What happened to America?
I was born into a world where everyone had a common bond, they respected one another, shared the belief that we were all guaranteed certain inalienable Rights granted to us by God, that the govt, though rather small, was there to protect these indivisible rights, it was after all, in our Constitution, you didn't have to agree with everyone, but you respected their Right to achieve their own dreams as long as they weren't disrespecting anyone else, Right?
This was the beauty of America, that everyone could live a life free of interference, not have to think about Govt, because it was small, it was somewhere in the East in a place called DC and we elected people to Represent our interests so we could go about our daily lives unimpeded.
For the most part life was good, the only time anyone talked politics was when the 6:00 news came on, because the rest of our time was spent focusing on helping others out, working, enjoying life in general.
I know many of you remember these days, where the only time you were angered was when you turned on that damned news and you either saw protests over something, and yes, the list is long, but it was generally isolated to that place in DC we never thought about.
My question is, can anyone point to a single incident that changed this Nation to start down the path that led us to the mess we're in today, where we have an entire generation of people that think Govt isn't doing enough?
Was it perchance FDR' Social Security act, where suddenly the fruits of your labor weren't yours but rather the govt' and it decided? Could this have been that single moment when we lost sight?
Our Founders didn't even like Govt, but they saw it as a necessary evil, that the State was the one with the power, yet here we have people wanting govt to actually steal money from rich people, not because they don't pay enough in taxes, no, because they were taught to hate rich people, people that followed the American Dream under Capitalism, where one was free from an oppressive govt.
Yet here is this block of people wanting what was designed to be a small and unintrusive govt, to be their weapon against the very core of our Founding Principles of Freedom.
How did this mindset become mainstream?
Let me stop there and ponder that for a moment. Is that really the mindset of America, or, is it an image the Nation is being fed for more nefarious reasons?
I believe it is the latter. This Nation is still predominantly the one I spoke of in the opening, but the media at some point began creating the illusion that a bigger Govt was a good thing and growing it would solve all the Nations ills and give voice to the oppressed, that it was the cure all and all we needed was more laws and that would somehow create more Freedom and equality. That's Right, give up Liberties so others will "Feel" they weren't being oppressed.
Oppressed in America? How ludicrous is that? We are all equal under the law, that is indisputable, yet the media creates a different image, don't they?
Sure, the majority of this brain dead thinking came from our institutions of supposed higher learning, but even then it wasn't enough to destroy our culture, because we have a working Constitution, so in truth, it comes down to a matter of opinion, yet this little thing called PC was allowed to aggregate into, or rather infect our daily lives, where some unknown power dictated what we could and could not discuss, Bill of Rights be damned.
Are you starting to see a plot developing here? Who is creating these supposed victims and for what purpose? What party pretends to be the voice of this supposed victim class and what party is adopting the principles laid down by Karl Marx?
On closing, what party is imploding because the victim classes they created, hates the ideals of the other so called "Victims" within the party? A party that included the likes of antisemites, Leftist Jews, racists, etc, none of which see eye to eye on anything.
There is no way they can appease these entities that makes for a cohesive movement, watch as the left implodes under its own weight.
Folks, we are witness to history in the making, but we are more than spectators, we give voice for those who feel powerless, so take pride in the fact that you were not only witness to the change about to take place, but you helped shape what will become a better future for the country.
Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2019, 06:25:04 AM
What happened to America?
I was born into a world where everyone had a common bond, they respected one another, shared the belief that we were all guaranteed certain inalienable Rights granted to us by God, that the govt, though rather small, was there to protect these indivisible rights, it was after all, in our Constitution, you didn't have to agree with everyone, but you respected their Right to achieve their own dreams as long as they weren't disrespecting anyone else, Right?
This was the beauty of America, that everyone could live a life free of interference, not have to think about Govt, because it was small, it was somewhere in the East in a place called DC and we elected people to Represent our interests so we could go about our daily lives unimpeded.
For the most part life was good, the only time anyone talked politics was when the 6:00 news came on, because the rest of our time was spent focusing on helping others out, working, enjoying life in general.
I know many of you remember these days, where the only time you were angered was when you turned on that damned news and you either saw protests over something, and yes, the list is long, but it was generally isolated to that place in DC we never thought about.
My question is, can anyone point to a single incident that changed this Nation to start down the path that led us to the mess we're in today, where we have an entire generation of people that think Govt isn't doing enough?
Was it perchance FDR' Social Security act, where suddenly the fruits of your labor weren't yours but rather the govt' and it decided? Could this have been that single moment when we lost sight?
Our Founders didn't even like Govt, but they saw it as a necessary evil, that the State was the one with the power, yet here we have people wanting govt to actually steal money from rich people, not because they don't pay enough in taxes, no, because they were taught to hate rich people, people that followed the American Dream under Capitalism, where one was free from an oppressive govt.
Yet here is this block of people wanting what was designed to be a small and unintrusive govt, to be their weapon against the very core of our Founding Principles of Freedom.
How did this mindset become mainstream?
Let me stop there and ponder that for a moment. Is that really the mindset of America, or, is it an image the Nation is being fed for more nefarious reasons?
I believe it is the latter. This Nation is still predominantly the one I spoke of in the opening, but the media at some point began creating the illusion that a bigger Govt was a good thing and growing it would solve all the Nations ills and give voice to the oppressed, that it was the cure all and all we needed was more laws and that would somehow create more Freedom and equality. That's Right, give up Liberties so others will "Feel" they weren't being oppressed.
Oppressed in America? How ludicrous is that? We are all equal under the law, that is indisputable, yet the media creates a different image, don't they?
Sure, the majority of this brain dead thinking came from our institutions of supposed higher learning, but even then it wasn't enough to destroy our culture, because we have a working Constitution, so in truth, it comes down to a matter of opinion, yet this little thing called PC was allowed to aggregate into, or rather infect our daily lives, where some unknown power dictated what we could and could not discuss, Bill of Rights be damned.
Are you starting to see a plot developing here? Who is creating these supposed victims and for what purpose? What party pretends to be the voice of this supposed victim class and what party is adopting the principles laid down by Karl Marx?
On closing, what party is imploding because the victim classes they created, hates the ideals of the other so called "Victims" within the party? A party that included the likes of antisemites, Leftist Jews, racists, etc, none of which see eye to eye on anything.
There is no way they can appease these entities that makes for a cohesive movement, watch as the left implodes under its own weight.
Folks, we are witness to history in the making, but we are more than spectators, we give voice for those who feel powerless, so take pride in the fact that you were not only witness to the change about to take place, but you helped shape what will become a better future for the country.
You pose a very interesting question. I agree with your basic premise that our country has changed tremendously in our lifetime. My overall synopsis is that it has been a 60 year evolution that started in the late 50's.
One big thing that changed was TV. It opened up many doors to many who had lived in a "small" world. Also, after WW II the country was united as America had fought a very understandable effort. As we moved into the 60's we learned our world was not so black and white.
The Vietnam war was not as easy to understand as our previous wars and it became politicized and rightfully questioned. Then, we turned our country's cultural values upside down with the Great Society and other social programs. The evolution had just begun and gathered momentum as we moved forward. Then, some of the malcontents of the 60's matured and moved into positions of influence. All during this period we lost our education system to the left and a previous solid rock of our society was undermined. That is where we are now.
The above is a very brief synopsis of what has happened to our country.
QuoteMy question is, can anyone point to a single incident that changed this Nation to start down the path that led us to the mess we're in today
Greedy politicians!
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 14, 2019, 07:18:44 AM
You pose a very interesting question. I agree with your basic premise that our country has changed tremendously in our lifetime. My overall synopsis is that it has been a 60 year evolution that started in the late 50's.
One big thing that changed was TV. It opened up many doors to many who had lived in a "small" world. Also, after WW II the country was united as America had fought a very understandable effort. As we moved into the 60's we learned our world was not so black and white.
The Vietnam war was not as easy to understand as our previous wars and it became politicized and rightfully questioned. Then, we turned our country's cultural values upside down with the Great Society and other social programs. The evolution had just begun and gathered momentum as we moved forward. Then, some of the malcontents of the 60's matured and moved into positions of influence. All during this period we lost our education system to the left and a previous solid rock of our society was undermined. That is where we are now.
The above is a very brief synopsis of what has happened to our country.
I agree. Most definitely TV was the turning point, and the Internet will be its downfall. The Silent Majority Has its own medium now.
Though, I do think our culture shifted with prohibition, WWII took the men off to war, they came back with newfound optimism because they had skills and didn't need to return to the farm, the malcontents in places like SF were Beatniks, the predecessor of the hippy generation, of which neither group wanted to contribute to society, just complain about it.
Hippies infiltrated by the Marxist culture fostered (as you pointed out) today's leadership issues.
Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2019, 08:32:42 AM
I agree. Most definitely TV was the turning point, and the Internet will be its downfall. The Silent Majority Has its own medium now.
Though, I do think our culture shifted with prohibition, WWII took the men off to war, they came back with newfound optimism because they had skills and didn't need to return to the farm, the malcontents in places like SF were Beatniks, the predecessor of the hippy generation, of which neither group wanted to contribute to society, just complain about it.
Hippies infiltrated by the Marxist culture fostered (as you pointed out) today's leadership issues.
Those of us who were just embarking on our adult life in the 60's had a big choice to make. We could choose to take the path our parents had pointed out to us or to follow the left that was founded in SF. I am grateful I made the right choice.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 14, 2019, 08:57:33 AM
Those of us who were just embarking on our adult life in the 60's had a big choice to make. We could choose to take the path our parents had pointed out to us or to follow the left that was founded in SF. I am grateful I made the right choice.
It's kind of funny, my parents didn't so much steer me, rather, they did by example. Mostly my dad instilling values of basic decency and respect for all life. All Life Matters!
We have two entire generations devoid of this quality.
What spurred this thread on, was a dream I had last night. I was at a golf course with a local celebrity, we were playing golf, he expressed how he worked his ass off 17 hrs a day and this was his only place he could go to get away from it all, he pointed out all the doctors and scientists that shared his moment of peace, how they too worked hard to contribute to society.
They wanted to make a difference in the world and what little time and money they could afford, this is how they replenished their sanity, by picking up a club and bashing a ball around acres of nature, all the while conversing with others that shared their same values in this quiet setting.
In the back ground was a wall surrounding the entire course and on that wall was a bunch of angry protesters yelling at these poor guys because these protesters didn't believe the golfers were paying enough taxes.
So yeah, I woke up thinking how misguided these idiots were in demanding the producers in society should pay more to grow a govt that would steal more from them just to appease a noisy minority that didn't want to work to get ahead.
Sound familiar?
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: So much truth in this topic. Your rambling thoughts actually make sense.... Toy
Quote from: walkstall on April 14, 2019, 07:52:08 AM
Greedy politicians!
The answer is Democrats, Socialists, and Communists. That includes politicians though.
Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2019, 06:25:04 AM
Are you starting to see a plot developing here? Who is creating these supposed victims and for what purpose? What party pretends to be the voice of this supposed victim class and what party is adopting the principles laid down by Karl Marx?
On closing, what party is imploding because the victim classes they created, hates the ideals of the other so called "Victims" within the party? A party that included the likes of antisemites, Leftist Jews, racists, etc, none of which see eye to eye on anything.
There is no way they can appease these entities that makes for a cohesive movement, watch as the left implodes under its own weight.
Folks, we are witness to history in the making, but we are more than spectators, we give voice for those who feel powerless, so take pride in the fact that you were not only witness to the change about to take place, but you helped shape what will become a better future for the country.
This proves what I stated is true, that the party leadership no longer holds the keys to the shackles that enslaves victims within the Dim Plantation, the slaves are revolting.
Rashida Tlaib
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1016708025418240001/HC2KSgAT_400x400.jpg)
@RashidaTlaib
They put us in photos when they want to show our party is diverse. However, when we ask to be at the table, or speak up about issues that impact who we are, what we fight for & why we ran in the first place, we are ignored. To truly honor our diversity is to never silence us.
Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2019, 08:32:42 AM
I agree. Most definitely TV was the turning point, and the Internet will be its downfall. The Silent Majority Has its own medium now.
Though, I do think our culture shifted with prohibition, WWII took the men off to war, they came back with newfound optimism because they had skills and didn't need to return to the farm, the malcontents in places like SF were Beatniks, the predecessor of the hippy generation, of which neither group wanted to contribute to society, just complain about it.
Hippies infiltrated by the Marxist culture fostered (as you pointed out) today's leadership issues.
I graduated high school in 1969 and in 1970 I attended college. I remember the colleges had a whole lot of Chairman Mao, Fidel Castro and Che Gueverra sympathy and there was much distrust and hatred of Nixon and our government. Many of those who were at college then, went on to become grade school & college teachers, as well as populated the media and government. Others, got a job with had nothing to do with politics and created a family and put away all the foolish things we had been spoon fed by radical teachers.
One of the unintented consequences of the world becoming 'wired' and 24 hour digital broadcasting has been that people are not left alone to figure out life for themselves. It is the same propaganda that kids get when they leave home and go to college, but it's non stop and now comes from every media source.
In spite of the magnitude of this problem, I still believe in certain constant truths. Many of these come straight from scripture, such as; "when I was I child I thought as a child, but when I grew to be a man, I put aside my childish ways". It's very emotionally immature for individuals to act purely upon their emotions. Most rational, mature individuals learn from life that it is better to control one's emotions and at least make an effort to allow reason and an interpretation of facts, determine one's actions. Not all Liberals are emotionally immature. Alan Dershowitz is a good example of this. However, the Far Left have LEFT the Liberal Reason Depot a long time ago. They are on a sugar high fueled by 24/7 non-stop Far Left Propaganda.
For me it was the day J.F.K. was assassinated. L.b.j. was a dirty politician when he was just a local, but I thought he was the only one, he became a dirty president. Up until he hit the national scene, I had respect for congress and our government. I'm not saying he is to blame for what is going on today, that could be debated though, but he did open my eyes. When the press tried to make him out to be a good president, I saw how crooked they were too. It didn't help he was followed by nixon, and later carter. During those years, congress went to hell. It's a minor miracle we have as many great kids as we do have in this country when you consider so many who are blessed to run this country should be behind bars.
My two cents worth.
There have always been pockets across the country where communists and the hate America first crowd have gathered... in the past, just a few times they've risen to public interest - largely *timing*. The right message for the state of affairs.
Consider WW1, we were neutral and intended to stay that way, demonstrations in the streets, demands for neutrality ... but, were sucked in anyways (making no other comments)
WW2 ... could be debated at length, whether or not Japan would have attacked us, why and for what ultimate purpose ... but, we had to fight - and the leftist protesters in the streets were all but silenced.
Korean war, Viet Nam war, Iraq war ... there has always been Communists trying to take advantage of the country, they lie in wait, till the timing is ripe for action.
The Globalists, would play any, or both sides, enriching themselves, without any ties to any political system, if they could remain viable.
Since I'm originally from the midwest, Madison & Milwaukee - and my parents worked in the Barry Goldwater campaign, they were really odd-balls among the sea of radical liberals, dead-head libertarians, socialists and communists. From the early '60s, what we know as the Hate America First groups, they've always been here. What's constantly changing, the next generation growing up, and flip-flopping from one to the other - my generation (and friends) all became America loving Conservatives, Constitutional loving Conservatives. 40 years ago - we were either libertarians or moderate socialists. We sang "This land is your land" - that great communist hymn with enthusiasm - I grew up in one of those "pockets", unlike most Americans.
"Hoofer... what happened, you were really out-there, man. I gave up on you, thought you'd never, ever change!"
Like living in a communist country, every news channel on TV & Radio had the same message. The most radical message we heard was Milton Fredman interviewed by Phil Donohue... and considered him a greedy SOB Capitalist. Rush Limbaugh came along, and where there was no humor (other than snarky sarcasm of SNL or generally negative crap), we started to LAUGH, it was OK poke fun at... >gasp< ourselves? Remember, this is Madison, WI and Milwaukee, WI., politically Socialist - like Berkley of the Midwest. A Conservative would get a radio slot and the station would be slammed with mail demanding he/she be off-the-air.
I'm not the battle-lines-have-been-drawn, so go arm yourself kinda guy, nope, not when we can "convert" the other side to OUR side.
Why is there so much division?
a. Because the Marxist left thought they had it made with Obama, overreached and blew it.
A lot of people just 'went along' like dumb sheep... "well, I guess our best days are behind us" ... the Left was big gains, the entire country was dramatically moving left, it seemed... diminished hope.
b. President Donald Trump (libs hate that), won with a Patriotic message, of hope, prosperity, independence, less government, respect, etc., drawing some of the electorate back, but giving VOICE to frustrated Conservatives. It almost looked like the Left's gains were a Hopey / Changey mirage. Mueller turning up nothing & Clapper admitting they were SPYING has the left pulling their hair out - the MSM has been left decimated in viewership. Why would anyone trust them, two years of lying?
c. I doubt anyone really wanted Hillary Clinton, other than the MSM, and the DC leftists Obama implanted to facilitate a complete reconstruction of our country. Obama said, "We are the ones we were waiting for!" - a quote, right out of New Age & Globalist writings.
Donald Trump has taken away the talking points of the left, and beats them at their own game, Hillary was an easy win, but, who expected President Trump (libs hate that) to carry out his agenda with this kind of success!?
From here, the left has no warrior for 2020, nothing positive to run on, primal screams & pussy protests get negative attention, "What the hell is wrong with those people, Mildred?" Even more infuriating, they pumped millions into democrat campaigns - and still lost.
IMO, the division is one the left created (well, widened), we haven't moved. Fortunately for us, people are seeing it for what it's really worth, divide and conquer America. Leftist have always been with us, and always will. Trump had the right message, and it's energizing a whole new generation of the electorate. I personally... was one of those, slow to get on the Trump Train, "I'm patient, he's better than Hillary, let's see what he does.." Now I'm just amazed how much he's done, while under investigation, his agenda has been rolling right along. the Left is screaming because they're losing ground.
In a nutshell....The Vietnam war....There was a great deal of money spent by Enemy countries, Russia, China, Cuba to promote "revolution", this is where the weathermen and the black panthers and a host of other radical Marxist groups got started. They took dissent over the war and turned it into the classic "revolution"....except...it didn't work, there was no mass uprising by the "downtrodden" and the middle class. We actually had it pretty good comparitivly.
So many stealth Commie Politicians, they used their influence to hunder themilitary duing the war so that we were assured a loss. That no good rotten SOB drunk Kennedy voted against Bomb runs to the north this also vicariously impacted close air support all through the late 60's and into the 70's. This led to a lot of America GI's dying because there was no air support. I get so mad about it, even now.
Anyhow all the little bolsheviks decided the time wasn;t right for armed revolution back in the early 70's, they decided to quietly try another strategy....take over the coutry by ot firing a shot.....enter Barack Obama and half a hundred other Pols up on Capitol hill. When I returned from my overseas tour I could feel the change, the outright hostility, I never got spit on or called baby killer, but I got the looks, everybody knew who you were with that Army Buzz cut.
You ask for a definitive change? I felt it, seriously, it was whe Clinton got elected, working in Washington DC I noticed it People were more hostile to one another it seemed, almost overight. There was a increasing mood about everyone.
Previouly, if you were a democrat or a republican, nobody cared, now all of a sudden it mattered. Prior to that the Dems ad Pubs ever had an openly hostile relationship it was almost good natured...almost.
I saw the little things, we as Cops were always on these details, Head of state arrivials, motorcades to and from the Whitehouse, we always helped with the security and we had a good relationship with the Secret Service, we knew each other by name etc. All of a sudden we got new SOP's from our Bosses via the USSS....We had to undergo renewed background checks and we got told to keep our distance. Gone were the Days when President Reagan would come up to you and shake your hand and thank you and maybe tell a corny joke or two. So now I had a Deputy Inspector asking me and my men about How we felt about the President WTF is that?
I cant even begin to tell you the negative image that the AG Janet Reno projected on all of us what with "WACO" and all.
I look around today and think back to the Weathermen, The SDS the black Panthers, the SYmbonese Liberation army ad I realize they are still with us, ad very scarey, some of them are serving in cogress, they are no longer hiding what they are.
:thumbup:
Great comments guys, I'll come back later and expand a bit but I just haven't the time at the moment.
My first thought is that I think Jefferson and probably the other founders realized that the natural course of government would be to take the power away from the people. I think the constitution they wrote was intended to slow this process down but realizing that it would never stop it from taking place.
Second thought is that society moved away from Farms and into cities removed from the realities of life and surviving etc. I am sure that Maslow's hierarchy says as you move away from survival needs you move towards goals that are more based on feelings and being good. I think that dependent on being paid from large companies where the top admins get all the perks and a lot of the money led to acceptance of this type of structure. I worked in large corps and small companies and the people who spent most of their work life in a large corp are very servile to those at the top.
Then culture. The founders worked for the government out of a sense of obligation to pay back for all the good that they received from this country. Washington could have won another term but out of a sense of what is right he did not. Our politicians have no sense of doing what is right for the country and winner takes the spoils is the moral code they go by. Wish only one party had this culture but I think that both follow the same system but from different sides.
Lastly, for a variety of reasons our society has developed a large mass of people who live based on feelings. Others actions affect their feelings, their self worth is based on how they feel. Fact are not a part of the calculation. Raise minimum wage while not considering the impact of supply and demand. Not considering who it effects a business bottom line. They even believe that a business that is trying to make a profit is evil. Who can argue against a vision where everyone has free medical coverage, has enough money to live in a great home on a nice piece of land, That they want for nothing and have all that they could ever dream for. I feel that would be great, but the reality is that all of nature has winners and losers, those who succeed and those that fail. Success or failure is not preordained by where they start out and that is easy to document. Some of the failure is not the result of a persons actions, bad things happen. A society that denies this reality has to go to socialism or communism only to have reality of life hit them in the face. And historically millions leave the face of the earth in their pursuit of feeling good.
Isn't there a book that fully describes how Liberals would destroy from within?
"Paved With Good Intentions"?
I think this question is tied in with your question: when did the news become a business and when did the media decide it needed or wanted to decide how the country thinks? I remember the Kennedy/ Nixon debates where the visual was as important as the message, but what I came away with is that little box with its rolling screen had become a mainstay in the living room. I look at today where obama/ hillary received so much free air time and how the media reminds me of past underground newspapers which were not as far left as todays dims. Personally, t.v. today is not worth watching, and I don't. Maybe if the rolling screen would make a come back and bring some of those old shows with it...........
You did say rambling :lol:
Quote from: s3779m on April 17, 2019, 04:15:19 AM
I think this question is tied in with your question: when did the news become a business and when did the media decide it needed or wanted to decide how the country thinks? I remember the Kennedy/ Nixon debates where the visual was as important as the message, but what I came away with is that little box with its rolling screen had become a mainstay in the living room. I look at today where obama/ hillary received so much free air time and how the media reminds me of past underground newspapers which were not as far left as todays dims. Personally, t.v. today is not worth watching, and I don't. Maybe if the rolling screen would make a come back and bring some of those old shows with it...........
(http://you%20did%20say%20rambling):lol:
I remember the good old day before TV we all listening to the news and many good radio shows. There was only one radio in the whole house and it was in the living room by my Grandpa's or dad's chair.
Quote from: walkstall on April 17, 2019, 04:37:10 AM
I remember the good old day before TV we all listening to the news and many good radio shows. There was only one radio in the whole house and it was in the living room by my Grandpa's or dad's chair.
I remember my grandpa's, that was back when radio's were built in wood not plastic. Wish I still had it.
Quote from: s3779m on April 17, 2019, 04:15:19 AM
I think this question is tied in with your question: when did the news become a business and when did the media decide it needed or wanted to decide how the country thinks? I remember the Kennedy/ Nixon debates where the visual was as important as the message, but what I came away with is that little box with its rolling screen had become a mainstay in the living room. I look at today where obama/ hillary received so much free air time and how the media reminds me of past underground newspapers which were not as far left as todays dims. Personally, t.v. today is not worth watching, and I don't. Maybe if the rolling screen would make a come back and bring some of those old shows with it...........
You did say rambling :lol:
You make a lot of great sense though. I remember the radio because TV was too expensive to own for most families,, so radio was the go to for news and entertainment.
As a kid I have fond memories of the smell of Coffee and the CNS morning news intro blasting from the living room as dad readied for work.
The news was mildly sensational at the time, but equally subdued, not like the War of The Worlds broadcast, no, it was a half hour of everything you needed to know about the world that was important, anyway, after Govt filters that is.
The left had already infiltrated media and was only getting started, but they didn't hate the country, anyway they didn't let on at the time.
But within a decade all that was changing with TV as the new medium and they knew they had the perfect vessel to change culture. LBJ starts a war, and the other half of the DNC attacks America as the evil empire, whether it was planned or an opportunity, it divided the nation and the leftists capitalized on it, (See Walter Cronkite).
All the while the GOP was playing tag and the Dim party was it, and the GOP kept running away from what was actually happening. Now we have a party half infected with leftists just like the DNC was in the late 50s, but the difference in then and now, is there is true resistance against the Marxists in both party's.
I sooo miss simpler times, when people simply lived their lives without the PC filter and everything wasn't political. This is what the youth don't realize, the left made everything political, so as to create a wedge in culture.
Remember when "Anyone over 30 was the enemy"?
Trump remembers and he's fighting back for us all.
Quote from: walkstall on April 17, 2019, 04:37:10 AM
I remember the good old day before TV we all listening to the news and many good radio shows. There was only one radio in the whole house and it was in the living room by my Grandpa's or dad's chair.
We still have a couple, RCA 281 is a beautiful piece of furniture.
(https://www.radiomuseum.org/images/radio/rca/281_duo_2340743.jpeg)
Still sounds great, that rich warm sound fills the house, unlike the newer digital crap.
When it's turned on, it can be heard, quite well, from any room, the sound penetrates the walls - without being overly loud.[quote
author=s3779m link=topic=32929.msg376369#msg376369 date=1555499719]
I think this question is tied in with your question: when did the news become a business and when did the media decide it needed or wanted to decide how the country thinks?
...
Personally, t.v. today is not worth watching, and I don't. Maybe if the rolling screen would make a come back and bring some of those old shows with it...........
[/quote]
Look back to some of Benjamin Franklin's articles - not much has changed in "news" bias. IMO, when you have a lot of CHOICES, then it seems there is bias. Otherwise, it sounds like everyone is happily in "agreement" - completely backwards!
We don't have a TV, but, do watch old movies from the 1930-50's, many B&W and find they actually have a story line, dialogue and engage the brain a little more than the blunt action of the stuff produced since 1960 on. We also like the old time radio shows, you can work while you listen.
Even more disturbing than what the MSM puts out, what some individuals actually post in the news blogs... no political spectrum lacks these anarchist types, IMO. Over the weekend, one lady posted a video, advocating lawlessness over her Taxes, claiming some higher authority (something like that). And... then came the calls for taking up arms - rather than organizing to use the political process for change in tax law. People are free to say anything - so what - but, totally ignoring the political process for 4 decades, and *suddenly* one morning, "This is robbery! We need to rebel! Take up arms and march on DC!... because the taxpayer dollars fund Planned Parenthood..." If these characters actually *did* what they advocate, it'd be their very quick end. "It's a Republic, if you can keep it", there is a process worth following.
IMO the real revolution, a public forum for discussion of ideas - is places like THIS site. One way to know Constitutional Conservatives are on the right side - the other side, with no answer, calls for censure, controls, pressure to shut down opposing outlets.
I'm not a very well read historian. But, I can't see when there was a time when Americans weren't facing conflict, contentious conversations and flat out arguments with each other over the nature and direction the country was headed. The revolution was begun by a minority, same with the Civil war, and by the time of the 1st WW, newspapers were in wide circulation and opinion pieces were just as scathing as ever. What has changed?
American history started long before me, that was my first mistake, thinking, "It's never, ever been this way before."
Quote from: wally on April 14, 2019, 12:11:17 PM
I graduated high school in 1969 and in 1970 I attended college. I remember the colleges had a whole lot of Chairman Mao, Fidel Castro and Che Gueverra sympathy and there was much distrust and hatred of Nixon and our government. Many of those who were at college then, went on to become grade school & college teachers, as well as populated the media and government. Others, got a job with had nothing to do with politics and created a family and put away all the foolish things we had been spoon fed by radical teachers.
One of the unintented consequences of the world becoming 'wired' and 24 hour digital broadcasting has been that people are not left alone to figure out life for themselves. It is the same propaganda that kids get when they leave home and go to college, but it's non stop and now comes from every media source.
In spite of the magnitude of this problem, I still believe in certain constant truths. Many of these come straight from scripture, such as; "when I was I child I thought as a child, but when I grew to be a man, I put aside my childish ways". It's very emotionally immature for individuals to act purely upon their emotions. Most rational, mature individuals learn from life that it is better to control one's emotions and at least make an effort to allow reason and an interpretation of facts, determine one's actions. Not all Liberals are emotionally immature. Alan Dershowitz is a good example of this. However, the Far Left have LEFT the Liberal Reason Depot a long time ago. They are on a sugar high fueled by 24/7 non-stop Far Left Propaganda.
Soo true, libs are children, emotional baskets of waste that react like Pavlov's dogs on command, we see it daily how the media has brainwashed them to overreact when they hear "Trump", thoughts of evil racist embed like arrows in their blank slates minds.
I get the same genuine hate when I hear of someones abusing puppies, you know, a real evil, but these libs are somehow as emotionally involved and can't separate the image they've created in their minds to see reality.
Thank God we're beating these zombies.
Quote from: Hoofer on April 17, 2019, 11:52:59 AM
We still have a couple, RCA 281 is a beautiful piece of furniture.
(https://www.radiomuseum.org/images/radio/rca/281_duo_2340743.jpeg)
Still sounds great, that rich warm sound fills the house, unlike the newer digital crap.
When it's turned on, it can be heard, quite well, from any room, the sound penetrates the walls - without being overly loud.
Look back to some of Benjamin Franklin's articles - not much has changed in "news" bias. IMO, when you have a lot of CHOICES, then it seems there is bias. Otherwise, it sounds like everyone is happily in "agreement" - completely backwards!
We don't have a TV, but, do watch old movies from the 1930-50's, many B&W and find they actually have a story line, dialogue and engage the brain a little more than the blunt action of the stuff produced since 1960 on. We also like the old time radio shows, you can work while you listen.
Even more disturbing than what the MSM puts out, what some individuals actually post in the news blogs... no political spectrum lacks these anarchist types, IMO. Over the weekend, one lady posted a video, advocating lawlessness over her Taxes, claiming some higher authority (something like that). And... then came the calls for taking up arms - rather than organizing to use the political process for change in tax law. People are free to say anything - so what - but, totally ignoring the political process for 4 decades, and *suddenly* one morning, "This is robbery! We need to rebel! Take up arms and march on DC!... because the taxpayer dollars fund Planned Parenthood..." If these characters actually *did* what they advocate, it'd be their very quick end. "It's a Republic, if you can keep it", there is a process worth following.
IMO the real revolution, a public forum for discussion of ideas - is places like THIS site. One way to know Constitutional Conservatives are on the right side - the other side, with no answer, calls for censure, controls, pressure to shut down opposing outlets.
I'm not a very well read historian. But, I can't see when there was a time when Americans weren't facing conflict, contentious conversations and flat out arguments with each other over the nature and direction the country was headed. The revolution was begun by a minority, same with the Civil war, and by the time of the 1st WW, newspapers were in wide circulation and opinion pieces were just as scathing as ever. What has changed?
American history started long before me, that was my first mistake, thinking, "It's never, ever been this way before."
More care and skill went into that cabinet than the lsm puts into their programing today.
Quote from: s3779m on April 14, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
For me it was the day J.F.K. was assassinated. L.b.j. was a dirty politician when he was just a local, but I thought he was the only one, he became a dirty president. Up until he hit the national scene, I had respect for congress and our government. I'm not saying he is to blame for what is going on today, that could be debated though, but he did open my eyes. When the press tried to make him out to be a good president, I saw how crooked they were too. It didn't help he was followed by nixon, and later carter. During those years, congress went to hell. It's a minor miracle we have as many great kids as we do have in this country when you consider so many who are blessed to run this country should be behind bars.
There's a lot of truth in what you say and I agree, it was his policies that destroyed the nuclear black family. This had a huge impact on our culture, from fatherless children, to pants down around your knees, the left fed and pushed this crap off as the next fad, knowing full well the destructive results that would follow.
It was LBJ that lit the fire when he sent people from the projects out to Ca to live off the tax payer. The rest is history.
Quote from: Hoofer on April 14, 2019, 04:31:57 PM
My two cents worth.
There have always been pockets across the country where communists and the hate America first crowd have gathered... in the past, just a few times they've risen to public interest - largely *timing*. The right message for the state of affairs.
Consider WW1, we were neutral and intended to stay that way, demonstrations in the streets, demands for neutrality ... but, were sucked in anyways (making no other comments)
WW2 ... could be debated at length, whether or not Japan would have attacked us, why and for what ultimate purpose ... but, we had to fight - and the leftist protesters in the streets were all but silenced.
Korean war, Viet Nam war, Iraq war ... there has always been Communists trying to take advantage of the country, they lie in wait, till the timing is ripe for action.
The Globalists, would play any, or both sides, enriching themselves, without any ties to any political system, if they could remain viable.
Since I'm originally from the midwest, Madison & Milwaukee - and my parents worked in the Barry Goldwater campaign, they were really odd-balls among the sea of radical liberals, dead-head libertarians, socialists and communists. From the early '60s, what we know as the Hate America First groups, they've always been here. What's constantly changing, the next generation growing up, and flip-flopping from one to the other - my generation (and friends) all became America loving Conservatives, Constitutional loving Conservatives. 40 years ago - we were either libertarians or moderate socialists. We sang "This land is your land" - that great communist hymn with enthusiasm - I grew up in one of those "pockets", unlike most Americans.
"Hoofer... what happened, you were really out-there, man. I gave up on you, thought you'd never, ever change!"
Like living in a communist country, every news channel on TV & Radio had the same message. The most radical message we heard was Milton Fredman interviewed by Phil Donohue... and considered him a greedy SOB Capitalist. Rush Limbaugh came along, and where there was no humor (other than snarky sarcasm of SNL or generally negative crap), we started to LAUGH, it was OK poke fun at... >gasp< ourselves? Remember, this is Madison, WI and Milwaukee, WI., politically Socialist - like Berkley of the Midwest. A Conservative would get a radio slot and the station would be slammed with mail demanding he/she be off-the-air.
I'm not the battle-lines-have-been-drawn, so go arm yourself kinda guy, nope, not when we can "convert" the other side to OUR side.
Why is there so much division?
a. Because the Marxist left thought they had it made with Obama, overreached and blew it.
A lot of people just 'went along' like dumb sheep... "well, I guess our best days are behind us" ... the Left was big gains, the entire country was dramatically moving left, it seemed... diminished hope.
b. President Donald Trump (libs hate that), won with a Patriotic message, of hope, prosperity, independence, less government, respect, etc., drawing some of the electorate back, but giving VOICE to frustrated Conservatives. It almost looked like the Left's gains were a Hopey / Changey mirage. Mueller turning up nothing & Clapper admitting they were SPYING has the left pulling their hair out - the MSM has been left decimated in viewership. Why would anyone trust them, two years of lying?
c. I doubt anyone really wanted Hillary Clinton, other than the MSM, and the DC leftists Obama implanted to facilitate a complete reconstruction of our country. Obama said, "We are the ones we were waiting for!" - a quote, right out of New Age & Globalist writings.
Donald Trump has taken away the talking points of the left, and beats them at their own game, Hillary was an easy win, but, who expected President Trump (libs hate that) to carry out his agenda with this kind of success!?
From here, the left has no warrior for 2020, nothing positive to run on, primal screams & pussy protests get negative attention, "What the hell is wrong with those people, Mildred?" Even more infuriating, they pumped millions into democrat campaigns - and still lost.
IMO, the division is one the left created (well, widened), we haven't moved. Fortunately for us, people are seeing it for what it's really worth, divide and conquer America. Leftist have always been with us, and always will. Trump had the right message, and it's energizing a whole new generation of the electorate. I personally... was one of those, slow to get on the Trump Train, "I'm patient, he's better than Hillary, let's see what he does.." Now I'm just amazed how much he's done, while under investigation, his agenda has been rolling right along. the Left is screaming because they're losing ground.
That's a good point, we as Conservatives haven't moved, we have always believed in the Founding Principles and know that any changes to our Constitution would be like pulling a single thread on the fabric of life.
They're working hard on the First, be it removing God to penalizing those that speak his name, or the fact they need o censor us on social media, which in truth doesn't effect us in the slightest, only bring awareness to what we have to say.
No, we haven't moved, the Right is packed full of like minded patriots, while the left is an infected boil full of self made victim groups that hate one another.
Remember when the East Coast Jews used to lock step vote Dim? Now look what happened, the party is so full of hate, they're showing their true antisemitic colors.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on April 14, 2019, 05:47:40 PM
In a nutshell....The Vietnam war....There was a great deal of money spent by Enemy countries, Russia, China, Cuba to promote "revolution", this is where the weathermen and the black panthers and a host of other radical Marxist groups got started. They took dissent over the war and turned it into the classic "revolution"....except...it didn't work, there was no mass uprising by the "downtrodden" and the middle class. We actually had it pretty good comparitivly.
So many stealth Commie Politicians, they used their influence to hunder themilitary duing the war so that we were assured a loss. That no good rotten SOB drunk Kennedy voted against Bomb runs to the north this also vicariously impacted close air support all through the late 60's and into the 70's. This led to a lot of America GI's dying because there was no air support. I get so mad about it, even now.
Anyhow all the little bolsheviks decided the time wasn;t right for armed revolution back in the early 70's, they decided to quietly try another strategy....take over the coutry by ot firing a shot.....enter Barack Obama and half a hundred other Pols up on Capitol hill. When I returned from my overseas tour I could feel the change, the outright hostility, I never got spit on or called baby killer, but I got the looks, everybody knew who you were with that Army Buzz cut.
You ask for a definitive change? I felt it, seriously, it was whe Clinton got elected, working in Washington DC I noticed it People were more hostile to one another it seemed, almost overight. There was a increasing mood about everyone.
Previouly, if you were a democrat or a republican, nobody cared, now all of a sudden it mattered. Prior to that the Dems ad Pubs ever had an openly hostile relationship it was almost good natured...almost.
I saw the little things, we as Cops were always on these details, Head of state arrivials, motorcades to and from the Whitehouse, we always helped with the security and we had a good relationship with the Secret Service, we knew each other by name etc. All of a sudden we got new SOP's from our Bosses via the USSS....We had to undergo renewed background checks and we got told to keep our distance. Gone were the Days when President Reagan would come up to you and shake your hand and thank you and maybe tell a corny joke or two. So now I had a Deputy Inspector asking me and my men about How we felt about the President WTF is that?
I cant even begin to tell you the negative image that the AG Janet Reno projected on all of us what with "WACO" and all.
I look around today and think back to the Weathermen, The SDS the black Panthers, the SYmbonese Liberation army ad I realize they are still with us, ad very scarey, some of them are serving in cogress, they are no longer hiding what they are.
Good point Billy. Looking back at the early days of Nam their was a unified voice to kick the Commies out of Nam, but by 1965 the left was howling that our boys were dying in a needless war, a war the left started.
Enter Walter Cronkite, a trusted Urinalist of the day, despite the fact we had essentially won the war, he declared our loss and in doing so, not only caused the deaths of thousands more Americans, prolonging the war by tying the hands of Congress by bringing attention to war and broadcasting it to American living rooms with his lying commentary.
Suddenly Congress was under pressure to bring the war to an end, that and the fact that LBJ was trying to micromanage the war the generals should have been fighting.
Nam changed the country and the left holds all the blame.
I think VietNam is an example of a war that, perhaps the media but I lay the blame at the feet of politicians, was not fought with an intention to win. How else can you explain winning all the battles but losing the War. I do not really accept that it was a loss, more of a war games conclusion that we decided not to play anymore. No proof but I will always believe that it was used as a testing ground to see hour our equipment fared against theirs how different tactics worked.
So I think that the media causing this war to end was not really a bad thing because I do not see where early on we were fighting to win and then backed off because of bad press. I do not agree that the left's actions against those who answered our countries call is right as it is really deplorable.
The news media at that time was biased as we have learned but by today's standards not at all. So much of the news today is commentary about opinion and feelings. During the campaign of trump and even ones before that, the adjectives they used to describe each side was predictable. The people who turned out for Trump were raucous, violent, and worse while the other side they were enthusiastic, educated adoring. If you hear one crowd listened to a speech sedately and the other one was full of enthusiasm who do you think seems to have that hearts and minds of most people in America.
Many people are sheep and will follow what they think the crowd is doing. You do not hear that trump filled the stadium two times over if you count the ones listening outside while the other side did not fill a small auditorium. Not an accident.
Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2019, 07:17:56 AM
Good point Billy. Looking back at the early days of Nam their was a unified voice to kick the Commies out of Nam, but by 1965 the left was howling that our boys were dying in a needless war, a war the left started.
Enter Walter Cronkite, a trusted Urinalist of the day, despite the fact we had essentially won the war, he declared our loss and in doing so, not only caused the deaths of thousands more Americans, prolonging the war by tying the hands of Congress by bringing attention to war and broadcasting it to American living rooms with his lying commentary.
Suddenly Congress was under pressure to bring the war to an end, that and the fact that LBJ was trying to micromanage the war the generals should have been fighting.
Nam changed the country and the left holds all the blame.
The best example of this propaganda disguised as news was the Tet Offesive. The papers, ad asshole Cronkite were saying it was a "defeat" for the Americans....Bullshit, the
Vietcong threw everything they had at us and they FAILED, the held a few cities like HUE for a few days and they attacked the US embassy. But it he end, they failed to hold their objectives and they lost more than 80 men by their own admission. After that the Vietcong were no longer a viable force. from then on in it was north Viet regulars and...some say to this day...Chinese Troops mixed among the nva
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on April 18, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
The best example of this propaganda disguised as news was the Tet Offesive. The papers, ad asshole Cronkite were saying it was a "defeat" for the Americans....Bullshit, the Vietcong threw everything they had at us and they FAILED, the held a few cities like HUE for a few days and they attacked the US embassy. But it he end, they failed to hold their objectives and they lost more than 80 men by their own admission. After that the Vietcong were no longer a viable force. from then on in it was north Viet regulars and...some say to this day...Chinese Troops mixed among the nva
My brother was shot during the Tet, and he concurred, there were Chinese troops involved.
It was because we were winning, the Marxists state side, needed to ramp up the protests to end the war. Hindsight being 20/20, it all fits like a puzzle.
Quote from: raptor5618 on April 18, 2019, 10:12:30 AM
I think VietNam is an example of a war that, perhaps the media but I lay the blame at the feet of politicians, was not fought with an intention to win. How else can you explain winning all the battles but losing the War. I do not really accept that it was a loss, more of a war games conclusion that we decided not to play anymore. No proof but I will always believe that it was used as a testing ground to see hour our equipment fared against theirs how different tactics worked.
So I think that the media causing this war to end was not really a bad thing because I do not see where early on we were fighting to win and then backed off because of bad press. I do not agree that the left's actions against those who answered our countries call is right as it is really deplorable.
The news media at that time was biased as we have learned but by today's standards not at all. So much of the news today is commentary about opinion and feelings. During the campaign of trump and even ones before that, the adjectives they used to describe each side was predictable. The people who turned out for Trump were raucous, violent, and worse while the other side they were enthusiastic, educated adoring. If you hear one crowd listened to a speech sedately and the other one was full of enthusiasm who do you think seems to have that hearts and minds of most people in America.
Many people are sheep and will follow what they think the crowd is doing. You do not hear that trump filled the stadium two times over if you count the ones listening outside while the other side did not fill a small auditorium. Not an accident.
Yep, that was the problem of the day, the media only told you what they wanted you to see and hear. Which, if used correctly can unite the country, instead, this was the turning point in the media becoming a tool for dividing the Nation.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on April 18, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
The best example of this propaganda disguised as news was the Tet Offesive. The papers, ad asshole Cronkite were saying it was a "defeat" for the Americans....Bullshit, the Vietcong threw everything they had at us and they FAILED, the held a few cities like HUE for a few days and they attacked the US embassy. But it he end, they failed to hold their objectives and they lost more than 80 thousand men by their own admission. After that the Vietcong were no longer a viable force. from then on in it was north Viet regulars and...some say to this day...Chinese Troops mixed among the nva
I meant to say 80
thousand VC casualties