Yes, this is good all the way around.
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia king to step down and hand over the crown to his 32-year-old son after prince rounded up Saudi royals in corruption arrests and had them sleep on bare mattresses in a luxury hotel
King Salman of Saudi Arabia is planning to step down next week and name his son Prince Mohammed bin Salman as his successor, a source told DailyMail.com
They added: 'King Salman will play the role of the queen of England. He will only keep the title "Custodian of the Holy Shrines"
Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 32, ordered the arrests of more than 40 princes and government ministers in a corruption probe in early November
The Saudi royals were photographed sleeping on bare mattresses on the floor of the luxury Ritz Carlton hotel
Once crowned king, the prince will shift his focus to Iran, a long standing rival oil empire to Saudi Arabia in the Middle East, the source sai.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5089229/Saudi-Arabia-king-set-hand-crown-son.html
Quote from: Solar on November 16, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
Yes, this is good all the way around.
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia king to step down and hand over the crown to his 32-year-old son after prince rounded up Saudi royals in corruption arrests and had them sleep on bare mattresses in a luxury hotel
King Salman of Saudi Arabia is planning to step down next week and name his son Prince Mohammed bin Salman as his successor, a source told DailyMail.com
They added: 'King Salman will play the role of the queen of England. He will only keep the title "Custodian of the Holy Shrines"
Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 32, ordered the arrests of more than 40 princes and government ministers in a corruption probe in early November
The Saudi royals were photographed sleeping on bare mattresses on the floor of the luxury Ritz Carlton hotel
Once crowned king, the prince will shift his focus to Iran, a long standing rival oil empire to Saudi Arabia in the Middle East, the source sai.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5089229/Saudi-Arabia-king-set-hand-crown-son.html
I hope he has a lot of trusted bodyguards 24/7. As he has pissed off a lot of unhappy people.
Quote from: walkstall on November 16, 2017, 05:26:08 PM
I hope he has a lot of trusted bodyguards 24/7. As he has pissed off a lot of unhappy people.
Yep, and most likely those loyal bodyguards to the King will be his as well.
These are interesting times we live in, and we are living history. Remember these days my friend.
I didn't appreciate the Reagan years as much as I should have because he was simply doing what was normal, but we see how the gop'
E screwed that all up and the country as well.
But this Prince is putting an end to the Wahabi and their religious police, stoning women to death in the streets etc.
May even be the beginning of the end of M/E terrorists.
I read today that Israel is now willing to share intel with Saudi Arabia regarding Iran.
Quote from: Solar on November 16, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
Yep, and most likely those loyal bodyguards to the King will be his as well.
These are interesting times we live in, and we are living history. Remember these days my friend.
I didn't appreciate the Reagan years as much as I should have because he was simply doing what was normal, but we see how the gop'
E screwed that all up and the country as well.
But this Prince is putting an end to the Wahabi and their religious police, stoning women to death in the streets etc.
May even be the beginning of the end of M/E terrorists.
A point well made and understated. This has the potential to be a history changer. If SA and Israel form a coalition and then Egypt joins in it changes the whole picture in the ME. Iran becomes the odd Muslim out.
The Coup is complete. The Wahabbi's have been put on notice.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on November 16, 2017, 09:08:31 PM
I read today that Israel is now willing to share intel with Saudi Arabia regarding Iran.
Speaks volumes, doesn't it?
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 17, 2017, 04:08:25 AM
A point well made and understated. This has the potential to be a history changer. If SA and Israel form a coalition and then Egypt joins in it changes the whole picture in the ME. Iran becomes the odd Muslim out.
We may actually see M/E peace in our lifetime.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on November 17, 2017, 05:55:27 AM
The Coup is complete. The Wahabbi's have been put on notice.
This was the cherry on top for me. It was the Wahabi that personally created all the fanatics that come from this so called religion.
I'd love to see the Prince start locking the Clerics up for crimes against humanity.
Quote from: Solar on November 16, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
Yes, this is good all the way around.
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia king to step down and hand over the crown to his 32-year-old son after prince rounded up Saudi royals in corruption arrests and had them sleep on bare mattresses in a luxury hotel
King Salman of Saudi Arabia is planning to step down next week and name his son Prince Mohammed bin Salman as his successor, a source told DailyMail.com
They added: 'King Salman will play the role of the queen of England. He will only keep the title "Custodian of the Holy Shrines"
Prince Mohammed bin Salman, 32, ordered the arrests of more than 40 princes and government ministers in a corruption probe in early November
The Saudi royals were photographed sleeping on bare mattresses on the floor of the luxury Ritz Carlton hotel
Once crowned king, the prince will shift his focus to Iran, a long standing rival oil empire to Saudi Arabia in the Middle East, the source sai.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5089229/Saudi-Arabia-king-set-hand-crown-son.html
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On the mark and insightful reflections from Solar.
Indeed Wahhabism is a puritanical and reactionary cult; masquerading as enlightened religion.
As such, it was the catalyst for virtually all the fanaticism (Hezbollah, Hamas, Isis and many others) that have swept the Middle East over the past century. In that, it shares kinship w/ the intolerance of Socialism.
A timeless Arabic expression advises that " The enemy of my enemy, is my friend."
If only western leaders, often from the USA, had understood and internalized that notion;
the Middle East would likely be far better off today and a friend rather than an enemy of the West.
* Reza Phalevi and his Son, both Shahs of Iran, were schooled in Britain w/the Classical Liberal Ideas of Gladstone and Palmerston, among others; and they brought these back to Tehran. Their frenzied enemy was the Mullahs who saw them as mortal threats to their power. Then, unwilling to contemplate change or turmoil, the British Foreign Office forced the Father to abdicate in 1941. Years later the Son ascended the Throne and the scenario was repeated by Jimbo Carter, one our ranking buffoons.
Consider a moment, what Iran is now and what it might have been.
* In 1980-88 Iraq and Iran went to war and while ending in stalemate, it caused far more severe damage to Iran in terms of casualties and destruction to its oil infrastructure. Then in 2003 Bush the Humanitarian, went to war w/Iraq over weapons of mass destruction, removing Sadaam Husein and crushing the Iraqi.
Consider the consequences a moment as Iraq is now a cauldron and Iran is developing Nuclear weaponry.
*In 1919 Mustapha Kemal, Hero of Gallipoli, became ruler permanently exiling the Ottomans and imposing total separation of religious and secular authorities in Turkey; giving the people freedom they had never experienced. He was adulated till the day of his death. Then the humanitarian types led by the UN agitated continually for the restoration of the old ways which has now borne fruit w/the rule of Erdogan. This would never have happened were it not for the role of our State Dept in pushing for such change.
* Now Moh'd bin Salman, is about to walk on stage. Wish him God speed as the direct ancestor of King Faisal who drove the Ottomans from the Arabian Peninsula in 1917.
Quote from: Walter Josh on November 17, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the mark and insightful reflections from Solar.
Indeed Wahhabism is a puritanical and reactionary cult; masquerading as enlightened religion.
As such, it was the catalyst for virtually all the fanaticism (Hezbollah, Hamas, Isis and many others) that have swept the Middle East over the past century. In that, it shares kinship w/ the intolerance of Socialism.
A timeless Arabic expression advises that " The enemy of my enemy, is my friend."
If only western leaders, often from the USA, had understood and internalized that notion;
the Middle East would likely be far better off today and a friend rather than an enemy of the West.
* Reza Phalevi and his Son, both Shahs of Iran, were schooled in Britain w/the Classical Liberal Ideas of Gladstone and Palmerston, among others; and they brought these back to Tehran. Their frenzied enemy was the Mullahs who saw them as mortal threats to their power. Then, unwilling to contemplate change or turmoil, the British Foreign Office forced the Father to abdicate in 1941. Years later the Son ascended the Throne and the scenario was repeated by Jimbo Carter, one our ranking buffoons.
Consider a moment, what Iran is now and what it might have been.
* In 1980-88 Iraq and Iran went to war and while ending in stalemate, it caused far more severe damage to Iran in terms of casualties and destruction to its oil infrastructure. Then in 2003 Bush the Humanitarian, went to war w/Iraq over weapons of mass destruction, removing Sadaam Husein and crushing the Iraqi.
Consider the consequences a moment as Iraq is now a cauldron and Iran is developing Nuclear weaponry.
*In 1919 Mustapha Kemal, Hero of Gallipoli, became ruler permanently exiling the Ottomans and imposing total separation of religious and secular authorities in Turkey; giving the people freedom they had never experienced. He was adulated till the day of his death. Then the humanitarian types led by the UN agitated continually for the restoration of the old ways which has now borne fruit w/the rule of Erdogan. This would never have happened were it not for the role of our State Dept in pushing for such change.
* Now Moh'd bin Salman, is about to walk on stage. Wish him God speed as the direct ancestor of King Faisal who drove the Ottomans from the Arabian Peninsula in 1917.
A concise summary, though it would take an encyclopedia to do it justice.
All can be traced back to greed, power, control and as you pointed out, socialism/Progressive failures.
One can only hope this young visionary has the charisma and balls to make it all work, though I expect blood to be spilled, most likely Iranian blood for fear he may succeed in bringing an end of religious rule in the M/E.
This huge story is basically being ignored by the MSM. I guess it is too deep for their shallow thinking as following Al Franken's hands is more on their intellectual level.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 17, 2017, 12:03:26 PM
This huge story is basically being ignored by the MSM. I guess it is too deep for their shallow thinking as following Al Franken's hands is more on their intellectual level.
This is why I posted it. Just go to the comments section of the article and you'll see what I mean.
Not just libs, but everyone across the board has somehow been led to believe this is bad, that this Prince is in it for the money. Money? The guy is already filthy stinkin rich, including as conspiracy theories like Trump wants WWIII to feed his crony war machine, or as a couple claimed, his way of undoing Carter's and Obozo's peace initiative. Two buffoons of historical stupidity that caused much of the problems we're seeing today.
Seriously, that's the level of intellect in this country, and by God, it's damned sad.
So I posted this here because most of our readership wants the truth, not some emotional response from someone that couldn't even find Kuwait on a map, let alone spell it.
No, I wanted everyone to know the truth and just how historical an event this is in our lifetime.
Quote from: Solar on November 17, 2017, 11:25:21 AM
A concise summary, though it would take an encyclopedia to do it justice.
All can be traced back to greed, power, control and as you pointed out, socialism/Progressive failures.
One can only hope this young visionary has the charisma and balls to make it all work, though I expect blood to be spilled, most likely Iranian blood for fear he may succeed in bringing an end of religious rule in the M/E.
I do believe there will be blood shed. Lots of it. That much craziness will not go away overnight. At least with Saudi leading the charge, the liberals here should keep quiet. Except maybe obama. Wonder how he is taking the news? :scared: Imagine, a m.e. where they do not think America is the great satan.
Quote from: s3779m on November 17, 2017, 12:32:24 PM
I do believe there will be blood shed. Lots of it. That much craziness will not go away overnight. At least with Saudi leading the charge, the liberals here should keep quiet. Except maybe obama. Wonder how he is taking the news? :scared: Imagine, a m.e. where they do not think America is the great satan.
Please elaborate on your "lots of blood shed" comment. Who against who? Will it be internal in SA or will other countries be involved? SA is primarily Sunni. Will Iran get involved because of the fear of Sunni influence?
Quote from: s3779m on November 17, 2017, 12:32:24 PM
I do believe there will be blood shed. Lots of it. That much craziness will not go away overnight. At least with Saudi leading the charge, the liberals here should keep quiet. Except maybe obama. Wonder how he is taking the news? :scared: Imagine, a m.e. where they do not think America is the great satan.
Yeah, this will come down to a Shia, Sunni standoff, in that Shia majority countries are Azerbaijan, Iran, Iraq, and Bahrain being a majority religion, it is Iran that creates the schism that is the modern day M/E.
With that said, I believe this Prince will show his strength with a US/Israeli backed influence that will bring Iran to the table, it is in their best interest to find peace or suffer the consequence of the free world.
With hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to see it was Obozo trying to destabilize the entire region in favor of Shia, (Shia being his ideological roots), as demonstrated by his support of the failed Arab Spring.
This Prince and Trump are turning all of this around, add to that, we now have a permanent base in Israel, and Israel is now willing to share with the Saudis, their military intel on Iran.
If Iran was to attack SA, Iran would be up against the biggest allied force imaginable on a historical level and Iran really has no allies that matter in the region, not even Russia would enter into the equation.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 17, 2017, 12:54:08 PM
Please elaborate on your "lots of blood shed" comment. Who against who? Will it be internal in SA or will other countries be involved? SA is primarily Sunni. Will Iran get involved because of the fear of Sunni influence?
I don't see the clergies in iran giving up power, and freedom has a way of spreading to other countries, especially ones who have had a taste of it. Nor can I see what is left of the fringe groups just giving up.There are too many hard core clergies who do have a lot of control. I can see the message going out for a holy war against Saudi with the usual promise of 72 virgins ect. I guess one question would be does Saudi have what it takes to battle them? The enemy will be hiding when possible among innocents, could even be in their own country. I don't really see another nation siding with iran but that would not stop "tribes" from giving some support. Will be interesting. As to the question, I think we will see bloodshed at first in the way of terrorism with random suicides to kill as many as possible to see it that will stop it. I do not think any of this would have moved forward had obama still been in office. Or if that witch ( cant think of her name at the moment) would have won.
Quote from: Solar on November 17, 2017, 06:12:30 AM
This was the cherry on top for me. It was the Wahabi that personally created all the fanatics that come from this so called religion.
I'd love to see the Prince start locking the Clerics up for crimes against humanity.
They are going to be slipping in shit trying to get out of the kingdom, where can they go? Afghanistan? Sudan?
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on November 17, 2017, 05:52:25 PM
They are going to be slipping in shit trying to get out of the kingdom, where can they go? Afghanistan? Sudan?
Good point, no one will take them in, they're the epitome of trouble.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on November 17, 2017, 05:52:25 PM
They are going to be slipping in shit trying to get out of the kingdom, where can they go? Afghanistan? Sudan?
could be, neither country has enough power (or will) to keep them out. Has Libya or Syria stabilized enough to keep them out. Obama might have messed them up enough where they can't. One trick they do have, they can filter in and blend in for awhile. Then again, maybe the liberals in Europe might ke them in.
Quote from: s3779m on November 18, 2017, 01:11:47 AM
could be, neither country has enough power (or will) to keep them out. Has Libya or Syria stabilized enough to keep them out. Obama might have messed them up enough where they can't. One trick they do have, they can filter in and blend in for awhile. Then again, maybe the liberals in Europe might ke them in.
Good question...
These fanatics wielded great power for decades with Royal support. The reason for their support was much like Bush giving our education system to Teddy Kennedy, the gop'E wanted Dim support, the SA Royal family was guaranteed power as long as the Wahabbi were allowed to teach the children. Our education system is parallel to that of Saudi Arabia, in that the country produced a bunch of mindless fanatics.
Not that our school system wasn't already owned by Marxists, but Bush finally gave them the deed.
I've yet to find any sources stating the Wahabi will no longer be teaching, but it seems like their eviction from the schools would be imminent, especially after disbanding the religious police.
Until he starts locking them up, they'll probably stay put, but one can be certain, if they start going against the prince in rebellion, he'll quickly make examples of a chosen few cleric.
Interesting scenario, none of which I have ANY understanding - and I have a kid over there, USAF. I'll get a pretty good rendering of it, when he gets leave & comes home.
My brother who has lived there +20yrs basically said there are 3 types, the stupid rich living off the state & doing nothing, just lazy; the religious rich fanatics, causing trouble, raising terrorists; and the smart rich, who get educated, become productive... and none of them do manual labor.
Just a wild guess... :confused: where the military falls, whatever persuasion, probably has more to do with Salman's success or failure...? :confused: If he can round up the Princes, put them on trial - those religious fanatics are probably next, I'd guess, and that might take some serious military action. :popcorn:
Once again showing the key to peace in the middle east, is in the middle east, not the USA. Jimmy Carter is probably crying in his beer, all that work he did, all Obama's work... wasted, thanks to some 32yr old upstart.
Keep the updates coming, I don't trust any MSM news source on the middle east - they've completely muddied the waters.
For our readers that aren't familiar with Wahabism, here is a brief description of the ideological history of this warped belief.
Keep in mind, Iran was once friendly to the US before the radicals seized power, as is the Royal family of (SA) Saudi Arabia.
At about that same time, SA was also grappling with the dangers it imposed on the Kingdom, hence Osama Bin Laden.
I'll just clip the center of the article, though it doesn't go into great detail, it summarizes the issue pretty well.
Please read the entire article, it'll only takes a few minutes to bring you up to date, and you'll see why it's so important we support the Prince, 'soon to be King' of SA.
The origins of nearly all of the 20th century's Islamic extremist movements lie in a new Islamic theology and ideology developed in the 18th and 19th centuries in tribal areas of the eastern Arabian Peninsula. The source of this new stream of thought was a Muslim scholar named Muhammad ibn Abd-al Wahhab, hence the name "Wahhabism."
The premise of this new, narrow ideology was to reject traditional scholars, scholarship and practices under the guise of "reviving the true tenets of Islam" and protecting the concept of monotheism. Ibn Abd al-Wahhab's brand of "purification" of Islam consisted of prohibiting many traditionally accepted acts of worship, reverence of the person of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and the pious saints, and burning books containing traditional prayers, interpretations of law and commentaries on the Qur'an and Hadith. He encouraged his followers to interpret the holy books for themselves and to act on their interpretations in light of their own understanding, regardless of their understanding of fundamental principles or lack thereof. Anyone who did not profess to this new ideology was considered outside of the realm of Islam - an apostate, disbeliever or idolater, thus making the shedding of their blood and confiscation of their wealth permitted. In this way, he was able to secure a significant following whose legacy continues in one form or another until today.
Over time, Ibn Wahhab's ideas spread far and wide, being debated, called into question and sometimes supported. A struggle ensued between the staunchly orthodox Ottoman Empire and the "Wahhabi" tribes. The Wahhabis were put down until the eventual dismantling of the Ottoman Empire in the 1920s and the dissolution of its influence. Finding a new opportunity among the tribes, Wahhabis were able to reinstate their beliefs and assert their influence on Muslims of the Peninsula.
Gradually from 1920 until today, they were very successful in establishing an "accepted" new ideology in Islam whose essential characteristic is extreme views and interpretations, as contrasted with traditional Sunni Islam. Coming under the guise of reform of the religion, the movement gathered momentum in the last three decades with support from a number of wealthy individuals. As it has grown, the movement mutated and splintered, with the eventual outcome that some groups went to the extreme in radicalization of their beliefs.
Influence of Wahhabism Today
The Wahhabi ideology is antagonistic to non-Muslims and to traditional practices including seeking intercession by means of the pious saints in Islam, accepted by traditional Sunni Islam for over 1400 years. By rejecting any form of hierarchy such as that followed by traditional Sunni schools, the Wahhabis rejected traditional rulings on a wide range of subjects, invalidated the four schools of thought and its accepted interpretations of law, as well as issued declarations of unbelief for those who disagreed.
While this new ideology prohibited many traditional Islamic forms of worship, its followers did not become overtly militant until recently. Now "Wahhabi" followers have taken up an increasingly confrontational standpoint attempting to impose their ideology in many regions around the world. The Wahhabi mentality asserts that Islam may be reformed by means of the sword. Thus the movement has manifested itself as armed insurrections throughout the world, especially where governments are weak and unable to resist aggression effectively.
Unfortunately, this narrow ideology has appeared and flourished in Islam, but not because of Islam. Previously, Islam was always presented in a peaceful, tolerant manner. The Prophet Muhammad (s) used to present his neighbors or friends that were not Muslim with gifts and flowers, never holding a sword against them, or ever instigating a struggle or a fight. There are many events in Muslim history where the Prophet made peace treaties with non-Muslims. Islam, despite its rapid spread in its first three centuries, never imposed its beliefs on anyone, as attested by the scrolls of history.
Under this modern ideological extremism, Islam's essential principle of tolerance has been abolished. The Holy Qur'an mentions repeatedly that there is no compulsion in religion and that all people are free to practice any religion they like. Those of the Wahhabi ideology selectively apply verses of the Holy Qur'an to support their ideology, whose basis is to impose its beliefs upon everyone, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/anti-extremism/7-islamic-radicalism-its-wahhabi-roots-and-current-representation.html
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2017, 06:16:32 AM
Good question...
These fanatics wielded great power for decades with Royal support. The reason for their support was much like Bush giving our education system to Teddy Kennedy, the gop'E wanted Dim support, the SA Royal family was guaranteed power as long as the Wahabbi were allowed to teach the children. Our education system is parallel to that of Saudi Arabia, in that the country produced a bunch of mindless fanatics.
Not that our school system wasn't already owned by Marxists, but Bush finally gave them the deed.
I've yet to find any sources stating the Wahabi will no longer be teaching, but it seems like their eviction from the schools would be imminent, especially after disbanding the religious police.
Until he starts locking them up, they'll probably stay put, but one can be certain, if they start going against the prince in rebellion, he'll quickly make examples of a chosen few cleric.
Hadn't really thought about it, but I wonder where Russia will stand on this one. If iran makes a move, will Russia back it? If not, will they risk losing face rather than go against Saudi, Israel, and the U.S. Imho, if iran makes a move, Putin will be in a no win situation.
Quote from: s3779m on November 18, 2017, 03:32:02 PM
Hadn't really thought about it, but I wonder where Russia will stand on this one. If iran makes a move, will Russia back it? If not, will they risk losing face rather than go against Saudi, Israel, and the U.S. Imho, if iran makes a move, Putin will be in a no win situation.
That's what I think as well. Russia has their own problems with radical Islum, and if they're smart, they'll join the coalition fighting these radicals.
Though I think Russia will stay somewhat on the sidelines, while quietly helping Iran, just to needle the US and force us to spend treasure and help prolong the fight.
Truth is, we did the same thing when they went to Afghanistan, so in their mind, it'll be a bit of payback for all the lives lost as well as their war.
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2017, 03:41:52 PM
That's what I think as well. Russia has their own problems with radical Islum, and if they're smart, they'll join the coalition fighting these radicals.
Though I think Russia will stay somewhat on the sidelines, while quietly helping Iran, just to needle the US and force us to spend treasure and help prolong the fight.
Truth is, we did the same thing when they went to Afghanistan, so in their mind, it'll be a bit of payback for all the lives lost as well as their war.
Wouldn't mind seeing Israel taking out a few of irans nukes.
Quote from: s3779m on November 18, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Wouldn't mind seeing Israel taking out a few of irans nukes.
..and make another Documentary! There's a video of nearly every military encounter, via History Channel, Youtube or some religious group. On a video-per-square-mile-of-country, Israel wins the prize for the most!
Quote from: s3779m on November 18, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Wouldn't mind seeing Israel taking out a few of irans nukes.
That time is probably coming, which is why we built a base in Israel. Wanna bet it's stocked with bunker busters?
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2017, 04:38:31 PM
That time is probably coming, which is why we built a base in Israel. Wanna bet it's stocked with bunker busters?
An Israeli-Saudi attack on Iran's nukes would completely change the situation in the middle east.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on November 18, 2017, 06:25:55 PM
An Israeli-Saudi attack on Iran's nukes would completely change the situation in the middle east.
Yes, that would be quite something, but the fact that Israel is offering SA Intel on Iran is huge.
Joos helping Muslims, Muslims helping Joooos? Who'd a thunk this day would ever come?
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2017, 06:46:43 PM
Yes, that would be quite something, but the fact that Israel is offering SA Intel on Iran is huge.
Joos helping Muslims, Muslims helping Joooos? Who'd a thunk this day would ever come?
Somewhere beyond hell Yassir Arafat had a stroke.
Quote from: s3779m on November 17, 2017, 02:18:01 PM
I don't see the clergies in iran giving up power, and freedom has a way of spreading to other countries, especially ones who have had a taste of it. Nor can I see what is left of the fringe groups just giving up.There are too many hard core clergies who do have a lot of control. I can see the message going out for a holy war against Saudi with the usual promise of 72 virgins ect. I guess one question would be does Saudi have what it takes to battle them? The enemy will be hiding when possible among innocents, could even be in their own country. I don't really see another nation siding with iran but that would not stop "tribes" from giving some support. Will be interesting. As to the question, I think we will see bloodshed at first in the way of terrorism with random suicides to kill as many as possible to see it that will stop it. I do not think any of this would have moved forward had obama still been in office. Or if that witch ( cant think of her name at the moment) would have won.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree that while the attitude and behavior of the Mullahs is vital, yet it hardly defines the outcome.
Previously I mentioned Mustapha Kemal, a name now lost in the mists of time; so reflect here a moment.
In the 19th century, Kemal, an Officer in the Ottoman Army, showed notable leadership attributes which led to a recommendation that he be further trained in Prussia, then an ally of the Ottomans, by their Military.
When War commenced in 1914, he was posted to defend the Dardanelles at Gallipoli; the gateway to Constantinople/Istanbul, their Capital.
In 1915, he defeated an overwhelming Anglo-French Army and Naval Force, inflicting some 250,000 allied casualties and burying the political career of Winston Churchill, for more than a generation.
Kemal, a strong secular nationalist, was a great hero to the people, rising to ruler in 1918. His European experience had heightened his awareness that change was in the mind and soul of his people; and as all great leaders do, he seized the moment!
* In 1922, he abolished the Sultanate; then in existence for more than 600 years.
* In 1924, he abolished the Caliphate; then in existence since Mohammed, for almost 1300 years!
Further, he;
* exiled the Ottoman Leadership,
* banned the public wearing of the Fez/Turban(men) and the Hijaab(women),
* converted the calendar to Gregorian,
* removed Islam from the Constitution, as the State Religion,
* installed the Military as the center of power, replacing the Mullahs,
* removed the power of religious institutions to enforce secular decisions.
To this day his rule is revered by common people, as his 30 Monuments along the Bosporus Shoreline attest.
He ruled for some 25 years and was a bulwark for Europe against the Soviet Union when Stalin was in power.
Additionally he created a strong military which was a staunch ally of the USA during the Korean War.
What is my point???
The likes of Mustapha Kemal, while extremely rare, do exist in the Middle East; notably in the Emirate of Bahrain, in the Sultanate of Oman , in Dubai and Abu Dhabi; among others.
When they emerge we owe them our admiration and best wishes.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on November 18, 2017, 06:25:55 PM
An Israeli-Saudi attack on Iran's nukes would completely change the situation in the middle east.
And ruin obama's day.
Quote from: Walter Josh on November 18, 2017, 10:56:18 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree that while the attitude and behavior of the Mullahs is vital, yet it hardly defines the outcome.
Previously I mentioned Mustapha Kemal, a name now lost in the mists of time; so reflect here a moment.
In the 19th century, Kemal, an Officer in the Ottoman Army, showed notable leadership attributes which led to a recommendation that he be further trained in Prussia, then an ally of the Ottomans, by their Military.
When War commenced in 1914, he was posted to defend the Dardanelles at Gallipoli; the gateway to Constantinople/Istanbul, their Capital.
In 1915, he defeated an overwhelming Anglo-French Army and Naval Force, inflicting some 250,000 allied casualties and burying the political career of Winston Churchill, for more than a generation.
Kemal, a strong secular nationalist, was a great hero to the people, rising to ruler in 1918. His European experience had heightened his awareness that change was in the mind and soul of his people; and as all great leaders do, he seized the moment!
* In 1922, he abolished the Sultanate; then in existence for more than 600 years.
* In 1924, he abolished the Caliphate; then in existence since Mohammed, for almost 1300 years!
Further, he;
* exiled the Ottoman Leadership,
* banned the public wearing of the Fez/Turban(men) and the Hijaab(women),
* converted the calendar to Gregorian,
* removed Islam from the Constitution, as the State Religion,
* installed the Military as the center of power, replacing the Mullahs,
* removed the power of religious institutions to enforce secular decisions.
To this day his rule is revered by common people, as his 30 Monuments along the Bosporus Shoreline attest.
He ruled for some 25 years and was a bulwark for Europe against the Soviet Union when Stalin was in power.
Additionally he created a strong military which was a staunch ally of the USA during the Korean War.
What is my point???
The likes of Mustapha Kemal, while extremely rare, do exist in the Middle East; notably in the Emirate of Bahrain, in the Sultanate of Oman , in Dubai and Abu Dhabi; among others.
When they emerge we owe them our admiration and best wishes.
You raise an interesting phenomenon that appears more often it seems, in the M/E culture, that being a thirst for quality leadership.
I would venture to guess it's because of a lack of Bill of Rights, where so much of law is based on a religion and cultural beliefs/Tribalism, that when a true leader rises up, the masses gladly8 get behind him in support.
ISIS for example, played on the hate, bigotry, and ignorance of the fools that bought the Wahabi lie, as well as the promise of riches now and an even better life as a martyr after death, that and the threat of death if they didn't join in.
This too is seeing its final days, especially once the stolen wealth is revealed to be in the hands of puppet leaders that played upon the ignorance of their followers'
Your point is solid, in that his leadership is long over due and willing masses are waiting to support the removal of a lawless society, anyway, one bereft of actual law written as in a Bill of Rights, instead the people have been subjected to the whims of many different individuals heading religious courts and dolling out judgement on the street.
Then there's the issue of the royal family being the final arbiter in financial decisions, which is at the crux of his arresting and jailing his own brethren and family.
It was this move that instantly got the attention of the people, a man, a Royal member arresting the corrupt within his own order?
Unheard of in modern times, not to mention the scale at which this took place, a sweep across the M/E.
You are right, this Prince, if not assassinated, will go down in the annals of history as one of the greatest leaders in the M/E of the millennia, a man revered the world over.
We live in interesting times, and I'm actually grateful we're front seat and center stage to watch as it unfolds, and that includes the implosion of the left worldwide.
With that said. There is a prophecy that says Islam will see its strongest times starting this century, a rebirth if you will. Followed by 1000 years of peace.
I used to see that as a dire warning, knowing the fanatical entity pushing this false religion across the world.
However, imagine for a moment, the will of this Prince imposing his brand of Islum on the denomination of those in power, rewriting actual law and bringing peace within the religion, it's possible this prophecy could be good for a world, a world that wars consistently overt faith, an idea that is unprovable, yet people willing die over their belief.
After all, he did just remove the religious police from power, essentially killing the law ruling the masses, usurping the power of religious law, the first step towards an actual Constitution.
I'm not one to believe religious prophecy, but when you have a billion people willing to believe it, it becomes self fulling.
We very well, may see this prophecy come to fruition, only in a good and peaceful way.