Fixing a problem with Reply #13. Can you delete it? I don't see an option.

QuoteIn what reality does a state not look out for it's best interests? Flint Michigan, where the Fed was the polluter and the state had little say in the matter. That was the original charge of the federal govt, anything else was an overreach.

I had Cleveland in mind - the dumping in the Cuyahoga River got so bad it caught on fire. The state was asleep at the wheel.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/63#.WLbjRH_YGQw

QuoteIt's one thing to have Federal laws governing air and water, it's a whole other monster when an agency is charged with enforcing rules they've created out of thin air. Lawsuits are to be worked out in court, not some bureaucrat's office desk. No, courts would step in with an injunction to cease and desist order.

Makes sense - the courts are where the controversies need to put a stop to nonsense. A bureaucrat has no real guidance and can shoot off any direction and few seem to have much common sense.

Allow me to make a definition to aid precision of the discussion.
Bureaucrat =  an official in a government department concerned with procedural correctness at the expense of people's needs.

QuoteBackup nearly a century. It was this thinking that created the fed bureaucracy in the first place, with the Interstate Highway system, "Hoover dam, and dams all across the US, now in total need of repair and no money left to fix them outside of printing more and stealing the next unborn generations inheritance and sticking them with the bill. We either stop giving the fed all this power or we kiss states Rights goodbye.

Oh, like all the wind farms the fed funded and helped construct around the country? You know, the libs Eagle Cuisinart, bat grinders, bird blendomatics, or Riparian zones like the ones on the West coast where the army corp of engineers and their good intentions meant well but failed to deliver, that kind of oversight? Point is, no one cares more for their environment than the locals that live there and the further away a govt entity gets from any given location, the more detached it becomes from the problems it creates.

Yeah - the wind farms are such a fiasco in about every way imaginable.

Locals SHOULD care more but things do go wrong even WITH all the fed regs. But there are occasional exceptions; some areas can get out of control - again the Cuyahoga  River near Cleveland comes to mind and the crime problems in Chicago (similar in other cities). I think there comes a time that if a state doesn't take care of the safety of it's citizens and a threshold is crossed then the feds have to act - but only in specific instances, in a very limited manner, and as protection of the citizens. So light fed government with very limited power.

QuoteWhat we need is a solid set of guidelines and a private entity to oversee it, and keep it out of the hands of bureaucrats. The left loves to grow govt, the right believes people can better manage issues so we believe the private sector has a better approach, where people can actually be fired for their mistakes and corruption.

Excellent point. I hadn't factored in private sector interaction and I don't see that the use of private sector has been employed much over the history of our government. That's a very important piece that would seem to add a great local value and eliminates the bureaucrat because if someone in the private sector gets focused on the procedures instead of the results (becomes a bureaucrat) then they lose their job. Not so in government - in government, bureaucrats just keep on sitting at their desk wasting our taxes. Competition, as prevalent in the private sector and absent in government, works well as people are motivated to keep their jobs - a self-correcting impetus.

Quote from: topside on March 01, 2017, 08:53:44 AM
Fixing a problem with Reply #13. Can you delete it? I don't see an option.

I had Cleveland in mind - the dumping in the Cuyahoga River got so bad it caught on fire. The state was asleep at the wheel.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/63#.WLbjRH_YGQw

Makes sense - the courts are where the controversies need to put a stop to nonsense. A bureaucrat has no real guidance and can shoot off any direction and few seem to have much common sense.

Allow me to make a definition to aid precision of the discussion.
Bureaucrat =  an official in a government department concerned with procedural correctness at the expense of people's needs.

Yeah - the wind farms are such a fiasco in about every way imaginable.

Locals SHOULD care more but things do go wrong even WITH all the fed regs. But there are occasional exceptions; some areas can get out of control - again the Cuyahoga  River near Cleveland comes to mind and the crime problems in Chicago (similar in other cities). I think there comes a time that if a state doesn't take care of the safety of it's citizens and a threshold is crossed then the feds have to act - but only in specific instances, in a very limited manner, and as protection of the citizens. So light fed government with very limited power.

Chicago is a perfect example of Fed/state/political party collusion. Remove the fed money and you lose party influence.
Remember, Obozo was a product of this symbiotic relationship.

QuoteExcellent point. I hadn't factored in private sector interaction and I don't see that the use of private sector has been employed much over the history of our government. That's a very important piece that would seem to add a great local value and eliminates the bureaucrat because if someone in the private sector gets focused on the procedures instead of the results (becomes a bureaucrat) then they lose their job. Not so in government - in government, bureaucrats just keep on sitting at their desk wasting our taxes. Competition, as prevalent in the private sector and absent in government, works well as people are motivated to keep their jobs - a self-correcting impetus.

Ummm, actually that's the formula government used for its first 150 years.