Boston-Power, a New England-based battery manufacturer. In June, it announced it would build a new manufacturing plant to produce environmentally sustainable lithium-ion batteries, creating 600 green jobs. "Our goal is to make Massachusetts a manufacturing hub for the advanced batteries that will power the nation's clean energy future, and Boston-Power's plan to create this facility in Auburn is a big step toward that goal," said Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. It was exactly the kind of initiative Obama had anticipated when he began shoveling money into green projects, one of the centerpieces of the jobs recovery act. The Massachusetts plant was hailed as a sign that the green jobs renaissance was indeed materializing.

Earlier this month, the company quietly scrapped its plans after it couldn't get stimulus money or an investment commitment from banks to build the plant. Boston-Power is now looking to build in China, where green investment dollars are more readily available.

Very well written article, well worth the read.
http://www.american.com/archive/2009/november/wherefore-art-thou-green-obama

Was part of the environmental clean up gold rush and this green initiative thing is the same thing. Spend a lot of money and talk about all that was done.  In actuality all that gets done is a lot of money leaves the govt and goes to companies that do quite well because they get paid to hire people and do some work.  The quality or efficiency of the work was never a factor.   

Give me 20 million or 200 million and I will start a business and hire people and we will be going like crazy until that business actually has to make money and not live off of the govt handout.  Then the company folds.  It boggles my mind how that one solar panel company blew through 100's of millions in just a single year and closed with very little in the way of assets.  But no talk of a serious investigation or anything like that.  I wish I had my hands of some kind of green technology because it would be so easy to get some of that Obama money.

Oh a local wind farm just was completed.  Base on the number of houses it can produce electricity for, it cost 7 or 8 thousand per house just to put the wind mills up.  It made no mention of operating cost nor did they say the cost included or excluded grants from the federal government.  I looked around a little and these windmills last for as long as 20 years.  So just the capitalization cost is 3 to 4 hundred dollars a year.  I know the maintenance cost is pretty high on them but I have no idea how much it costs to operate them.  I do not know if the cost included power storage or transmission lines either.  So easy to do business when your costs are covered by the Fed Govt.

Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
Was part of the environmental clean up gold rush and this green initiative thing is the same thing. Spend a lot of money and talk about all that was done.  In actuality all that gets done is a lot of money leaves the govt and goes to companies that do quite well because they get paid to hire people and do some work.  The quality or efficiency of the work was never a factor.   

Give me 20 million or 200 million and I will start a business and hire people and we will be going like crazy until that business actually has to make money and not live off of the govt handout.  Then the company folds.  It boggles my mind how that one solar panel company blew through 100's of millions in just a single year and closed with very little in the way of assets.  But no talk of a serious investigation or anything like that.  I wish I had my hands of some kind of green technology because it would be so easy to get some of that Obama money.

Oh a local wind farm just was completed.  Base on the number of houses it can produce electricity for, it cost 7 or 8 thousand per house just to put the wind mills up.  It made no mention of operating cost nor did they say the cost included or excluded grants from the federal government.  I looked around a little and these windmills last for as long as 20 years.  So just the capitalization cost is 3 to 4 hundred dollars a year.  I know the maintenance cost is pretty high on them but I have no idea how much it costs to operate them.  I do not know if the cost included power storage or transmission lines either.  So easy to do business when your costs are covered by the Fed Govt.

You definitely get it!
And you are correct in questioning the cost of those wind turbines, that $7000.0 price tag is a complete lie, it might be worth your time to expose the lie, the numbers should be public record, so a little math and an article to the local paper would open a lot of eyes to the big Green Lie.

That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in. 

Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in.

I live next to 6 windmills farms within 75 miles of me.  The smallest is about 35 WM's and the largest is about 100 +.  The most I see moving is about 2 in the small one and about 6 in the big one.  The fools put them between 3 dams on the Columbia river.  There 2 farms I see off and on that are not even one is moving.

Quote from: raptor5618 on January 23, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
That was based on numbers posted in the local newspaper and based upon the number of houses it could power.  It gave no info on how that number was attained.  Windmills have a very difficult time in cold weather and they need wind so not sure if they based power output on how much really could be generated or on max output for the whole year.  When you go by a group of WM's you will never see them all running.  So my guess is that power is overstated, cost is understated to only the part that the company had to kick in.  It was the biggest farm built in the state so there are some economies of scale involved but I do not have enough time to gather the infor to put out the real numbers.  I know that they would not be possible or feasible without government kickbacks to pay to have them in.  A 20 year life is at the max. 

Also what they do not talk about is that they have to be built where there are few obstructions and spread out so one is not in the path of another.  So these windmills need to be located in isolated pristine locations.   I am sure they did not include the cost of power-lines because they are never located close to a city because they need undisturbed air.   I know how the libs love to have high tension lines run through their neighborhoods.  Should be fun watching them scream against these new power-lines that are the result of their absurd need to have wind mills.

I did some research on alternative energy sources and they are not cost effective yet and most require huge expanses of land to generate enough to be of much use.   I know you have knowledge of solar but from what little I have seen written by you, it was more of a personal choice than a financial choice.   

The only thing I am certain of is that those who have positioned themselves correctly in the green technology field are sitting back and letting the money roll in.

Ca is a big user of this technology, and are just now learning the scam it has been.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2057224707001/the-cost-of-wind-power/

It's hard to battle the media.

When they all pound it 24/7 that green is better than religion, and anyone who thinks differently is a criminal, you've got a juggernaut that doesn't really need to succeed at anything.

It's incredible that "new ice age - global burning - global warming - climate change - anthropomorphic - climate equality - climate justice" has been held at bay this long.  But they did get caught lying and cheating awfully badly, and the weather/climate continually doing the opposite of their predictions has helped, lol.

This is what the left does, throws money at a "problem" and finds some knee jerk solution that fails.

We have enough coal to run our power plants for 200 yrs even if we export half of it to pay off the national debt.

Billy

We became a dominant country because of the industrial age which was dependent and fossil fuels. Are we to believe that third world nations are going to become economic powerhouses with the cunning use of windmills and solar panels?

Would just like to add that the stimulus money, designated for green energy products, didn't just get thrown out because it didn't go to Boston-Power. The funding went to a different company, who has already built a lithium battery for vehicles, and that company, A123 Systems, already has a relationship with car manufactures. It's a big jump to go from producing lithium batteries for Hewlett Packard computers, to making batteries for a Chevy. The Federal Government's money was obviously limited. It sounds to me like they went with the safer bet.

Definitely sucks though. I appreciate any business looking to create green jobs, here in the US. However, if the Federal Government funded every project with potential that debt of ours would be MUCH bigger, and all of you would loose your minds attacking him. Just wanted to provide you another perspective on this.

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
Would just like to add that the stimulus money, designated for green energy products, didn't just get thrown out because it didn't go to Boston-Power. The funding went to a different company, who has already built a lithium battery for vehicles, and that company, A123 Systems, already has a relationship with car manufactures. It's a big jump to go from producing lithium batteries for Hewlett Packard computers, to making batteries for a Chevy. The Federal Government's money was obviously limited. It sounds to me like they went with the safer bet.

Definitely sucks though. I appreciate any business looking to create green jobs, here in the US. However, if the Federal Government funded every project with potential that debt of ours would be MUCH bigger, and all of you would loose your minds attacking him. Just wanted to provide you another perspective on this.

After getting the stimulus money A123 systems went bankrupt and most of their assets have been bought by the Chinese...

Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 06:32:43 PM
After getting the stimulus money A123 systems went bankrupt and most of their assets have been bought by the Chinese...

Sort of true. Was in fact sold to Wanxiang, which is a Chinese company. However, it was sold to the American unit. Meaning the batteries would continue to be produced and sold in the US. Also, there is no way of knowing whether or not the same thing would have happened to Boston-power, had they received the funding. It sounds to me like the same thing that happens when you go all in with quad aces during Texas hold 'em. You never know if the guy across from you has a royal flush, you just make the best bet you possibly can, and say a prayer. Some times it doesn't get answered. That's what it sounds like to me anyway, and for what it's worth, lol.

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
Sort of true. Was in fact sold to Wanxiang, which is a Chinese company. However, it was sold to the American unit. Meaning the batteries would continue to be produced and sold in the US. Also, there is no way of knowing whether or not the same thing would have happened to Boston-power, had they received the funding. It sounds to me like the same thing that happens when you go all in with quad aces during Texas hold 'em. You never know if the guy across from you has a royal flush, you just make the best bet you possibly can, and say a prayer. Some times it doesn't get answered. That's what it sounds like to me anyway, and for what it's worth, lol.

Yes, all true but A123 is just one of a string of green companies to go under. Even after taking a government handout. The reality is there is no real "green sector"...

Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Yes, all true but A123 is just one of a string of green companies to go under. Even after taking a government handout. The reality is there is no real "green sector"...

And those failures have nothing to do with an ailing economy? It's only because green energy is an absolute failure? That's the only possible answer?

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
And those failures have nothing to do with an ailing economy? It's only because green energy is an absolute failure? That's the only possible answer?

The green sector is controlled by the federal government. So it is very difficult to make the argument that the green sector is ailing because the economy is ailing.

We have spent decades and hundreds of billions of dollars on the "green sector". After all that can you right here and now give me an estimate as to when alternative energy sources will become viable?