You mean when Obozo illegally wiretapped Trump based on a fraudulent dossier, that meeting?

No, that was the day (27 July 2016) Trump publicly asked Russia on national TV to help with finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails.  Is that not collusion? 

The intelligence chatter turned up after that public request. 

I'm guessing ABC News is not to be trusted, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb2S4DIcNc

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
You mean when Obozo illegally wiretapped Trump based on a fraudulent dossier, that meeting?

No, that was the day (27 July 2016) Trump publicly asked Russia on national TV to help with finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails.  Is that not collusion? 

The intelligence chatter turned up after that public request. 

I'm guessing ABC News is not to be trusted, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb2S4DIcNc

IF Russia hacked hillaries server, don't you think they have the emails?

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
You mean when Obozo illegally wiretapped Trump based on a fraudulent dossier, that meeting?

No, that was the day (27 July 2016) Trump publicly asked Russia on national TV to help with finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails.  Is that not collusion? 

The intelligence chatter turned up after that public request. 

I'm guessing ABC News is not to be trusted, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb2S4DIcNc

No, that is not collusion, collusion s done in secret.

IF Russia hacked hillaries server, don't you think they have the emails?

I don't know.  If they have them, they haven't released them; if they don't have them, there's nothing to release.  (I'll read the Wiki page on this.  I'm tired of  trying to stay on top of the news.  It didn't used to be that way.)

My previous post dealt with collusion and I provided an example that for me fits the definition.  With Nixon his questionable behavior was extremely discreet, whispering in someone's ears, not shouting on national TV.  By making this behavior so in your face, it's easy to dismiss it simply as bombast.  If Trump had requested Russia help him in an e-mail or during a private phone call, that would be defined as collusion.  By making it so public we simply ignore it though it has the same exact effect (as far as an investigation is concerned).   I predict that Trump will be brought down by his own words ... spoken in public.

At any rate, the next few months will be revealing, entertaining, and most certainly, tiring.

I'm going on vacation in a few days and will enjoy British beer.  I don't plan on responding to every post directed to me ... this consumes too much time.  :)

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
You mean when Obozo illegally wiretapped Trump based on a fraudulent dossier, that meeting?

No, that was the day (27 July 2016) Trump publicly asked Russia on national TV to help with finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails.  Is that not collusion? 

The intelligence chatter turned up after that public request. 

I'm guessing ABC News is not to be trusted, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb2S4DIcNc

There's no way to take you seriously with the "asked for Russia's help".  It was just an offhand comment by one guy, in a debate, poking fun at his foe, getting under her skin, and the moderator, and the dems.

If you're trying to claim that the guy was secretly, magically giving Russia their marching orders during a US presidential debate on television, you're just ridiculous.  Have some dignity, please.  Sick of these stories that a 5-year-old would be embarrassed to tell.

If that's not what you're saying, then stop saying it already.  Give us a break, the non-stop nonsense is pretty damned annoying.

Quote from: AndyJackson on July 19, 2018, 02:35:09 PM
There's no way to take you seriously with the "asked for Russia's help".  It was just an offhand comment by one guy, in a debate, poking fun at his foe, getting under her skin, and the moderator, and the dems.

If you're trying to claim that the guy was secretly, magically giving Russia their marching orders during a US presidential debate on television, you're just ridiculous.  Have some dignity, please.  Sick of these stories that a 5-year-old would be embarrassed to tell.

If that's not what you're saying, then stop saying it already.  Give us a break, the non-stop nonsense is pretty damned annoying.

I repost what I wrote ....

If Trump had requested Russia help him in an e-mail or during a private phone call, that would be defined as collusion.  By making it so public we simply ignore it though it has the same exact effect (as far as an investigation is concerned). 

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree.  He asked a foreign government to help him, pure and simple ... unprecedented.   Can you provide any other candidate posing a similar request?  I can't.

One more thing, I go out of my way to be dispassionate, I don't deal in ad hominum attacks.  If what I wrote is nonsense, the request by Trump seemed to be perceived by countless others as a questionable request at the very least; others found it for what it literally was, asking a foreign government to help sway an election.

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 02:57:20 PM
I repost what I wrote ....

If Trump had requested Russia help him in an e-mail or during a private phone call, that would be defined as collusion.  By making it so public we simply ignore it though it has the same exact effect (as far as an investigation is concerned). 

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree.  He asked a foreign government to help him, pure and simple ... unprecedented.   Can you provide any other candidate posing a similar request?  I can't.

One more thing, I go out of my way to be dispassionate, I don't deal in ad hominum attacks.  If what I wrote is nonsense, the request by Trump seemed to be perceived by countless others as a questionable request at the very least; others found it for what it literally was, asking a foreign government to help sway an election.

I say again, nobody in their right mind thinks a silly 2-second jab in a debate is a request for international crimes, secretly coded to his partners in crime.

I mean damn, listen to yourself.  Just ..... don't ..... say .....dumb ...... stuff ..... and pretend that it's brilliantly logical.  It annoys rational / reasonable / responsible people.

Do you even care at this point ?

Remember that saying about pissing on my back and telling me it's raining ? It's quaint and ancient .... but it really means something.  It means "have a modicum of dignity in what you say and claim, don't go full retard and pretend you're waxing eloquently".

And quit crying about the ad-homs.  I don't know a damn thing about you.  Any insults I offer are for your grating, aggravating nonsense.

Last item - people come on here all the time pretending to be conservatives who magically just discovered that they hate Reagan, Trump, Cruz, Kavanaugh, etc.

You fit the mold.

Quote from: AndyJackson on July 19, 2018, 03:26:02 PM
I say again, nobody in their right mind thinks a silly 2-second jab in a debate is a request for international crimes, secretly coded to his partners in crime.

I mean damn, listen to yourself.  Just ..... don't ..... say .....dumb ...... stuff ..... and pretend that it's brilliantly logical.  It annoys rational / reasonable / responsible people.

Do you even care at this point ?

Remember that saying about pissing on my back and telling me it's raining ? It's quaint and ancient .... but it really means something.  It means "have a modicum of dignity in what you say and claim, don't go full retard and pretend you're waxing eloquently".

And quit crying about the ad-homs.  I don't know a damn thing about you.  Any insults I offer are for your grating, aggravating nonsense.

Last item - people come on here all the time pretending to be conservatives who magically just discovered that they hate Reagan, Trump, Cruz, Kavanaugh, etc.

You fit the mold.

I'm not crying about the personal attacks, I don't see the need to lower myself.  It's been my experience that ad hominum attacks appear when arguments are weak.

John Kasich?  Where does he fit on your personal list of accepted politicians?  I'd vote for him.  He can even speak complete paragraphs and discuss policy intelligently.  He's pretty consistent and doesn't take every conceivable position on any topic.  He's led a pretty moral and scandal free life.

One more thing, the 'two seconds' you mentioned regarding Trump's off the cuff request to a foreign government was actually 12 seconds long ... and it really didn't seem lighthearted at all, it seemed sincere.  I guess any candidate you support is faultless. 

Ah yes, shilling for Kasich.  A classic conservative belief, lol.

You've blown your cover.  Start over on another website, less obvious this time.

Come on, throw in Portman too.  Maybe a little McCain and Flake.

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 03:51:09 PM
I'm not crying about the personal attacks, I don't see the need to lower myself.  It's been my experience that ad hominum attacks appear when arguments are weak.

John Kasich?  Where does he fit on your personal list of accepted politicians?  I'd vote for him.  He can even speak complete paragraphs and discuss policy intelligently.  He's pretty consistent and doesn't take every conceivable position on any topic.  He's led a pretty moral and scandal free life.

One more thing, the 'two seconds' you mentioned regarding Trump's off the cuff request to a foreign government was actually 12 seconds long ... and it really didn't seem lighthearted at all, it seemed sincere.  I guess any candidate you support is faultless.

I respect Jasich, he seems like a good honest guy, but his values are off when one compares them to the Constitution.

He's from Bergen, New Jersey? That's a deal breaker.

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
You mean when Obozo illegally wiretapped Trump based on a fraudulent dossier, that meeting?

No, that was the day (27 July 2016) Trump publicly asked Russia on national TV to help with finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails.  Is that not collusion? 

The intelligence chatter turned up after that public request. 

I'm guessing ABC News is not to be trusted, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb2S4DIcNc

You have no clue what you are talking about dave, Asking a Country that may (not 100% sure) that hacked and stole Emails and technicaly US IT Property to find them and return them is anything but collusion.

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 19, 2018, 03:51:09 PM
I'm not crying about the personal attacks, I don't see the need to lower myself.  It's been my experience that ad hominum attacks appear when arguments are weak.

John Kasich?  Where does he fit on your personal list of accepted politicians?  I'd vote for him.  He can even speak complete paragraphs and discuss policy intelligently.  He's pretty consistent and doesn't take every conceivable position on any topic.  He's led a pretty moral and scandal free life.

One more thing, the 'two seconds' you mentioned regarding Trump's off the cuff request to a foreign government was actually 12 seconds long ... and it really didn't seem lighthearted at all, it seemed sincere.  I guess any candidate you support is faultless.

Realize this. If kasich had been elected the left wld be just as crazy, just as violent, and just as vicious as they are being to trump. It doesnt matter who is in office, if he is gop then the left goes full libtard

Quote from: T Hunt on July 19, 2018, 11:22:57 PM
Realize this. If kasich had been elected the left wld be just as crazy, just as violent, and just as vicious as they are being to trump. It doesnt matter who is in office, if he is gop then the left goes full libtard

Kasich speaks like an intelligent person.  Kasich doesn't change his position on any topic within weeks, days, or hours.  Kasich probably doesn't have any loans from foreign banks that could influence his decision making.

If Kasich were President I'd bet there wouldn't be such a high turnover of staff.  If Kasich were President he'd bring notes to a summit and spend some time studying. 

Quote from: Dave, Retired US Army on July 20, 2018, 03:09:52 AM
Kasich speaks like an intelligent person.  Kasich doesn't change his position on any topic within weeks, days, or hours.  Kasich probably doesn't have any loans from foreign banks that could influence his decision making.

If Kasich were President I'd bet there wouldn't be such a high turnover of staff.  If Kasich were President he'd bring notes to a summit and spend some time studying.

Seeing how kasich is reduced to someone who's opinion does not matter, and Trump is now called President Trump, I would have to say not too many agree with you.

                               MAGA!!