Quote from: supsalemgr on May 26, 2015, 01:21:20 PM
Please share who is the Serbs best friend and ally.

How do I know, I am not serb.
But, for sure, to qualify in the "Best friend" position, I think answer to question : "Did you reсently bomb the hell out this country, to help muslims" in the registration form for friendship, better be "No"....

Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2015, 05:52:03 AM
It's the same here in the US, the GOP is infested with the same scum in leadership positions, From the Speaker, on down, to old time members such as Stockholm Johnnie.
But their time is running out.

Oh and "I love Conservative Political Forum!" is default text, until they change it, they're stuck with it.

Ah, thank you for this explanation, I don't remember I had that personal text when I joined. But, if someone doesn't care to personalize his personal text, then it talks something, too.

Quote from: Dori on May 25, 2015, 10:19:39 AM
What are the politics in Serbia since Clinton bombed the you-know-what out of you?

Well, one of the reasons for bombing was to remove President Milošević. Actually, most people were against him, but during the bombing, as it always happens, people became more supportive of each other, the crimes were reduced to zero, and everyone was willing to help each other, a huge patriotic spirit was raised. So, in that circumstances, President Milošević regained the support he had at the beginning of his political career. But, what brought him down again, and proved fatal for him, was the fact he surrendered to NATO after 78 days of bombing. Because, most people were feeling we could win that war, and blamed President Milošević for treason. But, the so called "democratic" forces who gained the power after him, were even worse. They are the most ugly type of commies in disguise as "democrats", or, they are the same as Liberals in the USA. People were fooled once again. And it seems impossible to elect an honest politician, if there is any. So, we have a weird situation, where the opposition, both on the Left and on the Right, calls those "democrats" on power "liberal capitalists", and they want to return to some kind of socialism again, although we haven't seen any capitalism here since 1941.

And you surely understand why I wouldn't like to see another Clinton as the US president.

Quote from: kroz on May 25, 2015, 02:59:46 PM
Excellent post, milo.  My heart goes out to you in that situation in Serbia.  I will pray for you and your Country.... that truth may be seen.  And that you will become an instrument of reform there.

Thank you. I hope the people here will return to traditional values we had before the World War Two.

Quote from: keyboarder on May 25, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
I certainly feel for you Milo and can understand your lament on the situation you are faced with.  Seems no matter how much the commie machine is debunked we still have that certain bunch that will not be told anything conservative, it has to be the way they invision events to be.  Sadly, we've seen what their fantasies entail. 

This is one forum that welcomes all opinions but.... commie trash is always invited to leave.  The reasons they are invited to leave is obvious in that the junk they try to sell is un-American.  Our adm/mods do their work with a diligence and won't allow this forum to be invaded by worthless types.

Come by more often and you'll soon appreciate what this forum tries to do.

Thank you for your support.

Quote from: Bluetick on May 25, 2015, 05:31:44 PM
The Serbs have been knifed in the back. They have a noble history of standing up to advancing tyranny. From the Battle of Kosovo where Prince Lazar laid down his life stop the musloids, to defying the Nazis in WWII -- The Serbs protected the Jews that were living there and refused to cooperate with the Germans (unlike the Croats and musloids).

The Serbs are anti-communist, anti-Nazi, pro-American, and decent, stand-up people. Exactly the kind of people that lefties hate. So naturally,  Clinton and the UN bombed the country to help out the musloids. Now the musloids are committing a quiet genocide against Serbian Christians.

The whole thing makes me sick.

Thank you for your post, it is absolutely true. Since the beginning of the final liberation from Ottoman Turks in 1804, Serbians were developing in a classical liberal way. We were one among the first countries to reject feudalism, and we leaned towards personal liberty. In 1835, we adopted a constitution which was called "a French garden into a Turkish backyard", it was so (classically) liberal that the great powers of that time didn't allow us to use it, and a Turkish constitution was brought back. It became a struggle between our people on the one side, who wanted more freedom, and our rulers on the other side, who wanted to keep their autocracy and were backed by the great powers. That is why most of our country leaders were assassinated or expelled. After The Congres of Berlin in 1878, we were finally recognized as a fully independent state. In 1888, we adopted a constitution which was so (classically) liberal that it had just one article about the press, and it stated: "The press is free." It was the reason for our king to abdicate. Communism was imposed into us in 1944 by the will of the great powers - United Kingdom, Soviet Union, United States - our so-called allies, although Serbian nationalist forces were saving American pilots who were shot down. Before that, Serbia was the most anti-communist country in the Balkans. Before 1944, if a regular Serb encountered with a communist, he would just shoot him on the scene. So, the communists shot some 50 000 to 500 000 Serbian nationalists after the war in revenge, the true number was never revealed, and now we are a changed nation, almost completely poisoned by communist way of thinking.

Quote from: milos on May 27, 2015, 02:16:56 AM

Since the beginning of the final liberation from Ottoman Turks in 1804, Serbians were developing in a classical liberal way.

We were one among the first countries to reject feudalism, and we leaned towards personal liberty. After The Congres of Berlin in 1878, we were finally recognized as a fully independent state.

Milos, thank you for your historical explanation of Serbia's governance.  Even though I have driven through your Country, I knew little about it's history beyond the brutal end of Tito's reign.  I do have vivid memories of the news of that day!!

You have mentioned your liberation from the Ottoman Turks in 1804.

Believe it or not, I would watch the current leader of Turkey and his ambitions to restore the Ottoman Empire of old.  I could see that happening because of his growing popularity among the muslims and his own shrewd political prowess. 

That may sound totally bizarre to you, but I would keep a watch over my shoulder if I were you.   

Quote from: kalash on May 26, 2015, 01:12:21 PM
First question I wanted to ask, when I read this was "How old are you, sonny?" Cos it sounds like teenagers lament against grown ups... What kind of "personal freedoms" are you missing in Serbia?  You had period of comunists in power, it was time of Yougoslavia, where you had more freedoms then in USSR, and strange coinsidence, as soon as communists lost power, you've got bloody civil war, desintegration of the country, loss of serbian territory, and as a cherry on the pie bombing from western democracies...  And you know what? Serbia never will be US, never you will get these "personal freedoms" , whatever they are. Cos it is Serbia, and it is in Europe, and it is on Balkans, where muslims and catolics lives, and germans also not far away... You see, you are, serbs, not as lucky, as americans. Two oceans were not protecting you from invasions and unlike americans, that didn't have strong enemies on the borders, you had and having them today.  So, americans could exercise personal freedoms without strong government, they didn't need big army and all that expense, connected with support of big government machine.  You, serbs, cannot afford it, and if you you will continue to try this crap, you will have "personal freedoms', but you will not have Serbia. You already lost Kosovo.  So, if you like America, you better come and settle in US, don't try this at home. Of course, if you love you country. And as serb, you should know, who is your best friend and ally in the world.

I'm 37, and I'm old enough to be the Yugoslav communist leader Tito's contemporary. I went to a communist grade school, where I was forced to be a Tito's communist pioneer. Once, it happened a mother of one of the students wrote a letter to our teacher, addressing to him as "mister". I know he was anti-communist himself, but he was forced by the school administration to make a whole class of 45 minutes teaching us that to address someone as "mister" is awfully inappropriate, and that we should all address to each other as "comrades". Can you see some personal freedom missed there? It is true we had more personal freedom in the communist Yugoslavia than you had in the Soviet Union. I believe it's due to a fact that our people couldn't sustain more loss of freedom, and communists were afraid of a total people's rebellion, so they decided they should make a balance in order to remain on power. But, any kind of nationalism was strictly forbidden, and would make you being arrested and go to jail. Communists never lost power, they just disguised themselves into democrats, socialists, or nationalists. The old communist secret service created all of the current political parties, and gave roles to some of it's agents to act as democrats, some to act as socialists, and some to act as nationalists. Our political scene is completely fake, they are all one party still.

Why Yugoslavia broke apart and we had a civil war, it is a long story. First of all, the country of Yugoslavia itself was always an artificial creation. Only Serbs wanted it, and even not all of them, but Croatians or Muslims never wanted it. Croatians always wanted their independent state, while Muslims always wanted Turkey to get back here. The war emerged because Serbs found their national interest in keeping Yugoslavia together, because they were scattered all over the country, while all of the others wanted their independent states. I blame the awfully wrong diplomacy of the commie Serbian politicians at that time, who didn't want to understand other peoples in Yugoslavia wanted their freedom, so they tried to keep them into Yugoslavia by force. The other reason Yugoslavia disintegrated was of economic nature. Because, Yugoslav socialist economic system was never sustainable. Once you were employed, the constitution guaranteed you could never lose your job. Companies worked with losses, there was no profit made, we lived on 100 billion $ of US credits we were never obliged to return, and on credits we were given by the IMF, because Yugoslavia was used by NATO to establish the Non-Alignment Movement in order to keep socialist countries out of the Warsaw Treaty. During the 1980s, Yugoslav economy was in total chaos, our national debt was declared uncollectible, we were banned from taking any more loans. So, Yugoslav government started printing more paper money in order to keep the economy in life, and that is why we had a huge inflation. Unemployment was higher than ever, and one third of all employed people were forced on permanent vacation, which meant there was no work for them, but they still received their salaries, because the constitution guaranteed they couldn't lose their jobs. It was an economic hell, a timed bomb.

Now, we have some complete idiots, who claim we lived better under the communism during 1980s. They just want to fool the youth in order to promote their stupid commie agenda. They claim that we had liberal capitalism after the communism, which is a complete lie. We had, and still have, a period called "the transition", which means that communists, disguised as capitalists, stole our national property using our taxpayers' money. Today, it is known fact that both Serbian and Croatian leaders, Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman, while their peoples were at war during 1990s, jointly stole 100 billion EUR from their peoples, and put them into their mutual bank accounts in Cyprus, France, and United Kingdom. That money was later used for privatization of Serbian national companies. Can you imagine something more disgusting? Those commie thugs have put their nations into war, stole their money, and used it to buy their national companies. It makes me sick and want to puke, it makes my head hurt.

What kind of personal freedoms are we missing? For example, when someone criticizes the government in media, the government calls it "attack on the government" rather than "criticizing the government". Now, we have less political and media freedom than ever. Current political party, called "Serbian Progressive Party", has more than 50% support due to media control. They are former radical nationalists joined together with democrats, and paid by NATO to ruin this country even more. They had no political ideas whatsoever, they just wanted money. And they lead this country more and more towards the EU commie liberal agenda every day. And people will swallow that, because they still present themselves as nationalists and patriots in media, and all media are under their strict control. You can start your private business only if you pay a racket to the politicians on power. Does it look like liberal capitalism? During 1980s, people were dreaming and planning of leaving this country. Today, they just simply ask: "When we are going?"

It doesn't matter how much enemies we had or have today, this people has been always leaning towards personal liberty during it's history, and we still kept our tradition and warrior spirit. In 1888 we adopted one of the most (classical) liberal constitutions in the world, which stated: "The press is free.", as I mentioned before. But imposing the communism on us by the great powers in 1944 spoiled everything. If Russia goes to war, we will stand with Russia 100%, there is no doubt, because of our Slavic and Orthodox Christian origins. But, speaking of political system, we have never get along with Russia. During early 1800s, when we were fighting for final liberation from Turks, Russia wanted to impose it's feudal system on Serbia, but we rejected it. We rejected bolshevik revolution, too, and were the most anti-bolshevik people on the Balkans. We have never idealized our kings or presidents, we always regarded them just as one of us, equal as all other people. That is our Serbian ideal, a true Serb is independent and free person, a true warrior for freedom who doesn't kneel in front of anyone. That is why we have suffered so much.

Quote from: kroz on May 27, 2015, 04:13:22 AM
Milos, thank you for your historical explanation of Serbia's governance.  Even though I have driven through your Country, I knew little about it's history beyond the brutal end of Tito's reign.  I do have vivid memories of the news of that day!!

You have mentioned your liberation from the Ottoman Turks in 1804.

Believe it or not, I would watch the current leader of Turkey and his ambitions to restore the Ottoman Empire of old.  I could see that happening because of his growing popularity among the muslims and his own shrewd political prowess. 

That may sound totally bizarre to you, but I would keep a watch over my shoulder if I were you.   

Well, it is not bizarre at all. Turkey is growing stronger, and all Balkan countries are growing weaker. Balkan Muslims are openly inviting Turkey to come back. And then, we had US administration supporting Balkan Muslims during 1990s, which was sad.

Quote from: milos on May 27, 2015, 04:21:06 AM
I'm 37, and I'm old enough to be the Yugoslav communist leader Tito's contemporary.

What?  Tito was killed in 1980.  What am I missing here?

You were an infant when Tito was killed.

Quote from: milos on May 27, 2015, 04:21:06 AM
I'm 37, and I'm old enough to be the Yugoslav communist leader Tito's contemporary. I went to a communist grade school, where I was forced to be a Tito's communist pioneer. Once, it happened a mother of one of the students wrote a letter to our teacher, addressing to him as "mister". I know he was anti-communist himself, but he was forced by the school administration to make a whole class of 45 minutes teaching us that to address someone as "mister" is awfully inappropriate, and that we should all address to each other as "comrades". Can you see some personal freedom missed there? It is true we had more personal freedom in the communist Yugoslavia than you had in the Soviet Union. I believe it's due to a fact that our people couldn't sustain more loss of freedom, and communists were afraid of a total people's rebellion, so they decided they should make a balance in order to remain on power. But, any kind of nationalism was strictly forbidden, and would make you being arrested and go to jail. Communists never lost power, they just disguised themselves into democrats, socialists, or nationalists. The old communist secret service created all of the current political parties, and gave roles to some of it's agents to act as democrats, some to act as socialists, and some to act as nationalists. Our political scene is completely fake, they are all one party still.

Like I said, it's the same here in the US. They claim a two party system, but the Marxists have infested the GOP leadership, and even though they think they have us fooled with the help of the media, the entire country knows the truth and their end comes in 2016.

Oh, and thanks for this long, yet very informative post, very much appreciated.

QuoteWhy Yugoslavia broke apart and we had a civil war, it is a long story. First of all, the country of Yugoslavia itself was always an artificial creation. Only Serbs wanted it, and even not all of them, but Croatians or Muslims never wanted it. Croatians always wanted their independent state, while Muslims always wanted Turkey to get back here. The war emerged because Serbs found their national interest in keeping Yugoslavia together, because they were scattered all over the country, while all of the others wanted their independent states. I blame the awfully wrong diplomacy of the commie Serbian politicians at that time, who didn't want to understand other peoples in Yugoslavia wanted their freedom, so they tried to keep them into Yugoslavia by force. The other reason Yugoslavia disintegrated was of economic nature. Because, Yugoslav socialist economic system was never sustainable. Once you were employed, the constitution guaranteed you could never lose your job. Companies worked with losses, there was no profit made, we lived on 100 billion $ of US credits we were never obliged to return, and on credits we were given by the IMF, because Yugoslavia was used by NATO to establish the Non-Alignment Movement in order to keep socialist countries out of the Warsaw Treaty. During the 1980s, Yugoslav economy was in total chaos, our national debt was declared uncollectible, we were banned from taking any more loans. So, Yugoslav government started printing more paper money in order to keep the economy in life, and that is why we had a huge inflation. Unemployment was higher than ever, and one third of all employed people were forced on permanent vacation, which meant there was no work for them, but they still received their salaries, because the constitution guaranteed they couldn't lose their jobs. It was an economic hell, a timed bomb.

Now, we have some complete idiots, who claim we lived better under the communism during 1980s. They just want to fool the youth in order to promote their stupid commie agenda. They claim that we had liberal capitalism after the communism, which is a complete lie. We had, and still have, a period called "the transition", which means that communists, disguised as capitalists, stole our national property using our taxpayers' money. Today, it is known fact that both Serbian and Croatian leaders, Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman, while their peoples were at war during 1990s, jointly stole 100 billion EUR from their peoples, and put them into their mutual bank accounts in Cyprus, France, and United Kingdom. That money was later used for privatization of Serbian national companies. Can you imagine something more disgusting? Those commie thugs have put their nations into war, stole their money, and used it to buy their national companies. It makes me sick and want to puke, it makes my head hurt.

What kind of personal freedoms are we missing? For example, when someone criticizes the government in media, the government calls it "attack on the government" rather than "criticizing the government". Now, we have less political and media freedom than ever. Current political party, called "Serbian Progressive Party", has more than 50% support due to media control. They are former radical nationalists joined together with democrats, and paid by NATO to ruin this country even more. They had no political ideas whatsoever, they just wanted money. And they lead this country more and more towards the EU commie liberal agenda every day. And people will swallow that, because they still present themselves as nationalists and patriots in media, and all media are under their strict control. You can start your private business only if you pay a racket to the politicians on power. Does it look like liberal capitalism? During 1980s, people were dreaming and planning of leaving this country. Today, they just simply ask: "When we are going?"

It doesn't matter how much enemies we had or have today, this people has been always leaning towards personal liberty during it's history, and we still kept our tradition and warrior spirit. In 1888 we adopted one of the most (classical) liberal constitutions in the world, which stated: "The press is free.", as I mentioned before. But imposing the communism on us by the great powers in 1944 spoiled everything. If Russia goes to war, we will stand with Russia 100%, there is no doubt, because of our Slavic and Orthodox Christian origins. But, speaking of political system, we have never get along with Russia. During early 1800s, when we were fighting for final liberation from Turks, Russia wanted to impose it's feudal system on Serbia, but we rejected it. We rejected bolshevik revolution, too, and were the most anti-bolshevik people on the Balkans. We have never idealized our kings or presidents, we always regarded them just as one of us, equal as all other people. That is our Serbian ideal, a true Serb is independent and free person, a true warrior for freedom who doesn't kneel in front of anyone. That is why we have suffered so much.

Well, it is not bizarre at all. Turkey is growing stronger, and all Balkan countries are growing weaker. Balkan Muslims are openly inviting Turkey to come back. And then, we had US administration supporting Balkan Muslims during 1990s, which was sad.

Regardless of what is remembered throughout, and of history, man seems to repeat it for some stupid and circular reason.

Thanks for the explanation Milos.  It sounds like we have similar problems with the commies in government.  I never did understand our involvement in the Yugoslavia bombings, I still don't know what it was about.

Quote from: milos on May 27, 2015, 04:21:06 AM
But, speaking of political system, we have never get along with Russia. During early 1800s, when we were fighting for final liberation from Turks, Russia wanted to impose it's feudal system on Serbia, but we rejected it.

I don't know what you talking about, when you saying, that Russia were trying to impose feudal system on Serbia in the beginning of 19 century. As far as I knew, until 1856 Russia was only guarantor of chrisitian population in Ottoman empire. After russian-turkish war 1806-1812, according to article VIII of Bucharest peace treaty, Ottoman empire should give autonomy to Serbia, and russain diplomacy was trying to make this happen. I don't know what kind of the political system for Serbia they wanted. But whatever they wanted, first of all Russia wanted to see Serbia free. And at this period of time, I think that was main thing. Independence first and political system second. Of course, I cannot see imperial Russia willing to see Serbia as some kind of France 1793 type, but, hey, it was first half of 19th century and only two republics were in the world - US and Switzerland and one of them had legal slavery. Rest of the world were absolute monarchies or at least constitutional monarchies. But when in the beginning of 19 century part of the Poland and Finland become part of Russian empire, Russia didn't impose feudal system in them.

Quote from: kroz on May 27, 2015, 04:39:32 AM
What?  Tito was killed in 1980.  What am I missing here?

You were an infant when Tito was killed.

Lol, why do you say Tito was killed, do you know something I don't know? I was a toddler, but still his contemporary, technically speaking.

Quote from: Solar on May 27, 2015, 04:55:04 AM
Like I said, it's the same here in the US. They claim a two party system, but the Marxists have infested the GOP leadership, and even though they think they have us fooled with the help of the media, the entire country knows the truth and their end comes in 2016.

Oh, and thanks for this long, yet very informative post, very much appreciated.

Regardless of what is remembered throughout, and of history, man seems to repeat it for some stupid and circular reason.

Thank you. I wanted to start a topic about Serbian history long time ago, but I was not sure if it would be welcomed, maybe I'll really try it in the History forum.

Quote from: Dori on May 27, 2015, 08:24:38 AM
Thanks for the explanation Milos.  It sounds like we have similar problems with the commies in government.  I never did understand our involvement in the Yugoslavia bombings, I still don't know what it was about.

Ok. I believe it was primarily about finding a reason for NATO to stay in Europe. After the collapse of the Warsaw Treaty, NATO wanted to find another reason for it's existing, in order not to be disbanded. So, they had to push a Serbian-Albanian conflict, so that they could emerge as saviours to Albanians, and establish their military bases in Kosovo. They surely didn't do it because they loved Albanian people that much. There are some other reasons, like stealing natural and economic resources from Kosovo, like coal, minerals, water, electricity. Also, Albanian mafia has a huge drug production center in Kosovo, so it is also about protecting and controlling drug market. I think both Warsaw Treaty and NATO were/are criminal organizations with aim to control other nation's governments, and they should be both dissolved. The same as the UN should be dissolved, too, and all other international organizations which have been created to control the world, like IMF, WTO, World Bank.

Quote from: kalash on May 27, 2015, 01:20:47 PM
I don't know what you talking about, when you saying, that Russia were trying to impose feudal system on Serbia in the beginning of 19 century. As far as I knew, until 1856 Russia was only guarantor of chrisitian population in Ottoman empire. After russian-turkish war 1806-1812, according to article VIII of Bucharest peace treaty, Ottoman empire should give autonomy to Serbia, and russain diplomacy was trying to make this happen. I don't know what kind of the political system for Serbia they wanted. But whatever they wanted, first of all Russia wanted to see Serbia free. And at this period of time, I think that was main thing. Independence first and political system second. Of course, I cannot see imperial Russia willing to see Serbia as some kind of France 1793 type, but, hey, it was first half of 19th century and only two republics were in the world - US and Switzerland and one of them had legal slavery. Rest of the world were absolute monarchies or at least constitutional monarchies. But when in the beginning of 19 century part of the Poland and Finland become part of Russian empire, Russia didn't impose feudal system in them.

During the Russian-Turkish war 1806-1812, Russia was helping in liberation of Serbia from Turks. We had so-called First Serbian Uprising 1804-1813. We appreciated Russian military and political help. But, the leader of the uprising, Karađorđe, was never in good relationships with the Russian emissary, Rodofinikin. Because Rodofinikin wanted to get involved into Serbian internal and foreign affairs, and rule Serbia instead of Serbian leadership. It even happened Karađorđe addressed to Austria for help instead of Russia, but later he gave up on that idea. Serbians were disappointed in Bucharest Peace Treaty, they wanted to continue the war, and felt Russia betrayed them. They wanted full independance, and not authonomy under Turkish Empire. It was their diplomatic mistake, but I can understand why they wanted complete freedom. So, when Russia signed a peace treaty with Turkey, Turks were able to bring all of their troops into Serbia, and the uprising was crashed. After that, we had the Second Serbian Uprising in 1815, which was successful. It's leader, Miloš Obrenović, was a man of high diplomatic capabilities, he managed to negotiate with the Turks to raise Serbian authonomy, and gain liberties one by one. Russian emissaries suggested him to make a new Serbian nobility and copy the Russian feudal model, but he refused their suggestions. Because, we have just been liberated from Turkish feudalism, and we didn't want any more feudalism. That is why those uprisings are also called the Serbian Revolution. And just to add, Miloš Obrenović was the man who invented the modern Serbian flag. He wanted to use the Russian flag, but when he was told we couldn't do so, he replied: "Then, we will make it the other way around.", so he just inverted the colors.

Quote from: milos on May 25, 2015, 05:20:47 AM
They have done so much damage here in Serbia, even poisoned nationalistic movements, so much that all political forces here are more or less commie now.

First I too want to say thanks for sharing all that, you slavs have a lot more balls I hate to say than modern Scandinavians and I love reading about Hungary in particular standing up to the EU liberals and commies.

For national movements being inherently socialist some of it is as you say a result of former communist intelligence agencies or bureaucracies setting up national movements in post-communist countries such as Serbia, Hungary and East-Germany. But also it is tied with the legacy of fascism or falangism as the only other patriotic conservative alternative to socialist nationalism or socialism itself.

Moderate conservative parties does not really believe in anything that stirs the emotions of the soul, sure private property and liberty are concepts worth dying for but the message conservative parties always ties it with statistics and economical arguments combined with apologetic pleas to social justice in order to not come across as cold hearted capitalist or racist. Ayn Rand and even Hitler observed this when reflecting upon conservatism in Europe, they don't offer a real alternative to socialism. Falangism for example, share most of the social values we as conservatives embrace but not the economic policies. So in order to not appear racist moderate conservative attack nationalism out of fear of being consociated with these "neo-fascist" ideologies.

So what you end up with is a spineless moderate conservative alternative that nationalists see with disgust because they are afraid of embracing conservative socialist values so these conservatives end up with socialist nationalist parties that pretends to be against socialism while at the same time have the exact same policies except for when it comes to ethnic and immigration policies.

Quote from: Mountainshield on May 28, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
First I too want to say thanks for sharing all that, you slavs have a lot more balls I hate to say than modern Scandinavians and I love reading about Hungary in particular standing up to the EU liberals and commies.

For national movements being inherently socialist some of it is as you say a result of former communist intelligence agencies or bureaucracies setting up national movements in post-communist countries such as Serbia, Hungary and East-Germany. But also it is tied with the legacy of fascism or falangism as the only other patriotic conservative alternative to socialist nationalism or socialism itself.

Moderate conservative parties does not really believe in anything that stirs the emotions of the soul, sure private property and liberty are concepts worth dying for but the message conservative parties always ties it with statistics and economical arguments combined with apologetic pleas to social justice in order to not come across as cold hearted capitalist or racist. Ayn Rand and even Hitler observed this when reflecting upon conservatism in Europe, they don't offer a real alternative to socialism. Falangism for example, share most of the social values we as conservatives embrace but not the economic policies. So in order to not appear racist moderate conservative attack nationalism out of fear of being consociated with these "neo-fascist" ideologies.

So what you end up with is a spineless moderate conservative alternative that nationalists see with disgust because they are afraid of embracing conservative socialist values so these conservatives end up with socialist nationalist parties that pretends to be against socialism while at the same time have the exact same policies except for when it comes to ethnic and immigration policies.

That in essence is what the GOP has become, though I don't think they did it out of fear, rather they align with the beliefs of socialists, idiots that love big govt..

[q000uote author=milos link=topic=20538.msg243443#msg243443 date=1432801273]
There are some other reasons, like stealing natural and economic resources from Kosovo, like coal, minerals, water, electricity. Also, Albanian mafia has a huge drug production center in Kosovo, so it is also about protecting and controlling drug market.[/quote]

Who stole your coal, minerals, water, electricity and controlled the drug market?

Quote from: milos on May 28, 2015, 01:21:13 AM
Serbians were disappointed in Bucharest Peace Treaty, they wanted to continue the war, and felt Russia betrayed them.

You probably don't know that, but at this time along with war with Turky in 1806-12, Russia was also in war with Persia 1804-13. And of course the MAINE conсern  for Russia in 1812 was invasion of Napoleon. It was very big thing. Napoleon, by the way, had a big expectations on continuation of russian- turkish war, that could help him during invasion, and he was really outraged, when he found out, that Kutuzof (fieldmarshal that later that year chased french from Russia), beat the turks and made them beg for peace just couple of months before Napoleon invade Russia.  So, as you see Russia at that time had their hands very full.

Thank you for this enlightening thread. I thought the Serbs got rid of the Moslems. Show how much I know. I see  the communists and the corrupt leadership have created many problems.

Quote from: daidalos on May 26, 2015, 12:04:58 PM
What the hell is he talking about? I don't see that anyplace! LOL

Pulldown menu top navigation bar, "profile" and select "forum profile."
Scroll to "personal text" box.

Quote from: red_dirt on May 28, 2015, 03:36:19 PM
I thought the Serbs got rid of the Moslems. Show how much I know.

Pulldown menu top navigation bar, "profile" and select "forum profile."
Scroll to "persona text" box.

Thanks Red, I missed his post, Hell, I miss a lot of posts.