WASHINGTON—A day after a contested decision to pull American military forces from Syria, officials said Thursday that President Trump has ordered the start of a reduction of American forces in Afghanistan.

More than 7,000 American troops will begin to return home from Afghanistan in the coming weeks, a U.S. official said. The move will come as the first stage of a phased drawdown and the start of a conclusion to the 17-year war that officials say could take at least many months. There now are more than 14,000 U.S. troops in theater.

In a move that coincides with the United States troop withdrawal from Syria, President Donald Trump on Thursday ordered the that several thousand troops  return home from Afghanistan.

It comes as the first stage of a "phased drawdown" and end to a 17-year-old war in the combat-torn Middle East country, the Wall Street Journal first reported, with more than 7,000 U.S. troops starting to return to U.S. shores in the coming weeks.

The report comes just hours after U.S. Secretary of State Jim Mattis handed over his resignation letter to President Trump, largely due to his disagreements over the troop withdraw from Syria and differing views on foreign affairs.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-is-considering-substantial-afghan-troop-drawdown-11545341452

Quote from: mrclose on December 20, 2018, 10:33:24 PM
As a Vet myself, I say that all 'mad dog' cheerleaders watch too much CNN!

Should've been canned a long time ago.

Mattis was instructed by the President to engage the military in patrolling the border and to prohibit entry.

The insubordinate bastard went down there and declared they would stand in the back and and cheer the illegals.


He opposed the President's decision to withdraw from the Paris "climate change" accords, opposed decertifying the Iran deal and opposed moving the embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

And Oh yeah ...

Mattis Tried To Kill Plan To Bar Transgender Surgery For Troops

https://taskandpurpose.com/mattis-tried-to-kill-plan-to-bar-transgender-surgery-for-troops/

AND

Despite Trump's call for ban, Mattis expected to back allowing transgender troops in military

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/nation/article_53b535e8-1822-11e8-bb35-f7c61abba7b7.html

And Let's Not Forget ...

Mattis Warned Recognition of Jerusalem as Capital Could Spur Unrest

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/12/06/mattis-warned-recognition-jerusalem-capital-could-spur-unrest.html

No doubt about it, Mattis had to go. As a Vet, the one thing that was drilled into us all through out our time in service, there's a (COC) Chain of Command, use it, Follow it or face an Article-15. A damned if you do, damned if you don't charge.
Mattis broke all the rules, qualified as insubordinate in the ultimate way, so much so, deserving of a Courts Martial, so he''s luck all he got was resignation request.

If Mattis didnt want the wall then he should have been fired. It is starting to look like he was more concerned about Syria's borders and Afghanistan's borders more so than our own.....screw him, and THANK GOD Trump is pulling our Guys out of Ghanny, stop spending money on a bunch of primitive wipe you azz with your left hand, rape little boys, force your wife to wear a body bag, inbred morons.

As I said a long time ago, have a ops designed to kill a lot of the enemy, show a high body count, declare victory and leave.  Ditto for Syria. 

Thoughtful commentary.
The media assholery is ringing the alarm bell about our sainted military leaders.
Reality is that politics has been a component of military decisions since Alexander and Caesar.
Neither Afghanistan nor Syria had or has anything to do w/the strategic interest of the USA; rather its all  about kissing the rear end of Pentagon types who use these adventures to advance their careers.

Quote from: Walter Josh on December 21, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Thoughtful commentary.
The media assholery is ringing the alarm bell about our sainted military leaders.
Reality is that politics has been a component of military decisions since Alexander and Caesar.
Neither Afghanistan nor Syria had or has anything to do w/the strategic interest of the USA; rather its all  about kissing the rear end of Pentagon types who use these adventures to advance their careers.

War is, failed politics.

In no way do I mean to go against the grain here, but I do not understand this move by the president. All my life I have been told that intervention in the middle east, particularly countries like Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan were a necessary measure to help ensure that the rise of Islamist groups like ISIS does not grow and expand. With the use of U.S drone strikes and coordinated attacks in Syria, we were able to deplete ISIS's land and put them on their heels territory. Why pull out now and risk them growing. It seems like another repeat of Iraq to me. I understand why Trump wants to do it, but to completely abandon our allies there and leave room for radicals to rebuild, reaffirm and control land we took back just doesn't make sense to me.

Quote from: ConservativeInCT on December 21, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
In no way do I mean to go against the grain here, but I do not understand this move by the president. All my life I have been told that intervention in the middle east, particularly countries like Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan were a necessary measure to help ensure that the rise of Islamist groups like ISIS does not grow and expand. With the use of U.S drone strikes and coordinated attacks in Syria, we were able to deplete ISIS's land and put them on their heels territory. Why pull out now and risk them growing. It seems like another repeat of Iraq to me. I understand why Trump wants to do it, but to completely abandon our allies there and leave room for radicals to rebuild, reaffirm and control land we took back just doesn't make sense to me.

Don't believe the leftist hype. Those are talking points straight from the DNC and RINO Establishment war hawks.
Much of the unrest is a direct result of the military war machine, meaning, those that sell weapons to the American and foreign military's world wide.
It's a known fact that the US purposely destabilizes nations around the globe for various reasons, unlike the past, where we actually supported allies, now it's become a crony connection via our politicians and a way to keep them in power, think McStain.

Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2018, 07:47:41 PM
Don't believe the leftist hype. Those are talking points straight from the DNC and RINO Establishment war hawks.
Much of the unrest is a direct result of the military war machine, meaning, those that sell weapons to the American and foreign military's world wide.
It's a known fact that the US purposely destabilizes nations around the globe for various reasons, unlike the past, where we actually supported allies, now it's become a crony connection via our politicians and a way to keep them in power, think McStain.

I can get behind the war machine and I can get behind our destabalization of these nations and the hand of our government effecting their politics. But what I strggle with is the obligation of our military to protect our homeland from people who want to kill us. I have my opinions on the Iraq war and the fight to instill our democracy there but in getting to my issue, I believe that if there is a group such as ISIS that poses such a serious threat to our nation then I think we should be fighting them with fire and fury until they pose no more threat. In Afganastan, I feel we are fighting an endless war there and as soon as our troops pull out the Taliban is going to rise up. I agree with you when you talk about the destabalizing and political connections to allies. My question to you would then be, how can the U.S stop the rise of ISIS in Syria and the Taliban in Afganastan, both of which pose serious threats to the U.S and could cause extreme harm to our nation if we do not continue to fight them?

Quote from: ConservativeInCT on December 21, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
In no way do I mean to go against the grain here, but I do not understand this move by the president. All my life I have been told that intervention in the middle east, particularly countries like Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan were a necessary measure to help ensure that the rise of Islamist groups like ISIS does not grow and expand. With the use of U.S drone strikes and coordinated attacks in Syria, we were able to deplete ISIS's land and put them on their heels territory. Why pull out now and risk them growing. It seems like another repeat of Iraq to me. I understand why Trump wants to do it, but to completely abandon our allies there and leave room for radicals to rebuild, reaffirm and control land we took back just doesn't make sense to me.

---------------------------
An ancient Hindu proverb asserts, " The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
When Bush went to war w/Saddam, who was our enemy?????
IT WAS IRAN NOT IRAQ, a reality a moron like Bush was to stupid to grasp.
Since we refuse to understand the Middle East, suggest we leave it alone!!!

Quote from: ConservativeInCT on December 21, 2018, 09:24:09 PM
I can get behind the war machine and I can get behind our destabalization of these nations and the hand of our government effecting their politics. But what I strggle with is the obligation of our military to protect our homeland from people who want to kill us. I have my opinions on the Iraq war and the fight to instill our democracy there but in getting to my issue, I believe that if there is a group such as ISIS that poses such a serious threat to our nation then I think we should be fighting them with fire and fury until they pose no more threat. In Afganastan, I feel we are fighting an endless war there and as soon as our troops pull out the Taliban is going to rise up. I agree with you when you talk about the destabalizing and political connections to allies. My question to you would then be, how can the U.S stop the rise of ISIS in Syria and the Taliban in Afganastan, both of which pose serious threats to the U.S and could cause extreme harm to our nation if we do not continue to fight them?

A Couple of things, one, we're not a Democracy, we're a Republic, two, that is part of the problem, leftists have been trying to force a backwards society to accept Democratic concepts and it pisses off those they're trying to force to accept it.
Their culture is not our culture, and ever since the M/E was split up, they've been warring, sure, they've always fought, but the Arabs/Saudi Arabia in the last century had made a deal, the Royal family allowed the Wahhabi/church to teach the children, in exchange for allowing the Royal family run the country unimpeded.
Think GW giving Teddy our children to educate, same outcome, Ignorant masses, the Catholic Church once had the same pleasures in Europe, where the powers were divided, which is the very reason the US exists today.
I digress.
Point is, our style of govt clashed with the rest of the world, diplomacy only goes so far, and war is nothing but failed politics.. But to get to the Wahhabi sect, they have been creating children that believe the warped version of Islum. yeah, oddly enough, there is a peaceful version most never see, like say, Jordan.
Point is, there were forces in the world they needed to exploit for oil, but weren't getting anywhere politically, so these powerful figures played an expensive game of chess, moving players around, bribing officials,,, creating divisions anyway possible, and since laws are very different in the M/E, it was hard to hold anyone accountable, unless you pissed of royalty, or the church.

Decades went by, turmoil continued, then the product of Wahhabism  finally came to fruition, they were spreading terror on their own across the M/E into Africa, the media saw a story they could really get into, it had every aspect of drama, and murder made for headlines, so they started reporting on every incursion as if this group of radicals were really all that important, the radicals saw an opportunity to use the media, so they started beheading people before the camera.
This worked perfectly, then out of nowhere, a huge amount of money entered the picture and IS was born and all the other terror groups were no longer getting any media attention, they all focused on the men in black hoods terrifying entire villages and the media helped their cause by showing an supposed invincible force crossing the lands, so communities were falling before their approach.
Even Obozo got involved via the Arab Spring in an attempt to help the terrorists cause.

Point is, ISIS is not as big of a deal as being purported by leftist media and Trump knows this, he set out to destroy IS and succeeded, which is why we're pulling out, the group wasn't as faithful to the cause as the media would have you believe, this so called movement was nothing more than pirates, plunderers, opportunists, but when Trump got serious, they scattered into the desert like the scared dogs they are.
This group is not a bunch of Alquiada, these were nothing more than a bunch of hired mercenaries, which made it super easy to end their rein of terror, Trump did just that by cutting off their funds Their other income came from plunder.
No Income, No ISIS.

Trump knows exactly what's going on in the M/E he knows exactly who the players are, think McStain and his band of terrorist friends as well as Soros, McStains other buddy.



Point being, Trump has entered the game and has completely rearranged the playing field. I have faith that Trump knows exactly what he is doing.
Trump knows who the players are and also knows who is funding the Taliban and is now in the process of maneuvering the money players out of the Afghan theater.
Think about it, we were only in Afghanistan to embarrass Putin, there isn't a damn thing worth a shit there, the terrain alone keeps the peace, and the truth is the people will go about their lives regardless of who runs the country.

So to your final question, once the money players are beaten at their own game, the cross border threat will end. Keep in mind, a large part of the problem that feeds these groups, is competition, we're competing in their game, so if we leave, they'll go back to feuding with one another, just like they have for more than a century.

That's the shortened Readers Digest version, hope it helps, it would take a library of books to explain it right.
Edit::::

One other point. Things are changing quickly, this should be interesting to watch history unfold as Trump actually brings peace to the M/E.

Turkey says nearly 300,000 Syrians return home after military operations

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turkey would postpone a planned military operation against Syrian Kurdish fighters in northeast Syria as he "cautiously" welcomed Washington's decision to withdraw its troops in the area.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKCN1OL0BI?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c1e68e604d301505cff0189&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Quote from: Walter Josh on December 21, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
---------------------------
An ancient Hindu proverb asserts, " The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
When Bush went to war w/Saddam, who was our enemy?????
IT WAS IRAN NOT IRAQ, a reality a moron like Bush was to stupid to grasp.
Since we refuse to understand the Middle East, suggest we leave it alone!!!

Yep, Bush was under the illusion that he could bring peace to the M/E, he stupidly missed the fact that both party's were profiting and had no interest in his dream.

As a Rand Paul republican i welcome the  move to leave.

Quote from: Solar on December 22, 2018, 08:20:21 AM
A Couple of things, one, we're not a Democracy, we're a Republic, two, that is part of the problem, leftists have been trying to force a backwards society to accept Democratic concepts and it pisses off those they're trying to force to accept it.
Their culture is not our culture, and ever since the M/E was split up, they've been warring, sure, they've always fought, but the Arabs/Saudi Arabia in the last century had made a deal, the Royal family allowed the Wahhabi/church to teach the children, in exchange for allowing the Royal family run the country unimpeded.
Think GW giving Teddy our children to educate, same outcome, Ignorant masses, the Catholic Church once had the same pleasures in Europe, where the powers were divided, which is the very reason the US exists today.
I digress.
Point is, our style of govt clashed with the rest of the world, diplomacy only goes so far, and war is nothing but failed politics.. But to get to the Wahhabi sect, they have been creating children that believe the warped version of Islum. yeah, oddly enough, there is a peaceful version most never see, like say, Jordan.
Point is, there were forces in the world they needed to exploit for oil, but weren't getting anywhere politically, so these powerful figures played an expensive game of chess, moving players around, bribing officials,,, creating divisions anyway possible, and since laws are very different in the M/E, it was hard to hold anyone accountable, unless you pissed of royalty, or the church.

Decades went by, turmoil continued, then the product of Wahhabism  finally came to fruition, they were spreading terror on their own across the M/E into Africa, the media saw a story they could really get into, it had every aspect of drama, and murder made for headlines, so they started reporting on every incursion as if this group of radicals were really all that important, the radicals saw an opportunity to use the media, so they started beheading people before the camera.
This worked perfectly, then out of nowhere, a huge amount of money entered the picture and IS was born and all the other terror groups were no longer getting any media attention, they all focused on the men in black hoods terrifying entire villages and the media helped their cause by showing an supposed invincible force crossing the lands, so communities were falling before their approach.
Even Obozo got involved via the Arab Spring in an attempt to help the terrorists cause.

Point is, ISIS is not as big of a deal as being purported by leftist media and Trump knows this, he set out to destroy IS and succeeded, which is why we're pulling out, the group wasn't as faithful to the cause as the media would have you believe, this so called movement was nothing more than pirates, plunderers, opportunists, but when Trump got serious, they scattered into the desert like the scared dogs they are.
This group is not a bunch of Alquiada, these were nothing more than a bunch of hired mercenaries, which made it super easy to end their rein of terror, Trump did just that by cutting off their funds Their other income came from plunder.
No Income, No ISIS.

Trump knows exactly what's going on in the M/E he knows exactly who the players are, think McStain and his band of terrorist friends as well as Soros, McStains other buddy.



Point being, Trump has entered the game and has completely rearranged the playing field. I have faith that Trump knows exactly what he is doing.
Trump knows who the players are and also knows who is funding the Taliban and is now in the process of maneuvering the money players out of the Afghan theater.
Think about it, we were only in Afghanistan to embarrass Putin, there isn't a damn thing worth a shit there, the terrain alone keeps the peace, and the truth is the people will go about their lives regardless of who runs the country.

So to your final question, once the money players are beaten at their own game, the cross border threat will end. Keep in mind, a large part of the problem that feeds these groups, is competition, we're competing in their game, so if we leave, they'll go back to feuding with one another, just like they have for more than a century.

That's the shortened Readers Digest version, hope it helps, it would take a library of books to explain it right.
Edit::::

One other point. Things are changing quickly, this should be interesting to watch history unfold as Trump actually brings peace to the M/E.

Turkey says nearly 300,000 Syrians return home after military operations

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turkey would postpone a planned military operation against Syrian Kurdish fighters in northeast Syria as he "cautiously" welcomed Washington's decision to withdraw its troops in the area.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKCN1OL0BI?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c1e68e604d301505cff0189&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Thank you for the history lesson there Solar. I didnt know much of what was said there. Really helps me get a grasp on political relations there.

Quote from: ConservativeInCT on December 23, 2018, 06:06:07 AM
Thank you for the history lesson there Solar. I didnt know much of what was said there. Really helps me get a grasp on political relations there.

You're very welcome. Most of the members here know all of this, but we have a lot of people that come here because they don't get the truth anywhere else, so I see it as a responsibility when someone doesn't understand the intricacies of a given subject so we expand in a brief summary.
One of the reasons the forum was created, to disseminate truth the LSM buries.