Guess who's been nudged back to the right...
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/trump-senate-if-you-cant-replace-immediately-repeal
QuoteIn a Friday morning tweet, President Donald Trump sent lawmakers a message on the stalled effort to produce a Republican health care bill:
"If Republican Senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately REPEAL, and then REPLACE at a later date!"
This is the first time Trump has advocated straight repeal.
It's gotta pass!!! They already voted to repeal it dozens of times, what's the difference now?
(I didn't believe in "show votes" - did anyone else?)
He hears us and it appears we're getting through to him. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 02:24:22 PM
He hears us and it appears we're getting through to him. :thumbsup:
I think he has always been for repeal but tied up in the campaign rhetoric to repeal and replace! I've always thought straight repeal the better option tied to say a 2 year draw down that gives congress a chance to fix the real problems like say, TORT REFORM!! There a million different ways to help the disenfranchised that cost one hell of a lot less then Obama care.
We should tack a thread at the top for real suggestions on how to cut insurance costs and also offer a basic care safety net to the uninsured and underinsured short of one size fits all commie care! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: redbeard on June 30, 2017, 03:40:58 PM
I think he has always been for repeal but tied up in the campaign rhetoric to repeal and replace! I've always thought straight repeal the better option tied to say a 2 year draw down that gives congress a chance to fix the real problems like say, TORT REFORM!! There a million different ways to help the disenfranchised that cost one hell of a lot less then Obama care.
We should tack a thread at the top for real suggestions on how to cut insurance costs and also offer a basic care safety net to the uninsured and underinsured short of one size fits all commie care!
Why?
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 06:11:52 PM
Why?
Before Commie care we had heath care cost problems brought by indigent people using the emergency rm. every time they had a head cold. these cost to the hospitals were spread to all the other patents and their insurance cost driven up. Tort reform is another issue that drives up cost. Just the threat of lawsuits cause doctors to over test "just in case" driving up cost. overpayment for legitimate suits drive up cost went someone's award is 10 time the damage done.
These are things that needed to be addressed prior to Obama nationalizing the whole system! I want to return to what we had prior to the Marxist and fix the problems causing the serious rise in cost prior to 2010.
Quote from: redbeard on June 30, 2017, 06:25:55 PM
Before Commie care we had heath care cost problems brought by indigent people using the emergency rm. every time they had a head cold. these cost to the hospitals were spread to all the other patents and their insurance cost driven up. Tort reform is another issue that drives up cost. Just the threat of lawsuits cause doctors to over test "just in case" driving up cost. overpayment for legitimate suits drive up cost went someone's award is 10 time the damage done.
These are things that needed to be addressed prior to Obama nationalizing the whole system! I want to return to what we had prior to the Marxist and fix the problems causing the serious rise in cost prior to 2010.
And how is socialized medicine going to change that, isn't that the point of this thread, eliminating govt interference?
Yet here you are advocating for the very entity that created the mess, and giving them the keys to the treasury to fix it?
There is but one solution, get govt the Hell out of it altogether, no if's, and's or but's about it, turn it all overt to the private sector and it will find an equilibrium.
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 06:36:30 PM
And how is socialized medicine going to change that, isn't that the point of this thread, eliminating govt interference?
Yet here you are advocating for the very entity that created the mess, and giving them the keys to the treasury to fix it?
There is but one solution, get govt the Hell out of it altogether, no if's, and's or but's about it, turn it all overt to the private sector and it will find an equilibrium.
Where in the post I just made do you get that I support socialized medicine? Because I support TORT reform or getting the deadbeats out of the emergency room? The government needs to get out of the insurance business.
What would happen if the congress simply repealed without a replacement? Would people lose coverage?
Quote from: redbeard on June 30, 2017, 06:50:31 PM
Where in the post I just made do you get that I support socialized medicine? Because I support TORT reform or getting the deadbeats out of the emergency room? The government needs to get out of the insurance business.
Quote from: redbeard on June 30, 2017, 03:40:58 PM
also offer a basic care safety net to the uninsured and underinsured short of one size fits all commie care!
I'll ask again. Why do you want the very entity responsible for screwing up HC in the first place, another seat back at the table?
If your kid keeps wrecking the family car, do you keep giving him the keys to the next one you buy? Our govt is that same irresponsible child!
That's where we are, the govt has been wrecking and interfering in HC for decades and they finally destroyed it, and you want to let them back to the table, again, why?
Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 30, 2017, 07:25:49 PM
What would happen if the congress simply repealed without a replacement? Would people lose coverage?
That should be up to the states, shouldn't it? :biggrin:
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 07:46:33 PM
That should be up to the states, shouldn't it? :biggrin:
I was thinking more about the insurance companies.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 30, 2017, 07:50:58 PM
I was thinking more about the insurance companies.
If they can't survive without govt, I hope they die overnight, but I have a feeling they'd thrive without all the bureaucracy.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 30, 2017, 07:25:49 PM
What would happen if the congress simply repealed without a replacement? Would people lose coverage?
I grew up without health insurance, but never had a problem seeing a doctor
(which was so frequent, my mother tried to pair me up with nurses, repeatedly).
Do we want Doctors & Nurses or Insurance? Repeal the darn thing.
What benefit is a billion dollar policy without a doctor who accepts it?
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 07:55:13 PM
If they can't survive without govt, I hope they die overnight, but I have a feeling they'd thrive without all the bureaucracy.
Truth be told, Government can't survive without their votes... and the republic would be restored quickly without them.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 01, 2017, 06:09:07 AM
Truth be told, Government can't survive without their votes... and the republic would be restored quickly without them.
Explain. How would the Republic be destroyed if we forced govt out of the HC insurance business?
That makes no sense at all to me.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 30, 2017, 07:25:49 PM
What would happen if the congress simply repealed without a replacement? Would people lose coverage?
It would open up the marketplace and go back to being regulated by the states. If repealed, all the mandates and regulations of Obamacare would vanish. That is why I think giving it a year to unfold would allow the states time to adjust.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 01, 2017, 06:09:07 AM
Truth be told, Government can't survive without their votes... and the republic would be restored quickly without them.
Ignore my other post, dyslexia kicked in and I misread what you wrote.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 01, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
It would open up the marketplace and go back to being regulated by the states. If repealed, all the mandates and regulations of Obamacare would vanish. That is why I think giving it a year to unfold would allow the states time to adjust.
I'd like the option of direct payment to the doctor. Mandating health insurance is unAmerican.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 01, 2017, 12:02:00 PM
I'd like the option of direct payment to the doctor. Mandating health insurance is unAmerican.
Yeah, like a mechanic. Could you imagine just how high repair costs would be if govt mandated you had to go through a broker to get car repair?
Quote from: Hoofer on July 01, 2017, 12:02:00 PM
I'd like the option of direct payment to the doctor. Mandating health insurance is unAmerican.
Repeal would remove all mandates and provide the solution you desire.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/340192-state-officials-refuse-to-turn-over-voter-roll-data-to-trump
Well, McConnell is not going to show any courage and repeal. He obviously does not desire the pressure to replace. Not surprising is it?
Just an interesting note / experience about estimates, self-pay, and processing outside the insurance industry. I'm with Medishare and decided to pay the doctors myself where I could afford it and sent he paper through so I know what's going on. I also was asking for estimates up-front.
It shocked the people at the counter who handle payment. They also referred (deferred) me to some numbers to get rough estimates for a knee surgery ... even though they've done thousands. The Dr. (knee specialist) talked to me and when I mentioned an estimate, he started backing out of the room.
I've had similar experience several times. When I give them a Medishare card that processes the paperwork through what looks a lot like an insurance company, everything goes smooth. If I try and understand costs and pay the bills myself / process paper myself, they freak out. The system isn't setup to deal with simple payment nor with understanding costs - the current medical industry is a giant machine that is deeply interconnected to using the insurance process.
BTW - some free market aspects of HC have progressed. I got CT Scan from a local hospital about a year ago and asked for an estimate ... they said they couldn't do one. I pressed and they looked a few things up ... said it would be $700. After the MRI was done, I got three bills that totalled $1200! I pressed them on this and they said there were contributors they were not responsible for ... the technician and lease on the machine! Really???
Now there are shops around that will let you get various scans ... but you need a Dr.'s order. I did the same CT Scan this year for $400 (annual check on an aneurysm). I also had an MRI on the knee for $600. They provided costs up-front and it all went very smooth. So there has been some progress - need to see the free market do more of this.
Can you imagine trying to get an estimate on a heart valve repair? My father just went through one and it was like a parade of Dr.'s, nurses, and technicians going through day-and-night. I know we all want good experience when cared for, but the costs are out of control with the current strategy that anyone does whatever they want and then the final bill shows up six months later very bloated.
Can you imagine. You decide to go to dinner. You call and ask about what it will cost for two. They say that they don't know, but you will enjoy dinner. So you go and get a very nice table. While you are eating, other people keep stopping by while you eat ... one to check the silverware, one to pour the wine, another to take an order, another to check for food under your chair. Then when you are done, the food totals to about $50 and all the "help" adds another $2500. When you challenge it, they apologize and just say that's the way it is. But most people have parents that pay for it anyway, so don't worry about it. They will send the bill to your parents.
Lunacy ... right? Yeah, it is. Passing bills off removes accountability. It's a shell game of sorts.
Oh ... and they also decide to average the bill over the cost of all eating at the restaurant that evening. You only had an appetizer and still got a bill for $2500. That would be at the Obamacare Steak House.
Quote from: topside on July 02, 2017, 04:43:58 AM
Just an interesting note / experience about estimates, self-pay, and processing outside the insurance industry. I'm with Medishare and decided to pay the doctors myself where I could afford it and sent he paper through so I know what's going on. I also was asking for estimates up-front.
It shocked the people at the counter who handle payment. They also referred (deferred) me to some numbers to get rough estimates for a knee surgery ... even though they've done thousands. The Dr. (knee specialist) talked to me and when I mentioned an estimate, he started backing out of the room.
I've heard good things about Medishare from several different people. You are correct, the system is not set up for self-pay. When HIPAA was introduced Clinton also set in place a universal system of medical coding and billing which ALL medical entities utilize or insurance companies won't pay. If a medical code doesn't match the procedure performed, the insurance company will and can reject the claim. Medical coding and billing is a full-time job and that's all those people do; make sure that the medical codes match procedures and orders so that the insurance companies will pay.
Several years ago, my daughter needed to go to the doctor and didn't have insurance; I offered to pay for the office visit out of pocket; it threw the receptionist and co-workers completely off; they had to figure out what to charge, how to accept payment and process it into the system. It is absolutely ridiculous.
IMHO medical coding and billing not only gives an insurance company a way to opt out or delay paying, but ties a doctors hands and lines the insurance companies pockets as well. Certain tests and procedures cannot be done unless other tests and procedures are done first.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 01, 2017, 12:36:36 PM
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/340192-state-officials-refuse-to-turn-over-voter-roll-data-to-trump
Well, McConnell is not going to show any courage and repeal. He obviously does not desire the pressure to replace. Not surprising is it?
The link is off subject. I think this is the link you are referring. If not please feel free to correct.
Now I see Mitch McConnell doesn't want to play ball with the president or the conservatives. Something tells me he wants to play ball with the democrats.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/340360-mcconnell-were-going-to-stick-to-obamacare-repeal-and-replace-despite-trump
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fdims4%2Fdefault%2Ff1141c9%2F2147483647%2Fresize%2F1160x%253E%2Fquality%2F90%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.politico.com%252F9f%252Fd9%252F2b2334c44acb83db7b08144b2593%252F170701-mitch-mcconnnell-ap-17181852618058.jpg&hash=5572882e82f5c20294bfae27495c5a21507695b4)
QuoteMcConnell on Obamacare repeal: 'Not easy making America great again'
(Translation: McConnell on Obamacare repeal: 'I'm doing everything I can to stop this "make America great again"...'
Quote"Failure has to be possible or you can't have success," McConnell told a group of Republicans in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, according to the AP. The majority leader, in a nod to Trump's famed campaign promise, added: "It's not easy making America great again, is it?"
What kind of twisted logic comes up with this kind of nonsense? Oh, it's a Republican who's focused intently on FAILURE! :cursing:
Remember, he has his Platinum Senate Health Care plan, if he had to live under Obamacare like the rest of us, it would have been repealed the day after Trump walked in the door of the WH.
Quote from: Bronx on July 02, 2017, 06:36:01 AM
The link is off subject. I think this is the link you are referring. If not please feel free to correct.
Now I see Mitch McConnell doesn't want to play ball with the president or the conservatives. Something tells me he wants to play ball with the democrats.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/340360-mcconnell-were-going-to-stick-to-obamacare-repeal-and-replace-despite-trump
Thanks. I had copied a posted the wrong link.