Definitely a RINO bill. Stop it Pubs - just stop it. I can't see that it's any better than ACA except for the page count - much shorter so at least we might figure out what it says.

Let the free market take this! Repeal ACA and those with health care will transition to a new steady state. All will probably go back to where it was - with the poor having no care and hospitals eating the costs for the poor's care. Then the Pubs should incentivize states to work their health care locally.

But a repeal without a replace is very unpopular. And the Pubs would have to eat crow to say they made a bad bill that they need to scrap. Trump could do it - but would make his guys look bad. I'm afraid the politics will keep this one alive. They will modify it to try and clean it up - but it will look like they are putting lipstick on a pig. The health care issue is obviously important. But tweaking this bill will be such a waste of time. 

Let's face the natural facts. Young folk have few health problems and should pay next to nothing. Old folks (like me) are going to die and if they want to cling to life with million-dollar treatments, then they have to pay for it - all of it. That leaves those where something strange happens - for example, a child get's cancer and the treatments over time are $5M. I'm on the fence on how you deal with that. But if we treat the main groups as they naturally should be treated, then the outliers (as in the example) won't be that hard to work (locally).

I semi-retired three years ago - work part-time remotely. When I came off of my former employer's COBRA, my insurance costs were going from $500 / month (wife and me) to $1400 per month under ACA. I was going to have to go back to work if I wanted the ACA insurance. There was a health-sharing form of health care from Medi-Share. It's basically a way to get care that's managed by a Christian organization that covers disasters but not pre-existing conditions until after the condition has shown it's not going to show up early (3 year and 5 year limits until coverage). I  have a pre-existing condition - aneurysm that eventually needs to get fixed unless it blows so there is that risk. The wife was not happy about it, but I wasn't going to go back to work just to pay an insurance company - would rather have a few good years enjoying life with her and then say goodbye if it comes to that. The point is, insurance is so expensive because we're trying to prop up life for a cost that is unsupportable. This will continue to be a shell game where someone loses - usually the guy at the bottom of the pile - the taxpayer.

Quote from: topside on March 07, 2017, 05:34:47 AM
Definitely a RINO bill. Stop it Pubs - just stop it. I can't see that it's any better than ACA except for the page count - much shorter so at least we might figure out what it says.

Let the free market take this! Repeal ACA and those with health care will transition to a new steady state. All will probably go back to where it was - Then the Pubs should incentivize states to work their health care locally. with the poor having no care and hospitals eating the costs for the poor's care.

But a repeal without a replace is very unpopular. And the Pubs would have to eat crow to say they made a bad bill that they need to scrap. Trump could do it - but would make his guys look bad. I'm afraid the politics will keep this one alive. They will modify it to try and clean it up - but it will look like they are putting lipstick on a pig. The health care issue is obviously important. But tweaking this bill will be such a waste of time. 

Let's face the natural facts. Young folk have few health problems and should pay next to nothing. Old folks (like me) are going to die and if they want to cling to life with million-dollar treatments, then they have to pay for it - all of it. That leaves those where something strange happens - for example, a child get's cancer and the treatments over time are $5M. I'm on the fence on how you deal with that. But if we treat the main groups as they naturally should be treated, then the outliers (as in the example) won't be that hard to work (locally).

I semi-retired three years ago - work part-time remotely. When I came off of my former employer's COBRA, my insurance costs were going from $500 / month (wife and me) to $1400 per month under ACA. I was going to have to go back to work if I wanted the ACA insurance. There was a health-sharing form of health care from Medi-Share. It's basically a way to get care that's managed by a Christian organization that covers disasters but not pre-existing conditions until after the condition has shown it's not going to show up early (3 year and 5 year limits until coverage). I  have a pre-existing condition - aneurysm that eventually needs to get fixed unless it blows so there is that risk. The wife was not happy about it, but I wasn't going to go back to work just to pay an insurance company - would rather have a few good years enjoying life with her and then say goodbye if it comes to that. The point is, insurance is so expensive because we're trying to prop up life for a cost that is unsupportable. This will continue to be a shell game where someone loses - usually the guy at the bottom of the pile - the taxpayer.

At no time has the hospitals been eating the cost!  The working people end up paying for it in a higher cost.  Just like Rx's, we pay more so other countries can pay less or not at all. 

Quote from: walkstall on March 07, 2017, 08:18:04 AM

At no time has the hospitals been eating the cost!  The working people end up paying for it in a higher cost.  Just like Rx's, we pay more so other countries can pay less or not at all.

Absolutely right, the taxpayer always foots the bill in the end, always!

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/07/10-million-to-lose-coverage-under-gops-obamacare-reform-plan.html

Get ready for these type of "the sky is falling" articles as we move forward into the replacement process for Obamacare. Yes fewer people will choose to pursue healthcare once the mandate is removed. Moving folks off of Medicaid is not bad. There is also one big missing in this article. With the mandates removed employers are more likely to move back into providing healthcare benefits, especially if the economy experiences better growth. Employers will not be reluctant to hire more than fifty employees.

It appears that the GOP disregarded both Cruz and Paul's plan.  Unfortunately they aren't repealing ... they are simply tweaking the plan.  This is an absolute disaster as the same language in the bill in regards to illegals has been kept. The cost of giving healthcare to illegals has had a crippling affect on the economy.

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/obamacare-2-point-0-is-a-gift-to-illegals-oh-and-gop-you-lie

Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 07, 2017, 02:27:57 PM
It appears that the GOP disregarded both Cruz and Paul's plan.  Unfortunately they aren't repealing ... they are simply tweaking the plan.  This is an absolute disaster as the same language in the bill in regards to illegals has been kept. The cost of giving healthcare to illegals has had a crippling affect on the economy.

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/obamacare-2-point-0-is-a-gift-to-illegals-oh-and-gop-you-lie

Need to get the government out of the insurance business and let the free market handle it! As far as people that go uninsured or can't afford insurance why not a series of government free clinics and a few core hospitals. If you don't like the free care get a freeking job!

Quote from: redbeard on March 07, 2017, 03:01:31 PM
Need to get the government out of the insurance business and let the free market handle it! As far as people that go uninsured or can't afford insurance why not a series of government free clinics and a few core hospitals. If you don't like the free care get a freeking job!

Tell it to the President: http://politistick.com/trump-proud-support-house-gop-obamacare-replacement-plan/

I'm about ready to give up...

Apparently it's DOA according to Freedom Caucus Hannity is interviewing right now...

Quote from: redbeard on March 07, 2017, 03:01:31 PM
Need to get the government out of the insurance business and let the free market handle it! As far as people that go uninsured or can't afford insurance why not a series of government free clinics and a few core hospitals. If you don't like the free care get a freeking job!

While on the surface, free clinics and core hospitals seem logical except .... many would opt not to afford health insurance and just use the free clinics and hospitals which then opens the door for single payer insurance and socialized medicine.

Quote from: taxed on March 07, 2017, 04:17:40 PM
Apparently it's DOA according to Freedom Caucus Hannity is interviewing right now...

Rand Paul also stated that he doesn't see it passing.  I hope not; from what I've read what they've rolled out isn't a whole lot different than what's in place.   

Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 07, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
Rand Paul also stated that he doesn't see it passing.  I hope not; from what I've read what they've rolled out isn't a whole lot different than what's in place.   

From what I've seen, it would be a big mess.

Here's how much this whole thing should cost: $0

Quote from: taxed on March 07, 2017, 04:17:40 PM
Apparently it's DOA according to Freedom Caucus Hannity is interviewing right now...

If it makes it out of the House, I dont see any way it makes it out of the Senate. If only Lee, Cruz, Paul, and Sasse give this the middle finger, that gives the Senate 48 votes.

Unless 2 Dems shock the world and break rank, this bill in its current state is gonna die in the Senate.

Quote from: CasND on March 07, 2017, 03:37:49 PM
I'm about ready to give up...

CasND: Never give up. Fight for what it true and right - praying and knowing that that God in whom we Trust as stated on every dollar bill has control of this despite our limited view of what happened today. And if you don't believe in God, you're a fool and you should wallow in your hopelessness. For in this creator is the hope that you need to keep going.

Under that hope, fight for what is true and right until you breathe your last. That's what the true patriots did for us when they started this Republic. They had it way harder than we do now - way harder. We need to keep up the fight for our children and future generations - that's what's at stake. The principles of the constitution haven't changed. I agree that circumstances looked pretty dismal up to last November - and even then the president elect was / is questionable. But he's in now and he's shown great strides in working toward the ideals of our republic.

And, yes, there's a bunch of crap going on now - even among the Pubs. But the election result was a miracle and there have been a lot of positive steps away from the BO Marxist regime. Yes, many have lost site of who we are - the problem we're fighting now is that the enemy of the Republic has infiltrated all around us But now is the time to act for what is right, to speak up for steps out of this mess and against what got us here in the first place. And we fight by shining light on change toward the the guiding principles of our Republic with everyone we talk to and by shining that same light on the darkness that our enemy brings against it.

I'm praying. I'm optimistic. We've seen a lot happening in the last six weeks. So chin up. Start speaking out to those you know for the good that's happening and also identify where others are taking us the wrong way.

If you're not sure what is aligned with the republic, then ask for help or post a position on this site. There are some very well-thought and experienced people here. If you can take put on thick skin and take their shit for awhile when you misstep, you can learn quite a bit. 

Daniel Horowitz was on Levin about an hour ago. He said that if he had to choose between Obamacare and this new RINOcare bill, he'd choose to keep Obamacare.