Quote from: Darth Fife on November 24, 2014, 09:04:29 PM
A local talk show host out here dug up a "debate" on Firing Line between William F Buckley Jr and Saul Alinsky!

He only played about 10 minutes of the debate, but it was clear that Alinsky was intellectually out matched!

At one point Alinsky is totally flustered and asks Buckley impatiently, "Do you want to know what my philosphy is?"

Buckley answer is a voice that is just on the border of mocking, "Desperately!"

The audience roared with approval!

Darth

....and liked this one too!   I'd have loved to have been there.   

Yes we all know he is out of control and we can declare him an emperor, dictator, narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, etc., but something needs to be done.  There is no other option, but to try to IMPEACH him.  Any other action is going to be futile and a waste of time.  The focus should be on stopping him period.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Yes we all know he is out of control and we can declare him an emperor, dictator, narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, etc., but something needs to be done.  There is no other option, but to try to IMPEACH him.  Any other action is going to be futile and a waste of time.  The focus should be on stopping him period.

Just curious. What do you think impeaching Obama would accomplish?

Quote from: supsalemgr on November 25, 2014, 12:07:40 PM
Just curious. What do you think impeaching Obama would accomplish?

I believe there is an even bigger downside to Impeachment and removal. It would allow the Dim party as a whole, to indict Obola for everything, allowing them off the hook and escape voter backlash.
Regardless, I want him to stay, if for no other reason than to kill of the Dim party as the Marxist party.

Quote from: keyboarder on November 25, 2014, 03:40:27 AM
....and liked this one too!   I'd have loved to have been there.   

I'd like to see that clip!   

It reminds me of the debate between Milton Friedman and Phil Donahue about "Greed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2014, 12:54:20 PM
I believe there is an even bigger downside to Impeachment and removal. It would allow the Dim party as a whole, to indict Obola for everything, allowing them off the hook and escape voter backlash.
Regardless, I want him to stay, if for no other reason than to kill of the Dim party as the Marxist party.

You want him to stay so he can continue his destruction of this country just to kill the DEM party?  Are you that hung up on party? If he is allowed to continue, we won't have a country left let alone a political party. I'm sorry but I'm more hung up on saving this country.  The DEMS lost the mid terms by a landslide and to think for a minute that he cares is downright ridiculous.  If he cared he wouldn't have just granted amnesty to millions of people.  He again, bypassed Congress...AGAIN!  What part of that don't you see?  Do you think for a minute that he's going to stop just because of a new majority?

TEA kicked butt, there is no doubt about it.  We now have to finish the job...IMPEACHMENT!  He needs to be removed from office.  We can survive 2 years of Uncle Joe, but 2 more years of the Muslim Marxist?  Not a chance.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 04:47:25 PM
You want him to stay so he can continue his destruction of this country just to kill the DEM party?  Are you that hung up on party? If he is allowed to continue, we won't have a country left let alone a political party. I'm sorry but I'm more hung up on saving this country.  The DEMS lost the mid terms by a landslide and to think for a minute that he cares is downright ridiculous.  If he cared he wouldn't have just granted amnesty to millions of people.  He again, bypassed Congress...AGAIN!  What part of that don't you see?  Do you think for a minute that he's going to stop just because of a new majority?

TEA kicked butt, there is no doubt about it.  We now have to finish the job...IMPEACHMENT!  He needs to be removed from office.  We can survive 2 years of Uncle Joe, but 2 more years of the Muslim Marxist?  Not a chance.

I fully support the idea of impeaching this criminal...and subsequently removing him from office and bringing him and his cohorts to justice for all the crimes he (they) have committed. I look forward to Obama's presidency being historic, as the first POTUS to actually be removed from office and as a citizen, to be tried by a jury and sentenced to a term in prison! Not the Dream of his father...but My Dream to demonstate that no man is above the law and that we  are a nation of laws, not of men (who can act without regrard to our laws.

Having said all this, I am a realist and I realize that we can not do this without Obama having a defection of some members of both his own party and the media.  The penjulum will begin to swing in our direction only as we keep calm and act responsibly.  The American people want Leadership and we have to act in a manner which inspires other Americans to follow, regardless of whether they have voted Republican or Democrat, in the past!

We need to build a coalition (if not a party) and that will take a of time and quite a lot of responsible legislation. Whether Obama signs it or not, is not all that important!

You never want to get in a pissin match with a skunk!

Quote from: wally on November 25, 2014, 05:18:27 PM
I fully support the idea of impeaching this criminal...and subsequently removing him from office and bringing him and his cohorts to justice for all the crimes he (they) have committed. I look forward to Obama's presidency being historic, as the first POTUS to actually be removed from office and as a citizen, to be tried by a jury and sentenced to a term in prison! Not the Dream of his father...but My Dream to demonstate that no man is above the law and that we  are a nation of laws, not of men (who can act without regrard to our laws.

Having said all this, I am a realist and I realize that we can not do this without Obama having a defection of some members of both his own party and the media.  The penjulum will begin to swing in our direction only as we keep calm and act responsibly.  The American people want Leadership and we have to act in a manner which inspires other Americans to follow, regardless of whether they have voted Republican or Democrat, in the past!

We need to build a coalition (if not a party) and that will take a of time and quite a lot of responsible legislation. Whether Obama signs it or not, is not all that important!

You never want to get in a pissin match with a skunk!

I also am a realist and agree with most of your viewpoint.  I do believe that the pendulum has begun to swing to the right and certainly the vote of the people during the mid-term election indicate that people want Leadership and are against Obama policy and I clearly hear what you are saying.

However, I don't think we have time to further build on the coalition that we have. Remember that Obama has made Congress irrelevant and is acting on his own.  We can no longer afford to let him do that.  Game over.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 07:12:54 PM
I also am a realist and agree with most of your viewpoint.  I do believe that the pendulum has begun to swing to the right and certainly the vote of the people during the mid-term election indicate that people want Leadership and are against Obama policy and I clearly hear what you are saying.

However, I don't think we have time to further build on the coalition that we have. Remember that Obama has made Congress irrelevant and is acting on his own.  We can no longer afford to let him do that.  Game over.

So you propose we do what?

(realize that we'll only get one shot at impeachment;  be ready or be damned! We'd need 67 votes in the Senate for a conviction. This would mean that a whole slew of Dems would have to place their country over their party and be willing to put thir political lives on the line, by standing up with the Republicans against their own Leader. (no more ever being invited to Liberal functions or being supported by the MSM)

Impeachment is a daunting undertaking.  Just l ike a good lawyer never asked a question he doesn't already know the answer to. Impeachment ought not be pursued until/unless we have a predictible outcome of necessary "yea" votes.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 04:47:25 PM
You want him to stay so he can continue his destruction of this country just to kill the DEM party?  Are you that hung up on party? If he is allowed to continue, we won't have a country left let alone a political party. I'm sorry but I'm more hung up on saving this country.  The DEMS lost the mid terms by a landslide and to think for a minute that he cares is downright ridiculous.  If he cared he wouldn't have just granted amnesty to millions of people.  He again, bypassed Congress...AGAIN!  What part of that don't you see?  Do you think for a minute that he's going to stop just because of a new majority?

TEA kicked butt, there is no doubt about it.  We now have to finish the job...IMPEACHMENT!  He needs to be removed from office.  We can survive 2 years of Uncle Joe, but 2 more years of the Muslim Marxist?  Not a chance.

Have you not been paying attention, or is emotion your only functioning brain cell at the moment?

I'll type slow, so you can follow.
Impeachment is a series of charges, not to be taken lightly, let alone rushed into.
Setting the stage takes time, the new Congress has yet to be seated, and the last thing I WE want them doing is haphazardly throwing together a set of charges that have yet yielded an investigative response. (Think IRS Investigation Underway)
You know, kind of like sentencing a prisoner to death, before the jury had a chance to review the evidence, aside the fact, only half the investigation is complete..  Am I going too fast for ya?

Then there is this little animal known as momentum. It's that thing AD agencies like to refer to as "HYPE". They hype a story, spin it, float balloons to the media, poll areas where they test marketed their ideas, then, and only then, do they sit and dissect the results. (did we hype it enough, or too little?)
Is it worthy of proceeding, did we touch all demographics, why are women in favor more than men, but why are 20 somethings adamant it's a failure.

These are all things that happen before something of this magnitude is even presented as a complete package.
Then there is still the minor issue of support. What if the Dims refuse to support it? Simple answer, we just wasted 6 months of nonproductive time, with nothing to show for it.

So, after all the polling, we discover in all that data, the left want to be the ones behind moving forward.
They are the ones that have the most to lose if he isn't removed, and even more to gain if they instigate it themselves, because it gives them a way to say they wanted to save the nation of the mistakes their leadership made by Impeaching him themselves in a bipartisan approach.
Now they can move forward to 2016, claiming it was't they who did all this damage, it was the other guy and we stopped him.

Point is, this is a serious game of political chess, and rushing head first into the fire is nothing short of ignorance.
If I sound perturbed, you bet I am, I expect more from the members of this forum, I expect them to act like adults and think things through first, instead of acting like a spoiled teen from the "I want it now" generation.

But if you want to continue this nonsense, then take it somewhere else, you're making us look like fools.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 07:12:54 PM
I also am a realist and agree with most of your viewpoint.  I do believe that the pendulum has begun to swing to the right and certainly the vote of the people during the mid-term election indicate that people want Leadership and are against Obama policy and I clearly hear what you are saying.

However, I don't think we have time to further build on the coalition that we have. Remember that Obama has made Congress irrelevant and is acting on his own.  We can no longer afford to let him do that.  Game over.

Actually, Congress has made itself irrelevant by incrementally ceding its Constitutional role, a little bit at a time, to the executive branch. That's not an irreversible tide. The same Congress can regain its proper role, but it can't be done overnight.

Don't forget that Congress still has that magical thing the MSM like to call 'the power of the purse.' Of course, it's all a power game inside the beltway, but power is fueled by money. The Kenyan's takeover of immigration policy, for example, will look pretty silly when there's no money to print up the new green cards. The illegal agreement the Kenyan recently made with China regarding CO² emissions will crumble to dust when every effort by the EPA to put it into place runs out of money.

The Kenyan is able to get by with his shit right now because Congress has been remiss in maintaining the Constitutional separation of powers. That can change. But don't expect anything before January. Hairy Weed still wields the gavel in the upper house until then.

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2014, 07:30:12 PM
Have you not been paying attention, or is emotion your only functioning brain cell at the moment?

I'll type slow, so you can follow.
Impeachment is a series of charges, not to be taken lightly, let alone rushed into.
Setting the stage takes time, the new Congress has yet to be seated, and the last thing I WE want them doing is haphazardly throwing together a set of charges that have yet yielded an investigative response. (Think IRS Investigation Underway)
You know, kind of like sentencing a prisoner to death, before the jury had a chance to review the evidence, aside the fact, only half the investigation is complete..  Am I going too fast for ya?

Then there is this little animal known as momentum. It's that thing AD agencies like to refer to as "HYPE". They hype a story, spin it, float balloons to the media, poll areas where they test marketed their ideas, then, and only then, do they sit and dissect the results. (did we hype it enough, or too little?)
Is it worthy of proceeding, did we touch all demographics, why are women in favor more than men, but why are 20 somethings adamant it's a failure.

These are all things that happen before something of this magnitude is even presented as a complete package.
Then there is still the minor issue of support. What if the Dims refuse to support it? Simple answer, we just wasted 6 months of nonproductive time, with nothing to show for it.

So, after all the polling, we discover in all that data, the left want to be the ones behind moving forward.
They are the ones that have the most to lose if he isn't removed, and even more to gain if they instigate it themselves, because it gives them a way to say they wanted to save the nation of the mistakes their leadership made by Impeaching him themselves in a bipartisan approach.
Now they can move forward to 2016, claiming it was't they who did all this damage, it was the other guy and we stopped him.

Point is, this is a serious game of political chess, and rushing head first into the fire is nothing short of ignorance.
If I sound perturbed, you bet I am, I expect more from the members of this forum, I expect them to act like adults and think things through first, instead of acting like a spoiled teen from the "I want it now" generation.

But if you want to continue this nonsense, then take it somewhere else, you're making us look like fools.

Ok Solar, if impeachment is such nonsense what do YOU propose?  To let this president continue with his overreach of power?  He has made Congress ineffective.  What do YOU propose?

TEA has made tremendous strides.  We kicked butt in the mid-terms.  However, Obama acted on his own, without Congress and handed millions Amnesty.  They are here.  There is no reversing that "promise" without creating a negative tidal wave to the positive we just accomplished.  IMO the votes of the mid-terms want Obama policy stopped.  Do you really thing that Obama won't act on his own again to further his agenda?  Thinking that is just plain foolish.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 25, 2014, 07:43:08 PM
Actually, Congress has made itself irrelevant by incrementally ceding its Constitutional role, a little bit at a time, to the executive branch. That's not an irreversible tide. The same Congress can regain its proper role, but it can't be done overnight.

Don't forget that Congress still has that magical thing the MSM like to call 'the power of the purse.' Of course, it's all a power game inside the beltway, but power is fueled by money. The Kenyan's takeover of immigration policy, for example, will look pretty silly when there's no money to print up the new green cards. The illegal agreement the Kenyan recently made with China regarding CO² emissions will crumble to dust when every effort by the EPA to put it into place runs out of money.

The Kenyan is able to get by with his shit right now because Congress has been remiss in maintaining the Constitutional separation of powers. That can change. But don't expect anything before January. Hairy Weed still wields the gavel in the upper house until then.

Exactly.  Of course the only chance of stopping Obama won't come till January.  All I am saying is stopping his overreach should be the main agenda, but I'm not so sure that using the "power of the purse" is going to work as I certainly don't expect Obama to change.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 08:22:19 PM
Exactly.  Of course the only chance of stopping Obama won't come till January.  All I am saying is stopping his overreach should be the main agenda, but I'm not so sure that using the "power of the purse" is going to work as I certainly don't expect Obama to change.

I don't expect the Kenyan to change either. But if the power of the purse is carefully and judiciously applied to cut off his extra-Constitutional initiatives, it ceases to matter what he thinks or wants. We can just sit back and watch him Executive Order himself into the basement of history.

Hey, I can announce to everyone here that I intend to drive nothing but Rolls-Royce automobiles for the rest of my life. But if I don't have the money to buy one, I end up looking pretty stupid. Come January, we'll have the opportunity to make the Kenyan look pretty stupid.

Quote from: suzziY on November 25, 2014, 07:47:11 PM
Ok Solar, if impeachment is such nonsense what do YOU propose?  To let this president continue with his overreach of power?  He has made Congress ineffective.  What do YOU propose?

The same thing I've been saying all along, be patient and let the Freshmen settle in.. Once they have discussed a strategy, which no doubt includes serious funding cuts, but let them play the game of chess their own way.
You are using the incompetence of rino of the past as a guide for the future, which is not only silly, but unfair to the incoming Congress TEA put in place.

QuoteTEA has made tremendous strides.  We kicked butt in the mid-terms.  However, Obama acted on his own, without Congress and handed millions Amnesty.  They are here.  There is no reversing that "promise" without creating a negative tidal wave to the positive we just accomplished.

Negative on who's standard, illegals, Dims, Marxists, socialists rino? Seriously, explain that, I really want to know who sees upholding the laws of the nation, as negative.

QuoteIMO the votes of the mid-terms want Obama policy stopped.  Do you really thing that Obama won't act on his own again to further his agenda?  Thinking that is just plain foolish.

See. There you go again, injecting your prejudice on a whole new Congress, one that has yet to be seated and prove it's worthiness to the country.

Let me see if I can explain. The Marxist is like a caged cat gone feral, he's angry, alone and sees his sentence in this cage as being two more, long and agonizing years.
He and his ideology was rejected by 60% of the nation, while 30% turned their back on him when he needed them most. The way he sees it, he has nothing to lose and will do all the damage he can.

This new Congress knows EXACTLY why they were sent too DC, to stop him, but unfortunately, their hands are tied by procedure and the rule of law, so they will have to move slow and methodically, (you know, follow the rules).
Unless you're suggesting they act like the Marxist, but then, we would no longer be a Republic, would we?

So what does that leave us option wise? well, you could put your helmet back on, run outside screaming, "the sky is falling".
Or, you could stop with this nonsense and wait patiently in "support of the new Congress" and understand, for the process to work, there are laws and procedures to be followed.
We are in new territory, the nation has never experienced a tyrant before, let alone ever dreamed the night mare was possible.

This same unspoken law applies here on the forum as well, we either act like an unruly mob and destroy the nation/forum through anarchy, or act like Conservatives and insist the laws be enforced.

Your choice.