or at least especially, at the CEO level.

There is an olde saying that "Leaders are born, not made."  That saying is wrong -- at least in its intent.  It helps if they're born with certain attributes -- like decent intellect -- but from there on it's all about life.  Most of the attributes required to develop as an effective leader are acquired early in life:  healthy ego, persistence, moral values, decisiveness and others too numerous to mention.  Those attributes can be latent unless there is a demand for them.  It's like saying Tom Brady was born to be a great quarterback, but, if he had taken up tennis, he would never have spent the countless hours actually becoming the great quarterback that he is.

Executive skills are learned, developed and honed through experience.  They are usually best learned in adverse circumstances.  These are some of the skills and attributes I think are important (in no particular order):

*  Ability to communicate effectively.
*  Learning to select good people, and being willing to select people who don't always agree with you.
*  Giving those people the freedom to accomplish your goals their way.
*  Willingness to acknowledge when you are wrong.
*  Learning that accomplishing the goal is what's important -- not who gets the credit.
*  Learning to accept temporary setbacks as long as you are advancing toward the goal.
*  Know what your core values are; let others know, and never violate them.
*  It is important that people know what you stand for.  It is, perhaps, more important that they know what you will not stand for.
*  Learning to prioritize and how to choose what to do because you can't do everything.
*  Selecting between competing agendas.
*  Knowing that there is no right way to do a wrong thing.
*  Understand that a person may be appointed to high position, but never to leadership.  Leaders are effective only through the authority conferred on them by those upon whom they depend for results.
*  Learning to comparmentalize both your thoughts and your activities -- otherwise, nothing gets done.
*  Borrow from Truman a sign that says "The buck stops here."
*  Understand and accept that sometimes you will be forced to choose between two highly undesirable alternatives.

I could go on, but don't want to sound too preachy.

The American Presidency is the most demanding, most complex CEO job in the world.  I strongly prefer that its occupant have learned and honed his skills elsewhere.  It's not a place for OJT. 

I think I will leave it there for now and go back to my main job.

Take care,

Russ Walden

Having a grasp of the important issues also helps.

Quote from: taxed on April 30, 2016, 07:27:30 PM
1.   And all still applies. 
2.  And to counter your argument, I submit to you, John Kasich.

Taxed --

1.  No it doesn't.  You focused your whole response on the business side, under the apparent assumption that CEO means business.

2.  So what?  Kasich comes up short in a number of areas.  Just having CEO experience is not, in and of itself, a valuable attribute, but it is of considerable value when the others are in place.  That has been my point from the very beginning.

It's Ok to be wrong once in a while.  I usually handle that by saying, "Oh; I was wrong.  Thank you for pointing it out."

Regards,
Russ

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 08:19:14 PM
Taxed --

1.  No it doesn't.  You focused your whole response on the business side, under the apparent assumption that CEO means business.

I noted the premise I assumed we were under, which I thought spurred this whole thing.  Again, my responses still hold true under a private sector CEO or Governor.

Quote
2.  So what?  Kasich comes up short in a number of areas.  Just having CEO experience is not, in and of itself, a valuable attribute, but it is of considerable value when the others are in place.  That has been my point from the very beginning.

It's Ok to be wrong once in a while.  I usually handle that by saying, "Oh; I was wrong.  Thank you for pointing it out."

You're right, don't ever be ashamed for being wrong.  It's a good discussion.  To summarize my point, private or public sector CEO:

- Senator Ted Cruz is better than a Governor Kasich or Governor O'Malley.
- Governor Gregg Abbott is better than Senator Bernie Sanders.
- Senator Ted Cruz is better than a CEO Alan Grayson.

If you agree with these points, then you agree with my premise that executive experience doesn't carry additional weight.  Your points applied more or less to life lessons and how to live your life, not really what benefits an executive, public or private, brings to the Presidency.

Quote from: taxed on April 30, 2016, 08:33:28 PM
If you agree with these points, then you agree with my premise that executive experience doesn't carry additional weight.  Your points applied more or less to life lessons and how to live your life, not really what benefits an executive, public or private, brings to the Presidency.

Taxed --

No, not at all.  My point was not who is better than whom, but the value that certain experience brings to the equation.

Unless someone else got value from it, I just wasted my time.  Oh, well, not the first; not the last.

Take care,
Russ Walden

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 08:40:02 PM
Taxed --

No, not at all.  My point was not who is better than whom, but the value that certain experience brings to the equation.

Unless someone else got value from it, I just wasted my time.  Oh, well, not the first; not the last.

Take care,
Russ Walden

No worries.  It's a topic I actually used to think that a businessman is better for the job, simply because I'm a businessman and, as a younger businessman, felt I just knew how the world works better then everyone else.  Yet, I couldn't raise a child on my own.  If someone had a medical emergency in front of my, I'd freeze.  I like to think I go all Jack Bauer on someone if they broke into my house, but maybe I'd freeze and shake if I had someone in my sights.  It could just be that your experience makes you think your particular vocation is more suited for the Presidency.  For pressure situations, I'd submit Dr. Carson would be best suited.  For communication and preserving our liberties, I'd argue Ted Cruz.   An academic might say Hussein, Sanders, or Warren is better suited.  A businessman might say Mitt Romney.  Over time, I've grown to understand that my skills as a businessman have their place, just like a mother's skills have a place, and a Doctor's skills have a place.  I've come to the realization that, for a President, it's about the person and your life skills, and knowledge of course, that makes a President -- not just business skills.

In the end, it takes an understanding of The Constitution, an understanding of free-market economics, how to communicate your message to the people, and the morals to do what's right and the personal conviction to do what you say you told your voters you would do, no matter what outside influences try to sway you.  You also need someone with the maturity and willingness to use war as a very last resort.  Ted Cruz is clearly the best out of everyone else.

Quote from: Solid Right on April 30, 2016, 08:40:02 PM
Taxed --

No, not at all. My point was not who is better than whom, but the value that certain experience brings to the equation.

Unless someone else got value from it, I just wasted my time.  Oh, well, not the first; not the last.

Take care,
Russ Walden

None of which is over ruled by Conservative values, something Trump completely lacks.