Say Goodbye To Twinkie

Started by Solar, November 16, 2012, 05:21:20 AM

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mdgiles

Quote from: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 09:14:44 AM
Or the different units will be sold individually. The plant in NC is closing, but NC is a right to work state. Once the bankruptcy is complete, somebody could have this plant up and running the next day, with no union involvement.

Whether Obama and the unions like it or not, as jobs become more and more scarce, I think we are going to see a continuing decline in union membership and control. The union workers are not going to sit back and watch their jobs evaporate and companies continue to close because they can no longer afford to pay them fat pensions. From the workers standpoint, it doesn't make any sense.
You're assuming that they won't just believe they have enough political pull to either, make the companies continue to pay, or use tax dollars to keep the plants going. The one big fact at the center of industrialized assembly line labor, which none  of the unions never seem to recognize; is that it was designed for unskilled labor. ANYONE with a bare minimum of training can do it. That's the weakness at the heart of unions in those industries. The interesting thing is, that over the years, as the companies have tried to change the work rules; to make the jobs more complex, more difficult - and less mind numbingly boring - the unions have fought them tooth and nail. They forced the workers to be human robots - that often end up being replaced by real robots.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

kramarat

Quote from: mdgiles on November 18, 2012, 10:56:06 AM
You're assuming that they won't just believe they have enough political pull to either, make the companies continue to pay, or use tax dollars to keep the plants going. The one big fact at the center of industrialized assembly line labor, which none  of the unions never seem to recognize; is that it was designed for unskilled labor. ANYONE with a bare minimum of training can do it. That's the weakness at the heart of unions in those industries. The interesting thing is, that over the years, as the companies have tried to change the work rules; to make the jobs more complex, more difficult - and less mind numbingly boring - the unions have fought them tooth and nail. They forced the workers to be human robots - that often end up being replaced by real robots.

I don't think any of them have enough political pull to force companies to continue to pay.............especially if the companies have to operate at negative profit. They'll just close.

I think at some point, people are just going to have to get used to the fact that some jobs don't pay very well. Nor are the companies responsible for paying low skilled labor the same wages as highly skilled labor. Rather than going on strike, they should be taking courses that will make them more valuable to future employers.

I see that Walmart employees are planning a Black Friday strike...................they want more.

I don't get it. I'm sure that their compensation was explained to them before they took the jobs, but they hired on anyway, and now want more stuff than what they signed up for.

Murph

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mdgiles

Quote from: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 11:56:40 AM
I don't think any of them have enough political pull to force companies to continue to pay.............especially if the companies have to operate at negative profit. They'll just close.

I think at some point, people are just going to have to get used to the fact that some jobs don't pay very well. Nor are the companies responsible for paying low skilled labor the same wages as highly skilled labor. Rather than going on strike, they should be taking courses that will make them more valuable to future employers.

I see that Walmart employees are planning a Black Friday strike...................they want more.

I don't get it. I'm sure that their compensation was explained to them before they took the jobs, but they hired on anyway, and now want more stuff than what they signed up for.
Because their unions have feed them the line for 80 years that they could always get them more. Unfortunately for them, the special circumstances that occurred after the WW2 made that lie seem reasonable. And the workers have simply refused to recognize that times have changed.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

kramarat

Quote from: mdgiles on November 18, 2012, 12:03:43 PM
Because their unions have feed them the line for 80 years that they could always get them more. Unfortunately for them, the special circumstances that occurred after the WW2 made that lie seem reasonable. And the workers have simply refused to recognize that times have changed.

I know people that have done very, very well working within unions.

One guy is an electrician. He retired at about 50. He's loaded. Last year, he and his wife went on an African safari. This year they are up in Canada on an all inclusive moose hunting trip. In between, they go on long range fishing trips down in Mexico, South America, etc.

I'm happy for him, but holy cow. He was just a regular electrician........pulling wires and stuff. It's no wonder that everything in the US is so expensive. :scared:

Solar

Quote from: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 12:14:04 PM
I know people that have done very, very well working within unions.

One guy is an electrician. He retired at about 50. He's loaded. Last year, he and his wife went on an African safari. This year they are up in Canada on an all inclusive moose hunting trip. In between, they go on long range fishing trips down in Mexico, South America, etc.

I'm happy for him, but holy cow. He was just a regular electrician........pulling wires and stuff. It's no wonder that everything in the US is so expensive. :scared:
LOL!!!
I have a similar story, one of my customers has a million dollar property with 7000 sq' home, swimming pool indoors, heated of course, bought a 20 thousand dollar solar water pumping system from me for his lake.

I asked how he acquired such a nice piece, he said he pulled wire as an electrician for the state of Ca. :scared:

The guy was no electrician, believe me, he was a glorified wire puller, basically a laborer, but this state is so screwed up that the guy got way overpaid.
His story is repeated throughout the state.
And people wonder why were broke? :rolleyes:
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kramarat

Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2012, 12:27:50 PM
LOL!!!
I have a similar story, one of my customers has a million dollar property with 7000 sq' home, swimming pool indoors, heated of course, bought a 20 thousand dollar solar water pumping system from me for his lake.

I asked how he acquired such a nice piece, he said he pulled wire as an electrician for the state of Ca. :scared:

The guy was no electrician, believe me, he was a glorified wire puller, basically a laborer, but this state is so screwed up that the guy got way overpaid.
His story is repeated throughout the state.
And people wonder why were broke? :rolleyes:

I have a cousin up in Mich who's ex husband worked for GM. Not a real bright guy. He worked the line doing something like installing glove compartments. Same deal.
He's probably been retired for 20 years, and from what I hear, he is flush with piles of money, big house, the whole 9 yards. It must be nice. I can't blame them for not wanting to give up the lifestyle.

Solar

Quote from: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
I have a cousin up in Mich who's ex husband worked for GM. Not a real bright guy. He worked the line doing something like installing glove compartments. Same deal.
He's probably been retired for 20 years, and from what I hear, he is flush with piles of money, big house, the whole 9 yards. It must be nice. I can't blame them for not wanting to give up the lifestyle.
I don't fault them in the least, they are merely a symptom of the disease infecting America, Unions!
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mdgiles

Quote from: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
I have a cousin up in Mich who's ex husband worked for GM. Not a real bright guy. He worked the line doing something like installing glove compartments. Same deal.
He's probably been retired for 20 years, and from what I hear, he is flush with piles of money, big house, the whole 9 yards. It must be nice. I can't blame them for not wanting to give up the lifestyle.
One of the reasons GM can't get out of the hole is that they are paying more in labor costs to retirees, than they are to their current workforce. And short of going bankrupt, which cancels the contracts, there's nothing they can do about it. They could replace their entire workforce with robots tomorrow, and they still couldn't get out from under those old contracts.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Cryptic Bert

Quote from: mdgiles on November 18, 2012, 04:44:29 PM
One of the reasons GM can't get out of the hole is that they are paying more in labor costs to retirees, than they are to their current workforce. And short of going bankrupt, which cancels the contracts, there's nothing they can do about it. They could replace their entire workforce with robots tomorrow, and they still couldn't get out from under those old contracts.
That is the biggest failure of the bailouts. They never address the actual problem. We used to have a booming steal industry but the unions killed it.

taxed

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Solar

Quote from: The Boo Man... on November 18, 2012, 07:53:08 PM
That is the biggest failure of the bailouts. They never address the actual problem. We used to have a booming steal industry but the unions killed it.
That's the facts, yet the left has taught an entirely new generation that is was evil corporations and crony Capitalism that was to blame.
And these idiots believe it, even Trumka played that very card the other day, he said Twinkie failed because of Bain style crony capitalism.

How can we win, when we have fools that actually believe that bull shit?
The more ignorant masses the left pumps out of the school system, the more ground we lose.
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Solar


Mexican Twinkies and non union workers?
As long as it's made in the US....

But the big question is whether the same problems that haunted Hostess – high sugar prices tied to US trade tariffs, changing consumer tastes, and union pushback against labor concessions – will squeeze whatever profit is left in the brands.

Especially if a Mexican buyer is involved, production may go the way of the Brach's and Fannie May candy concerns: south of the border. With US sugar tariffs set artificially high to protect Florida sugar-growing concerns, a non-unionized shop with access to lower-priced sugar in Mexico could be the Twinkie lifeline, economists suggest.

On the other hand, if Hostess' problem is its legacy delivery system, which is what University of Maryland economist Peter Morici suspects, Bimbo may be able to squeeze profits out of the supply chain while still making Twinkies in the US, albeit probably not in union shops.

"It may well be that other US producers step into the void and expand their US production, in which case the Hostess liquidation might not be a total loss," says Chris Edwards, an economist with the conservative Cato Institute.

For now, the future of 18,500 Hostess jobs are up in the air, and many may never return. As for the Twinkie? It looks like it actually is indestructible.
http://news.yahoo.com/twinkie-return-mexican-expat-180426682.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CfcOqpQgngARuLQtDMD
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walkstall

Quote from: Solar on November 19, 2012, 06:47:42 AM
Mexican Twinkies and non union workers?
As long as it's made in the US....

But the big question is whether the same problems that haunted Hostess – high sugar prices tied to US trade tariffs, changing consumer tastes, and union pushback against labor concessions – will squeeze whatever profit is left in the brands.

Especially if a Mexican buyer is involved, production may go the way of the Brach's and Fannie May candy concerns: south of the border. With US sugar tariffs set artificially high to protect Florida sugar-growing concerns, a non-unionized shop with access to lower-priced sugar in Mexico could be the Twinkie lifeline, economists suggest.

On the other hand, if Hostess' problem is its legacy delivery system, which is what University of Maryland economist Peter Morici suspects, Bimbo may be able to squeeze profits out of the supply chain while still making Twinkies in the US, albeit probably not in union shops.

"It may well be that other US producers step into the void and expand their US production, in which case the Hostess liquidation might not be a total loss," says Chris Edwards, an economist with the conservative Cato Institute.

For now, the future of 18,500 Hostess jobs are up in the air, and many may never return. As for the Twinkie? It looks like it actually is indestructible.
http://news.yahoo.com/twinkie-return-mexican-expat-180426682.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CfcOqpQgngARuLQtDMD

They should be in a Union Hall looking for a Union hand out as there should be no unemployment checks for them.
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Solar

Quote from: walkstall on November 19, 2012, 08:30:28 AM
They should be in a Union Hall looking for a Union hand out as there should be no unemployment checks for them.
Most states have laws against striking and drawing unemployment, so yes, they will be tapping the union funds. :laugh:
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