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Author Topic: Palin in 2016  (Read 2712 times)

Turks

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2013, 11:46:54 AM »
Quote from: Crock Hunter on February 28, 2013, 11:32:04 AM
Yes and with the Articles of Confederation the Founders tried small government only to find that government under that document was ineffectual.  It was South Carolina's Charles Pinckney that recommended the expansion of government by way of a new constitution.. They then clandestinely met and penned our present Constitution creating a larger, more powerful central government.   Today, Conservatives would accuse them of supporting large government.. .. .

Do you mean like the DOMA... .

There are indeed individuals that would like to see a more socialist government than we now possess just as there are individuals that would relish having no government at all... . 

However in demonizing everyone left of Palin, I'm afraid you've fallen for the alternate reality created by right-wing corporate shills.. .. We are not as far apart in our wants and needs as you've been led to believe..



Not altogether quite true as you stated it: 

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/governmentandpolitics/f/articles_of_confederation_fails.htm

The reasons they "penned our present Constitution creating a larger, more powerful central government" are far different from the reasons why some want larger government today.  In Obama's case he wants dependency so he can control the individual and the individual's vote.   


Todays' federal goverment is more of an nanny state centralized governenment. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 11:50:22 AM by Turks »
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Solar

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2013, 12:01:36 PM »
Quote from: Crock Hunter on February 28, 2013, 11:32:04 AM
Yes and with the Articles of Confederation the Founders tried small government only to find that government under that document was ineffectual.  It was South Carolina's Charles Pinckney that recommended the expansion of government by way of a new constitution.. They then clandestinely met and penned our present Constitution creating a larger, more powerful central government.   Today, Conservatives would accuse them of supporting large government.. .. .
Pay close attention. The first constitution of the United States, passed by Congress in 1787, but not ratified until 1781, replaced by the present constitution in 1789.
1791 The Bill of Rights dded to the Constitution.
So States disagreeing with the original were in your opinion for bigger Govt, even though they ratified Bill of Rights?

Quote
Do you mean like the DOMA... .

There are indeed individuals that would like to see a more socialist government than we now possess just as there are individuals that would relish having no government at all... . 

However in demonizing everyone left of Palin, I'm afraid you've fallen for the alternate reality created by right-wing corporate shills.. .. We are not as far apart in our wants and needs as you've been led to believe..


You would be wrong to assume Conservatives want no Govt at all, we believe in Govt, just not the one the left has envisioned today or the expansion currently underway.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 12:05:22 PM by Solar »
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Solar Right Wing Extremest

taxed

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2013, 12:06:32 PM »
I watched The Undefeated last night.  She is such a badass.

Her speeches all reflect on our freedoms, the Constitution, etc.  She really knows how to hit home.
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"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

The Boo Man...

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2013, 12:07:59 PM »
Quote from: Solar on February 28, 2013, 12:01:36 PM
Pay close attention. The first constitution of the United States, passed by Congress in 1787, but not ratified until 1781, replaced by the present constitution in 1789.
1791 The Bill of Rights dded to the Constitution.
So States disagreeing with the original were in your opinion for bigger Govt, even though they ratified Bill of Rights?


You would be wrong to assume Conservatives want no Govt at all, we believe in Govt, just not the one the left has envisioned today or the expansion currently underway.

Now he is confusing Conservatism with anarchism...
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Solar

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2013, 12:08:36 PM »
Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 12:06:32 PM
I watched The Undefeated last night.  She is such a badass.

Her speeches all reflect on our freedoms, the Constitution, etc.  She really knows how to hit home.
But Taxed, those are the reasons she shouldn't run according to some, because those are unpopular opinions. :rolleyes:
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Solar Right Wing Extremest

taxed

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2013, 12:10:44 PM »
Quote from: Solar on February 28, 2013, 12:08:36 PM
But Taxed, those are the reasons she shouldn't run according to some, because those are unpopular opinions. :rolleyes:

She took on some really big, entrenched entities.  There was one scene where some powerful oil guy got in her face and told her she didn't know who the f* she was dealing with, and she just stared him down.  The guy gave in.
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"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

Crock Hunter

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2013, 12:17:22 PM »
Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
You posted donor data.  Great.  What does this have to do with union control and influence on elections?


I posted verifiable numbers.. Here is an overall including Corporate/Union Donors....

From whom is less important than How Much.  Do you think more money from either side would give us better candidates and/or more honest elections.. I Don't... In fact all indications are that it has had the opposite effect... . .

Another thing to consider is that Union money is locally sourced primarily from working Americans... However Multinational Corporations are allowed to make donations which in actuality is allowing foreign money to influence our elections.. 


“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” -Thomas Jefferson


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taxed

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2013, 12:42:55 PM »
Quote from: Crock Hunter on February 28, 2013, 12:17:22 PM
I posted verifiable numbers.. Here is an overall including Corporate/Union Donors....

From whom is less important than How Much.  Do you think more money from either side would give us better candidates and/or more honest elections.. I Don't... In fact all indications are that it has had the opposite effect... . .

Another thing to consider is that Union money is locally sourced primarily from working Americans... However Multinational Corporations are allowed to make donations which in actuality is allowing foreign money to influence our elections.. 


“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” -Thomas Jefferson


I'm not disputing your numbers.  I am saying looking at American dollar-for-dollar donation comparison doesn't account for union power.  Obama couldn't raise as much from Americans as Romney, and even the unions were holding back some in case Hussein lost.  That's why he needed donations from China.  More on that: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/10/08/exposing_barack_obamas_illegal_foreign_campaign_money_loophole


Unions have incredible power.  They take advantage and buy off politicians to pass laws, enabling them to get a rake of employees' earnings, against the employees' will, continuing the perpetual cycle of liberal, anti-capitalistic legislation, snowballing their power all subsidized by the worker.  Unions influence local elections and up, from dog catcher up to the President.  More on that: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304782404577488584031850026.html
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 12:50:15 PM by taxed »
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"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

supsalemgr

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2013, 12:49:09 PM »
Quote from: Crock Hunter on February 28, 2013, 12:17:22 PM
I posted verifiable numbers.. Here is an overall including Corporate/Union Donors....

From whom is less important than How Much.  Do you think more money from either side would give us better candidates and/or more honest elections.. I Don't... In fact all indications are that it has had the opposite effect... . .

Another thing to consider is that Union money is locally sourced primarily from working Americans... However Multinational Corporations are allowed to make donations which in actuality is allowing foreign money to influence our elections.. 


“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” -Thomas Jefferson


BTW, we are still awaiting an answer to my question if you support Obama's gun control efforts.
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Solar

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2013, 12:53:02 PM »
Quote from: Crock Hunter on February 28, 2013, 12:17:22 PM
I posted verifiable numbers.. Here is an overall including Corporate/Union Donors....

From whom is less important than How Much.  Do you think more money from either side would give us better candidates and/or more honest elections.. I Don't... In fact all indications are that it has had the opposite effect... . .

Another thing to consider is that Union money is locally sourced primarily from working Americans... However Multinational Corporations are allowed to make donations which in actuality is allowing foreign money to influence our elections.. 


“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” -Thomas Jefferson

Where do you get this shit?
Even lib sites expose the truth from time to time. Read and learn something.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000088
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Solar Right Wing Extremest

taxed

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2013, 12:57:46 PM »
Quote from: Solar on February 28, 2013, 12:53:02 PM
Where do you get this shit?
Even lib sites expose the truth from time to time. Read and learn something.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000088


Foreign donations???  He needs to get up to speed:
http://www.examiner.com/article/report-obama-camp-soliciting-donations-from-china-vietnam-other-countries
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"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

Solar

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2013, 01:01:43 PM »
Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 12:57:46 PM
Foreign donations???  He needs to get up to speed:
http://www.examiner.com/article/report-obama-camp-soliciting-donations-from-china-vietnam-other-countries

Yeah, I saw that too, but you have to take a slow pace with these people, too much info at one time tends to overload them. :biggrin:

I'm guessing he is growing into a Libertarian, but he's still packed full of leftist talking points, but is starting to question their validity.
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Solar Right Wing Extremest

Crock Hunter

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2013, 01:16:05 PM »
Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
That's why he needed donations from China.


I'm afraid your news source isn't being completely truthful with you...

A September 2012 analysis by the Government Accountability Institute doesn't show any verifiable instances of illegal foreign donations to the Obama campaign.  In fact the report says that both candidates had issues with fraudulent Internet campaign donations in the 2008 election, and that in the 2012 election both major-party candidates' campaign literature has been circulated on foreign social media with links to pages through which donations can be made.

I'm more than willing to stop these donations.. Removing the root of all evil will undoubtedly make for a more honest open election system... .


Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
Unions influence local elections and up, from dog catcher up to the President.


I don't think anyone here is naive enough to think that corporations do not have great influence in our election process.. .
How Big Business Is Buying the Election

Again I ask... Would you agree to remove this level of money from our system of election.. Do you imagine the Founders would find favor in the Presidency going to the highest bidder?
 

« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 01:29:20 PM by Crock Hunter »
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Crock Hunter

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2013, 01:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Solar on February 28, 2013, 12:53:02 PM
Where do you get this shit?
Even lib sites expose the truth from time to time. Read and learn something.


Nothing from your linked site contradicts what you've highlighted..
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Crock Hunter

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Re: Palin in 2016
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2013, 01:26:02 PM »
Quote from: taxed on February 28, 2013, 12:57:46 PM
Foreign donations???  He needs to get up to speed:
http://www.examiner.com/article/report-obama-camp-soliciting-donations-from-china-vietnam-other-countries


I posted the facts.. The cited report also implicates the Romney campaign..  Your failure is in depending on your heavily biased news sources to give you the complete picture..
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