On the gay issue which divides our party

Started by Skeptic, December 02, 2012, 04:02:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Paladin

One of the reasons why its always so easy for me to crush left-wingers, and right-wings in any topic, is because none of them actually think. They just react with their mouths due to emotion- which makes them appear irrational and ignorant.

Quote from: kramarat on December 14, 2012, 03:12:52 AMDid you notice that when I mentioned men getting into the child care business, (despite the fact that I said that they had clean records and had never done anything wrong), Paladin jumped to the conclusion that they were child molesters? Interesting, huh?

I jumped to that conclusion, because you've already displayed enough ignorance- for me to believe you'd think anyone who is gay likes molesting children, and many people on the right already think that ridiculous rubbish... So no, not very interesting.

Then when you cleared it up, I not only thought it was still a silly thing to even mention, but also completely irrelevant... Gay, Straight, male, female, young, old, you better have a clear damn record if you're going in child care business, or better be on the up and up if nobody knows about whatever bad things you've done in your past. I'm not a prude, and believe in second chances- if one truly wants one.

Quote from: kramarat on December 14, 2012, 03:12:52 AMOur military is comprised primarily of kids in their late teens and early twenties.
I think I can safely say that people that age think about sex a lot. Particularly when around others that are the object of their sexual attraction.
If I had been placed in a company of women during my military days, 24/7, and often on long deployments, I can assure you, that being around women all the time would have had me thinking about sex constantly.
Are you telling me that homosexuals have no sexual urges toward others of the same sex? If so, please link the evidence.

Ok this is pretty silly, sorry it its just really silly.

I don't know if you've ever been in the military, and if you have certainly not in today's military (though there always have been gays, and sex). I began my military life at 18, (28 now)- and let me tell you what I saw, and or heard.

First of all, gay or straight; you're not supposed to be having sex in the military- its just not very professional- and even more of an issue if its male/female due to pregnancy reasons. However people are people, and some people fuck up. And if you think some men (straight, but just wanted sex) didn't get off with another man before women were allowed to really serve, then you are living in a fantasy world lol.

There was a guy who was messing about with a female soldier (they got the boot), there were men who'd actually mess about with civil females (in Iraq/Afghanistan... Gross). There were men who identified as straight, wife and kids- or had girlfriend... But would want sex so bad (a blow job), and would actually get that from another male soldier (and receive one too, aka "bros helping bros")- this was always kept on "the DL" or "down low", though jokes would fly about  toward anyone suspected of this sort of behavior. This is all over in Iraq/Afghanistan. If you were on base in the States, or in Germany- then you'd have soldiers naturally mess about with female prostitutes (not all soldiers did this), or some random chick (again not all)- and I'm more than sure the gays that nobody knew about, also messed about... However there are a lot of soldiers who really take pride in professionalism, and don't mess about with anyone- period.

But you also had men, who may have not wanted to be in the military anymore, and wanted to get kicked out. Soooo they'd end up doing porn- gay porn at that since the money would be better. Then there are some guys who'd actually get money for receiving a blow job, from another guy- so they'd do that (on the DL of course).. These guys didn't identify as gay, meaning they were not emotionally and physically attracted to men... But they sure as hell liked money, and maybe getting their knob polished in the process. I had gotten many offers from gay German civilians, or would have someone try to talk me into doing a porn- so I know it happens.

The horseplay that took place with the guys in my unit, and with other soldiers- would make anyone think they stepped into a bad gay porn film. I even have photos taken of the goofery that was shared with friends back home on my fight team- for a good laugh- that if they were ever posted up on Facebook or so, would  get me fired from my teaching job- hell I'd even get fired if I had a photo posted of me with alcohol... Some guys however would put such photos online, only to get in trouble for it in their civilian job (depending on what it is of course)

The guy in my unit who is gay, was very quite professional, and was one of those guys who didn't want to cheat on his partner, and mess about with someone else (gay straight, bi, tri whatever.). When it came out that he was gay, and we were all asking him questions about how it was to be gay. One of the guys asked if he thought any of us were hot, would he have sex with any of us back home. His reply was "gross fuck no, you guys are like my brothers". The guy who asked, was jokingly offend, thinking the gay guy  thought we were all ugly or something, he was also our superior.

The things I'm reading about gays in the military, or what I hear- really crack me up. Because the biggest opposition comes from people who have never been in the military, and then they're surprised when the learned that people in the military largely didn't and don't give a crap who is gay. At the same time, I find it really disrespectful to the American military. I was born and lived for awhile in Israel, then lived in Europe... There are gays in the military there, and women, and there are no problems. So basically you're saying American soldiers are so simple minded, that this issue would be something heavy on their mind- that would disrupt their task. This is the kind of stuff, that makes the right look dumb.

Quote from: kramarat on December 14, 2012, 03:12:52 AMMy point has nothing to do with a bias against homosexuals. How do you suppose it would work out if heterosexual men and women shared sleeping and showering facilities, particularly on long, lonely deployments? I don't think you can honestly tell me that a bunch of 20 somethings wouldn't have problems.

I never said, nor thought anyone so far had any bias, or hate towards homosexuals. However what I've been reading, from many on here- displays a lot of ignorance. Ignorance and hate are not the same things. You can be ignorant of the laws in another country, or ignorant of the feelings of another person- doesn't mean you hate them; it just means you're heavily prone in doing or saying something stupid- which is what I'm seeing in here.

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they want to have sex with every male that passes them by. I don't want to have sex with every female that comes my way- and when I was in the military even if I was showering with females, I wouldn't have done anything, because I wanted to remain faithful to my girl, aside from that- being that everyone in my family was in the military, there was a lot of pride and honor and respect for professionalism... That's just me, and of course there are many other soldiers gay or straight who think like me.

Nobody in here (who disagrees with you), is pushing a gay agenda, or anything leftist. We just understand that...

1. Not every single gay person behaves the same way, or wants what mainstream gay culture or left-wing ideology pushes.


2. Not every gay person is a leftist, there are gays out there who are conservative, and favor keeping our countries traditions and values, and do not ever wear their sexuality on their sleeve, as they know their sexuality doesn't define who they are as a person- rather their character and heart... Unfortunately from some of the things I'm reading in here- there are people who think they do... Again ignorance.

3. There is way too many members within the Republican party, who handle this issue in such a tactless way, it makes them very outdated, and foolish- not to mention provides easy ammo for the left- who makes them look stupid more and more about it.

There are Republicans who are ok with civil unions, and wouldn't keep a gay couple from receiving their partner's benefits-but of course they get called "rino" by the idiots... there are many Republicans who are not ok with civil unions, and if a gay person had one, or was married in a gay accepting church, would not acknowledge the union, and therefore would not allow the couple any rights to benefits and such... This is wrong, and its also hurting the party, and the religious right, and those who make right-wing ideology their religion, are foolishly not seeing the damage this is doing, which will get bigger come the next generation. This is what I'm talking about, not about changing any definitions of marriage or the constitution, because you don't need to, not about people needing to accept homosexuality, or gay marriage, because you don't have to. Just leave these people alone, and don't get in their way with what goes on in their relationship. If I were gay, and I died, I'd want my partner to receive my benefits. Rick Santorum and other morons like him, however don't think so.

There are Democrats who don't like the socialist left direction the Democratic party has seriously really gone into. They keep warning how its going to hurt the party, and when things fall apart economically and we have a Greece moment (and we will), the Democratic party is going to be severely damaged. At the same time people will still hate the Republican party for its stupidity too,(since nothing will change) and so I can now more than ever easily see a third party rise, maybe even knocking out one of the existing ones, which would be the Republican party, being its the weakest now.

Solar

Quote from: Paladin on December 15, 2012, 05:53:58 AM
One of the reasons why its always so easy for me to crush left-wingers, and right-wings in any topic, is because none of them actually think. They just react with their mouths due to emotion- which makes them appear irrational and ignorant.

I jumped to that conclusion, because you've already displayed enough ignorance- for me to believe you'd think anyone who is gay likes molesting children, and many people on the right already think that ridiculous rubbish... So no, not very interesting.

Then when you cleared it up, I not only thought it was still a silly thing to even mention, but also completely irrelevant... Gay, Straight, male, female, young, old, you better have a clear damn record if you're going in child care business, or better be on the up and up if nobody knows about whatever bad things you've done in your past. I'm not a prude, and believe in second chances- if one truly wants one.

Ok this is pretty silly, sorry it its just really silly.

I don't know if you've ever been in the military, and if you have certainly not in today's military (though there always have been gays, and sex). I began my military life at 18, (28 now)- and let me tell you what I saw, and or heard.

First of all, gay or straight; you're not supposed to be having sex in the military- its just not very professional- and even more of an issue if its male/female due to pregnancy reasons. However people are people, and some people fuck up. And if you think some men (straight, but just wanted sex) didn't get off with another man before women were allowed to really serve, then you are living in a fantasy world lol.

There was a guy who was messing about with a female soldier (they got the boot), there were men who'd actually mess about with civil females (in Iraq/Afghanistan... Gross). There were men who identified as straight, wife and kids- or had girlfriend... But would want sex so bad (a blow job), and would actually get that from another male soldier (and receive one too, aka "bros helping bros")- this was always kept on "the DL" or "down low", though jokes would fly about  toward anyone suspected of this sort of behavior. This is all over in Iraq/Afghanistan. If you were on base in the States, or in Germany- then you'd have soldiers naturally mess about with female prostitutes (not all soldiers did this), or some random chick (again not all)- and I'm more than sure the gays that nobody knew about, also messed about... However there are a lot of soldiers who really take pride in professionalism, and don't mess about with anyone- period.

But you also had men, who may have not wanted to be in the military anymore, and wanted to get kicked out. Soooo they'd end up doing porn- gay porn at that since the money would be better. Then there are some guys who'd actually get money for receiving a blow job, from another guy- so they'd do that (on the DL of course).. These guys didn't identify as gay, meaning they were not emotionally and physically attracted to men... But they sure as hell liked money, and maybe getting their knob polished in the process. I had gotten many offers from gay German civilians, or would have someone try to talk me into doing a porn- so I know it happens.

The horseplay that took place with the guys in my unit, and with other soldiers- would make anyone think they stepped into a bad gay porn film. I even have photos taken of the goofery that was shared with friends back home on my fight team- for a good laugh- that if they were ever posted up on Facebook or so, would  get me fired from my teaching job- hell I'd even get fired if I had a photo posted of me with alcohol... Some guys however would put such photos online, only to get in trouble for it in their civilian job (depending on what it is of course)

The guy in my unit who is gay, was very quite professional, and was one of those guys who didn't want to cheat on his partner, and mess about with someone else (gay straight, bi, tri whatever.). When it came out that he was gay, and we were all asking him questions about how it was to be gay. One of the guys asked if he thought any of us were hot, would he have sex with any of us back home. His reply was "gross fuck no, you guys are like my brothers". The guy who asked, was jokingly offend, thinking the gay guy  thought we were all ugly or something, he was also our superior.

The things I'm reading about gays in the military, or what I hear- really crack me up. Because the biggest opposition comes from people who have never been in the military, and then they're surprised when the learned that people in the military largely didn't and don't give a crap who is gay. At the same time, I find it really disrespectful to the American military. I was born and lived for awhile in Israel, then lived in Europe... There are gays in the military there, and women, and there are no problems. So basically you're saying American soldiers are so simple minded, that this issue would be something heavy on their mind- that would disrupt their task. This is the kind of stuff, that makes the right look dumb.

I never said, nor thought anyone so far had any bias, or hate towards homosexuals. However what I've been reading, from many on here- displays a lot of ignorance. Ignorance and hate are not the same things. You can be ignorant of the laws in another country, or ignorant of the feelings of another person- doesn't mean you hate them; it just means you're heavily prone in doing or saying something stupid- which is what I'm seeing in here.

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they want to have sex with every male that passes them by. I don't want to have sex with every female that comes my way- and when I was in the military even if I was showering with females, I wouldn't have done anything, because I wanted to remain faithful to my girl, aside from that- being that everyone in my family was in the military, there was a lot of pride and honor and respect for professionalism... That's just me, and of course there are many other soldiers gay or straight who think like me.

Nobody in here (who disagrees with you), is pushing a gay agenda, or anything leftist. We just understand that...

1. Not every single gay person behaves the same way, or wants what mainstream gay culture or left-wing ideology pushes.


2. Not every gay person is a leftist, there are gays out there who are conservative, and favor keeping our countries traditions and values, and do not ever wear their sexuality on their sleeve, as they know their sexuality doesn't define who they are as a person- rather their character and heart... Unfortunately from some of the things I'm reading in here- there are people who think they do... Again ignorance.

3. There is way too many members within the Republican party, who handle this issue in such a tactless way, it makes them very outdated, and foolish- not to mention provides easy ammo for the left- who makes them look stupid more and more about it.

There are Republicans who are ok with civil unions, and wouldn't keep a gay couple from receiving their partner's benefits-but of course they get called "rino" by the idiots... there are many Republicans who are not ok with civil unions, and if a gay person had one, or was married in a gay accepting church, would not acknowledge the union, and therefore would not allow the couple any rights to benefits and such... This is wrong, and its also hurting the party, and the religious right, and those who make right-wing ideology their religion, are foolishly not seeing the damage this is doing, which will get bigger come the next generation. This is what I'm talking about, not about changing any definitions of marriage or the constitution, because you don't need to, not about people needing to accept homosexuality, or gay marriage, because you don't have to. Just leave these people alone, and don't get in their way with what goes on in their relationship. If I were gay, and I died, I'd want my partner to receive my benefits. Rick Santorum and other morons like him, however don't think so.

There are Democrats who don't like the socialist left direction the Democratic party has seriously really gone into. They keep warning how its going to hurt the party, and when things fall apart economically and we have a Greece moment (and we will), the Democratic party is going to be severely damaged. At the same time people will still hate the Republican party for its stupidity too,(since nothing will change) and so I can now more than ever easily see a third party rise, maybe even knocking out one of the existing ones, which would be the Republican party, being its the weakest now.
Do those you meet in public brook your verbose lectures, or do they, as most are beginning to do here, simply ignore you?
Do us all a favor and post crib notes.
Seriously, figure out a way to be more concise when replying.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

kramarat

#122
Quote from: Paladin on December 15, 2012, 05:53:58 AM
One of the reasons why its always so easy for me to crush left-wingers, and right-wings in any topic, is because none of them actually think. They just react with their mouths due to emotion- which makes them appear irrational and ignorant.

I jumped to that conclusion, because you've already displayed enough ignorance- for me to believe you'd think anyone who is gay likes molesting children, and many people on the right already think that ridiculous rubbish... So no, not very interesting.

Then when you cleared it up, I not only thought it was still a silly thing to even mention, but also completely irrelevant... Gay, Straight, male, female, young, old, you better have a clear damn record if you're going in child care business, or better be on the up and up if nobody knows about whatever bad things you've done in your past. I'm not a prude, and believe in second chances- if one truly wants one.

Ok this is pretty silly, sorry it its just really silly.

I don't know if you've ever been in the military, and if you have certainly not in today's military (though there always have been gays, and sex). I began my military life at 18, (28 now)- and let me tell you what I saw, and or heard.

First of all, gay or straight; you're not supposed to be having sex in the military- its just not very professional- and even more of an issue if its male/female due to pregnancy reasons. However people are people, and some people fuck up. And if you think some men (straight, but just wanted sex) didn't get off with another man before women were allowed to really serve, then you are living in a fantasy world lol.

There was a guy who was messing about with a female soldier (they got the boot), there were men who'd actually mess about with civil females (in Iraq/Afghanistan... Gross). There were men who identified as straight, wife and kids- or had girlfriend... But would want sex so bad (a blow job), and would actually get that from another male soldier (and receive one too, aka "bros helping bros")- this was always kept on "the DL" or "down low", though jokes would fly about  toward anyone suspected of this sort of behavior. This is all over in Iraq/Afghanistan. If you were on base in the States, or in Germany- then you'd have soldiers naturally mess about with female prostitutes (not all soldiers did this), or some random chick (again not all)- and I'm more than sure the gays that nobody knew about, also messed about... However there are a lot of soldiers who really take pride in professionalism, and don't mess about with anyone- period.

But you also had men, who may have not wanted to be in the military anymore, and wanted to get kicked out. Soooo they'd end up doing porn- gay porn at that since the money would be better. Then there are some guys who'd actually get money for receiving a blow job, from another guy- so they'd do that (on the DL of course).. These guys didn't identify as gay, meaning they were not emotionally and physically attracted to men... But they sure as hell liked money, and maybe getting their knob polished in the process. I had gotten many offers from gay German civilians, or would have someone try to talk me into doing a porn- so I know it happens.

The horseplay that took place with the guys in my unit, and with other soldiers- would make anyone think they stepped into a bad gay porn film. I even have photos taken of the goofery that was shared with friends back home on my fight team- for a good laugh- that if they were ever posted up on Facebook or so, would  get me fired from my teaching job- hell I'd even get fired if I had a photo posted of me with alcohol... Some guys however would put such photos online, only to get in trouble for it in their civilian job (depending on what it is of course)

The guy in my unit who is gay, was very quite professional, and was one of those guys who didn't want to cheat on his partner, and mess about with someone else (gay straight, bi, tri whatever.). When it came out that he was gay, and we were all asking him questions about how it was to be gay. One of the guys asked if he thought any of us were hot, would he have sex with any of us back home. His reply was "gross fuck no, you guys are like my brothers". The guy who asked, was jokingly offend, thinking the gay guy  thought we were all ugly or something, he was also our superior.

The things I'm reading about gays in the military, or what I hear- really crack me up. Because the biggest opposition comes from people who have never been in the military, and then they're surprised when the learned that people in the military largely didn't and don't give a crap who is gay. At the same time, I find it really disrespectful to the American military. I was born and lived for awhile in Israel, then lived in Europe... There are gays in the military there, and women, and there are no problems. So basically you're saying American soldiers are so simple minded, that this issue would be something heavy on their mind- that would disrupt their task. This is the kind of stuff, that makes the right look dumb.

I never said, nor thought anyone so far had any bias, or hate towards homosexuals. However what I've been reading, from many on here- displays a lot of ignorance. Ignorance and hate are not the same things. You can be ignorant of the laws in another country, or ignorant of the feelings of another person- doesn't mean you hate them; it just means you're heavily prone in doing or saying something stupid- which is what I'm seeing in here.

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they want to have sex with every male that passes them by. I don't want to have sex with every female that comes my way- and when I was in the military even if I was showering with females, I wouldn't have done anything, because I wanted to remain faithful to my girl, aside from that- being that everyone in my family was in the military, there was a lot of pride and honor and respect for professionalism... That's just me, and of course there are many other soldiers gay or straight who think like me.

Nobody in here (who disagrees with you), is pushing a gay agenda, or anything leftist. We just understand that...

1. Not every single gay person behaves the same way, or wants what mainstream gay culture or left-wing ideology pushes.


2. Not every gay person is a leftist, there are gays out there who are conservative, and favor keeping our countries traditions and values, and do not ever wear their sexuality on their sleeve, as they know their sexuality doesn't define who they are as a person- rather their character and heart... Unfortunately from some of the things I'm reading in here- there are people who think they do... Again ignorance.

3. There is way too many members within the Republican party, who handle this issue in such a tactless way, it makes them very outdated, and foolish- not to mention provides easy ammo for the left- who makes them look stupid more and more about it.

There are Republicans who are ok with civil unions, and wouldn't keep a gay couple from receiving their partner's benefits-but of course they get called "rino" by the idiots... there are many Republicans who are not ok with civil unions, and if a gay person had one, or was married in a gay accepting church, would not acknowledge the union, and therefore would not allow the couple any rights to benefits and such... This is wrong, and its also hurting the party, and the religious right, and those who make right-wing ideology their religion, are foolishly not seeing the damage this is doing, which will get bigger come the next generation. This is what I'm talking about, not about changing any definitions of marriage or the constitution, because you don't need to, not about people needing to accept homosexuality, or gay marriage, because you don't have to. Just leave these people alone, and don't get in their way with what goes on in their relationship. If I were gay, and I died, I'd want my partner to receive my benefits. Rick Santorum and other morons like him, however don't think so.

There are Democrats who don't like the socialist left direction the Democratic party has seriously really gone into. They keep warning how its going to hurt the party, and when things fall apart economically and we have a Greece moment (and we will), the Democratic party is going to be severely damaged. At the same time people will still hate the Republican party for its stupidity too,(since nothing will change) and so I can now more than ever easily see a third party rise, maybe even knocking out one of the existing ones, which would be the Republican party, being its the weakest now.

I guess I'm glad that I'm not in today's military. I suppose things like what you describe went on while I was in, but I never heard a word about it. If it did, it would have been closet gays. Heterosexual men don't turn to homosexual sex out of desperation......................or I guess they do now. :scared:

If that behavior has become commonplace, it's yet another sad chapter in the damage that the left has wrought. :sad:

You have just made the argument that gays in the military are completely professional, and that no harm can come of it. And then you turned around and told me that in today's military, man on man sex is rampant.........even between heterosexuals. Thanks for closing my case for me.

walkstall

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2012, 06:14:44 AM
Do those you meet in public brook your verbose lectures, or do they, as most are beginning to do here, simply ignore you?
Do us all a favor and post crib notes.
Seriously, figure out a way to be more concise when replying.


Don't ask him what time it is he will tell you how to build a watch.  You may not have the bandwidth.   :ohmy:
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: walkstall on December 15, 2012, 06:26:46 AM

Don't ask him what time it is he will tell you how to build a watch.  You may not have the bandwidth.   :ohmy:
I may actually have to set a character limit on posts.
I never did in the beginning because I didn't see a need, but now I'm finally understanding why other forums do.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

walkstall

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2012, 06:31:41 AM
I may actually have to set a character limit on posts.
I never did in the beginning because I didn't see a need, but now I'm finally understanding why other forums do.

It will only drive up his post count.  It will become 50 posts not just one. 

Would it limite Writers Guild?
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: walkstall on December 15, 2012, 06:40:21 AM
It will only drive up his post count.  It will become 50 posts not just one. 

Would it limite Writers Guild?
Hmmmm, good question.
I'll have Taxed check into it if it becomes necessary.

Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

kramarat

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2012, 06:46:33 AM
Hmmmm, good question.
I'll have Taxed check into it if it becomes necessary.

Solar. There are lots of us on here that are prior military. Granted, for most, it's been decades.

Does anyone else recall this "downlow" or "lowdown" sex between heterosexuals being common, as Paladin is suggesting?

When I was in, even suggesting something like that, would have got someone's ass kicked. :blink: :angry:

Patriot

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2012, 06:46:33 AM
Hmmmm, good question.
I'll have Taxed check into it if it becomes necessary.
Character limits would become a pain for most or all, something to have to keep track of.  Maybe an Executive Summary would be in order.   :smile:
Making the suggestion as has been done is the best thing.  I've learned that most people only read headlines and maybe the first paragraph or so in a newspaper, so conciseness is important.

Solar

Quote from: kramarat on December 15, 2012, 07:21:08 AM
Solar. There are lots of us on here that are prior military. Granted, for most, it's been decades.

Does anyone else recall this "downlow" or "lowdown" sex between heterosexuals being common, as Paladin is suggesting?

When I was in, even suggesting something like that, would have got someone's ass kicked. :blink: :angry:
I never met one in the Military, and for a man to even consider submitting to another male, is preposterous.
We are no different than animals, in the animal world, when a male submits to another male, it's because he lost the battle for leadership.
Sexual dominance is a show of strength, to submit, is to show you are the weaker male.

If, as has been stated that many men don't see an issue with it in the military, it is a reflection of the leftist beating taking place in the form of PC.
I feel sorry for young men growing up today, they are discouraged from growing into real and productive men.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

kramarat

Quote from: Solar on December 15, 2012, 10:46:01 AM
I never met one in the Military, and for a man to even consider submitting to another male, is preposterous.
We are no different than animals, in the animal world, when a male submits to another male, it's because he lost the battle for leadership.
Sexual dominance is a show of strength, to submit, is to show you are the weaker male.

If, as has been stated that many men don't see an issue with it in the military, it is a reflection of the leftist beating taking place in the form of PC.
I feel sorry for young men growing up today, they are discouraged from growing into real and productive men.

The last man that I heard about liking the lowdown sex, was Obama.

If what Paladin says is true, he has presented the most damning evidence to date, that gays in the military are a bad idea. He has presented the leftist viewpoint..................just do what feels good at the moment. It doesn't matter who you are having sex with. What counts is getting off. You can go back to being a heterosexual when you get home. I just don't know what the hell to say. It just leaves me shaking my head in shame, to think that this is our "new" military under Obama.

taxed

Quote from: Paladin on December 15, 2012, 03:57:10 AM
You make this too easy for me, really lol.
You keep running in circles.

Quote
You continue to display poor comprehension skills. Nobody said you were hateful, because you don't support gay marriage. I've already stated countless times, I don't even support gay marriage, and there are gays who don't either.
Good.


Quote
As far as gays in the military go, I didn't give a crap or wonder who was gay when I was serving. And when it happen to come out that one of the guys in my unit was gay- sure we were surprised, as nobody would have even thought so about him- but he was a damn good soldier, awesome guy, and did his job beyond well which is all we cared about. As far as women in combat go, I have mixed feelings about that, but hey if a woman chooses to defend and serve this country, and can do the damn job, then she's got my respect. No you aren't hateful because you don't support those things, I called you hateful because your wording was irrational and ignorant- same as I hear on the left... In other words you made yourself look the part.
Like what?  Example please.


Quote
I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of me, except family and closest friends; and I loathe political correctness (just as much as prudes).
No one cares.

Quote
My whole philosophy is based more on classic liberalism- which is also part of the philosophy of classic Republicanism, but also what America was meant to be. In other words, if you're not hurting me, anyone I love and care for,  the country, other people, and you're happy with yourself- then I don't give a shit- my opinion of you is formed by the character you display- where you show your heart is. I just happen to know that, not every gay person is a flaming fairy who hates god, hates America, and wants to tear down all noble philosophies of this country.
I never said that.  Gays, in the majority, are drama queens.

Quote
I don't agree with the left or "libs" as you call them, nor do I agree with the right. They're both morons- and neither one of them are pro-American patriots- they're just sunshine patriots... I put you in that category of course.
I think gays, in the majority are drama queens, therefore I'm a "sunshine patriot".  Got it.

Quote
ROFL!!! This is exactly why I say your comprehension skills are lacking.

No this wasn't your case, in fact I'm not even sure what case you're trying to make- since you sound like an irrational twit lol.
Since you are having a hard time following, I'll summarize: the MAJORITY of gays are the drama queens.  You say your friends aren't these drama queens, which I don't doubt.  I say the majority of gays are drama queens.  You disagree and say I'm unpatriotic.  You say your friends "don't like the word gay because of what mainstream gays have done to it", agreeing with me that the MAJORITY of gays are making gays look bad.  I'm not even saying being a drama queen is bad.  I've had these people as employees, and they do their jobs just like anyone else (sure, maybe a little extra gabbing on the phone), but overall are just fine, and have loved them all.  Gays, in the MAJORITY, have their traits.  They're cleaner, take care of their areas, and have that woman's touch with many things that us straight guys lack, like design, aesthetics, etc.  Is every straight guy bad at designing?  Of course not, but the MAJORITY of straight guys are.  It's a woman/gay, i.e., feminine trait to be good at designing.


Quote
Those men (and women too), who don't even like the word gay; because they don't like what mainstream gay culture has done to it.... DON'T EVEN LIVE AND LOVE MAINSTREAM GAY CULTURE aka "gay lifestyle". They stay away from it, because it clashes with their traditions and values, and even political beliefs- due to mainstream gay culture being left-wing. Because these gays (who my friend labeled "Group C" in his research), stay away from it- they get viciously trashed by the ones who love it, and live it. They if not threatened physically, are also called things like "sell out", or "self-hater". You're not going to find these gay men and women, in any gay bars, gay clubs, and definitely not a gay pride parade- they find them to be freak shows, disrespectful, degrading, not who they are.
I don't disagree.

Quote
These gays (conservative gays), don't go about wearing their sexuality on their sleeve. Its not who they are- its their character as a man, or a woman that defines who they are, not who they are physically and emotionally attracted to. Mainstream gay culture on the other hand believes the opposite. Which is one of the biggest tenants in left-wing ideology. If you're gay, or black, you must think, behave, and like the same, and support all left-wing ideology... Your statements so far, have played right into this- and you're too ignorant to even catch it.
Again, I don't disagree.

Quote
LOL No you have a little thing called "irrational ignorance" (the stupid kind of ignorance at that). Your statements mirror more someone of that nature, not someone of experience, or wisdom. That's my department. I had experience living with someone who is gay, serving with someone who is gay- and then took interest in my friend's research, and information which he had been gathering for 12 and a half years- which was very fascinating after meeting some of these people.
Again, I'm not a stranger to the gay community either.  I know way more than I should about them.

Quote
1. A real American patriot cares for the freedoms and rights of ALL Americans. As I said, if you're not hurting anyone, or the country, and you're happy- then I don't care. I'm not going to stand in your way of life, if you aren't ruining anyone else's. Modern conservatives, just as modern liberals- only care for their little ideology, and their group of morons who support them.
I agree with this if you remove the "modern conservatives" part.

Quote
2. Again, you're talking about left-wing gay activist here- who live and love mainstream gay culture- who I feel are garbage because of what they spew. The gays who keep away from mainstream gay culture, aka "gay lifestyle" (who also think it and they are garbage), don't push legislation change, don't care for it- nor do they "do anything in public". They just mind their own business, live their life, and want to be left alone to do so... Unfortunately (which is my point to this entire topic)... We have right-wing politicians, who wouldn't acknowledge the union of two gays... Meaning, if these two gays got a civil union (which many of these right-wing twits do not support- due to religious reasons), or they were married in a gay accepting church.  The couple would not be entitled to the benefits of their partner. This interferes with their freedom, and should not be- it isn't "special treatment". Sarah Palin as I mentioned, vetoed a bill, that would have prevented same sex couples from receiving their partner's benefits. This isn't "special treatment"- because she's a real conservative, and real patriot.
Please post where I have opposed civil unions.

Quote
3. Get over what? The only thing I'm talking about, and see needs to change- are the overly religious twits within the Republican party- or at least the wanting to appease the religious right so much. This is hurting the party which is of no surprise. I do not agree with changing definition of marriage, but I do agree that if a gay couple got a civil union, or was married in a gay accepting church, that couple should be entitled to the same benefits a traditional couple has. Denying them this stands in the way their of their personal freedom, and again... Unfortunately we have members within the Republican party, who would not acknowledge the union, therefore would deny them this... This is basically what Rick Santorum said in the primaries, when he said he would not acknowledge the civil union either- all due to his religious views... If you think I should "get over it", then you really need to stop calling yourself an American patriot because you're not, if you can't see what's wrong with that.
I'm a conservative, not a Republican.  I don't care what Rick Santorum says.  Learn the difference.


Quote
4. I said religious right, and no it would not suck to them- check your reading skills please ^_^.
The religious right wouldn't like it either.

Quote
You didn't "counter" anything, just displayed more ignorance- to which if your uncle really said that crap for real, then that's sadly hilarious. I'm also not asking you to care about anything, I'm only pointing out how ridiculously you appear- and part of why conservatism, and the Republican party, and just anyone on the right is easily mocked, and torn down- because of tactless statements, that are based in ignorance. I don't know what your "gay" uncle did to make him feel gays shouldn't be in the military, but the gay guy I served with had no problems, so sorry (actually I'm not sorry)- I'm not going to share the ridiculous opinion you and your uncle have on this issue.
Where did I say he said they shouldn't be in the military?  Please post it.


Quote
Nobody knew the guy I served with was gay, as he didn't feel it was important. It only came up when we were talking about girls, and he was asked if he had a girlfriend or wife- he simply said "no I'm gay". We were all surprised, because nobody in a million years would ever think he was gay, but everyone got curious and asked him a load of questions (not disrespectful ones), and they were shocked about his responses- because it didn't match up with what they knew or thought of gay people, and ultimately nobody cared.
That's wonderful.

Quote
ROFL I've seen this photo before, and the men who are gay that I know, and the guys I got to meet during my friend's research... Laugh at shit like this. They don't like this stuff, because they feel it its just not very manly for a guy to be holding another dude like that kissing on him like that in public my girlfriend was in my arms like that when I came home lol. They don't even like holding hands in public, feeling that's a male/female thing. They don't use terms like "boyfriend" or "husband", again it emulates male/female. And so again you further prove your ignorance with mass generalizations... Not every gay person behaves in this manner. I don't find any of what you say offensive or anything, nor would any of the gays I know... They aren't cry baby lefties.
Would this photo opportunity have happened under DADT?

Quote
I'm just letting you again, know how retarded you sound. Unfortunately too many on the right do this sort of thing- and not all of it is even done with any kind of malice, just more as a joke. I think its funny, the gay men I know would too. However you cannot afford to be joking like that, when you're already pegged as either racist, anti-gay, or just trapped in the 1950's. Then of course the right-wing politician who may have joked like this, or any of his supporters. Now has to spend time talking about how he's not racist, or anti-gay, which takes time away from his message.
He is just being a gay soldier, excited to see his man.  What is wrong with that in your eyes?  You are OK with them serving in the military, so what's the big deal?


Quote
The independent (which out number left and right), who may have a gay friend or family  member- may see it as "mean" or "unfair" to poke fun at this, or maybe even hateful- and will say (which I've heard many times) "Republicans are stuck in the 50's" "Why are they so concerned about people's relationships" "My gay friend doesn't behave like this". And so then they'll move further away from anything that has to do with conservatism or the Republican party- and so the left continues to lead the culture... Wise up.
I'm not PC.  I don't give a shit.  I'm an equal opportunity offender.


Quote
Sure you're religious. Your religion is right-wing ideology,
OK, if you are going to be serious and post here in this forum, then I ask you to defend your positions (which you are and have), but this wasn't your context of this reply, and you know that.  This may work on the idiots you are used to speaking to, but not here.  You implied I was a religious zealot, I said I'm not, yet you continue with the same reply in a different context.  Don't do this again, please.


Quote
which keeps you from actually thinking for yourself, but also keeps you from thinking about the original platform of the Republican party, conservatism, and what classic liberalism is- as well as what the founding fathers had intended for this country.
Where do I not think for myself, or what of my positions are not conservative?  I'm asking you to list them, please, or retract your statement.


Quote
Its quite alright for you to be against gays in the military, gay marriage, ect- and if you explain a reasonable positions for your beliefs, it doesn't make you hateful at all.
Gosh, I'm glad you, the judge of what's right and wrong, told me that.  Thanks!

Quote
I too was once against gays in the military. My reasons were due to a lot of the hazing that goes on. I didn't want someone saying "I was treated this way because I'm gay", and now a good instructor or so, is getting in trouble. But that hasn't happened in all the years gays have been serving, or today, which by the way nobody's noticed any change nor cares about DADT's repeal. I know soldiers who have asked gay soldiers "so how does it feel", their response "just another day". Though there are some who are now not afraid of receiving a letter, phone call, or email from their partner, or listing them as a beneficiary if they are killed.
You're so evolved.

Quote
Another mass generalization further making you look retarded lol. I don't have a hard time accepting anything about my brother- he's happy I'm happy. He's a good man, and good brother, proud of him, no more or less than my other two brothers, or the ones who don't share my blood. You don't offend me, just further prove my opinion of your stupidity.
What generalization?

Quote
I don't have a problem with anyone's religious views, so long as their religion doesn't call for ending another person's life- or restricting a person's personal choice or freedom- if they are not hurting anyone.
I agree.

Quote
Unfortunately as I've been mentioning- which has been my point on this debate. There are members within the Republican party, who'd deny a gay couple from receiving benefits from their partner, because they do not acknowledge the union of the couple, due to religious reasons. This I have a problem with, they are behaving no differently from the left- who wish to tell you what car to drive, what bulb to use, what you can and cannot say. Keep your faith out of policy that has to do with people's personal lives. I was praying Romney would have the balls, to stand by how he was in Massachusetts- with the whole civil unions, and benefits, but he had to play Mr Right-wing, to appease the religious right-wing twits who were all in love with  Santorum.
Damn those people with their own views.


Quote
You can say you don't agree with gay marriage, and state your religious views for having that belief. This doesn't make you hateful. However when you want to restrict a certain group of people from doing something that involves their own personal life- due to how you feel religiously on the issue, thus afraid to be in favor of it- this is what makes you look ridiculous, and wrong- as it s not original conservatism, or Republicanism.
You're right.  Please post where in The Constitution it discusses marriage so I can educate myself, Mr. classic liberal/conservative.

Quote
Sarah Palin doesn't agree with gay marriage, or anything that has to do with changing the definition of marriage. Yet she was ok with not restricting gay couples from receiving benefits from their partner. This does not mean she supports gay marriage or homosexuality. It means she supports the views of liberty the founding father had, the original views of the Republican party Lincoln had,(based on classic Liberalism), and the true meaning of conservatism, not Nixion's 1950's conservatism.
Please post where I disagree with Palin.


Quote
I'm starting to really believe you were dropped on your head or something as a baby... You appear quite slow to comprehend simple things... You need to do a better job at reading, and taking the time to fully grasp and understand what is being said, especially when it has to be repeated numerous times, because you aren't getting it. I know children more intelligent and wise than what you're displaying- very sad.

I never accused anyone of hating anyone- except gays who can't stand gay culture, and the gays who live and promote gay culture, who can't stand that not all gays are left-wing god hating freaks.

I'm a Christian, and don't agree with gay marriage- I don't know how many times I've said that already. There are also gays who don't agree with gay marriage- either due to religious views, and Jesus as we know said marriage is between one man, one woman. Or the fact that they don't even like the word marriage used between same sex couples, because they feel its trying to emulate heterosexual couples, and they think this is wrong to do, and therefore don't do it.

However what I did say, is that it is wrong for a politician to govern with faith in mind, meaning... "Since I don't believe in gay marriage, I'm going to deny a same sex couple from receiving benefits from their partner". This is wrong. This is unfortunately the position of many within the Republican party- who are more concerned with appeasing the religious right voters, than they are with being a leader for all Americans, sticking to the principles of true conservatism, and what the Republican party stood for. These politicians are stuck in Nixion's 1950's conservatism, and the joining of the Christian coalition and the Republican party after the Democrats did it, and won because of it.  Disagree with homosexuality and gay marriage all you wish, its ok- but stay out of the lives of those who wish to have a union and be entitled to the benefits that come with a union- its not for anyone to be concerned with... And unfortunately there are politicians who just can't.
Are you wanting voters to stop voting their values, electing these politicians?


Quote
Aww let me guess, you were trying to make a funny.. LOL Show me a right-winger, and I'll show you a brainless twat, who thinks he's different from a left-winger lol.
Don't be offended.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Yawn

QuoteAnd when it happen to come out that one of the guys in my unit was gay- sure we were surprised,

I was waited on in the grocery store yesterday by someone who was obviously "gay."  I doubt he needed to "come out."  I don't think anyone would be surprised that he was "gay."  Like I said, some are clearly "born that way."  There are easily recognizably physical and mental differences.

Paladin

Quote from: kramarat on December 15, 2012, 04:52:56 AM
Talking about men and baby sitting wasn't important. It certainly was effective at revealing your own prejudice though. By default, you went to, "Men that want to baby sit children, must be child molesters". It's a prejudice that most of us share, but a prejudiced position, nonetheless.

So you are against civil unions? :confused: If it has to be marriage or bust, it seems to me that it's the left that wants to keep the fight alive.
Bear in mind, this is the same left that has been degrading marriage, since the late 60s. Remember?
Marriage is a ball and chain.
Marriage is outdated and no longer necessary.
We don't need a stupid piece of paper to prove that we love each other.
Marriage was invented by men, to force women into submission.

This work has paid off. The left has been wildly successful in destroying the traditional nuclear family. Now we live in the wonderful world of having kids screwing like rabbits by the time they are 14, abortions on demand, and many of them becoming adults that are hollow, empty and lack any purpose whatsoever.

Now we've got the schizophrenic left telling us that marriage is a right for homosexuals, and that the selfish heterosexuals are hoarding this wonderful and loving institution for themselves. You like to lump conservatives together, and yet the positions from the left are both laughable, and often times, conflicting. To expect a coherent response from conservatives, when the message from the left is, "Marriage is old fashioned and it sucks. And we demand that homosexuals are allowed to do it", is a farce. The left wants new laws passed, and can't even make up their minds what it is they want. :blink:

For 40 years or more, the left has been dead set on destroying one institution after another, and we've got a society that reflects the results of that hard work.....................and yet the work is not done.
Any mention of God is now offensive. For a kid to wear a shirt with the American flag on it to school, is a suspendable offense. Pride in our military is now gay pride.

When conservative make any attempt to slow or stop this "progress", we are called bigots and haters. Since the left seems incapable of seeing the damage that they are doing, just how in the hell would you suggest that we act?

I'm a pretty damned tolerant person, and I am not one of these conservatives that wants to see the country run by religious caliphate. But this shit is getting old. This is a two way street, and I have to insist that I am also allowed to live my life the way I see fit, and not be coerced into accepting a morality that I don't agree with.

Civil unions/partnerships for gays? Sure thing. Don't push the envelope, and we'll get along fine.

Do you know how to read, and understand what you read? I never implied anyone who is gay likes to molest children. I thought it was silly your comment about you not wanting your daughter being left alone with a certain type of person- which made it appear that you believe someone who is gay molest children- which is what I called you out on-as there are already many on the right who believe such rubbish. You then cleared it up, but it was still a ridiculous and irrelevant thing, because its common sense that anyone would want whoever is around their children to have a clean past... So you're only confusing yourself with this issue, move off of it.

You're missing the point, because you're more stuck on talking about the agenda of the left... I as well as many others in here, already know the agenda of the left- and we don't like it. At the same time we also see the mistakes the right are making, which is hurting the Republican party, and conservatism.

Also the only people fighting to change the definition of marriage are gay left-wing activist, and heterosexual left-wing activist. They don't fight for this change, because they care about civil liberties- only the destruction of all that is noble about this country. Conservative gays hate gay culture, and left-wing ideology. Conservative gay activist fight against left-wing gay activist...  But they don't get the help and support from their party- like the Democrats give to the left-wing activist.

In England, gays have civil unions- here in America in some states gays can have civil unions... All well and good.. Unfortunately we have members within the Republican party, who do not support civil unions, and would not acknowledge the union, therefore do not feel either partner in the union is entitled to the benefits of their partner. If I were married and died, my wife would get my benefits from my job. If I were gay and in a civil union or gay marriage- politicians like Rick Santorum don't feel my partner should get my benefits. This is what I'm talking about, this is what's hurting the Republican party.

The new and younger Republicans/Conservatives, while they may not agree with changing the definition of marriage, fully support civil unions, and the partner being entitled for benefits. They don't fall in line with the more rigid views of the dinosaurs trapped in Nixion's 1950's conservatism.

Ron Paul got a load of support from young people, a hell of a lot. Even more support from the military over the other candidates combined. Because Ron Paul is more in line with how the founding fathers viewed this country, with civil liberties and personal rights/freedoms. This is a largely growing group in America, especially among the young- all of which are not only fed up with Democrat's inflation of gov, but also the stupidity of the outdated right. In other words if the Republican party doesn't clean these fools out, its dead. It worked fine in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even 80's. Today it doesn't stand, as society has changed. There are many people who have gay friends, or family members, who behave nothing like many on the right ignorantly think, and so get offended when they hear the stupidity of the right.

I never implied nor believe (since I don't know you), that you are intolerant, or hateful. I've stated many times already I do not agree with changing the definition of marriage, and I just don't believe in gay marriage, and that there were gays who feel the same damn way.

You're all for civil unions, great awesome, me too.. Now lets tell that to the many members of the Republican party who are not, and in the process turning many away. Conservative gays aren't trying to push anything. All they do is live their life, mind their business, don't wear their sexuality on their sleeve, and expect to be left alone, and respected.

You many not care to see the country be a Christian theocracy, but there are many on the religious right- who'd love that; and this is also hurting the party.


LOL A lot of you guys in here are not grasping simple concepts; and its no wonder why the left are so able to make people on the right look bad.

Yawn

Quote
You many not care to see the country be a Christian theocracy, but there are many on the religious right- who'd love that

Name two.

Or even one.

Or even one "respected" Christian who wants to replace our Constitution with a Christian Theocracy.  I don't know, or know of any.  It is your own liberal bias that creates this odd view of religion in America.