You misunderstand still.

No...I understand it far better than you.

I never said anything about advocating change of the constitution.

By extension of your argument, you do.
Read carefully and try and absorb what I say.

  I also said there were gays who do not care to change the definition of marriage, and don't care for it, and that I don't agree with gay marriage myself-but its not up to me or anyone else to dictate who can marry who. The people who want to change the definition of marriage, and by extension the constitution, are left-wing activist- who want to poke the religious right, and just don't care about the constitution in general, just like many on the right don't. If tomorrow every member of the Republican party fully supported civil unions, and states deciding the issue of marriage- the left would be shocked, some very happy- but the fringe group activist would still rage, because they want the definition changed, to again upset the religious right. They have a strong hatred for good tradition that promotes noble behavior, and values.. They are evil.

Stepping aside, or dictating?
There is a huge difference here. I have no issue if the Pubs step aside on the issue, I just don't see the need to support an action to benefit less than 1% of the Nation.

Sarah Palin as governor, actually vetoed a bill which would have prevented same sex couples, from receiving their partner's benefits. Unfortunately there are too many Republicans like Santorum (or Republicans afraid to upset the religious right), who wouldn't acknowledge the union of a same sex couple- which he said during the primaries. Therefore a same sex couple would not be entitled to their partner's benefits and such, all because of what he believes religiously- he even didn't like the idea of states deciding on the issue.. He's wrong. This is what I'm talking about; not changing the constitution. And the Republicans who do support civil unions, and would acknowledge a union between a same sex couple- get trashed by the religious right. They get called "rinos" or "lefties", which ultimately makes the Republican party and modern conservatives, look like a political church- and its hurting the party more and more.

Really? Show me, because no one on this forum ever said such a thing.
I find that very hard to believe, because I support civil unions, just don't define it as marriage.

And even if the gay left wing activist get what they want, in changing the definition- which I think they will, since Republicans are horrible at explaining issues. It doesn't force me to do anything different in my life. It doesn't pick my pocket, change my faith, hurt me or anyone I love, nor the country- so I don't care on that issue

.

But it does affect you, it requires an amendment to the Constitution.
 

If you're one of those people who think god will punish America for allowing gay marriage, then you believe we are to be judged as a collective group, a nation, a church or religious group- and not as individuals.

In truth, God has nothing to do with civil unions, but on the other hand, it has everything to do with marriage from a Religious point.

Does the Fed have the right to interfere with the dictates of the First Amendment?
Using your argument, you are advocating for a Constitutional Amendment to the First.

Now do you get it?

No.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That is saying that the government shall not infringe on people practicing their religion. But it also says that " congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Meaning no particular religion shall be the rule of the land and dictate what government policy is.

You claiming marriage is a religious ceremony or word doesn't concern the government.

If gays want to get get married in their own churches and call it marriage, you have no right to claim the "word". The government should treat everyone equally.

No separate and equal.

You claiming the government is infringing on your first amendment because they want gays to have the right to get married is crazy.

It's like saying Muslims should be allowed to kill their wives if they cheat on them, otherwise it would be against the first amendment.

prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Marriage has always been an Religious practice, it is only recently that the Federal Govt got involved.
Fed dictating rules of marriage is an interference in a Religious institution.

Tell me, if you were to wed, would you go to a Federal Govt for a license, or a County/state office?

It's a states rights issue, not a Fed!

I lived in Santa Cruz for 11 years, and got to know quite a few gays and lesbians. My girlfriend at the time was in the landscaping/nursery business, and gay people were just part of the scene.

I don't think a lot of people realize that there are subcultures within the gay community. The gays that would be interested in forming long term legal relationships, tend to be typical working, normal people, in all respects. They don't seek the limelight, and just want to live their lives...........................much like most conservatives.

Unfortunately, the gay community also draws people that have other psychological issues going on. The pedophiles, sex addicts, and heavy drug users. These are the ones that make the news..................and therefore, the ones by whom others base their opinions of gays.

From what I understand from talking to gays, there isn't a choice in the matter. It's who they are. Not much different than if I was to wake up tomorrow morning and still be exactly who I am, but wrapped inside a female body. It sounds like torture.

I still have a problem with gays in the military. To place gays in units that are comprised of other people that are the natural, (for them), object of sexual desire, will cause problems. Particularly on long deployments, where it becomes necessary to forget about sex.
Here's an analogy on my feeling about gays in the military.........................
Suppose a group of men, 40-50 years old, decided to start a baby sitting network. None had done anything wrong, and all had clean background checks. They just happen to like kids.

I don't care how good their records are, there is no way in hell that I would leave my 5 year old daughter with one of those men. Does that mean I hate men? No. Could it be called prejudice? Sure it could. But the potential of abuse to my daugher, even if it's .000001 in a million, is not worth the risk.

You started off good, but then the rest of your statements took a giant nosedive, due to ignorance.

I've lived around gay people myself, (especially when I lived in Europe),  three of my best friends are gay, that would be my older brother, a man I served with in the military, and my brother's partner, who ran a 12 and a half year study on the entire issue, to which I learned some very interesting stuff.

gay men like the people I mentioned (and learned there are quite a lot of em), while they have no shame acknowledging that they are gay, meaning they do not hate themselves. They strongly detest gay culture. They find it disgusting, depressing, destructive, disrespectful, and degrading. The gays who are conservative, and do believe in god, and do hold on to noble values- get trashed all the time by the larger majority who are quite leftist. So they do not associate with them, you won't find them in gay clubs, bars, or gay pride... Unfortunately they also get a lot of crap from ignorant wankers on the right as well. While disappointing to them (and to me), they are strong- and don't go flailing about like a crybaby leftist. They keep quiet and keep to themselves.

As far as gays in the military goes... The man I served with, was a damn good soldier- and had everyone's respect. His sexuality was non existent on our minds, especially when I almost got killed, and he was one of the people pulling me to safety. Its mostly the higher ups who get their panties in the knot about gays in the military, but while I do respect their position, they don't mean much to me, because they don't go through the same things guys out in the field do, and I certainly don't care for the opinion of someone who hasn't served and flaps off at the mouth about gays in the military, or disrespects a soldier because he is gay- yet thinks of himself as a patriot- to me, they are garbage. The man I served with, also viewed us as his brothers, so the thought of any kind of sexual activity or thought, would have simply grossed him out, aside from that- anyone would have thought we were all gay, with the horseplay and jokes we'd all do lol.... He also had no problem doing his job, or any problem with his sexuality save for the fact he had to be careful to not let other morons who'd  probably want to get him kicked out, learn he was gay- by either getting a letter, phone call, or email from his partner (this was before DADT was repealed).

There are gays in the military in Europe, and gays in the Israeli military as well- and no problems. And you're not supposed to be having sex in the military or look at porn regardless of your sexuality- bigger issue with male/female, due to the possibility of pregnancy. Its highly unprofessional to be getting into that. I missed my girl a lot, as did other guys. I didn't sneak to go find a female to mess about with, nor did he seek to mess about with anyone.


The last bit about the whole daughter thing, was really sad. Child molestation has nothing to do with someone's sexuality. Its about someone who has no kind of control over their life,(regardless of sexuality)- and feels that control and power- when they are in control of a child. Some have a perverted fascination with the innocence of children- boy, girl, or both. Then some are re-enacting abuse that was put upon them at some point in their life. I wouldn't leave my child with anyone who I didn't know and trust.

Your statements is exactly what makes conservatism, and the Republican party look bad- too judgmental, ignorant, hateful even. And then conservatives are shocked and surprised elections get lost. If this attitude and mentality remains popular within the party, just get used to the reality that George Bush Jr, was the last president of the Republican party.

Bingo

However, gays want it to be a fed issue partly because they want to be able to marry a foreign person of the same sex and go through Immigration to get that person a green card or fiance visa.

ROFL ! That sounds exactly like Rush Limbaugh ...

You started off good, but then the rest of your statements took a giant nosedive, due to ignorance.

I've lived around gay people myself, (especially when I lived in Europe),  three of my best friends are gay, that would be my older brother, a man I served with in the military, and my brother's partner, who ran a 12 and a half year study on the entire issue, to which I learned some very interesting stuff.

I have gay family members as well, and have been around gays for my adult life.  They have been employees, friends, and business associates.

gay men like the people I mentioned (and learned there are quite a lot of em), while they have no shame acknowledging that they are gay, meaning they do not hate themselves. They strongly detest gay culture. They find it disgusting, depressing, destructive, disrespectful, and degrading.

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.  It's true on a small scale, but not the gay culture over-all.

The gays who are conservative, and do believe in god, and do hold on to noble values- get trashed all the time by the larger majority who are quite leftist. So they do not associate with them, you won't find them in gay clubs, bars, or gay pride... Unfortunately they also get a lot of crap from ignorant wankers on the right as well. While disappointing to them (and to me), they are strong- and don't go flailing about like a crybaby leftist. They keep quiet and keep to themselves.

Conservatives just don't care about gay people, until they start trying to push legislation and being gay in public.

As far as gays in the military goes... The man I served with, was a damn good soldier- and had everyone's respect. His sexuality was non existent on our minds, especially when I almost got killed, and he was one of the people pulling me to safety. Its mostly the higher ups who get their panties in the knot about gays in the military, but while I do respect their position, they don't mean much to me, because they don't go through the same things guys out in the field do, and I certainly don't care for the opinion of someone who hasn't served and flaps off at the mouth about gays in the military, or disrespects a soldier because he is gay- yet thinks of himself as a patriot- to me, they are garbage. The man I served with, also viewed us as his brothers, so the thought of any kind of sexual activity or thought, would have simply grossed him out, aside from that- anyone would have thought we were all gay, with the horseplay and jokes we'd all do lol.... He also had no problem doing his job, or any problem with his sexuality save for the fact he had to be careful to not let other morons who'd  probably want to get him kicked out, learn he was gay- by either getting a letter, phone call, or email from his partner (this was before DADT was repealed).

My uncle was a gay soldier.  Still, gays shouldn't be in the military.  You are clueless.

There are gays in the military in Europe, and gays in the Israeli military as well- and no problems. And you're not supposed to be having sex in the military or look at porn regardless of your sexuality- bigger issue with male/female, due to the possibility of pregnancy. Its highly unprofessional to be getting into that. I missed my girl a lot, as did other guys. I didn't sneak to go find a female to mess about with, nor did he seek to mess about with anyone.

Sorry, guys can't concentrate when there is a nice piece of ass in front of us.  It's called "nature".

The last bit about the whole daughter thing, was really sad. Child molestation has nothing to do with someone's sexuality. Its about someone who has no kind of control over their life,(regardless of sexuality)- and feels that control and power- when they are in control of a child. Some have a perverted fascination with the innocence of children- boy, girl, or both. Then some are re-enacting abuse that was put upon them at some point in their life. I wouldn't leave my child with anyone who I didn't know and trust.

Are you moving goalposts now?

Your statements is exactly what makes conservatism, and the Republican party look bad- too judgmental, ignorant, hateful even. And then conservatives are shocked and surprised elections get lost. If this attitude and mentality remains popular within the party, just get used to the reality that George Bush Jr, was the last president of the Republican party.

Wrong.  It has to do with low information voters -- not a stance of the Republican party.  I don't support gay marriage, and it is a state issue.  Tell me, how am I at odds with the gay community?

ROFL ! That sounds exactly like Rush Limbaugh ...

If you spent any time in Thailand and saw all the American's trying to get their Thai "Lady Boy's" a fiance Visa for the States you'd probably
understand.

Billy

The Left claims that the Republican Party is not a big tent and they need to be more "inclusive" but at the same time there is one group (actually 2) that they want thrown out of the Republican "big tent."  That would be Conservatives and Christians--If you're both, you have no business being in the Republican Party according to the Left and even the Republican establishment.