Quote from: Bowhntr on October 26, 2014, 04:52:45 PM
But you are more that welcome to pick up an M-16 and go put our life on the line at age 18???

That's right. That's how it worked for a couple hundred years, until 1971. My father joined the Navy at age 17 in 1943 and was 8,000 miles from home fighting those "little yellow men" six months after he swore in. Three years later, when he finally got on the train to go home, he still didn't have the right -- or the life skills or the education or the wisdom -- to vote.

The argument you present was on the lips of every hippie in 1968, but think about this a little more deeply. A child can be carefully and rigidly trained to handle a firearm and hit a target (I was such a child), and an 18-year-old can be carefully and rigidly trained to work as part of a team to carry out the military aims of his country. But there is no boot camp for voting. It's a case of apples and asparagus; they are not the same, or even similar, or actually related in any way except politically -- in the form of one-liner bumper sticker slogans.

In fact, it is the aim of the union-based education establishment and the Democrat Party (oops, I repeat myself) to see that anything that might pass for "voter education" is simply never presented in schools. In other words, there will NEVER be a boot camp for voters, because those who depend on children to get them elected will see to it.

Quote from: TboneAgain on October 28, 2014, 02:07:37 AM
That's right. That's how it worked for a couple hundred years, until 1971. My father joined the Navy at age 17 in 1943 and was 8,000 miles from home fighting those "little yellow men" six months after he swore in. Three years later, when he finally got on the train to go home, he still didn't have the right -- or the life skills or the education or the wisdom -- to vote.

The argument you present was on the lips of every hippie in 1968, but think about this a little more deeply. A child can be carefully and rigidly trained to handle a firearm and hit a target (I was such a child), and an 18-year-old can be carefully and rigidly trained to work as part of a team to carry out the military aims of his country. But there is no boot camp for voting. It's a case of apples and asparagus; they are not the same, or even similar, or actually related in any way except politically -- in the form of one-liner bumper sticker slogans.

In fact, it is the aim of the union-based education establishment and the Democrat Party (oops, I repeat myself) to see that anything that might pass for "voter education" is simply never presented in schools. In other words, there will NEVER be a boot camp for voters, because those who depend on children to get them elected will see to it.

Sooo damn true. I was 18, voted for Nixon, had no idea what he wanted for the country, or how his ideology fit in my life, all I knew was that McGovern advocated for everything in opposition to our Founding ideals of right and wrong, had he been a slick tongued Devil, I very easily could have voted for him, I was essentially ignorant of life (The paradigm of tool, the quintessential mindless clean slate useful idiot liberal) .

In other words, I was a stupid kid given the opportunity of deciding the fate of our Nation, and I had no clue and hated the responsibility placed upon me, I had yet to leave my block where I was reared as a child, and in all respects to wisdom related chronology, was still that of a burgeoning toddler.

We, as conservatives, have to find ways to erode the monolithic hold the Dems have on certain groups.

Blacks, Hispanics, unmarried women, Millennials.   Each has an opportunity to erode the margin.

We should push school choice in urban areas.   This a winner with black (and other) parents

Push deregulation to promote job growth.   This is an across-the-board winner, but young people of all races are being hammered by unemployment.

I see no problem with making the Pill an over-the-counter medication.   Reduce the hostility from unmarried women who want a career more than a family (for now.)

None of these would be a silver bullet, but if we could lure 10% of each group under our Big Tent, the Democrats margin reverses.

If we don't, the Dems are right.   Demographics will become destiny.

Quote from: Solar on October 28, 2014, 05:19:20 AM
Sooo damn true. I was 18, voted for Nixon, had no idea what he wanted for the country, or how his ideology fit in my life, all I knew was that McGovern advocated for everything in opposition to our Founding ideals of right and wrong, had he been a slick tongued Devil, I very easily could have voted for him, I was essentially ignorant of life (The paradigm of tool, the quintessential mindless clean slate useful idiot liberal) .

In other words, I was a stupid kid given the opportunity of deciding the fate of our Nation, and I had no clue and hated the responsibility placed upon me, I had yet to leave my block where I was reared as a child, and in all respects to wisdom related chronology, was still that of a burgeoning toddler.

Yep.

The 26th Amendment was the last of the "beat/hippie" group of four that passed between 1961 and 1971. And the drumbeat back then was just as Bowhntr presented it: "But you are more that welcome to pick up an M-16 and go put our life on the line at age 18???" Sometimes the idea just doesn't go any deeper than a bumper sticker, and I think that was one of those times.

Quote from: TboneAgain on October 28, 2014, 11:13:01 AM
Yep.

The 26th Amendment was the last of the "beat/hippie" group of four that passed between 1961 and 1971. And the drumbeat back then was just as Bowhntr presented it: "But you are more that welcome to pick up an M-16 and go put our life on the line at age 18???" Sometimes the idea just doesn't go any deeper than a bumper sticker, and I think that was one of those times.

Hindsight, being the genius in demonstrable fact, we should have simply eliminated the draft...

Quote from: Solar on October 28, 2014, 11:55:14 AM
Hindsight, being the genius in demonstrable fact, we should have simply eliminated the draft...

... or institute mandatory national military service for every able-bodied graduate of high school, college be damned.

A black wake-up?

Chicago Activists Unchained, Destroy Black Leadership

Also the Hispanics are waking up

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/10/28/hispanics-on-a-gop-senate-sure-why-not/

Conservatives have to engage or die.   

We can whittle into the lopsided margins.   A few percent switch.   A few percent stay home.

Quote from: Taxcutter on October 28, 2014, 09:30:14 AM
We, as conservatives, have to find ways to erode the monolithic hold the Dems have on certain groups.

We do that by being conservative.

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Blacks, Hispanics, unmarried women, Millennials.   Each has an opportunity to erode the margin.

We appeal to all free people.  Leave the demographics to the libs and Marxists.

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We should push school choice in urban areas.

It's called "freedom".

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   This a winner with black (and other) parents

Push deregulation to promote job growth.   This is an across-the-board winner, but young people of all races are being hammered by unemployment.

I see no problem with making the Pill an over-the-counter medication.   Reduce the hostility from unmarried women who want a career more than a family (for now.)

None of these would be a silver bullet, but if we could lure 10% of each group under our Big Tent, the Democrats margin reverses.

If we don't, the Dems are right.   Demographics will become destiny.

Wrong.  We lead by example.  Dems aren't right about anything, except about knowing how to destroy a country and our liberties.  We don't have a tent.  We have people who believe in liberty, and those who don't.  For the ones who don't, Mars One is taking applicants for the first human travel to Mars.

Conservatives don't need opportunities. It's the RINOS that need the life raft.

Negative, dude.

The Dems and MSM have gotten black, Hispanics, unmarried women, and Millennials confused.

These groups honestly think that conservatives stand for the KKK, Mexican lettuce pickers, barefoot & pregnant women and no jobs for anybody under 40.   The reality is that this is a better description of the Dems than conservative.

Just because you and I know the difference cuts no ice.   We have to explicitly and clearly make our case to these groups.   Otherwise the Dems will define our beliefs to these people.

For all his faults GW Bush was stronger than the average Republican among blacks and Hispanics.   In fact, he is revered in Africa (something that drives Hussein Obama nuts).

In the business world, when somebody has a high-profit operation going his competitors see it and say: "Why can't I get a piece of that action?

We should look at the Dems' 9:1 advantage with blacks, 2:1 advantage with Hispanics, 3:2 advantage with unmarried women, and 55-45 advantage with Millennials and say: "Why can we get a piece of that action?"

Just being ourselves ain't a good enough sales technique.

It is unrealistic to think we could get all of these by 2016, but if you could cut the margins to 8:1, 3:2, 55-45, and 50-50, we win elections easily.

While we are at it we have to make cl;ear to the remnants of blue collar unions that over-regulation is a major reason their numbers have dwindled.   Democrat are the party of over-regulation.

The 2016 campaign begins on November 5.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on October 28, 2014, 07:27:28 PM
Conservatives don't need opportunities. It's the RINOS that need the life raft.

Can we float RINOs to Cuba, for all that great ebola health care?

Quote from: Taxcutter on October 29, 2014, 08:35:09 AM


Just being ourselves ain't a good enough sales technique.


The 2016 campaign begins on November 5.

This is all I've been saying.  Need more effort than we've made historically.  Even if we can win with little or no effort, if it's that historic a social & political shift.......why not put in the big effort and bury them twice as deep  ?

It's like the better team having a 7-point lead in the 3rd quarter, and choosing to go 3-and-out every time they have the ball, so sure they're gonna win.

A lot of teams that haven't learned to put the other team away, lose a lot of games like this.  Happens to the damned Titans every week these days.

Quote from: Taxcutter on October 29, 2014, 08:35:09 AM
Negative, dude.

The Dems and MSM have gotten black, Hispanics, unmarried women, and Millennials confused.

Who cares?  Pandering to demographics are for stupid people who have no real values or dignity.

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These groups honestly think that conservatives stand for the KKK,

Who cares?

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Mexican lettuce pickers, barefoot & pregnant women and no jobs for anybody under 40.

There will always be stupid people.  Lowering our intellect and becoming stupid doesn't make stupidity go away.

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   The reality is that this is a better description of the Dems than conservative.

Just because you and I know the difference cuts no ice.   We have to explicitly and clearly make our case to these groups.   Otherwise the Dems will define our beliefs to these people.

If your point was "The GOP needs to adopt conservative values and spread the message to all Americans", then yes, I agree.  The exact same message I'd say to a room full of latinos is the exact same I'd say to a room full of Blacks.  Our message cuts through race and demographics and appeals to everyone.  The GOP needs to get the message straight in general and accept conservative principals.

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For all his faults GW Bush was stronger than the average Republican among blacks and Hispanics.   In fact, he is revered in Africa (something that drives Hussein Obama nuts).

In the business world, when somebody has a high-profit operation going his competitors see it and say: "Why can't I get a piece of that action?

Leading by example is what works.  You are also caught up in the false reporting that Dems own these demographics.  There are way more blacks and latinos who are conservative than you think.

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We should look at the Dems' 9:1 advantage with blacks,

No we shouldn't.

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2:1 advantage with Hispanics,

No we shouldn't.

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3:2 advantage with unmarried women,

[/quote]
No we shouldn't.

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and 55-45 advantage with Millennials and say: "Why can we get a piece of that action?"

No we shouldn't.  We need to do a better job of spreading the conservative message to all Americans, and one way to do this is to adopt lead by example as conservatives, and support conservatives in office and not reward scum like McConnell and Cochran.

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Just being ourselves ain't a good enough sales technique.

Yes it is.  The GOP ain't "being ourselves".

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It is unrealistic to think we could get all of these by 2016, but if you could cut the margins to 8:1, 3:2, 55-45, and 50-50, we win elections easily.

Don't worry your pretty little brain about 2016.  Let's purge some Marxists from the GOP this election.

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While we are at it we have to make cl;ear to the remnants of blue collar unions that over-regulation is a major reason their numbers have dwindled.   Democrat are the party of over-regulation.

That isn't a "while we are at it".  That is part of the conservative message.  Exposing and educating others on the parasites who are hosted by the earners is something we do to everyone, and not a particular segment or demographic.  This message is related to free markets.

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The 2016 campaign begins on November 5.

The next leg in us turning the ship around begins November 5.