Author Topic: Solar Ain't So Green After All  (Read 447 times)

Offline Solar

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Solar Ain't So Green After All
« on: June 06, 2018, 08:53:46 PM »
Hey Taxed, remember when we talked about this? :biggrin:
Never mind the leftist bent of the author, there's no escaping the truth.

But what about the energy industry? Electricity production is heavily dependent on materials like steel, concrete, copper and aluminum, for both producing electricity and moving it around to where it’s needed (see figure).

Solar and Wind energy take more steel than any other energy source. Natural gas and nuclear take the least. Solar needs 1,600 tons of steel per MW, wind energy needs over 400 tons of steel, while gas and nuclear need only 4 and 40 tons, respectively.

Wind and solar also require ten times more transmission, also heavily steel-intensive, since they are usually sited far away from where the energy is used. The average high-voltage transmission tower includes about 30 tons of steel and transmission wire contains about a ton of steel per mile. Going from our biggest solar array, located in the Mohave Desert, to Los Angeles is almost 300 miles, requiring on the order of 10,000 tons of steel depending on specific design.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2018/06/02/the-effects-of-trumps-steel-tariffs-on-red-state-energy/#430ab6484b88
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Offline taxed

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 04:25:56 AM »
Holy crap!

Offline Solar

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 06:12:46 AM »
Holy crap!
I love the Big Green Lie. This moron author is trying to use this to his advantage in claiming Trump is bad for the economy, but in the process exposes a false leftist created industry supported solely on the backs of taxpayers.
There wouldn't be a solar or wind industry if not for Govt interference, no investor in their right mind would throw their money into a wind farm or solar plant hundreds of miles away from the nearest customer with a 50 year ROI, on a project that will only last 25 years at best, and that doesn't take into consideration heavy maintenance..

All this guy did, was expose a false economy built by billionaire investors using American tax dollars to manipulate the economy.
Trump is returning us to a Free Mkt structure which scares the shit out of them, and useful idiots like this guy doesn't have the intellect to grasp the concept.
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Offline topside

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 09:03:53 AM »
The Dim / BO dialogue:

Solar and Wind are green - it's gonna change everything. Oh, crap, wait ... you actually have data!!! Ton's of steel, economically infeasible.

What we meant to say is that solar and wind are going to create so many jobs and bolster the US construction industry and the steel economy running the lines. Jobs, jobs, jobs.

The answer to our energy deficit is solar and wind energy. Now, what was the question?




Offline Solar

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 09:39:46 AM »
The Dim / BO dialogue:

Solar and Wind are green - it's gonna change everything. Oh, crap, wait ... you actually have data!!! Ton's of steel, economically infeasible.

What we meant to say is that solar and wind are going to create so many jobs and bolster the US construction industry and the steel economy running the lines. Jobs, jobs, jobs.

The answer to our energy deficit is solar and wind energy. Now, what was the question?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

All at the Taxpayers expense. Take that equation out of the total, and the entire scam fails miserably. It was for this reason alone the Marxist needed energy prices to "Necessarily Skyrocket", or the entire scheme would have been questioned by the public. But for those who didn't pay attention, all they saw was electric prices rising, so with the govt willing to pay for nearly half their solar grid-tie system and people thought of only themselves and bought into the solar scam.
Instead of demanding a responsible energy Bill, they rolled over and screwed everyone else.
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 12:15:27 PM »
solar & wind energy, are scams.  Solar only works in very sunny states.  Then it requires an ELECTRIC FAN, to access the heat.  My parents bought this, & wasted their 3,000 dollars! It was their private joke to each other.

Wind turbines?  KILL THOUSANDS OF BIRDS,,, so much for 'green' source.
Study"s show the sound of turbines, is a health issues.  It affects, hearing, & the brain.  Many people had to move, to get out of the "sonic sound'.

Now those who want to be grammar nazi's & punctation creeps,,,F' OFF.   




Offline Solar

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 08:54:07 PM »
Like I said, solar ain't so "Green" after all.
In fact, the truth is, they're fuckin toxic as Hell.
The article claims in two to three decades they'll see a glut of solar panels reaching their "end of life", that's actually a bullshit lie, try more like, less than 5 years from now, millions of cheap Chinse panels will be crapping out, and that is only the beginning.

This all came about because the cost of quality, single cut crystal ingots was a very expensive process, so "Thin Cell" technology became the go-to solution, essentially a piece of shit panel (Solyndra used this cheap shit technology) with a life expectancy of a little over 10 years, though they have improved, those panels flooded the market just over a decade ago and are now seeing their use, well, essentially, useless, unless you mate them with another panel a double their voltage output, they're all but useless.

Anyway, now the industry is facing an actual environmental crisis. They have been throwing them in landfills, but with the surge of failed panels about to hit the landfills, they need to figure out how to recycle them and remove all the lead, cadmium and other toxic materials.
Looking for a business venture and all paid for by the taxpayer? And you keep all the metals you reclaim, so you really make a killing in the end y reselling the metals.
I kid you not, this is going to be a big money maker, because it'll be the law that you have to recycle them.
You heard it here first.





The last few years have seen growing concern over what happens to solar panels at the end of their life. Consider the following statements:

The problem of solar panel disposal “will explode with full force in two or three decades and wreck the environment” because it “is a huge amount of waste and they are not easy to recycle.”
“The reality is that there is a problem now, and it’s only going to get larger, expanding as rapidly as the PV industry expanded 10 years ago.”
“Contrary to previous assumptions, pollutants such as lead or carcinogenic cadmium can be almost completely washed out of the fragments of solar modules over a period of several months, for example by rainwater.”
Were these statements made by the right-wing Heritage Foundation? Koch-funded global warming deniers? The editorial board of the Wall Street Journal?

None of the above. Rather, the quotes come from a senior Chinese solar official, a 40-year veteran of the U.S. solar industry, and research scientists with the German Stuttgart Institute for Photovoltaics.

With few environmental journalists willing to report on much of anything other than the good news about renewables, it’s been left to environmental scientists and solar industry leaders to raise the alarm.


“I’ve been working in solar since 1976 and that’s part of my guilt,” the veteran solar developer told Solar Power World last year. “I’ve been involved with millions of solar panels going into the field, and now they’re getting old.”

The Trouble With Solar Waste

The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) in 2016 estimated there was about 250,000 metric tonnes of solar panel waste in the world at the end of that year. IRENA projected that this amount could reach 78 million metric tonnes by 2050.

Solar panels often contain lead, cadmium, and other toxic chemicals that cannot be removed without breaking apart the entire panel. “Approximately 90% of most PV modules are made up of glass,” notes San Jose State environmental studies professor Dustin Mulvaney. “However, this glass often cannot be recycled as float glass due to impurities. Common problematic impurities in glass include plastics, lead, cadmium and antimony.”

Researchers with the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) undertook a study for U.S. solar-owning utilities to plan for end-of-life and concluded that solar panel “disposal in “regular landfills [is] not recommended in case modules break and toxic materials leach into the soil” and so “disposal is potentially a major issue.”

California is in the process of determining how to divert solar panels from landfills, which is where they currently go, at the end of their life.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#11b43c3e121c
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Offline Solar

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Re: Solar Ain't So Green After All
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 08:49:45 AM »
One other point about Trump's Tax Cut Bill. It was so effective, that energy users are getting a 320+ Million dollar refund, and this is just one state.


PUC Orders 17 Utilities to Return $320+ Million to Consumers Following Analysis of Federal Tax Reform; Other Tax Reform Impacts Considered as Part of Ongoing Utility Rate Cases


HARRISBURG – The Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission (PUC) today issued an Order, requiring a “negative surcharge” or monthly credit on customer bills for 17 major electric, natural gas, and water and wastewater utilities, totaling more than $320-million per year. The refunds to consumers are the result of the substantial decrease in federal corporate tax rates and other tax changes under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) of 2017, which impacted the tax liability of many utilities.

http://www.puc.pa.gov/about_puc/press_releases.aspx?ShowPR=4034
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