Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 06:46:59 AM

Title: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 06:46:59 AM
We've got a total of over 22 million state and federal government workers. My guess is that they vote for the party that promises to grow government and give them more money. The bulk of them are unionized.

http://www.businessinsider.com/look-how-many-government-workers-weve-fired-since-2009-2012-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/look-how-many-government-workers-weve-fired-since-2009-2012-6)

Here's my point. Whenever a private company holds a contest, it is forbidden by law for the employees of that company to participate. The reason is obvious. It prevents the employees of that company from influencing the outcome of the contest, or skewing the results to benefit a family member, etc. In fact, the family members of company employees are also forbidden from entering the contests.

Why should we allow 22 million people that work within the company and have a vested interest in a democrat outcome, to participate in political contests? The very same government has made it illegal in the private sector, because they know it is not fair.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 06:56:09 AM
Vote?  Yes.  I do not see the day when our military would be refused the right to even try to vote.

However, I see no reason for any government worker to be allowed to have a public sector union.  Now that's a bit much.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 07:14:33 AM
NO!  I don't consider the military "government employees" in the traditional way.

I'd move the voting age up to 30.  We already know until about age 25, the brain isn't fully developed in the judgment centers. Source (http://www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/fall05/science1.htm)
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 07:37:16 AM
I'm not including our military. They will tend to vote for country. I'm talking about the swelling ranks of civilian employees.

My sister in law recenty went from the private sector to a state job. She told me that the hardest thing to get used to, was not doing much during the day.

For now she is voting republican/conservative. But can I really expect her to continue that? Why would anyone that is making a nice living in government, vote for someone that promises to slash it? They wouldn't. It would be career suicide.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 08:12:44 AM
Lets face it. The limited government that was envisioned by the founders is long gone. The government itself has become so large that they have a very real impact on our state and national elections.

22 million government workers. Romney lost by less than 2 million votes.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: JustKari on November 10, 2012, 08:25:26 AM
It will get worse before it gets better.  The government will add more government jobs to prop the jobs numbers in their favor.  They have to make sure their base has something to be happy about.  If all these employers are laying people off or going part-time, I wouldn't expect lower unemployment rates anytime soon.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 08:12:44 AM

Romney lost by less than 2 million votes.

That's sad.

If only the same number of votes that voted for McCain had voted for Romney, he, Romney would be our new and improved President.

But, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Romney was not conservative enough.

Idiots.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 08:55:29 AM
Quote from: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 08:45:19 AM
That's sad.

If only the same number of votes that voted for McCain had voted for Romney, he, Romney would be our new and improved President.

But, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Romney was not conservative enough.

Idiots.

Yep. We had a presidential candidate that is an undisputed expert on business, saved a doomed olympics, didn't take a salary as governor, donated his olympic salary to charity........................and a vice presidential candidate that is an undisputed expert on government fiscal policy, spending, waste, etc.

And we told them both to take a hike. We want a community organizer. :cry:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Travis Bickle on November 10, 2012, 08:56:36 AM
No, to the original question.

However.... raise the age to be allowed to vote to 21, excluding military.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: Travis Bickle on November 10, 2012, 08:56:36 AM
No, to the original question.

However.... raise the age to be allowed to vote to 21, excluding military.

So it's okay to have a government that is unionized and 22 million strong, to always vote for the presidential candidate that promises to grow government? Seems a little lopsided to me.

Not surprising that Obama got a second term. We will likely see a democrat win in 2016 too.

I look at government workers as government dependents. Not that none of them work hard for their money, but it all comes out of the private sector. Add in the welfare, foodstamp, medicaid recipients, and we're getting into some real numbers..........all voting democrat. How can we ever win?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 10:38:49 AM
47 million on foodstamps.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-15-americans-food-stamps-980690 (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-15-americans-food-stamps-980690)

Over 100 million total on some sort of welfare.

http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2012/08/10/welfare/ (http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2012/08/10/welfare/)
22 million working for government.

Romney ran on cutting government and government spending, and lost by less than 2 million votes. We will never again be a conservative nation as long as democrats are able to keep their thumbs on the scales of dependency, which leads to votes. They have won. Probably forever. There is no republican strategy that will ever overcome it.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 11:05:52 AM
Sure there is.  Let the Democrat National Socialist experiment take its course to failure.  Then what's remaining of the old USA can be put back together.......hopefully.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Chief Brett on November 10, 2012, 11:29:03 AM
I am a federal government worker and a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer.  I did not vote for President Obama.  Even though politically I saw little difference in either candidate, I voted for the man that most reflected my personal values and beliefs.  I think that once you get outside of the beltway federal government workers are much more conservative than you think.  My state (Indiana) and my district (8th) moved farther away from the liberals, and the workers at my base reflect that.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 11:41:42 AM
Quote from: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 11:05:52 AM
Sure there is.  Let the Democrat National Socialist experiment take its course to failure.  Then what's remaining of the old USA can be put back together.......hopefully.

We're watching that unfold in Greece. Unfortunately, the people, (mostly government workers), that have become accustomed to the easy life, are not only unwilling to help rebuild, they are unwilling to give up anything that they currenly have............almost to the point of rioting. That's the problem. It's the liberals that get violent when they don't get their way........not the conservatives. I believe that they would prefer to burn our cities to the ground, before giving up entitlements.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 10, 2012, 11:50:38 AM
Quote from: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 07:14:33 AM
NO!  I don't consider the military "government employees" in the traditional way.

I'd move the voting age up to 30.  We already know until about age 25, the brain isn't fully developed in the judgment centers. Source (http://www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/fall05/science1.htm)
No, make it 25 - that's the age you can get elected to the House. It's also about the age your auto insurance starts to go down. Maybe they know something. I remember when I was 18, I was stupid - and I was in the infantry, in a combat zone.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 11:58:20 AM
Did you read the source.  25 is the bare minimum when common sense begins to kick in
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 12:00:31 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on November 10, 2012, 11:50:38 AM
No, make it 25 - that's the age you can get elected to the House. It's also about the age your auto insurance starts to go down. Maybe they know something. I remember when I was 18, I was stupid - and I was in the infantry, in a combat zone.

If it's the 18-25 year olds that decided the vote, (which I doubt), it's because Obama dangled the carrot of free education and forgiven student loans in their faces. He forgot to mention that they won't have jobs when they graduate.

Why attach an age to it? If we just stop letting stupid people vote, we'll never see another democrat in office. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 12:18:58 PM
I linked the source.  If age doesn't matter, why not set it at 12?  8?  So,m as the old joke goes, it does matter, we're just debating the age.  18 is WAY too young unless you're a Demonrat politician looking to expand your base.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 10, 2012, 12:24:04 PM
I would opine that the minimum age to vote ought be the same as the minimum age to hold office.  So in Federal/national elections that would be 25.  State and local elections would depend on the minimum age in those political arenas.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 12:41:47 PM
Quote from: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 11:58:20 AM
Did you read the source.  25 is the bare minimum when common sense begins to kick in

When does common sense kick in with the liberal?

I think the problem may be more societal than age related. I'm guessing that 18-25 year olds thought much differently before about 1920-1930. Of course most of them had been working hard from the time they were able.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: valjean on November 10, 2012, 01:23:29 PM
Yes, government employees should be allowed to vote. Let's not forget that our military members are paid by the government as job and profession.

However I think public sector unions should be eliminated all together, if you get a government job, a job that is funded by tax payers, you have no right to demand more from taxpayers than they are willing to give especially when government workers possess far more benefits than someone working in the private sector.

Now government workers should be allowed to vote, but I honestly think that universal suffrage is showing its flaws now. I think it is completely immoral for people who do not pay taxes to vote themselves a bigger piece of the pie from someone else's labor, voting on things related to taxation ought to be limited to those who actually pay taxes. I would not say we need to restrict voting across the board, because citizenship entitles one to have a say in government, but this should be confined to things that do not involve other people's money. The very concept of the house of representatives is predicated on this idea; larger populations deserve more representation, since if they contribute most of the taxes they ought to appropriate most of the benefits of their taxes to higher population states. The same should ring true for individual voters in my opinion.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 01:26:40 PM
Yeah, it's a pretty basic principle. Those who take from others shouldn't have a say in what you're gonna give.  Good lick stopping it though.  Since they CAN vote and they're a significant percentage of all working American, it'll never happen--only grow bigger until it all comes crashing down--then the riots and revolution begin.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 01:37:45 PM
Obviously we won't be able to stop government employees, (not military), from voting. But something feels inherently wrong, when we have a government that continues to grow, and then the people that work within government are guaranteed to vote for the people that promise to grow it further.............democrats.

At some point the balance is going to shift, to where government employees and people that depend on government handouts are the majority. I think we may already be there. If that's the case, we're fooling ouselves to think that conservative, (limited government), candidates will ever win. It won't happen until we are crushed as a country.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 10, 2012, 01:54:19 PM
Quote from: valjean on November 10, 2012, 01:23:29 PM
Yes, government employees should be allowed to vote. Let's not forget that our military members are paid by the government as job and profession.
There are many jobs in the "military". No one would dream of depriving a member of the combat arms of the franchise; but what about a clerk/typist at the Pentagon?
QuoteHowever I think public sector unions should be eliminated all together, if you get a government job, a job that is funded by tax payers, you have no right to demand more from taxpayers than they are willing to give especially when government workers possess far more benefits than someone working in the private sector.
It's not only a question of benefits, it's a question of whether government workers actually pay taxes at all. If you walk into the tax office and pay five thousand dollars in taxes, and then walk across the hallway and pick up a fifty thousand dollar paycheck, what exactly have you contributed?
QuoteNow government workers should be allowed to vote, but I honestly think that universal suffrage is showing its flaws now. I think it is completely immoral for people who do not pay taxes to vote themselves a bigger piece of the pie from someone else's labor, voting on things related to taxation ought to be limited to those who actually pay taxes. I would not say we need to restrict voting across the board, because citizenship entitles one to have a say in government, but this should be confined to things that do not involve other people's money. The very concept of the house of representatives is predicated on this idea; larger populations deserve more representation, since if they contribute most of the taxes they ought to appropriate most of the benefits of their taxes to higher population states. The same should ring true for individual voters in my opinion.
I sort of agree, in that I believe there should be a "property qualification" (or a taxpayer qualification) for the franchise. The only exception I would make is for actual combat veterans.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 02:22:07 PM
I never intended for the military to be part of the equation. Whether it's a typist or infantry, these are people that give up the rights of civilianhood, and volunteer to become government property. They are governerned by the UCMJ, and cannot protest or get up and quit if they don't like it.

Another option would be to get rid of government unions, and have all civilian employees work at military pay grades. The government would draw people that put country ahead of themselves.

The argument would be, (from the left), that only stupid people would want to work for government. I would disagree. Our military is filled with people that put country in front of paycheck. Plenty of them are highly intelligent as well. They are there because they want to be there.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: For Liberty on November 11, 2012, 02:22:44 AM
Quote from: Yawn on November 10, 2012, 07:14:33 AM
NO!  I don't consider the military "government employees" in the traditional way.

I'd move the voting age up to 30.  We already know until about age 25, the brain isn't fully developed in the judgment centers. Source (http://www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/fall05/science1.htm)

ahahahahaahahahahahahahaha  :ttoung:

im cramping up from this... ahaha
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Solar on November 11, 2012, 04:42:25 AM
Quote from: For Liberty on November 11, 2012, 02:22:44 AM
ahahahahaahahahahahahahaha  :ttoung:

im cramping up from this... ahaha
The obvious difference is one, they actually perform a much needed service, unlike the other 99% of Fed employees.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: republicans2 on November 11, 2012, 05:13:10 AM
As a federal employee, I can assure everyone that many vote conservative especially those in law enforcement.  Government employees did not out Obama over the top.  Most are located in Virginia and DC.  Fear mongering and ignorance was the key for the left.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: republicans2 on November 11, 2012, 05:13:10 AM
As a federal employee, I can assure everyone that many vote conservative especially those in law enforcement.  Government employees did not out Obama over the top.  Most are located in Virginia and DC.  Fear mongering and ignorance was the key for the left.

That makes sense. Law enforcement is somewhat like a military command. They also get to deal with liberal policies on the street level. On the other hand, we have the teachers unions, etc. that are fully committed to democrats and keeping them in power. I personally think that it would be safe to assume that the majority of public employees lean democrat. I don't blame them either.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
I agree that federal unions should be outlawed.

But denying them suffrage is voter suppression at its absolute worst; and now, you're not even trying to hide it.  By that logic, women should not be allowed to vote because they tend to lean Left.  Neither should minorities, or scientists, or intellectuals, or gays.

But wait!  We can do this both ways: obviously, religious leaders would vote for the candidate that wants to give  religion more authority in the state.  So they should not be allowed to vote.  Nor should big bankers, for obvious reasons.

Indeed, I've heard the claim that wellfare recipients should not be allowed to vote before.  The biggest welfare recipients in history are the big bankers in the recent bailout.  Or is it OK to get billions of dollars for your own crimes if you're rich?   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: TowardLiberty on November 11, 2012, 07:05:20 AM
Rather than limiting the vote, which is never going to happen, I would rather see government programs become voluntary.

If you like big government, choose the policy you like, pay for it and all is well.

If you dont want to be a part of Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, the drug war, the war on terror.. etc, then you should be able to "opt out."

This gets around the issue of people being forced to pay for things they dont want.

Politics would become rational, like shopping for groceries.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: MichaelJ on November 11, 2012, 07:10:22 AM
I think they absolutely should be allowed to vote. We have no right to deprive them of their right to vote just because they benefit from government money. If we did that, half of the people in this country could not vote......
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 07:12:39 AM
QuoteBut wait!  We can do this both ways: obviously, religious leaders would vote for the candidate that wants to give  religion more authority in the state.  So they should not be allowed to vote.  Nor should big bankers, for obvious reasons.

Correct. Big bankers and religious leader that work within government and draw a government paycheck, should not be able to vote to increase the influence of the government.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 07:18:43 AM
Quote from: MichaelJ on November 11, 2012, 07:10:22 AM
I think they absolutely should be allowed to vote. We have no right to deprive them of their right to vote just because they benefit from government money. If we did that, half of the people in this country could not vote......

I'm just being the devil's advocate here..........

So, lets say that government continues to expand and the private sector continues to shrink. Lets say that 50 years from now, the people on the government payroll have a commanding majority in all votes. Wouldn't we have become a country, of the government, for the government?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: walkstall on November 11, 2012, 11:15:53 AM
Quote from: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 07:18:43 AM
I'm just being the devil's advocate here..........

So, lets say that government continues to expand and the private sector continues to shrink. Lets say that 50 years from now, the people on the government payroll have a commanding majority in all votes. Wouldn't we have become a country, of the government, for the government?


Hmm... 25% would be working taxpayer and 75% would be on the government payroll in one way of the other.  I can see utopia now.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
I agree that federal unions should be outlawed.

But denying them suffrage is voter suppression at its absolute worst; and now, you're not even trying to hide it.  By that logic, women should not be allowed to vote because they tend to lean Left.  Neither should minorities, or scientists, or intellectuals, or gays.

But wait!  We can do this both ways: obviously, religious leaders would vote for the candidate that wants to give  religion more authority in the state.  So they should not be allowed to vote.  Nor should big bankers, for obvious reasons.

Indeed, I've heard the claim that wellfare recipients should not be allowed to vote before.  The biggest welfare recipients in history are the big bankers in the recent bailout.  Or is it OK to get billions of dollars for your own crimes if you're rich?   :rolleyes:
Intriguing. Most liberals believe that society should be run by elites, because only they have the "intelligence" to make the "correct" decisions for the welfare of all. On the other hand they want everyone to vote, even when those who do vote are often voting for their own selfish gain, especially when they support programs they gain from - but don't have to pay for.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 11:33:16 AM
Intriguing. Most liberals believe that society should be run by elites, because only they have the "intelligence" to make the "correct" decisions for the welfare of all.

Is it wrong to want the president to be well educated, and not a community college graduate with a communications degree?

QuoteOn the other hand they want everyone to vote, even when those who do vote are often voting for their own selfish gain, especially when they support programs they gain from - but don't have to pay for.

You want the opposite: rich people to vote (although not necessarily smart people), but morons like Sarah Palin to hold high office.

Representatives are supposed to be smarter than average Americans.  Otherwise, they have no place ruling them.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 11, 2012, 01:33:24 PM
Question:  Why is Mrs. Palin a moron?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 01:40:04 PM
Quote from: a777pilot on November 11, 2012, 01:33:24 PM
Question:  Why is Mrs. Palin a moron?

Not to butt in, but scifi is having another bad day.................he tends to lash out sometimes. That's what liberals do when they are on the losing end of multiple debates. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 01:45:16 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 11:37:11 AM
Is it wrong to want the president to be well educated, and not a community college graduate with a communications degree?
We managed pretty well with a self educated laborers son out of Illinois.
QuoteYou want the opposite: rich people to vote (although not necessarily smart people), but morons like Sarah Palin to hold high office.
Representatives are supposed to be smarter than average Americans.  Otherwise, they have no place ruling them.
They're not supposed to be RULING us, they're supposed to be REPRESENTING us. The fact that you make that mistake says, all we need to know about what's wrong with the left.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 01:45:16 PM
We managed pretty well with a self educated laborers son out of Illinois.They're not supposed to be RULING us, they're supposed to be REPRESENTING us. The fact that you make that mistake says, all we need to know about what's wrong with the left.

Man. He walked himself right into that one. :lol:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 01:45:16 PM
We managed pretty well with a self educated laborers son out of Illinois.

Are you under the impression that self education doesn't count?  Has Sarah Palin taught herself anything?  She couldn't even name a single supreme court decision other than Roe v Wade that she disagreed with...but thinks herself an expert on law.   :rolleyes:

QuoteThey're not supposed to be RULING us, they're supposed to be REPRESENTING us. The fact that you make that mistake says, all we need to know about what's wrong with the left.

Ooohhhh, semantics whoring, are we?  Fine.  People who represent us are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not a hockey mom who makes up words.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 11, 2012, 02:09:43 PM
Meanwhile back at who of the Federal government employees are doing their job....


The Federal Gov't was mostly shut down because of Hurricane Sandy .

This group of federal employees still went to the office .



(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi75.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi282%2Fa777pilot%2Ftheunknown.jpg&hash=5daf247d0c10516b61e52b464c466faa6dfd71cc)
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: JustKari on November 11, 2012, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 02:08:50 PM
Are you under the impression that self education doesn't count?  Has Sarah Palin taught herself anything?  She couldn't even name a single supreme court decision other than Roe v Wade that she disagreed with...but thinks herself an expert on law.   :rolleyes:

Ooohhhh, semantics whoring, are we?  Fine.  People who represent us are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not a hockey mom who makes up words.

Last I checked, "corpesman" does not exist.  Oh right, that was the TOTUS' fault.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 11, 2012, 02:37:22 PM
QuotePeople who represent us are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not a hockey mom who makes up words.

She's a GOVERNOR.

Tell us again about Obama's qualifications
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 02:42:20 PM
QuoteOoohhhh, semantics whoring, are we?  Fine.  People who represent us are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not a hockey mom who makes up words.
Back when we were still paying attention to his theories; we would have referred to that as a "Freudian slip". These days we just refer to it as a gaffe - when someone accidentally tells the truth. That ruling versus representing slip of yours, pretty much reveals your mindset. Statist to the core!  :mad:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 02:51:23 PM
QuotePeople who represent us are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not a hockey mom who makes up words.

I don't want to bust your bubble, but we just re-elected a pot smoking community organizer that was raised outside the US, worships communists and their sympathizers, has all of his school and other records sealed, used his position in government to write and sell books, rather than doing his job, and who's single greatest achievement as president was orchestrating the single largest tax increase in history, with Obamacare. I'll take a hockey mom.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 02:51:23 PM
I don't want to bust your bubble, but we just re-elected a pot smoking community organizer that was raised outside the US, worships communists and their sympathizers, has all of his school and other records sealed, used his position in government to write and sell books, rather than doing his job, and who's single greatest achievement as president was orchestrating the single largest tax increase in history, with Obamacare. I'll take a hockey mom.
His every word just drips contempt for anyone he doesn't consider to be his "intellectual" equal does he.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: walkstall on November 11, 2012, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on November 11, 2012, 02:53:57 PM
His every word just drips contempt for anyone he doesn't consider to be his "intellectual" equal does he.

It must be difficult talking to normal people.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 04:26:58 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 10, 2012, 06:46:59 AM
We've got a total of over 22 million state and federal government workers. My guess is that they vote for the party that promises to grow government and give them more money. The bulk of them are unionized.

http://www.businessinsider.com/look-how-many-government-workers-weve-fired-since-2009-2012-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/look-how-many-government-workers-weve-fired-since-2009-2012-6)

Here's my point. Whenever a private company holds a contest, it is forbidden by law for the employees of that company to participate. The reason is obvious. It prevents the employees of that company from influencing the outcome of the contest, or skewing the results to benefit a family member, etc. In fact, the family members of company employees are also forbidden from entering the contests.

Why should we allow 22 million people that work within the company and have a vested interest in a democrat outcome, to participate in political contests? The very same government has made it illegal in the private sector, because they know it is not fair.

First, I would ban all public sector employee unions.

Second, no one who had not served in the military would be allowed to vote in Federal elections. State and local elections would be up to the state.

Third, people who are participating in Federal Entitlement Programs would be ineligible to vote, if such income exceeds more that 1/3 of their total income.

Finally, at each polling place there would be a simple 10 question test. You need to get a 70% or above to be allowed to vote. There are far too many idiots, on both the Republican and Democrat sides, who don't have the slightest idea of what is going on - they really should not be allowed to vote.

Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: walkstall on November 11, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 04:26:58 PM
First, I would ban all public sector employee unions.

Second, no one who had not served in the military would be allowed to vote in Federal elections. State and local elections would be up to the state.Third, people who are participating in Federal Entitlement Programs would be ineligible to vote, if such income exceeds more that 1/3 of their total income.

Finally, at each polling place there would be a simple 10 question test. You need to get a 70% or above to be allowed to vote. There are far too many idiots, on both the Republican and Democrat sides, who don't have the slightest idea of what is going on - they really should not be allowed to vote.

Hmm... one of my brothers was 4 F the Navy, Army or Marines would not take him.  Each one said no.   Just saying..............
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: walkstall on November 11, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
Hmm... one of my brothers was 4 F the Navy, Army or Marines would not take him.  Each one said no.   Just saying..............

Where I was coming from with that is that one of the biggest things that the Federal Government does is send the military out to fight our wars. I feel that the people elected to make that decision, should only be elected by people who have actually been in the military.

Of course, this goes hand in hand with reducing the size of the Federal Government to the absolute minimum size required to fulfill its obligation under the Constitution.

Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 04:56:28 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 04:41:12 PM
Where I was coming from with that is that one of the biggest things that the Federal Government does is send the military out to fight our wars. I feel that the people elected to make that decision, should only be elected by people who have actually been in the military.

Of course, this goes hand in hand with reducing the size of the Federal Government to the absolute minimum size required to fulfill its obligation under the Constitution.

That doesn't sound right either. It would unfairly bias the party that promised to grow the military, give massive pay increases, etc., which would be the republicans. We would end up with a bunch of repulican money wasters in there, and a military that was twice the size that we need.

My primary beef, is that the government has become so massive, that it's civilian employees can sway entire elections toward big government candidates, which we just witnessed with the Obama re-election. And yes, that also includes the people that are getting a free government ride. By handing out all of these entitlements, we are screwing the people that are genuinely sick and poor, and really need help.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: walkstall on November 11, 2012, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 04:41:12 PM
Where I was coming from with that is that one of the biggest things that the Federal Government does is send the military out to fight our wars. I feel that the people elected to make that decision, should only be elected by people who have actually been in the military.  
Of course, this goes hand in hand with reducing the size of the Federal Government to the absolute minimum size required to fulfill its obligation under the Constitution.

For it to be that way every man or woman should be able to enlist.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 04:56:28 PM
That doesn't sound right either. It would unfairly bias the party that promised to grow the military, give massive pay increases, etc., which would be the republicans. We would end up with a bunch of repulican money wasters in there, and a military that was twice the size that we need.

My primary beef, is that the government has become so massive, that it's civilian employees can sway entire elections toward big government candidates, which we just witnessed with the Obama re-election. And yes, that also includes the people that are getting a free government ride. By handing out all of these entitlements, we are screwing the people that are genuinely sick and poor, and really need help.

It's not perfect, but, at least IMHO, its no worse than allowing a bunch of welfare queens decide who gets to be president!

Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 12, 2012, 04:20:41 AM
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 11, 2012, 05:02:37 PM
It's not perfect, but, at least IMHO, its no worse than allowing a bunch of welfare queens decide who gets to be president!

Agreed, but it probably doesn't matter.

If we see a continued expansion of government, and government entitlement programs like welfare, foodstamps, Obamaphones.................and even SSI disability, (which has skyrocketed under Obama), I think we are facing a very real possibility that we won't see a republican in the oval office for a long, long time. We are looking at tens of millions of people that are not effected by a bad economy. Whether they work for government, or get a free check every month, their pay is safe.......and they vote.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: mdgiles on November 12, 2012, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: kramarat on November 12, 2012, 04:20:41 AM
Agreed, but it probably doesn't matter.

If we see a continued expansion of government, and government entitlement programs like welfare, foodstamps, Obamaphones.................and even SSI disability, (which has skyrocketed under Obama), I think we are facing a very real possibility that we won't see a republican in the oval office for a long, long time. We are looking at tens of millions of people that are not effected by a bad economy. Whether they work for government, or get a free check every month, their pay is safe.......and they vote.
When the collapse comes, what are the takers going to do? The idea of doing something - besides asking for continued handouts - never occurs to them. Greece is the coming model, where the people simply refuse to face the reality of no more free cheese. They riot in the streets demanding, that the nanny state continue. IMHO, I see a new set of "Colonels" in their future. I see police states in a whole lot of futures, it's the only way to keep the leeches in line.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: TowardLiberty on November 12, 2012, 09:45:09 AM
Everyone should be allowed to vote, but at the same time, everyone should be allowed to opt out of what the majority ends up voting for?

Dont like the war on drugs or Social Security?

Opt out and dont subject yourself to these programs and taxes....

I dont see another way of saving the political process.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 12:55:10 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 11, 2012, 02:51:23 PM
I don't want to bust your bubble, but we just re-elected a pot smoking

Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence.

Quotecommunity organizer

Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence.

Quotethat was raised outside the US,

Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence (and quite false).

Quoteworships communists

Anyone who thinks Obama is a communist has absolutely no idea what a communistic state actually is like.

Quotehas all of his school and other records sealed,

You do realize that none of this is supposed to be public, right?

Quoteused his position in government to write and sell books, rather than doing his job,

Black and white fallacy.  One does not exclude the other.

Quoteand who's single greatest achievement as president was orchestrating the single largest tax increase in history, with Obamacare.

I'd love to see your statistics.


QuoteI'll take a hockey mom.

Because a hockey mom is qualified to handle complex economic, political and social issues on a daily bases, when campaigning nearly collapsed her.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 12:55:10 PM
Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence.

Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence.

Red herring.  Nothing to do with intelligence (and quite false).

Anyone who thinks Obama is a communist has absolutely no idea what a communistic state actually is like.

You do realize that none of this is supposed to be public, right?

Black and white fallacy.  One does not exclude the other.

I'd love to see your statistics.


Because a hockey mom is qualified to handle complex economic, political and social issues on a daily bases, when campaigning nearly collapsed her.   :rolleyes:

Good thinking, boy genius!

Elect the president based on intelligence, and no one below a certain IQ gets to vote. Perfect!

That would eliminate 90% of the people that voted for Obama. Damn you're smart.

Smart people use intelligence, huh?

Remember your video, homey? :lol:

Brilliant!!!!!!

Barack Obama Waka Flocka Rap Parody ( Head of State ) MP3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JJ9Fg0VctI#ws)
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: taxed on November 13, 2012, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 12:55:10 PM

Anyone who thinks Obama is a communist has absolutely no idea what a communistic state actually is like.


http://spectator.org/archives/2012/10/12/dreams-from-frank-marshall-dav (http://spectator.org/archives/2012/10/12/dreams-from-frank-marshall-dav)
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/young-obama%E2%80%99s-dreams-of-a-communist-revolution-in-america/ (http://frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/young-obama%E2%80%99s-dreams-of-a-communist-revolution-in-america/)

Actually, when you look at Obama's life, you can't find any non-communists or Marxists.  Can you name any?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: a777pilot on November 13, 2012, 03:25:01 PM
This Obama, better known to me as, Bobo, the Post Turtle, does not fit any old definition.  He is a whole new virus.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
kramarat: I love how you think that a video parody is an actual representation of the president.   :lol:

Taxed: I'll repeat; all of Obama's policies would be considered slightly to the Left of center by the standards of Western Europe.  Until he nationalizes the food industry and abolishes investment, he is not a "communist".
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 03:27:59 PM
What a person IS and what they've been able to accomplish are two different things.  He IS a Communist.  He needs a second term to implement his agenda.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:30:17 PM
Quote from: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 03:27:59 PM
What a person IS and what they've been able to accomplish are two different things.  He IS a Communist.  He needs a second term to implement his agenda.

Come back to me in four years, and we'll see how your predictions played out.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:32:04 PM
Quote from: a777pilot on November 13, 2012, 03:25:01 PM
This Obama, better known to me as, Bobo, the Post Turtle, does not fit any old definition.  He is a whole new virus.

Ain't that the truth!!!!

He has picked up bits and pieces from all over.

Marxism, communism, domestic terrorists, raised in Islam, switched to black liberation theology, ACORN community agitator, abandoned by his parents............................

Nobody knows who this guy is. He defies explanation.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:30:17 PM
Come back to me in four years, and we'll see how your predictions played out.

I made no prediction.  I told you what he IS.

Then I told you exactly what HE told you.  He needs another 4 years to implement his agenda.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 03:34:02 PM
I made no prediction.  I told you what he IS.

Then I told you exactly what HE told you.  He needs another 4 years to implement his agenda.

What agenda is that?

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around your hilarious, deluded fantasy in which Obama is a secret communist infiltrator from Kenya working to turn us into the Soviet States of America.  So far, all of his policies are simply more moderate versions of Western European/Canadian reforms.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 03:37:13 PM
It's no secret.  You're simply blind.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
kramarat: I love how you think that a video parody is an actual representation of the president.   :lol:

Taxed: I'll repeat; all of Obama's policies would be considered slightly to the Left of center by the standards of Western Europe.  Until he nationalizes the food industry and abolishes investment, he is not a "communist".

The video is perfect. It depicts Obama for what he is. You seemed very proud of it on your original posting.

Unless of course, you intentionally meant for it to be demeaning....................showing Obama as a race whore, pimp, gangsta, that doesn't give a crap about the people that voted for him.

Which is it, boy wonder?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: taxed on November 13, 2012, 03:39:20 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
kramarat: I love how you think that a video parody is an actual representation of the president.   :lol:

Taxed: I'll repeat; all of Obama's policies would be considered slightly to the Left of center by the standards of Western Europe.  Until he nationalizes the food industry and abolishes investment, he is not a "communist".

We are a free country.  Obama is a radical Marxist.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:37:21 PM
The video is perfect. It depicts Obama for what he is.

No, it does not.  You still don't understand it, do you?   :rolleyes:

Hint hint: ...ah, screw it.

It's a joke.

Now, perhaps you can learn that not every music video has a secret message to it.  Maybe it's just an indictment of Obama's badassery that plays on some lighthearted racial stereotypes.  Obama's pretty popular that way.

Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:40:09 PM
No, it does not.  You still don't understand it, do you?   :rolleyes:

Hint hint: ...ah, screw it.

It's a joke.

Now, perhaps you can learn that not every music video has a secret message to it.  Maybe it's just an indictment of Obama's badassery that plays on some lighthearted racial stereotypes.  Obama's pretty popular that way.

Right on, moron!
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:53:23 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:48:55 PM
Right on, moron!

:lol:

Hey, I'm not the guy that takes a rap parody of the president on youtube as a deep philosophical unveiling. 
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 03:53:23 PM
:lol:

Hey, I'm not the guy that takes a rap parody of the president on youtube as a deep philosophical unveiling.

Nope. You are represented in the background of the video. A typical Obama voter. Living in crap and happy about it.

Wanna see some real interviews with Obama voters?

You're probably not bright enough to see it, but your little video is closer to reality than you think.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 03:57:59 PM
Nope. You are represented in the background of the video. A typical Obama voter. Living in crap and happy about it.

Wanna see some real interviews with Obama voters?

You're probably not bright enough to see it, but your little video is closer to reality than you think.

You do realize that those "typical Obama voters" are voting for Obama because they feel that Barrack will work to give them the opportunity to escape poverty, while Romney comes off as not really giving a damn, right?

Do you think they weren't living in crap before Obama?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Yawn on November 13, 2012, 04:04:42 PM
They lost their chance for a job by voting Obama.  Now all they have to look forward to is hand-outs.  But that's all they really voted for anyway.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Solar on November 13, 2012, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: a777pilot on November 13, 2012, 03:25:01 PM
This Obama, better known to me as, Bobo, the Post Turtle, does not fit any old definition.  He is a whole new virus.
You are correct.
Look up Fabian Socialist, Husein literally fits the mold they had in mind.

Fabians started the group the day Marx died, they believed in Marx' ideals, but felt they could achieve his goals without violence.
Of course they are fools, but Marxists through and through.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Darth Fife on November 13, 2012, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 04:01:24 PM
You do realize that those "typical Obama voters" are voting for Obama because they feel that Barrack will work to give them the opportunity to escape poverty, while Romney comes off as not really giving a damn, right?

Do you think they weren't living in crap before Obama?

Do you think they won't still be living in crap long after Obama is gone?
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 04:01:24 PM
You do realize that those "typical Obama voters" are voting for Obama because they feel that Barrack will work to give them the opportunity to escape poverty, while Romney comes off as not really giving a damn, right?

Do you think they weren't living in crap before Obama?

Poverty has done nothing but increase under democrats, and democrats have been hard at work to keep them there, for decades.

Obama = Opportunity?

You are one stupid SOB. :lol:
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 05:43:20 PM
Poverty has done nothing but increase under democrats, and democrats have been hard at work to keep them there, for decades.

Since 1961, Republicans have held the White House for 4 more years than Democrats.  The Democrats have created almost twice as many jobs (42 million) in that time period.

Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
Since 1961, Republicans have held the White House for 4 more years than Democrats.  The Democrats have created almost twice as many jobs (42 million) in that time period.

Show me.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: kramarat on November 13, 2012, 05:49:40 PM
Show me.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/06/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-says-democratic-presidents-top-republ/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/06/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-says-democratic-presidents-top-republ/)

Quote

Let's cut to the chase. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the net increases in private-sector employment under each president, chronologically by party:

Republicans

Richard Nixon: Increase of 7.1 million jobs
Gerald Ford: Increase of 1.3 million jobs
Ronald Reagan: Increase of 14.7 million jobs
George H.W. Bush: Increase of 1.5 million jobs
George W. Bush: Decline of 646,000 jobs

Total: Increase of 23.9 million jobs under Republican presidents

Democrats

John F. Kennedy: Increase of 2.7 million jobs
Lyndon B. Johnson: Increase of 9.5 million jobs
Jimmy Carter: Increase of 9.0 million jobs
Bill Clinton: Increase of 20.8 million jobs
Barack Obama: Increase of 332,000 jobs

Total: Increase of 42.3 million jobs.

Before you try, this does not include government jobs, and the democrats had no advantage in population growth. 
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: Darth Fife on November 13, 2012, 06:37:03 PM
Did you read the whole article?

Shouldn't the Republican Congress of 1995-2001 get a share of the credit for Clinton's robust job growth? Shouldn't the Democratic House that served under Reagan? Most experts would say yes and yes.
Title: Re: Should Government Employees Be Allowed To Vote?
Post by: kramarat on November 14, 2012, 02:35:02 AM
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 13, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/06/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-says-democratic-presidents-top-republ/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/06/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-says-democratic-presidents-top-republ/)

Before you try, this does not include government jobs, and the democrats had no advantage in population growth.

Only democrats and liberal websites would believe that presidents create jobs in the private sector.

Republican or democrat, any private sector jobs that are created under the weight of our bloated government, are created in spite of the government, not because of them.