Author Topic: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures  (Read 1913 times)

Offline ford

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Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« on: September 16, 2017, 10:48:26 AM »

Offline Solar

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 11:05:41 AM »
Yes he did. Do you have a point/response/opinion?
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Offline ford

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 11:15:03 AM »
Americans used to believe in freedom.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 11:52:11 AM »
Americans used to believe in freedom.

This is old news, but how Sessions doing this mean Americans don't believe in freedom?
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 01:01:56 PM »
Americans used to believe in freedom.

...and your point is...?
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Offline Wyatt5

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 12:33:15 AM »
This is one of my pet peeves. It amazes me that Americans of any political stripe would support Civil Asset Forfeiture.

Offline Billy's bayonet

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 06:29:03 AM »
This is one of my pet peeves. It amazes me that Americans of any political stripe would support Civil Asset Forfeiture.

So Cartel drug dealers should be able to come to the USA (illegally) and amass millions by selling drugs, smuggling other illegals and committing an alphabet directory of felonies and still keep the profits (assets) from said crimes?

What kind of "American" believes in that.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 10:21:51 AM »
So Cartel drug dealers should be able to come to the USA (illegally) and amass millions by selling drugs, smuggling other illegals and committing an alphabet directory of felonies and still keep the profits (assets) from said crimes?

What kind of "American" believes in that.

No, of course not. But arbitrary seizure of assets in the absence of a warrant, a subpoena, a trial, an arrest, or even a criminal or civil charge or evidence of a crime is not a good thing, and it's happening all the time. Here's a recent write-up from the Washington Post on exactly this issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/13/customs-agents-seized-a-lawful-gun-owners-truck-over-five-bullets-now-hes-suing-to-get-it-back/?utm_term=.4cbadc678b80

What kind of American believes in that?
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Offline Billy's bayonet

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 12:55:03 PM »
No, of course not. But arbitrary seizure of assets in the absence of a warrant, a subpoena, a trial, an arrest, or even a criminal or civil charge or evidence of a crime is not a good thing, and it's happening all the time. Here's a recent write-up from the Washington Post on exactly this issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/13/customs-agents-seized-a-lawful-gun-owners-truck-over-five-bullets-now-hes-suing-to-get-it-back/?utm_term=.4cbadc678b80

What kind of American believes in that?

What kind of American believes anything written up in the washington post?

Lot of red flags in this article, this guy going back and forth across the border to visit "relatives" yeah... :rolleyes:
I wonder what the border intel report is on him.

Having dealt with asset forfeiture I know how difficult it is to seize vehicles from drug dealers even when you have a good case.

Unless you are suggesting we throw out the baby with the bath water, asset forfieture is a powerful weapon to use against the bad guys.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 02:11:45 PM »
What kind of American believes anything written up in the washington post?

Lot of red flags in this article, this guy going back and forth across the border to visit "relatives" yeah... :rolleyes:
I wonder what the border intel report is on him.

Having dealt with asset forfeiture I know how difficult it is to seize vehicles from drug dealers even when you have a good case.

Unless you are suggesting we throw out the baby with the bath water, asset forfieture is a powerful weapon to use against the bad guys.

I get what you're saying. But nothing in the case I cited -- and there are thousands of other cases -- indicates that the guy whose truck was confiscated did a single thing wrong. In two years, the guy has never been charged with even jaywalking.

The WaPo may not be your source of choice, but the exact same story was reported in at least ten other journals, including Fox News here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/09/20/has-asset-forfeiture-gone-too-far-truck-seizure-case-sparks-outrage-call-for-change.html You can also check out Forbes here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2017/09/13/border-agents-seized-american-citizens-truck-never-charged-him-with-a-crime/#1bb62fa57a04

We definitely need every LEGAL tool available to combat drug crimes. The civil asset forfeiture laws were originally written to address mob crime and specifically money laundering, but they were graduated to address the drug problem. I don't have a problem when a for-sure bad guy loses his shit or his bling to the government. But I have a MAJOR problem when some schmo who did nothing but carry five live cartridges in his truck to a border checkpoint loses his $60,000 vehicle because the Border Patrol thinks he is "transporting munitions of war," for Christ's sake.

Dude has NO record. Dude was NEVER charged or even arrested. Dude has NO pending actions against him. Dude is an American citizen and a property owner. Dude is clean.

The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution was written to prevent PRECISELY this.

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But somebody better be able to PROVE there's a baby in there. Nobody did that in this case, and thousands of others.
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Offline Wyatt5

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 04:13:54 PM »
So Cartel drug dealers should be able to come to the USA (illegally) and amass millions by selling drugs, smuggling other illegals and committing an alphabet directory of felonies and still keep the profits (assets) from said crimes?

What kind of "American" believes in that.

Convict them of a crime first.  Otherwise see Tbone's posts.

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 04:56:44 PM »
One other thing I neglected to mention....

It's odd to me that so many of these egregious 4th Amendment cases involve stuff that would sure be nice for the confiscating agency to have. I mean, a lot of times it's money, and money is always nice. But this time, it's a nearly-new Ford F-250 4WD pickup truck with all the bells and whistles. How sweet would that ride look with Border Patrol insignia on the sides?
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Offline Billy's bayonet

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 05:15:33 PM »
Convict them of a crime first.  Otherwise see Tbone's posts.

What does the 4th amend say about collecting evidence of a crime..... If there is probable cause to seize the asset it is treated the same as evidence seized for use in court. Also. there is a hearing in front of a judge who determines if the asset can be "seized" and a separate hearing to determine if the asset can be converted to Govt use.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 05:28:44 PM »
What does the 4th amend say about collecting evidence of a crime..... If there is probable cause to seize the asset it is treated the same as evidence seized for use in court. Also. there is a hearing in front of a judge who determines if the asset can be "seized" and a separate hearing to determine if the asset can be converted to Govt use.

The 4th Amendment doesn't address the collection of criminal evidence. It addresses the right of an American to be free from unlawful search and seizure of his person, his home, and his property.

C'mon, Billy. Where was the "probable cause" in this case? The guy shows up at a border checkpoint and the feds roust him around and conduct an ILLEGAL search of his truck and find {gasp!!!} five pistol cartridges. No gun or anything, just five cartridges. They feed him a line of shit, tell him he's transporting "munitions of war." Guy's got no record, he's not on any watch list. He hasn't resisted arrest -- even though he wasn't "officially" arrested -- and he's clean in every way. He is released without any charge, and never appears before a judge.

Please explain to me how the federal government is entitled to take his truck.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

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Offline Billy's bayonet

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Re: Sessions: Restore federal asset seizures
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 05:58:27 PM »



Dude has NO record. Dude was NEVER charged or even arrested. Dude has NO pending actions against him. Dude is an American citizen and a property owner. Dude is clean.

The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution was written to prevent PRECISELY this.

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But somebody better be able to PROVE there's a baby in there. Nobody did that in this case, and thousands of others.

I harken back to my Halcyon days of yore when I seized many an asset from a Drug dealers network. One of my prize confiscation's was a pair of BMW's owned by "the Mom's" who was the real driving force behind the operation of a genuine drug dealing family...heroin.  Sweet ol' church going Mom who never had so much as a traffic ticket.  She ordered a girlfriend of Sonny boy killed because she had the audacity to ask her for $200 for an abortion, when refused Mom speculated she might rat to the cops soooooo.....one of the teenage sociopaths in the organization  Moms affectionately called "my grand baby" beat her to death with a baseball bat and dumped her body off the Suitland parkway, Made Mom's very happy no doubt.

Now why da PO-lices pickin' on that Ol' Woman?

I can give you about a dozen or so other examples of asset forfeiture, many automobiles driven around by drug dealers who never had any sort of record,said vehicles never actually hauled the drugs, which brings the whole other issue of surrogate purchases and ownership, very common among criminals, organized crime etc etc.

Here is another kicker, many times you have to give those assets back if you cannot prove so and so owns it, thats why the surrogate purchases,(Dis my cousins car)  OR if there is a big note usually the cops don't file for a Forfeiture coz the Judge won't award the asset if the BANK owns it, it goes down as a "repo".

So Dude here is "clean"...?   Maybe, Maybe not.  Going back and forth across the border with a $60,000 truck, Hmmmmm, not illegal but then again The case hasn't gone to court yet, when it does any intell report will outline the probable cause, then it is up to a judge. All within the confines of the 4th and due process.




« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:06:45 PM by Billy's bayonet »
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