Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:14:54 AM

Title: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:14:54 AM


Boston-Power, a New England-based battery manufacturer. In June, it announced it would build a new manufacturing plant to produce environmentally sustainable lithium-ion batteries, creating 600 green jobs. "Our goal is to make Massachusetts a manufacturing hub for the advanced batteries that will power the nation's clean energy future, and Boston-Power's plan to create this facility in Auburn is a big step toward that goal," said Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. It was exactly the kind of initiative Obama had anticipated when he began shoveling money into green projects, one of the centerpieces of the jobs recovery act. The Massachusetts plant was hailed as a sign that the green jobs renaissance was indeed materializing.

Earlier this month, the company quietly scrapped its plans after it couldn't get stimulus money or an investment commitment from banks to build the plant. Boston-Power is now looking to build in China, where green investment dollars are more readily available.

Very well written article, well worth the read.
http://www.american.com/archive/2009/november/wherefore-art-thou-green-obama (http://www.american.com/archive/2009/november/wherefore-art-thou-green-obama)
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
Was part of the environmental clean up gold rush and this green initiative thing is the same thing. Spend a lot of money and talk about all that was done.  In actuality all that gets done is a lot of money leaves the govt and goes to companies that do quite well because they get paid to hire people and do some work.  The quality or efficiency of the work was never a factor.   

Give me 20 million or 200 million and I will start a business and hire people and we will be going like crazy until that business actually has to make money and not live off of the govt handout.  Then the company folds.  It boggles my mind how that one solar panel company blew through 100's of millions in just a single year and closed with very little in the way of assets.  But no talk of a serious investigation or anything like that.  I wish I had my hands of some kind of green technology because it would be so easy to get some of that Obama money.

Oh a local wind farm just was completed.  Base on the number of houses it can produce electricity for, it cost 7 or 8 thousand per house just to put the wind mills up.  It made no mention of operating cost nor did they say the cost included or excluded grants from the federal government.  I looked around a little and these windmills last for as long as 20 years.  So just the capitalization cost is 3 to 4 hundred dollars a year.  I know the maintenance cost is pretty high on them but I have no idea how much it costs to operate them.  I do not know if the cost included power storage or transmission lines either.  So easy to do business when your costs are covered by the Fed Govt.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
Was part of the environmental clean up gold rush and this green initiative thing is the same thing. Spend a lot of money and talk about all that was done.  In actuality all that gets done is a lot of money leaves the govt and goes to companies that do quite well because they get paid to hire people and do some work.  The quality or efficiency of the work was never a factor.   

Give me 20 million or 200 million and I will start a business and hire people and we will be going like crazy until that business actually has to make money and not live off of the govt handout.  Then the company folds.  It boggles my mind how that one solar panel company blew through 100's of millions in just a single year and closed with very little in the way of assets.  But no talk of a serious investigation or anything like that.  I wish I had my hands of some kind of green technology because it would be so easy to get some of that Obama money.

Oh a local wind farm just was completed.  Base on the number of houses it can produce electricity for, it cost 7 or 8 thousand per house just to put the wind mills up.  It made no mention of operating cost nor did they say the cost included or excluded grants from the federal government.  I looked around a little and these windmills last for as long as 20 years.  So just the capitalization cost is 3 to 4 hundred dollars a year.  I know the maintenance cost is pretty high on them but I have no idea how much it costs to operate them.  I do not know if the cost included power storage or transmission lines either.  So easy to do business when your costs are covered by the Fed Govt.
You definitely get it!
And you are correct in questioning the cost of those wind turbines, that $7000.0 price tag is a complete lie, it might be worth your time to expose the lie, the numbers should be public record, so a little math and an article to the local paper would open a lot of eyes to the big Green Lie.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in. 
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: walkstall on January 23, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in.


I live next to 6 windmills farms within 75 miles of me.  The smallest is about 35 WM's and the largest is about 100 +.  The most I see moving is about 2 in the small one and about 6 in the big one.  The fools put them between 3 dams on the Columbia river.  There 2 farms I see off and on that are not even one is moving.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in.
Ca is a big user of this technology, and are just now learning the scam it has been.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2057224707001/the-cost-of-wind-power/ (http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2057224707001/the-cost-of-wind-power/)
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 02:27:53 PM
It's hard to battle the media.

When they all pound it 24/7 that green is better than religion, and anyone who thinks differently is a criminal, you've got a juggernaut that doesn't really need to succeed at anything.

It's incredible that "new ice age - global burning - global warming - climate change - anthropomorphic - climate equality - climate justice" has been held at bay this long.  But they did get caught lying and cheating awfully badly, and the weather/climate continually doing the opposite of their predictions has helped, lol.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
This is what the left does, throws money at a "problem" and finds some knee jerk solution that fails.

We have enough coal to run our power plants for 200 yrs even if we export half of it to pay off the national debt.

Billy
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 05:51:10 PM
We became a dominant country because of the industrial age which was dependent and fossil fuels. Are we to believe that third world nations are going to become economic powerhouses with the cunning use of windmills and solar panels?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
Would just like to add that the stimulus money, designated for green energy products, didn't just get thrown out because it didn't go to Boston-Power. The funding went to a different company, who has already built a lithium battery for vehicles, and that company, A123 Systems, already has a relationship with car manufactures. It's a big jump to go from producing lithium batteries for Hewlett Packard computers, to making batteries for a Chevy. The Federal Government's money was obviously limited. It sounds to me like they went with the safer bet.

Definitely sucks though. I appreciate any business looking to create green jobs, here in the US. However, if the Federal Government funded every project with potential that debt of ours would be MUCH bigger, and all of you would loose your minds attacking him. Just wanted to provide you another perspective on this.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 06:32:43 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
Would just like to add that the stimulus money, designated for green energy products, didn't just get thrown out because it didn't go to Boston-Power. The funding went to a different company, who has already built a lithium battery for vehicles, and that company, A123 Systems, already has a relationship with car manufactures. It's a big jump to go from producing lithium batteries for Hewlett Packard computers, to making batteries for a Chevy. The Federal Government's money was obviously limited. It sounds to me like they went with the safer bet.

Definitely sucks though. I appreciate any business looking to create green jobs, here in the US. However, if the Federal Government funded every project with potential that debt of ours would be MUCH bigger, and all of you would loose your minds attacking him. Just wanted to provide you another perspective on this.

After getting the stimulus money A123 systems went bankrupt and most of their assets have been bought by the Chinese...
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 06:32:43 PM
After getting the stimulus money A123 systems went bankrupt and most of their assets have been bought by the Chinese...

Sort of true. Was in fact sold to Wanxiang, which is a Chinese company. However, it was sold to the American unit. Meaning the batteries would continue to be produced and sold in the US. Also, there is no way of knowing whether or not the same thing would have happened to Boston-power, had they received the funding. It sounds to me like the same thing that happens when you go all in with quad aces during Texas hold 'em. You never know if the guy across from you has a royal flush, you just make the best bet you possibly can, and say a prayer. Some times it doesn't get answered. That's what it sounds like to me anyway, and for what it's worth, lol.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
Sort of true. Was in fact sold to Wanxiang, which is a Chinese company. However, it was sold to the American unit. Meaning the batteries would continue to be produced and sold in the US. Also, there is no way of knowing whether or not the same thing would have happened to Boston-power, had they received the funding. It sounds to me like the same thing that happens when you go all in with quad aces during Texas hold 'em. You never know if the guy across from you has a royal flush, you just make the best bet you possibly can, and say a prayer. Some times it doesn't get answered. That's what it sounds like to me anyway, and for what it's worth, lol.

Yes, all true but A123 is just one of a string of green companies to go under. Even after taking a government handout. The reality is there is no real "green sector"...
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Yes, all true but A123 is just one of a string of green companies to go under. Even after taking a government handout. The reality is there is no real "green sector"...

And those failures have nothing to do with an ailing economy? It's only because green energy is an absolute failure? That's the only possible answer?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
And those failures have nothing to do with an ailing economy? It's only because green energy is an absolute failure? That's the only possible answer?

The green sector is controlled by the federal government. So it is very difficult to make the argument that the green sector is ailing because the economy is ailing.

We have spent decades and hundreds of billions of dollars on the "green sector". After all that can you right here and now give me an estimate as to when alternative energy sources will become viable?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 07:05:12 PM
The green sector is controlled by the federal government. So it is very difficult to make the argument that the green sector is ailing because the economy is ailing.

We have spent decades and hundreds of billions of dollars on the "green sector". After all that can you right here and now give me an estimate as to when alternative energy sources will become viable?

Lol, you can't say stuff like "the green sector is controlled by the federal government" and be taken seriously. The federal government doesn't control supply and demand. It doesn't decide that one product is better then another, and force people to buy the product they support. Yes, they obviously have a large influence, but in no way does the federal government have "control" over any industry.

As far as an alternative energy source that is about to be viable, yes, flexible solar cells. It has a very good chance of become an incredibly viable, and inexpensive source of alternative energy. Whether or not the energy industry will embrace the technology, and agree to integrate in to the existing market, will be a large determining factor over it's success. I can tell you for sure, that it won't be up to the federal government whether or not it's successful.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 07:19:51 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:14:16 PM
Lol, you can't say stuff like "the green sector is controlled by the federal government" and be taken seriously. The federal government doesn't control supply and demand. It doesn't decide that one product is better then another, and force people to buy the product they support. Yes, they obviously have a large influence, but in no way does the federal government have "control" over any industry.

As far as an alternative energy source that is about to be viable, yes, flexible solar cells. It has a very good chance of become an incredibly viable, and inexpensive source of alternative energy. Whether or not the energy industry will embrace the technology, and agree to integrate in to the existing market, will be a large determining factor over it's success. I can tell you for sure, that it won't be up to the federal government whether or not it's successful.

There is no demand for green technology. Not to the point that it will be profitable. You can laugh all you want and say I can't be taken seriously but haven't we been talking about green companies subsidized by the government?
Let's look at GM. Obama owns them.He made the green car a priority. he pumped billions into the manufacturing of these green cars. He then promised to subsidize everyone that bought one. No one did. The Volt is a complete failure when it is not bursting into flames. And we take a major loss on every one made.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:30:36 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 07:19:51 PM
There is no demand for green technology. Not to the point that it will be profitable. You can laugh all you want and say I can't be taken seriously but haven't we been talking about green companies subsidized by the government?
Let's look at GM. Obama owns them.He made the green car a priority. he pumped billions into the manufacturing of these green cars. He then promised to subsidize everyone that bought one. No one did. The Volt is a complete failure when it is not bursting into flames. And we take a major loss on every one made.

I appreciate that we have got to some substance here. However, saying that the President own GM is totally false! The federal government never took operational control of GM, and all of the money that GM BORROWED from the government, has been paid pack.

Your statement on the Volt though, it totally right!! That thing totally sucks, and it's ridiculously ugly. However, isn't the whole idea behind subsidization is to allow companies to take a risk on something new, with a government safety net? Now, the oil companies continue to collect government subsidies regardless of it being the most profitable industry in the world. That has always baffled me.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:30:53 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
And those failures have nothing to do with an ailing economy? It's only because green energy is an absolute failure? That's the only possible answer?
Absolutely!!!!!
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:30:36 PM
I appreciate that we have got to some substance here. However, saying that the President own GM is totally false! The federal government never took operational control of GM, and all of the money that GM BORROWED from the government, has been paid pack.

Your statement on the Volt though, it totally right!! That thing totally sucks, and it's ridiculously ugly. However, isn't the whole idea behind subsidization is to allow companies to take a risk on something new, with a government safety net? Now, the oil companies continue to collect government subsidies regardless of it being the most profitable industry in the world. That has always baffled me.

After Obama took control of GM who chose the people to replace the managers?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:36:31 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:14:16 PM
Lol, you can't say stuff like "the green sector is controlled by the federal government" and be taken seriously. The federal government doesn't control supply and demand. It doesn't decide that one product is better then another, and force people to buy the product they support. Yes, they obviously have a large influence, but in no way does the federal government have "control" over any industry.

As far as an alternative energy source that is about to be viable, yes, flexible solar cells. It has a very good chance of become an incredibly viable, and inexpensive source of alternative energy. Whether or not the energy industry will embrace the technology, and agree to integrate in to the existing market, will be a large determining factor over it's success. I can tell you for sure, that it won't be up to the federal government whether or not it's successful.
Husein tried to create demand through rebates, killing the coal industry, in turn driving up the over all cost of energy.
He has forced energy suppliers into a quota system, whereby they have to sell a certain amount of so called green energy, or be fined for not reaching that goal.

I've been in the alternative energy industry for more than 20 years, and it was his policies that killed it.
Green energy is dead, the only thing keeping it alive is Govt subsidies.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
Green energy is viable on a smaller scale. Fueling cars and powering cities is never going to work.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
After Obama took control of GM who chose the people to replace the managers?

I assume you are talking about Wagoner, who was in fact appointed by the Obama administration to manage the company through bankruptcy and it's rehabilitation. He did, didn't do a very good job, the administration recognized that, asked him step aside, and then the board picked a new CEO.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:43:56 PM
I assume you are talking about Wagoner, who was in fact appointed by the Obama administration to manage the company through bankruptcy and it's rehabilitation. He did, didn't do a very good job, the administration recognized that, asked him step aside, and then the board picked a new CEO.

What about Dan Akerson? Obama appointed him.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 07:50:30 PM
What about Dan Akerson? Obama appointed him.

I think you are miss informed. Akerson threw his name out there after Wagoner stepped down, but the board voted and picked him. He was not appointed. Now, weather or not the White House lobbied for him, neither of us will never know for sure.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 08:02:45 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
Green energy is viable on a smaller scale. Fueling cars and powering cities is never going to work.
I love it, been living on it exclusively for more than two decades, but the average person can't deal with putting out a hundred grand, or dealing with the fact that you are the one that has to deal with breakdowns, battery replacement, cleaning the panels.
It's not for the faint of heart.
Bottom line, it's a damned expensive lifestyle.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
I think you are miss informed. Akerson threw his name out there after Wagoner stepped down, but the board voted and picked him. He was not appointed. Now, weather or not the White House lobbied for him, neither of us will never know for sure.
He was put on the board by the Obama administration as a  representative of the US Treasury.  Then he was made CEO. Do you really think the board independently appointed him CEO without "influence" by the administration? 
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 08:14:52 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 23, 2013, 08:02:45 PM
I love it, been living on it exclusively for more than two decades, but the average person can't deal with putting out a hundred grand, or dealing with the fact that you are the one that has to deal with breakdowns, battery replacement, cleaning the panels.
It's not for the faint of heart.
Bottom line, it's a damned expensive lifestyle.

What I find fascinating is that the liberals put billions into cars that run on alternative energy and never bothered to build places to refuel them. I can buy an electric car but where do I recharge them? it's not as if I can pull into a truck stop on I95 and plug in. Why would you buy a car if you have to worry about finding a place to recharge it? its the the same with hydrogen. Outside of California where the hell are you going to refuel your hybrid?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
He was put on the board by the Obama administration as a  representative of the US Treasury.  Then he was made CEO. Do you really think the board independently appointed him CEO without "influence" by the administration?

See now, though, that's not what you said. You said that the President appointed him. He didn't have that authority, technically, if you want to say anyone appointed him, he would have appointed himself, because the department of treasury owns the 61%, not the President. He didn't though, he was confirmed by the board. And if that vote was made under duress, do you really think that story wouldn't have gotten out by now?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 08:29:01 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 08:14:52 PM
What I find fascinating is that the liberals put billions into cars that run on alternative energy and never bothered to build places to refuel them. I can buy an electric car but where do I recharge them? it's not as if I can pull into a truck stop on I95 and plug in. Why would you buy a car if you have to worry about finding a place to recharge it? its the the same with hydrogen. Outside of California where the hell are you going to refuel your hybrid?
Not only that, it takes hours to recharge, then there is still that little issue with fires, I quit using lithium batteries because I've had over 90% failure rate, and one fire in a flashlight due to lithium.
Hell, Boeing has grounded the Dreamliner over the lithium battery issue, yet the Govt forced the issue down our throats.

And I have yet to see one hydrogen station in Ca outside the bus station.
Big dreams, big failures, libs just can't seem to stand using proven technology, they are constantly breaking the wheel to see why it rolls so well.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 08:29:32 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
See now, though, that's not what you said. You said that the President appointed him. He didn't have that authority, technically, if you want to say anyone appointed him, he would have appointed himself, because the department of treasury owns the 61%, not the President. He didn't though, he was confirmed by the board. And if that vote was made under duress, do you really think that story wouldn't have gotten out by now?

I only go but what I find. When Akerson and GM and Obama are searched the resulting articles claim he was appointed by Obama...
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:14:16 PM
Lol, you can't say stuff like "the green sector is controlled by the federal government" and be taken seriously. The federal government doesn't control supply and demand. It doesn't decide that one product is better then another, and force people to buy the product they support. Yes, they obviously have a large influence, but in no way does the federal government have "control" over any industry.
They absolutely control the green sector.  To say otherwise makes you look very foolish, young man.

Quote
As far as an alternative energy source that is about to be viable, yes, flexible solar cells. It has a very good chance of become an incredibly viable, and inexpensive source of alternative energy. Whether or not the energy industry will embrace the technology, and agree to integrate in to the existing market, will be a large determining factor over it's success. I can tell you for sure, that it won't be up to the federal government whether or not it's successful.
No, it isn't viable.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 08:50:09 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 08:29:32 PM
I only go but what I find. When Akerson and GM and Obama are searched the resulting articles claim he was appointed by Obama...

Hmmm, very interesting. I googled Akerson GM Obama, and not one result came up stating he was appointed. I wonder if Google is just fucking with us, lol
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 08:50:09 PM
Hmmm, very interesting. I googled Akerson GM Obama, and not one result came up stating he was appointed. I wonder if Google is just fucking with us, lol

He was appointed to the board by the government, and then moved into the CEO position.

Kindly get up to speed on what you discuss.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/daniel_f_akerson/index.html (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/daniel_f_akerson/index.html)
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
Quote from: taxed on January 23, 2013, 08:56:36 PM
He was appointed to the board by the government, and then moved into the CEO position.

Kindly get up to speed on what you discuss.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/daniel_f_akerson/index.html (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/daniel_f_akerson/index.html)

He was appointed to the board, because he Secretary of the Treasury, because the Treasury owned 61% of company after the bailout. Kindly get your facts straight before you sound like a moron.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:14:16 PM
Lol, you can't say stuff like "the green sector is controlled by the federal government" and be taken seriously. The federal government doesn't control supply and demand. It doesn't decide that one product is better then another, and force people to buy the product they support. Yes, they obviously have a large influence, but in no way does the federal government have "control" over any industry.



How can you be taken seriously when you ignore the fact that the Govt
is trying to eleminate traditional forms of energy through regulation and control ala the coal/natural gas/oil industry using the hammer of the EPA
and Dept of interior/BLM.

Billy


Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
He was appointed to the board, because he Secretary of the Treasury, because the Treasury owned 61% of company after the bailout. Kindly get your facts straight before you sound like a moron.

No. He was appointed to the board by the Feds because he represents the Union interests.  He was installed by Obama's task force.

http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/06/12/akerson-admits-gm-bankruptcy-not-well-thought-out (http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/06/12/akerson-admits-gm-bankruptcy-not-well-thought-out)
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
How can you be taken seriously when you ignore the fact that the Govt
is trying to eleminate traditional forms of energy through regulation and control ala the coal/natural gas/oil industry using the hammer of the EPA
and Dept of interior/BLM.

Billy

Alright, I'm happy to bite on this one. So, the government is not trying to eliminate traditional forms of energy, the environment is. The fact is that coal, gas and oil will run out, and we will have a much more serious problem then debating the merits of green energy. Also, the point of the EPA is not destroy traditional energy. It's to make sure that we aren't destroying the entire planet and causing health problems for future generations. Does the EPA need work, absolutely, as do most departments in our current government. I'm not saying these things are perfect by any stretch! Our government needs a serious overhaul in the way we do business. However, eliminating everything is not the answer, from my perspective. If we could have an honest discussion about efficiency and structure, rather then lobbing accusation and yelling at each other, we might be able to figure out a way to correct the course of the organizations.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
Alright, I'm happy to bite on this one. So, the government is not trying to eliminate traditional forms of energy, the environment is. The fact is that coal, gas and oil will run out, and we will have a much more serious problem then debating the merits of green energy. Also, the point of the EPA is not destroy traditional energy. It's to make sure that we aren't destroying the entire planet and causing health problems for future generations. Does the EPA need work, absolutely, as do most departments in our current government. I'm not saying these things are perfect by any stretch! Our government needs a serious overhaul in the way we do business. However, eliminating everything is not the answer, from my perspective. If we could have an honest discussion about efficiency and structure, rather then lobbing accusation and yelling at each other, we might be able to figure out a way to correct the course of the organizations.

We are not running out of natural resources.  That is unfounded liberal propaganda.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 10:03:19 PM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
Alright, I'm happy to bite on this one. So, the government is not trying to eliminate traditional forms of energy, the environment is. The fact is that coal, gas and oil will run out, and we will have a much more serious problem then debating the merits of green energy. Also, the point of the EPA is not destroy traditional energy. It's to make sure that we aren't destroying the entire planet and causing health problems for future generations. Does the EPA need work, absolutely, as do most departments in our current government. I'm not saying these things are perfect by any stretch! Our government needs a serious overhaul in the way we do business. However, eliminating everything is not the answer, from my perspective. If we could have an honest discussion about efficiency and structure, rather then lobbing accusation and yelling at each other, we might be able to figure out a way to correct the course of the organizations.


You are NOT seeing the forest for the trees.

In another post I said we have enough COAL to last 200 years, enough to run every power plant in the United States for 200 years, PLUS sell to other countries like China and make them dance around like characters in one of their street operas.

We have more gas in places like the Dakota's than there is in Saudi Arabia. We have huge reserves of oil on GOVERNMENT LAND that no one is allowed to harvest.

It would be easy to form alliances with freindly nations like Canada and Mexico, Norway and GB and concoct some organization like  NOPEC to sink our greatest economic foe... OPEC....but no, the powers that be dangle "green" in front of us knowing that such technology is decades away....in the mean time America is being driven into the dirt and our best and brightest young men and women are glorified security guards for dirt worshiping heathens in the middle east.

While it is true that we will run out of these resources, we need to take advantage of them NOW while the far off technology catches up. What the Govt is doing is trying to put these industries out of business plain and simple. And it is not our imagination, Steven Chu, Obamao's man in the energy dept said as much.

Billy
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 10:20:01 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 10:03:19 PM

You are NOT seeing the forest for the trees.

In another post I said we have enough COAL to last 200 years, enough to run every power plant in the United States for 200 years, PLUS sell to other countries like China and make them dance around like characters in one of their street operas.

We have more gas in places like the Dakota's than there is in Saudi Arabia. We have huge reserves of oil on GOVERNMENT LAND that no one is allowed to harvest.

It would be easy to form alliances with freindly nations like Canada and Mexico, Norway and GB and concoct some organization like  NOPEC to sink our greatest economic foe... OPEC....but no, the powers that be dangle "green" in front of us knowing that such technology is decades away....in the mean time America is being driven into the dirt and our best and brightest young men and women are glorified security guards for dirt worshiping heathens in the middle east.

While it is true that we will run out of these resources, we need to take advantage of them NOW while the far off technology catches up. What the Govt is doing is trying to put these industries out of business plain and simple. And it is not our imagination, Steven Chu, Obamao's man in the energy dept said as much.

Billy

I personally feel different about where we are with the technology to harness eco-friendly energy technology. That's fine though, it's an argument based on science which I do not want to argue about in this setting. What I would ask you, is whether or not you think there is merit to the idea that maybe the energy industry is the one propagating, saying that the technology isn't ready?
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Byteryder on January 23, 2013, 10:26:58 PM
Certainly we must develop renewable or tap into effectively unlimited sources.

My problem with the way it is being approached is that no one is investigating the consequences of re-arranging the energy distribution in nature.

One can not simply "take from here" and "put there" without unbalancing the system of things.  This is a lesson we supposedly learned in the process of developing our current energy conversions, transportation, and storage infrastructures.

What happens when we capture, move, store, and eventually release (use) a total of 15 terawatts (1.504×10^13 W) a year ?  The material and environmental costs, and the consequences of action may well be far far more expensive and deleterious to the Earth and its Life than what we have now.

Untill we can answer these questions I can not support any profound push in this "Green" BS.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
First before I answer i want you to know that I have built two homes using "off the grid" power sources and wood stove heating. I will be doing some work on a third house this summer and plan to start out
with a completely solar power source and maybe later get into some wind power before the fall. This is not due to compliance with any of Obamao's green objectives but rather because of them.

Anyhow, I don't believe in any "energy company conspiracy" such as you are suggesting. Stop and think about it, the energy companies have huge cash and assets they could eaily convert to "green" IF IT WERE ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE and viable, truth is, the 'green' is not that efficient, not yet.

Also our defense and INFRASTRUCTURE are too much tied to oil, running an apache helicopter on solar power is as far off as running a neighborhood fire truck on a wind turbine or an ambulance on a cell battery.

Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 23, 2013, 10:53:39 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 23, 2013, 08:29:01 PM
Not only that, it takes hours to recharge, then there is still that little issue with fires, I quit using lithium batteries because I've had over 90% failure rate, and one fire in a flashlight due to lithium.
Hell, Boeing has grounded the Dreamliner over the lithium battery issue, yet the Govt forced the issue down our throats.

And I have yet to see one hydrogen station in Ca outside the bus station.
Big dreams, big failures, libs just can't seem to stand using proven technology, they are constantly breaking the wheel to see why it rolls so well.

I guess the Liberal vision is for thousands of people driving through small towns along the highway and knocking on doors asking people if they can plug their cars into their outlets and spend the night.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: walkstall on January 23, 2013, 11:12:35 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 10:53:39 PM
I guess the Liberal vision is for thousands of people driving through small towns along the highway and knocking on doors asking people if they can plug their cars into their outlets and spend the night.

As I remember it is not a standard size outlet, so back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 06:19:39 AM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
How can you be taken seriously when you ignore the fact that the Govt
is trying to eleminate traditional forms of energy through regulation and control ala the coal/natural gas/oil industry using the hammer of the EPA
and Dept of interior/BLM.

Billy
I pointed that out earlier and she completely ignored the post. :blink: :blink:
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 06:26:08 AM
Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 10:20:01 PM
I personally feel different about where we are with the technology to harness eco-friendly energy technology. That's fine though, it's an argument based on science which I do not want to argue about in this setting. What I would ask you, is whether or not you think there is merit to the idea that maybe the energy industry is the one propagating, saying that the technology isn't ready?
Had you read and understood my earlier post, you would know Green energy has no place on the grid, it is a stand alone energy source. Period.

All we need to do is build small reactors in varying communities, at an extremely low cost, and we would have more than enough energy.
But the left doesn't want cheap affordable energy, that would mean a loss of control of the most important sector of our economy, energy.

Are you starting to get the bigger picture now? It never was about the environment, it's always been about control.
Control energy, you control the country. Water is next, mark my word.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 06:51:03 AM
If these libs did even a little research they would easily figure out that Green technology in not cost effective yet.  Some of the technologies never will be as there are limitations as to how efficient they can become.  That is not to say that there are no technologies that increase energy efficiency cost effectively.   The problem is that what is being pushed is more of a game being played than a real desire to come to a better solution.  I think that a desire to do what is most cost effective probably would move to small reactors and I would guess that money would be better spent on research cracking the problems of fusion.  Trucks and cars would have already begun to convert to natural gas.  And I guess the development of better batteries is key to making some of the things they are pushing now like solar and wind power more cost effective.

While I agree that control is one of the issues here, I think the problem is that with energy the free market has been to a great extent removed.  With the regulations and taxes and restrictions, entry into the market is very difficult if not impossible. 

Take Diesel for example which has been around since the 1940's.  The govt taxes it more than gas and has instituted regulations that for decades have limited it as a choice in automobiles.  My Jetta actually has a smaller CO2 foot print than the prius and there is not hundreds of pounds of toxic waste batteries that will need to be dealt with.  Yet auto makers like Jeep,  Subaru, toyota and Nissan have been talking about bringing diesel to the US when it dominates in Europe.  Instead of encouraging a more open market they have all but shut the door so tight that only a few have dared to enter. 
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:05:48 AM
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 06:51:03 AM
If these libs did even a little research they would easily figure out that Green technology in not cost effective yet.  Some of the technologies never will be as there are limitations as to how efficient they can become.  That is not to say that there are no technologies that increase energy efficiency cost effectively.   The problem is that what is being pushed is more of a game being played than a real desire to come to a better solution.  I think that a desire to do what is most cost effective probably would move to small reactors and I would guess that money would be better spent on research cracking the problems of fusion.  Trucks and cars would have already begun to convert to natural gas.  And I guess the development of better batteries is key to making some of the things they are pushing now like solar and wind power more cost effective.

While I agree that control is one of the issues here, I think the problem is that with energy the free market has been to a great extent removed.  With the regulations and taxes and restrictions, entry into the market is very difficult if not impossible. 

Take Diesel for example which has been around since the 1940's.  The govt taxes it more than gas and has instituted regulations that for decades have limited it as a choice in automobiles.  My Jetta actually has a smaller CO2 foot print than the prius and there is not hundreds of pounds of toxic waste batteries that will need to be dealt with.  Yet auto makers like Jeep,  Subaru, toyota and Nissan have been talking about bringing diesel to the US when it dominates in Europe.  Instead of encouraging a more open market they have all but shut the door so tight that only a few have dared to enter.
Sorry Raptor, but not one Green energy will ever be viable, I've been in the industry for more than two decades, even retired as a Defense contractor in the field.
The energy sources have one place, "Stand Alone " systems, tying a low output source into the grid is lunacy, the source energy has to be greater than that of the grid, meaning extreme loss up front, then putting a weak solar array 300+ miles from the grid and trying to push energy that far, equates to using jumper cables a mile long, your car will not start.
All this happy horse shit has always been about control, spend our treasury to kill our energy supply by forcing us to use a more expensive source, Green energy and kill coal, the cheapest of all energy, and you have complete control over the economy.
It was never about the environment, it's always been about destroying Americas infrastructure.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 08:45:29 AM
Solar, I was not really talking about either solar or wind.  As you say the inefficiencies inherent in using them for the grid pretty much eliminates them from efficient utilization of our resources for the reasons you stated.  I always found it pretty humorous watching these tree huggers  pushing for wind power while at the same time reading about all the protests from these same people about putting power lines through their neighborhood. Forget about all the destruction of trees and woods necessary to put them in an area where the wind is undisturbed. 

I guess what I was getting at is that at some time, there will be a form of energy production that will be more efficient than what we have now. Years back in another forum I had a long discussion with another individual who was involved energy and who's father had a PHD in engineering of some kind that worked on developing new ways of producing power.  It was incredibly enlightening and eye opening because some of the crap that is being pushed implies that we are only just beginning to learn about these technologies.   When in fact it is already very established what the theoretical limits are for wind, solar and even combustion engines.  It is also pretty well understood that it would be virtually impossible to hit the theoretical maximum efficiency.  For instance the requirements to increase a cars MPG is nothing more than a way to manipulate the market and force auto makers to incorporate electric into their cars.  Internal combustion engines have very little that is not known about how much of the energy that you put into them is converted to mechanical energy.  Some savings come as they have made the engine a bit more efficient but much of it is by reducing weight and wind resistance.  My car in part gets better mileage because when I am coasting down hill the engine is not getting any fuel so that when I come down a long incline I am effectively getting an infinite number of miles per gallon so my MPG increases not because the engine magically makes more power with each gallon of gas or diesel in my case but because it is making that power less often.  Basically I am saying that so much of this nonsense in DC is just BS that they say to deflect from what is really going on. 

There is not IC engine that can get thousands of miles per gallon unless you are also able to eliminate gravity and air friction.  There are no machines that can produce more energy than they consume and no amount of government regulations is ever going to help us unless they are based on insuring that our country uses the most cost effective means of producing energy that is available.  As it is Libs act like absolute idiots who know zero about anything when they focus on increasing our cost of energy with no understanding about how it will effect our competitiveness in the world economy.  Apparently that pretty simple to understand graph of supply and demand is beyond their comprehension.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 08:45:29 AM
Solar, I was not really talking about either solar or wind.  As you say the inefficiencies inherent in using them for the grid pretty much eliminates them from efficient utilization of our resources for the reasons you stated.  I always found it pretty humorous watching these tree huggers  pushing for wind power while at the same time reading about all the protests from these same people about putting power lines through their neighborhood. Forget about all the destruction of trees and woods necessary to put them in an area where the wind is undisturbed. 

I guess what I was getting at is that at some time, there will be a form of energy production that will be more efficient than what we have now. Years back in another forum I had a long discussion with another individual who was involved energy and who's father had a PHD in engineering of some kind that worked on developing new ways of producing power.  It was incredibly enlightening and eye opening because some of the crap that is being pushed implies that we are only just beginning to learn about these technologies.   When in fact it is already very established what the theoretical limits are for wind, solar and even combustion engines.  It is also pretty well understood that it would be virtually impossible to hit the theoretical maximum efficiency.  For instance the requirements to increase a cars MPG is nothing more than a way to manipulate the market and force auto makers to incorporate electric into their cars.  Internal combustion engines have very little that is not known about how much of the energy that you put into them is converted to mechanical energy.  Some savings come as they have made the engine a bit more efficient but much of it is by reducing weight and wind resistance.  My car in part gets better mileage because when I am coasting down hill the engine is not getting any fuel so that when I come down a long incline I am effectively getting an infinite number of miles per gallon so my MPG increases not because the engine magically makes more power with each gallon of gas or diesel in my case but because it is making that power less often.  Basically I am saying that so much of this nonsense in DC is just BS that they say to deflect from what is really going on. 

There is not IC engine that can get thousands of miles per gallon unless you are also able to eliminate gravity and air friction.  There are no machines that can produce more energy than they consume and no amount of government regulations is ever going to help us unless they are based on insuring that our country uses the most cost effective means of producing energy that is available.  As it is Libs act like absolute idiots who know zero about anything when they focus on increasing our cost of energy with no understanding about how it will effect our competitiveness in the world economy.  Apparently that pretty simple to understand graph of supply and demand is beyond their comprehension.
You are absolutely correct, and I apologize, I completely misread your earlier post, (Dyslexia) is a bitch.
You are correct, it is restrictions on producers that is causing our issues, and all by design of a Marxist Govt.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 05:15:04 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 06:19:39 AM
I pointed that out earlier and she completely ignored the post. :blink: :blink:


It not like it is some big secret conspiracy or something Steven Chu has come out and said as much openly about gasoline/oil

So has Obamao about the coal industry.

Billy
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 05:15:04 PM

It not like it is some big secret conspiracy or something Steven Chu has come out and said as much openly about gasoline/oil

So has Obamao about the coal industry.

Billy
Amazing isn't it? All the evidence is out there for all to see, yet the libs lineup clueless and still carry his water.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Cryptic Bert on January 24, 2013, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
Amazing isn't it? All the evidence is out there for all to see, yet the libs lineup clueless and still carry his water.

And the really pathetic part is they will happily bend over and pay more...
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 07:52:42 PM
And the really pathetic part is they will happily bend over and pay more...
And they will be paying, big time, especially when the bill comes due.
Just the cost of daily living will be a burden on all these kids, but what happens when the world no longer sees the dollar as viable?
That's when these kids will look back and wish they had listened to us.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
And they will be paying, big time, especially when the bill comes due.
Just the cost of daily living will be a burden on all these kids, but what happens when the world no longer sees the dollar as viable?
That's when these kids will look back and wish they had listened to us.

Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited. 
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:26:19 PM
Quote from: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited.
And one day it will inevitably will.
They have only themselves to blame for the future they are creating.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
Quote from: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited.

Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy

Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:33:35 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy
I think it's safe to say it's definitely in their future, assuming we can't turn the country around.
Title: Re: Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure
Post by: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy

:lol:  That why I said if!