Question For Bush Supporters

Started by Biff_Poindexter, July 17, 2018, 05:41:15 AM

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Billy's bayonet

Quote from: Biff_Poindexter on July 17, 2018, 07:17:59 AM
Bush was considered a businessman too -- a globalist one -- just like Trump is -- globalism is only bad if the person you are calling a globalist is someone we already don't like.

Again my point is -- if we are so quick to shut up and silence our opposition just because he is "our leader" -- we will guarantee ourselves that we will get another "bush" or variation thereof in the future.


Bush was also a Politician, he was Gov of TExas and a controversial one too.

There seems to me to be NOTHING BUT opposition to Trump and the opposition gets ramped up everytime he does something halfway good for the country....that really disturbs me, that should disturb you too regardless of where you stand on the politcal spectrum.
Evil operates best when under a disguise

WHEN A CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED THE WORLD IS UNBALANCED

WHEN A WRONG IS UNAVENGED THE HEAVENS LOOK DOWN ON US IN SHAME

IMPEACH BIDEN

Solar

Quote from: Biff_Poindexter on July 17, 2018, 09:20:04 AM
its only government interference when you don't agree with what government is doing -- lets not pretend that we want NO government involvement in anything. We definitely do when it comes to implementing Christian conservative values.

Ohh Jeez, what part of simply following the Constitution, do you not get?
The values you speak of, are not necessarily "Christian", but tried and proven values of a successful society handed down over millennia, our Founders simply put them down in writing and explicitly created a limited Republican form of govt along with a Bill of Rights.
Read the First Amendment!  And while you're at it, tell me where the Bill of Rights gets its power.

Quoteand I agree, when Trump appointed himself the figurehead of the birther movement..he tapped into the anger of the Birther movement, he was smart in riding that anger all the way to the white house -- and he needs to continue to tap that anger -- there is plenty to be upset about -- and no one should be made to feel ashamed of being part of that birther movement -- and to Trump's credit, he never alienated those people.
Like Billy pointed out not being a Trump supporter, 99% of the people on thhis forum did not support Trump, we all supported Cruz, so to be honest, I never even knew Trump was part of the Birther movement, I followed Joe Arpaio on his investigation of the fraudulent document.

QuoteHe is also smart to align himself with Putin because no other government is doing more to support ethno-nationalist politicians who would put the rights of their own European citizens first instead of the rights of cultural infiltrators and illegals.

I think that had much to do with why libs were bailing on the Dims, no one supports illegal activity, especially when everyone knows someone that lost a job to an illegal, or they, themselves.

Quotebut your earlier claims of the GOP base being against the patriot Act is not substantiated -- since the PA passed with not one single republican voting against it.
Again, don't conflate the base with the party, the base despises the GOP and is still Hell bent on stealing the party, that will never end until it's ours.
Remember, they also bailed our Wall St which was quite possibly the final straw.


QuoteAlso, your earlier claims of how most conservatives was against the way the Iraq war was conducted -- that also is not substantiated by the facts -- as for just voting to authorize the president to go to war in Iraq -- I will give anyone who voted that a pass since we were so expertly fear-mongered into that position -- but even for that, only 6 republicans in the house voted against it, in comparison to 126 democrats who voted against it, but they are against America anyway, so who cares. In the Senate, only one republican voted against it, 21 democrats voted against it.
Yeah, that was from a flawed memory apparently, where I thought I remembered the only Dim to go against it was Sheila Jackson Lee, and that's possibly due to media giving her a soap box where she claimed to be the single dissenting voice..

QuoteThat level of obedience to Bush is what set the tone for all of the other bush proposals that lost conservatives the White House for 8 years. To try to revise that history to make yourself feel better is how you end up repeating it.

Yes, we did lose the WH, but you can blame the GOP for that, they ran another RINO, and apparently being a Mormon played a part according to much of what I read at the time.
But just like McStain, the GOP was notorious for shitting on the base and running total losers that didn't give a shit about the Constitution.
This is more of that back and forth game the party's play for power, where the people get sick of one party and support the other next time around.
One other point, the Marxists learned long ago, the tool of division, the problem is, the GOP let them get away with it because it drove the base to their side and the back and forth continued unabated for decades.
The left lost, and so is the GOP which is why you're seeing an exodus of RINO claiming they want to be with their families now.
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Walter Josh

It appears another urinary contest is in its early stages. Hmm.......
Anyway, a reflection and  perspective gleaned from by history.
The GOP has never been a conservative party. Not for a day!
Our only principled conservative party was the Southern Agrarian &
Rural Democrats of Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Rutledge; among
many dozens, concentrated in Virginia and the Carolinas.
Sadly it was fatally tarred by slavery and faded from existence.
The GOP emerged thru the northern mercantile class in 1856
and post Civil War was politically ascendant over the next 70 years,
dominating the Presidency, the Congress and appointing the vast
majority of SC Justices, during the period from Lincoln to Hoover.
The Party represented:
* protectionism never free trade, enacting more than 100 duties,
excises and tariffs, including Smoot-Hawley on the eve of the Great
Depression.The defense/excuse offered by assorted GOP assholery
was that they were "protecting our infant industries".
* centralized government and rejected states rights.
* activist reform thru the creation of the regulatory apparatus that
engulfs us at this very  moment; most notably by POTUS TR.
* support for the 16th Amendment and enactment of the Income Tax.
Anyone desiring real change will never get it from the GOP, which is
nothing more than a constipated mummy. Change will only come
when the GOP is buried and replaced.

Solar

Quote from: Walter Josh on July 17, 2018, 11:56:15 AM
It appears another urinary contest is in its early stages. Hmm.......
Anyway, a reflection and  perspective gleaned from by history.
The GOP has never been a conservative party. Not for a day!
Our only principled conservative party was the Southern Agrarian &
Rural Democrats of Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Rutledge; among
many dozens, concentrated in Virginia and the Carolinas.
Sadly it was fatally tarred by slavery and faded from existence.
The GOP emerged thru the northern mercantile class in 1856
and post Civil War was politically ascendant over the next 70 years,
dominating the Presidency, the Congress and appointing the vast
majority of SC Justices, during the period from Lincoln to Hoover.
The Party represented:
* protectionism never free trade, enacting more than 100 duties,
excises and tariffs, including Smoot-Hawley on the eve of the Great
Depression.The defense/excuse offered by assorted GOP assholery
was that they were "protecting our infant industries".
* centralized government and rejected states rights.
* activist reform thru the creation of the regulatory apparatus that
engulfs us at this very  moment; most notably by POTUS TR.
* support for the 16th Amendment and enactment of the Income Tax.
Anyone desiring real change will never get it from the GOP, which is
nothing more than a constipated mummy. Change will only come
when the GOP is buried and replaced.
Or stolen, because replacing it merely divides the base and the monied interests always win.
No, you have to force the scum out, in turn, killing off their monied support. There is no easy answer, there is no guarantee we can keep it, but that's for future generations to figure out.
Just like our Founders gave us a "Republic, if we can keep it", it is our responsibility to give the next generations a fighting chance, by stealing the GOP away from the elites controlling the Nation. Elites that control both the party's and play them against us.
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T Hunt

Quote from: Biff_Poindexter on July 17, 2018, 07:09:51 AM
we called people traitors for simply opposing Bush's Iraq war policy -- when any sane person should have been opposing the Iraq war policy..

Why wld a sane person not support stopping a dictator with WMDs? And dont tell me he didnt have any because he used them on the kurds. The people in general were very happy we tok saddam out. So we were entirely justified in going in. However the rebuilding was very half assed, the establishment wouldnt commit and kept pussy footing around, just like vietnam, which is why it was such a disaster. Then came the surge, and that won the war, iraq was a success. That is until obummer came along and fucked it all to hell.
"Let's Go Brandon, I agree!"  -Biden

AndyJackson

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 17, 2018, 09:31:18 AM
Clinton did not cut short GHW, GHW did it by rejecting the Reagan coattails he rode in on.
Absolutely.  GWHB proved many times that he was NOT aligned with Reagan or his principles.

In hindsight, it's been alleged that the RINO / deepstate players of that day pushed him on Reagan, to keep their own guy on the inside.  I've read that they traded support for Reagan's campaign, for him picking Bush.

Much the way several shady members of Trump's cabinet and staff were insinuated on him by the deepstate / RINO's of today.

Always there, always worming around.

Although ....... it did dovetail very sadly with the Perot effect, which screwed the GOP vote completely.  Even with the shittiness of GWHB, he may still have won without Perot in the mix.

AndyJackson

Quote from: Biff_Poindexter on July 17, 2018, 09:26:52 AM
If that is something to give a president credit for -- that is very low bar

Do you give Clinton credit for cutting short a George HW presidency?

I tend to base the success of a president on larger things than being happy the other side didn't win -- hell, if that is the case -- we should be happy Obama was the first to beat Hillary before Trump did.
If you can't see the immense value and importance of avoiding a Gore, Kerry, or Hillary Clinton presidency, then you've been bullshitting us as a fake conservative this whole time.

These are the worst possible people on the earth to have ever given control of America to.

Bill Clinton is just a piker in his communist / anti-America beliefs.  Obama is as anti-America as anybody, but luckily in their zeal to create him, they didn't notice that he was incredibly incompetent and ineffectual.  They thought he was a genius world changer, turns out he was an idiot savant without the ability to actually do anything but EO's and stupid comments.

Hillary, Gore, and Clinton - evil, and with the hate, experience, and connections to do real harm.

So yeah, wake the fuck up, buddy.  Stop waxing stupidly.

AndyJackson

And why the hell wouldn't you be extremely happy that Obama took out Hillary for 8 years ?  Yeah, I despise the guy, but Hillary would have been worse than him.

She may have succeeded in realizing the 16-year-plan, with her level of corruption and criminal network.

It's dumb luck that Obama's sheer foolishness and ineptness, and Hillary's total disintegration mentally and physically, played out as they did.  But I thank God for it every day.

Solar

Quote from: mrclose on July 17, 2018, 05:53:55 PM
THAT was a great post Solar and deserves to be read again! :thumbsup:

(paypal accepted) :lol:
All I've gott is Bitcoin, I don't do Paypal. Though they really aren't in circulation yet, I figured, what the Hell, everyone else in getting into Fiat currency, why can't I print my own? :biggrin:
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Walter Josh

Quote from: T Hunt on July 17, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Why wld a sane person not support stopping a dictator with WMDs? And dont tell me he didnt have any because he used them on the kurds. The people in general were very happy we tok saddam out. So we were entirely justified in going in. However the rebuilding was very half assed, the establishment wouldnt commit and kept pussy footing around, just like vietnam, which is why it was such a disaster. Then came the surge, and that won the war, iraq was a success. That is until obummer came along and fucked it all to hell.
-------------------------------------
So we won the war and Iraq was a success??????????
JESUS, MARY & JOSEPH; will you please get real!!!!!!!
The Arab told us that " the enemy of my enemy  is my friend" yet buffoon Bush
was oblivious and the results are plain to see except for the deaf, dumb and blind.
Iraq (Mesopotamia) was Iran's (Persia) age old enemy,  pre-dating  Alexander.
In 1980, they commenced a 9 year conflict over long standing territorial issues
which ended in stalemate and further impoverished both, despite their oil resources.
Yet the advantage remained w/Iraq because of its location at the head of the
Persian Gulf and threatened Iran's oil shipping lanes.
Bush's reckless adventure changed that dynamic, allowing Iran free reign to
pursue its revolutionary impulses and we continue to pay for the consequences
of that disastrous decision to this very day!!!
The weapons of mass destruction malarkey was bullshit cubed, conjured up by
our govt intelligentsia in support of Bush's impulse for war. Hussein had neither
the technical capabilities nor the financial resources to produce nuclear, biological
or nerve agents. 
As for the chlorine/fluorine gas argument, they were used by the Germans in
1915 at Ypres, Belgium to drive the British from their trenches, as it was an
severe irritant, not a killing gas. In fact, chlorine is regularly used by law
enforcement to disperse dangerously large mobs and is certainly not a WMD!!!
Label our Iraq venture, along w/the decision to enter WW1, as monumental
fiascoes predictable from assholes at birth, such as Bush and Wilson.



supsalemgr

Quote from: AndyJackson on July 17, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
Absolutely.  GWHB proved many times that he was NOT aligned with Reagan or his principles.

In hindsight, it's been alleged that the RINO / deepstate players of that day pushed him on Reagan, to keep their own guy on the inside.  I've read that they traded support for Reagan's campaign, for him picking Bush.

Much the way several shady members of Trump's cabinet and staff were insinuated on him by the deepstate / RINO's of today.

Always there, always worming around.

Although ....... it did dovetail very sadly with the Perot effect, which screwed the GOP vote completely.  Even with the shittiness of GWHB, he may still have won without Perot in the mix.

Perot was a side show. However,  GHWB made him relevant by abandoning many of the folks who voted for him in 1988. They voted for Perot in protest.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Biff_Poindexter

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2018, 11:49:58 AM

Like Billy pointed out not being a Trump supporter, 99% of the people on thhis forum did not support Trump, we all supported Cruz, so to be honest, I never even knew Trump was part of the Birther movement, I followed Joe Arpaio on his investigation of the fraudulent document.

You just lost the debate with this bit of revisionist history -- To pretend to not know that Trump was part of the birther movement -- yet be an informed conservative is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty.

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2018, 11:49:58 AM
Again, don't conflate the base with the party, the base despises the GOP and is still Hell bent on stealing the party, that will never end until it's ours.
Remember, they also bailed our Wall St which was quite possibly the final straw

What has the GOP done to show Wall St they can no longer buy our politicians or have their lobbyists write our financial regulations? ZERO

I have already made peace with the fact that Wall St will always own our politicians, so as long as they continue to cut taxes, cut entitlement spending and roll back Civil Rights legislation, I am fine.


Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2018, 11:49:58 AM
Yes, we did lose the WH, but you can blame the GOP for that, they ran another RINO, and apparently being a Mormon played a part according to much of what I read at the time.
But just like McStain, the GOP was notorious for shitting on the base and running total losers that didn't give a shit about the Constitution.
Quick question, who did you support in the 2008 & 2012 republican primary? And would you be caught dead pushing for any of them to be president if we didn't have Trump?

There is a reason we keep having bad candidates, because we as a base will always keep supporting whoever they tell us to -- we went all in for whatever candidate they put up like they were the greatest thing since sliced bread -- only to look silly later when we went on about how they weren't true conservatives...

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2018, 11:49:58 AM
The left lost, and so is the GOP which is why you're seeing an exodus of RINO claiming they want to be with their families now.

Those RINOS you are talking about all had 95% or above voting records by so called conservative watchdog groups -- the reason most of them are exiting is more about style than policy, since the majority of Trump's policies are run of the mill GOP policies. I am glad those people are retiring,  because they refuse to go all in for Trump and we need to have politicians who will stand by Trump no matter what.

Biff_Poindexter

Quote from: T Hunt on July 17, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Why wld a sane person not support stopping a dictator with WMDs? And dont tell me he didnt have any because he used them on the kurds. The people in general were very happy we tok saddam out. So we were entirely justified in going in. However the rebuilding was very half assed, the establishment wouldnt commit and kept pussy footing around, just like vietnam, which is why it was such a disaster. Then came the surge, and that won the war, iraq was a success. That is until obummer came along and fucked it all to hell.

What part of Iraq War policy do you not understand? I never said anything about not going into Iraq -- but Trump did...does that bother you? No..because Trump said it..

You don't get respect for being a sycophant -- you cant simultaneously try to defend the Iraq War while looking the other way when Trump blatantly tells you how stupid Bush was for going to Iraq

Solar

Quote from: Biff_Poindexter on July 18, 2018, 07:15:00 AM
You just lost the debate with this bit of revisionist history -- To pretend to not know that Trump was part of the birther movement -- yet be an informed conservative is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty.

So now you've resorted to calling me a liar? I don't watch TV, I had no interest in Trump, never watched his speeches because in mind he was still a NY Dem who just joined the GOP to run for office. I saw him as a fraud, so I paid no attention to a single thing he had to say because I saw him as a carpetbagging liar out to split the party and give Hillary the win.
Yes, I was dead wrong, and by God, I'm glad I was, and that he won, and no, I did not vote for him, I wrote in Cruz.
So screw you and the sheep you rode in on.

QuoteWhat has the GOP done to show Wall St they can no longer buy our politicians or have their lobbyists write our financial regulations? ZERO

I have already made peace with the fact that Wall St will always own our politicians, so as long as they continue to cut taxes, cut entitlement spending and roll back Civil Rights legislation, I am fine.
Which has zero to do with what I just stated!

QuoteQuick question, who did you support in the 2008 & 2012 republican primary? And would you be caught dead pushing for any of them to be president if we didn't have Trump?

There is a reason we keep having bad candidates, because we as a base will always keep supporting whoever they tell us to -- we went all in for whatever candidate they put up like they were the greatest thing since sliced bread -- only to look silly later when we went on about how they weren't true conservatives...

Jeez, you have a serious comprehension issue. I just stated why the GOP keeps losing elections. Wake up!

QuoteThose RINOS you are talking about all had 95% or above voting records by so called conservative watchdog groups -- the reason most of them are exiting is more about style than policy, since the majority of Trump's policies are run of the mill GOP policies. I am glad those people are retiring,  because they refuse to go all in for Trump and we need to have politicians who will stand by Trump no matter what.
I'd love to see these so-called ""conservative watchdog groups" you speak of. Because to my knowledge,, there are but two credible ones.
One being:    https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/ And the other:
http://acuratings.conservative.org/acu-federal-legislative-ratings/?year1=2017&chamber=13&state1=57&sortable=1
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Biff_Poindexter

Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
So now you've resorted to calling me a liar? I don't watch TV, I had no interest in Trump, never watched his speeches because in mind he was still a NY Dem who just joined the GOP to run for office.

Yes, I am calling you either dishonest or woefully ignorant -- if you expect me to believe that you didn't know Trump was the face of the birther movement until he joined the GOP -- because he joined the GOP long before he was part of the birther movement, he won over most of his early supporters due to his involvement in the birther movement  -- but somehow you were informed about Arpaio's birther activities??

Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
Jeez, you have a serious comprehension issue. I just stated why the GOP keeps losing elections. Wake up!
No, you stated why you THINK the GOP kept losing-- and I have told you that the true reason why they had been losing -- it wasn't over policy -- it was over style.

The base wants a candidate who isn't politically correct, who doesn't just blow a dog whistle, but blows a dog trumpet -- we want to be told the things by our candidate that we tell each other candidly around the water cooler -- Trump does that -- but his policies are mostly the same policies that the base have been supporting for decades.

You also claimed that the base was fed up with how the GOP bailed out Wall Street -- so I asked you what have the GOP done to crack down on Wall St? ZERO -- and you don't hear a peep out of the base about it because no one told them to care about it, not even Trump.

Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
I'd love to see these so-called ""conservative watchdog groups" you speak of. Because to my knowledge,, there are but two credible ones.
One being:    https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/ And the other:
http://acuratings.conservative.org/acu-federal-legislative-ratings/?year1=2017&chamber=13&state1=57&sortable=1

Here is the conservative review scorecard results -- I will include the scores of your boy crush, Ted Cruz and compare it to those of RINO like Jeff Flake and prove my point:


Senator Ted Cruz (TX) - 90%


Rep Matt Gaetz (FL) - 79%

Now, I found this guy's score interesting since I often hear people cheer him as a strong conservative ...Guess he is just a strong conservative in style only.

Rep Trey Gowdy (SC) 69%

Not Trey Gowdy? say it aint so -- maybe he just has the "Style" of a strong conservative because he participates in dog and pony investigations

Now you may consider this funny, Jeff Flake (Satan himself) lifetime score is 93%, his most recent score is 60% however, not because of his voting record but because he is not all in for Trump no matter what.

Which is basically my point, its not about the policies because the base will support virtually any policy Trump tells them to support -- it is about the style -- if you stay tapped into their anger and keep feeding it -- your base will support anything you put in front of them.

https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/