Author Topic: RAND PAUL for 2016??  (Read 3906 times)

Offline Yawn

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2012, 09:39:21 PM »
" Yawn believes government is the problem for the majority of this countries problems, but he also wants to use government to shape the country he wants." Is that okay ?

You do too. You just don't see it because it is YOUR morality that you want imposed on the rest of us.

You keep forgetting that it is YOU that wants us to head in a direction that this country has never been, NOT me.

Offline kramarat

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 03:24:33 AM »
ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Murder is a moral issue.  So is stealing.  There are many others.  In fact, ALL law is a reflection and imposition of SOMEBODY'S morality. You're also wrong that because a Supreme Court renders a decision, it's final. It is not.  Supreme Courts make mistakes. They made one in 1973. EVERYBODY knows it was wrong. It can be overturned.  Do a little homework and discover why for yourself--has to do with state's rights. 

As far as the Gay issue that seems so important to you, MARRIAGE HAS A DEFINITION.  What the queers and their supporters are demanding is that the federal government impose their definition on us by CHANGING that definition.  Again, you support THAT imposition of homosexual "morality."

Like it or not, I still have the right to vote according to my concept of morality.  You do too.  I can see you will work to put people in office who will impose YOUR morality on the rest of us--the right to kill your child, and to change the definition of marriage.  Those are principles I will oppose just as every generation has until this century (2000 to 2012)

You sure have a gift for putting words in my mouth. :glare:

I hate abortion, and I am completely against redefining the word marriage.

There is a big problem with demanding that the federal government operate beyond the duties that are outlined in the constitution, and implement law based on your personal moral code. Like it or not, millions of people don't consider abortion to be murder. It's just a fact.

It's also a two way street.
There are people that think that cutting down trees is murder. There are people that think that we are murdering the planet with CO2. As a result, we now have an EPA that is choking the life out of US business and manufacturing.

A very strong case could be made, that our war on terrorism has gone way beyond national defense, and amounts to nothing more than murder. Water boarding has been deemed to be morally wrong, as well as all enhanced interrogation. Therefore, we have willingly abandoned the gathering of the intel that led us to Bin Laden.

By catering to our moral and emotional demands, the government has become a giant vine that threatens to choke the life out of our entire country. They are spending money that my 5 year old daughter hasn't even earned yet. We are at a fiscal cliff, and the bulk of baby boomers are just now beginning to retire. There won't be enough people paying taxes in 20 years to even run a basic government.

If we don't prioritize our demands, and insist on limiting the size, scope, and expense of government as goal #1, none of the other stuff will matter. Our country will be bankrupt and finished. Unlike Greece, no one will be around to bail us out.


Offline kramarat

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 04:45:16 AM »
As long as we continue to think that it is Washington's job to stop other people from doing things we don't like, whether it is abortion, smoking pot, cutting down trees, saying a prayer in school, owning guns, drilling for oil, eating unhealthy food....................................ad nauseum.

We will get exactly what we deserve. A massive government that is directly involved in every aspect of our lives. Freedom will become a distant memory.

Offline Shooterman

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 05:48:22 AM »
I love the government the Founders gave us.  I HATE the government and the morality the Democrat Party is IMPOSING on us -- always moving to the left toward Communism.

After 70 years, the government the Founders gave us, ceased to exist.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.


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Offline Darth Fife

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 06:49:33 AM »
After 70 years, the government the Founders gave us, ceased to exist.

True dat!
I've got good news and bad news:

The good news is the Republicans won the Senate and now control both houses of Congress.

The bad news is the Republicans won the Senate and now control both houses of Congress.

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2012, 07:45:37 AM »
As long as we continue to think that it is Washington's job to stop other people from doing things we don't like, whether it is abortion, smoking pot, cutting down trees, saying a prayer in school, owning guns, drilling for oil, eating unhealthy food....................................ad nauseum.

We will get exactly what we deserve. A massive government that is directly involved in every aspect of our lives. Freedom will become a distant memory.

Bingo.

Either we support individual liberty and private property or we support collective decision making and the some form of social engineering.

Just because someone may not like pot smokers does not give them the right to support jailing them, no more than I have the moral right to support the use of violence to compel others to act according to my preferences.

Statists are all too willing to use the state to enforce their view of the world on other individuals, whether it about drug use, immigration, religious issues or whatever.

How about letting people making up their own minds? How about respecting private property?

And if every election is about imposing one belief system or another- when does the hard work of actually limiting government ever get done?

A government big enough to micromanage your life is big enough to print money, start needless wars, and make a mockery of the rule of law.

It is time we learn that true freedom means only having control of your own actions.

This means that others will no doubt act in ways that we find objectionable.

As long as there is no property rights infringement involved in these acts- we as outside observers have no say in the matter.

That is true freedom.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline Darth Fife

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2012, 07:50:19 AM »
As long as we continue to think that it is Washington's job to stop other people from doing things we don't like, whether it is abortion, smoking pot, cutting down trees, saying a prayer in school, owning guns, drilling for oil, eating unhealthy food....................................ad nauseum.

We will get exactly what we deserve. A massive government that is directly involved in every aspect of our lives. Freedom will become a distant memory.

Which why I think we need to repeal the 14th Amendment.

Especially section !

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is what usurps the state's sovereignty.
I've got good news and bad news:

The good news is the Republicans won the Senate and now control both houses of Congress.

The bad news is the Republicans won the Senate and now control both houses of Congress.

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2012, 07:53:31 AM »
I think it should remain illegal.

The thing that bothers me about this issue (other than a few of you guys who obsess over your "right" to be stoned, I NEVER think about the issue) is that with all of the serious issues facing us, the liberals and the anarchist libertarians spend their days debating about their "right" to go through life stoned.  That tells me we're in deep trouble.
You never think about it but none the less excuse the use of violence on people who have harmed no one?

I have to wonder how you can justify putting people in jail (which is an act of aggression) who have themselves violated the rights of no one?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 08:00:50 AM by TowardLiberty »
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline Yawn

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2012, 08:13:51 AM »
You never think about it but none the less excuse the use of violence on people who have harmed no one?

I have to wonder how you can justify putting people in jail (which is an act of aggression) who have themselves violated the rights of no one?

You're putting words in my mouth.  Why not deal with what I SAY instead of extrapolating my position based on your own bias of Conservatism.

Can you tell me exactly what you want??

We're talking about the federal government right?  What your STATE does is between you and your state.

Are you advocating a Roe v Wade type decision from the Supreme Court with the ridiculous claim that will take this from the states and the people of the state?


I am NOT going to continue this drug legalization debate with the potheads here.  It's NOT my issue.  I've told you my VIEW and why, but THIS is not my issue and Im not going to keep debating it.  Do what you want.  I'll vote the way I choose. 

THESE are the make or break issues for me

Abortion
ILLEGAL "Immigration"
Changing the definition of Marriage


Try to stay focused.  And no, the authorities are NOT "committing violence" against you if you go to jail for breaking the law. You're just silly.

And yes, MIND ALTERING DRUGS DO affect others and society.

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2012, 08:21:01 AM »
You're putting words in my mouth.  Why not deal with what I SAY instead of extrapolating my position based on your own bias of Conservatism.

Can you tell me exactly what you want??

We're talking about the federal government right?  What your STATE does is between you and your state.

Are you advocating a Roe v Wade type decision from the Supreme Court with the ridiculous claim that will take this from the states and the people of the state?


I am NOT going to continue this drug legalization debate with the potheads here.  It's NOT my issue.  I've told you my VIEW and why, but THIS is not my issue and Im not going to keep debating it.  Do what you want.  I'll vote the way I choose. 

THESE are the make or break issues for me

Abortion
ILLEGAL "Immigration"
Changing the definition of Marriage


Try to stay focused.  And no, the authorities are NOT "committing violence" against you if you go to jail for breaking the law. You're just silly.

And yes, MIND ALTERING DRUGS DO affect others and society.

I am just trying to nail done your justification for putting people into cages who themselves have not hurt anyone else, but simply engage in a behavior you find unpleasant.

If we cant agree on basic principles such as inalienable natural rights, I see little reason to discuss fluff issues like gay marriage or abortion.

And it is a use of violence to jail someone. The question is under what situations is this justified?

If you dont see the force and violence inherent in cuffing someone and putting them in a cage then we simply don't live in the same reality.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline kramarat

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 08:24:52 AM »
You're putting words in my mouth.  Why not deal with what I SAY instead of extrapolating my position based on your own bias of Conservatism.

Can you tell me exactly what you want??

We're talking about the federal government right?  What your STATE does is between you and your state.

Are you advocating a Roe v Wade type decision from the Supreme Court with the ridiculous claim that will take this from the states and the people of the state?


I am NOT going to continue this drug legalization debate with the potheads here.  It's NOT my issue.  I've told you my VIEW and why, but THIS is not my issue and Im not going to keep debating it.  Do what you want.  I'll vote the way I choose. 

THESE are the make or break issues for me

Abortion
ILLEGAL "Immigration"
Changing the definition of Marriage


Try to stay focused.  And no, the authorities are NOT "committing violence" against you if you go to jail for breaking the law. You're just silly.

And yes, MIND ALTERING DRUGS DO affect others and society.

The $20+ trillion in debt that Obama is going to leave us in, doesn't even make the top three? :confused:

Yikes!

Offline Yawn

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2012, 08:31:56 AM »
Did I say HOW someone should be punished for "possession"?  Distribution?  Can you provide a link where I said HOW someone should be punished.

Why the obsession with this when the country is about to collapse????  DO WHAT YOU WANT. You're useless to your brethren anyway (your obsession tells me so).


Do you want a Roe v Wade decision from the Supreme Court to take this from the states?

If I speed 50 over and kill no one are the police committing violence against me if  I have to pay a fine? If they put me in jail?

Do you want a Roe  v Wade decision to take away your employer's right to fire you for violating his drug policy?

Again, DO WHAT YOU WANT. smoke yourself silly. I really don't give a damn.  There are reasons it should remain ILLEGAL though. I won't wast my time on this

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2012, 08:34:19 AM »
The $20+ trillion in debt that Obama is going to leave us in, doesn't even make the top three? :confused:

Yikes!
And how about the future of the dollar?

The new normal of anemic economic growth?

How about the various controls and policies that limit job creation and competition, such as licenses, patents, copyrights, tariffs, quotas, subsidies, price controls.. etc?

Nah.

Abortion, gay marriage and illegal immigration are the real challenges facing people in their everyday lives. That is where focus needs to be.

/sarcasm
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2012, 08:37:15 AM »
Did I say HOW someone should be punished for "possession"?  Distribution?  Can you provide a link where I said HOW someone should be punished.

Why the obsession with this when the country is about to collapse????  DO WHAT YOU WANT. You're useless to your brethren anyway (your obsession tells me so).

Because it gets right to heart of the problems with this country and this government- the lack of respect for property and individual liberty.

Quote

Do you want a Roe v Wade decision from the Supreme Court to take this from the states?

Say what?

Quote

If I speed 50 over and kill no one are the police committing violence against me if  I have to pay a fine? If they put me in jail?

Yes.

All instances of force are violent, by their very definition.

This is why political philosophy describes government as a monopoly on legal violence.
Quote
Do you want a Roe  v Wade decision to take away your employer's right to fire you for violating his drug policy?

No.

I believe in free association.

Quote
Again, DO WHAT YOU WANT. smoke yourself silly. I really don't give a damn.  There are reasons it should remain ILLEGAL though. I won't wast my time on this

I am still waiting on the moral justification for putting another human in a cage, like an animal.

You better have a good reason before you stick someone in a cage...

Let's see what it is about drug use/possession that in your mind justifies caging humans?

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 08:42:16 AM by TowardLiberty »
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline Yawn

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Re: RAND PAUL for 2016??
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2012, 08:37:17 AM »
Here's what's funny.  I posted my problem with Rand Paul over his George Bush/Obama sympathy for 20 million invaders as the reason why I won't vote for him if he runs. It's why I won't vote for Jeb Bush.  It's ONE reason I despise McCain.

Yet the Ron Paul types here latch onto the thread as a debate about RECREATIONAL DRUG USE.  This is where they always go, and it's why they enjoy <1% support.

The country is collapsing and their focus is getting high because they can't handle real life.


 

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