Kramarat,Your fears for your daughter would be justified and the problem you refer to becomes even more worrisome when she starts to school. This is my biggest fear for our children, that they become indoctrinated to values that we don't approve of.
You misunderstand still.
I never said anything about advocating change of the constitution.
I also said there were gays who do not care to change the definition of marriage, and don't care for it, and that I don't agree with gay marriage myself-but its not up to me or anyone else to dictate who can marry who. The people who want to change the definition of marriage, and by extension the constitution, are left-wing activist- who want to poke the religious right, and just don't care about the constitution in general, just like many on the right don't. If tomorrow every member of the Republican party fully supported civil unions, and states deciding the issue of marriage- the left would be shocked, some very happy- but the fringe group activist would still rage, because they want the definition changed, to again upset the religious right. They have a strong hatred for good tradition that promotes noble behavior, and values.. They are evil.
Sarah Palin as governor, actually vetoed a bill which would have prevented same sex couples, from receiving their partner's benefits. Unfortunately there are too many Republicans like Santorum (or Republicans afraid to upset the religious right), who wouldn't acknowledge the union of a same sex couple- which he said during the primaries. Therefore a same sex couple would not be entitled to their partner's benefits and such, all because of what he believes religiously- he even didn't like the idea of states deciding on the issue.. He's wrong. This is what I'm talking about; not changing the constitution. And the Republicans who do support civil unions, and would acknowledge a union between a same sex couple- get trashed by the religious right. They get called "rinos" or "lefties", which ultimately makes the Republican party and modern conservatives, look like a political church- and its hurting the party more and more.
And even if the gay left wing activist get what they want, in changing the definition- which I think they will, since Republicans are horrible at explaining issues. It doesn't force me to do anything different in my life. It doesn't pick my pocket, change my faith, hurt me or anyone I love, nor the country- so I don't care on that issue
If you're one of those people who think god will punish America for allowing gay marriage, then you believe we are to be judged as a collective group, a nation, a church or religious group- and not as individuals.
Now do you get it?
No."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."That is saying that the government shall not infringe on people practicing their religion. But it also says that " congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Meaning no particular religion shall be the rule of the land and dictate what government policy is. You claiming marriage is a religious ceremony or word doesn't concern the government. If gays want to get get married in their own churches and call it marriage, you have no right to claim the "word". The government should treat everyone equally. No separate and equal. You claiming the government is infringing on your first amendment because they want gays to have the right to get married is crazy. It's like saying Muslims should be allowed to kill their wives if they cheat on them, otherwise it would be against the first amendment.
It's a states rights issue, not a Fed!
I lived in Santa Cruz for 11 years, and got to know quite a few gays and lesbians. My girlfriend at the time was in the landscaping/nursery business, and gay people were just part of the scene.I don't think a lot of people realize that there are subcultures within the gay community. The gays that would be interested in forming long term legal relationships, tend to be typical working, normal people, in all respects. They don't seek the limelight, and just want to live their lives...........................much like most conservatives.Unfortunately, the gay community also draws people that have other psychological issues going on. The pedophiles, sex addicts, and heavy drug users. These are the ones that make the news..................and therefore, the ones by whom others base their opinions of gays.From what I understand from talking to gays, there isn't a choice in the matter. It's who they are. Not much different than if I was to wake up tomorrow morning and still be exactly who I am, but wrapped inside a female body. It sounds like torture.I still have a problem with gays in the military. To place gays in units that are comprised of other people that are the natural, (for them), object of sexual desire, will cause problems. Particularly on long deployments, where it becomes necessary to forget about sex.Here's an analogy on my feeling about gays in the military.........................Suppose a group of men, 40-50 years old, decided to start a baby sitting network. None had done anything wrong, and all had clean background checks. They just happen to like kids.I don't care how good their records are, there is no way in hell that I would leave my 5 year old daughter with one of those men. Does that mean I hate men? No. Could it be called prejudice? Sure it could. But the potential of abuse to my daugher, even if it's .000001 in a million, is not worth the risk.
prohibiting the free exercise thereofMarriage has always been an Religious practice, it is only recently that the Federal Govt got involved.Fed dictating rules of marriage is an interference in a Religious institution.Tell me, if you were to wed, would you go to a Federal Govt for a license, or a County/state office?It's a states rights issue, not a Fed!
BingoHowever, gays want it to be a fed issue partly because they want to be able to marry a foreign person of the same sex and go through Immigration to get that person a green card or fiance visa.
...Your statements is exactly what makes conservatism, and the Republican party look bad- too judgmental, ignorant, hateful even. And then conservatives are shocked and surprised elections get lost. If this attitude and mentality remains popular within the party, just get used to the reality that George Bush Jr, was the last president of the Republican party.
You started off good, but then the rest of your statements took a giant nosedive, due to ignorance.I've lived around gay people myself, (especially when I lived in Europe), three of my best friends are gay, that would be my older brother, a man I served with in the military, and my brother's partner, who ran a 12 and a half year study on the entire issue, to which I learned some very interesting stuff.
gay men like the people I mentioned (and learned there are quite a lot of em), while they have no shame acknowledging that they are gay, meaning they do not hate themselves. They strongly detest gay culture. They find it disgusting, depressing, destructive, disrespectful, and degrading.
The gays who are conservative, and do believe in god, and do hold on to noble values- get trashed all the time by the larger majority who are quite leftist. So they do not associate with them, you won't find them in gay clubs, bars, or gay pride... Unfortunately they also get a lot of crap from ignorant wankers on the right as well. While disappointing to them (and to me), they are strong- and don't go flailing about like a crybaby leftist. They keep quiet and keep to themselves.
As far as gays in the military goes... The man I served with, was a damn good soldier- and had everyone's respect. His sexuality was non existent on our minds, especially when I almost got killed, and he was one of the people pulling me to safety. Its mostly the higher ups who get their panties in the knot about gays in the military, but while I do respect their position, they don't mean much to me, because they don't go through the same things guys out in the field do, and I certainly don't care for the opinion of someone who hasn't served and flaps off at the mouth about gays in the military, or disrespects a soldier because he is gay- yet thinks of himself as a patriot- to me, they are garbage. The man I served with, also viewed us as his brothers, so the thought of any kind of sexual activity or thought, would have simply grossed him out, aside from that- anyone would have thought we were all gay, with the horseplay and jokes we'd all do lol.... He also had no problem doing his job, or any problem with his sexuality save for the fact he had to be careful to not let other morons who'd probably want to get him kicked out, learn he was gay- by either getting a letter, phone call, or email from his partner (this was before DADT was repealed).
There are gays in the military in Europe, and gays in the Israeli military as well- and no problems. And you're not supposed to be having sex in the military or look at porn regardless of your sexuality- bigger issue with male/female, due to the possibility of pregnancy. Its highly unprofessional to be getting into that. I missed my girl a lot, as did other guys. I didn't sneak to go find a female to mess about with, nor did he seek to mess about with anyone.
The last bit about the whole daughter thing, was really sad. Child molestation has nothing to do with someone's sexuality. Its about someone who has no kind of control over their life,(regardless of sexuality)- and feels that control and power- when they are in control of a child. Some have a perverted fascination with the innocence of children- boy, girl, or both. Then some are re-enacting abuse that was put upon them at some point in their life. I wouldn't leave my child with anyone who I didn't know and trust.
Your statements is exactly what makes conservatism, and the Republican party look bad- too judgmental, ignorant, hateful even. And then conservatives are shocked and surprised elections get lost. If this attitude and mentality remains popular within the party, just get used to the reality that George Bush Jr, was the last president of the Republican party.
ROFL ! That sounds exactly like Rush Limbaugh ...
This conversation/debate is 6 pages running and no closure. The last forum I participated in ran this topic for over 500 pages with no closure unless you call the several posters that were banned forever from posting. There is, however, a civilness in this discussion that I never did witness on the other forum. Something might get accomplished here with the obvious hurdle overcome, if it's only the position in agreeing to disagree and remaining respectful of each other's opinion. I have to be watchful in what I say here to be able to continue on this forum, so i'll make it brief. My position in this discussion is that of religious moral right so this will be my last reply on this issue. Everyone is free to believe in whatever they want to but no one is free to dictate to another human being-anything. That is the reason this discussion will have no meaningful closure. When laws are cooked up and served out, it means that some will not be happy with their already full plate.To the gay or gay supporter. A great part of your debate is that you see no wrong in such behavior as long as it doesn't harm or influence others, take money from your pockets, and so on. You want to be treated exactly equal, so you say. Well, I say to you that alot of laws on the books concerning behaviors will have to be changed. Schools will have to further indoctrinate our children to get this going for you. Laws have already been ammended to allow domestic partners the right of survivorship. We have churches that are supposed to preach and teach against sin that are redefining what sin is and trotting gays and lesbians out to preach their definition of Christianity. It is as if God means nothing to some people and as He gives me breath, i'll stand with Him. I don't appreciate being called not informed on this subject. Fact is, I have a good handle on the subject, enough that I refuse to accept any argument that leans towards accepting the gay lifestyle as normal. As far as being born that way, some were and some weren't. Then, some were born predestined to be serial killers and some weren't. We were all born in sin. That's what being reborn is all about and we are warned about this in His word, to seek wisdom and understanding EARLY in our lives. Everyone has not had the same advantages to learning but if you can read, you have the same opportunity as the rest of us. Some of us had poor advantages in our early lives, predisposing us to behaviors that are not widely accepted. But, we have all been subject to people and circumstances that could have helped us to become good people. I do not run into any gays or their supporters that respect the freedom that I exercise in calling their lifestyle sinful. Matter of fact and per this discussion, we are being persuaded to accept this behavior as something we wouldn't mind our children becoming in their future. To those not caving in to this socialist, markist, very liberal and evil behavior-Stand Fast.