Obama Green Bull Shit a Complete Failure

Started by Solar, January 23, 2013, 07:14:54 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Solar

Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
How can you be taken seriously when you ignore the fact that the Govt
is trying to eleminate traditional forms of energy through regulation and control ala the coal/natural gas/oil industry using the hammer of the EPA
and Dept of interior/BLM.

Billy
I pointed that out earlier and she completely ignored the post. :blink: :blink:
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Solar

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 10:20:01 PM
I personally feel different about where we are with the technology to harness eco-friendly energy technology. That's fine though, it's an argument based on science which I do not want to argue about in this setting. What I would ask you, is whether or not you think there is merit to the idea that maybe the energy industry is the one propagating, saying that the technology isn't ready?
Had you read and understood my earlier post, you would know Green energy has no place on the grid, it is a stand alone energy source. Period.

All we need to do is build small reactors in varying communities, at an extremely low cost, and we would have more than enough energy.
But the left doesn't want cheap affordable energy, that would mean a loss of control of the most important sector of our economy, energy.

Are you starting to get the bigger picture now? It never was about the environment, it's always been about control.
Control energy, you control the country. Water is next, mark my word.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

raptor5618

If these libs did even a little research they would easily figure out that Green technology in not cost effective yet.  Some of the technologies never will be as there are limitations as to how efficient they can become.  That is not to say that there are no technologies that increase energy efficiency cost effectively.   The problem is that what is being pushed is more of a game being played than a real desire to come to a better solution.  I think that a desire to do what is most cost effective probably would move to small reactors and I would guess that money would be better spent on research cracking the problems of fusion.  Trucks and cars would have already begun to convert to natural gas.  And I guess the development of better batteries is key to making some of the things they are pushing now like solar and wind power more cost effective.

While I agree that control is one of the issues here, I think the problem is that with energy the free market has been to a great extent removed.  With the regulations and taxes and restrictions, entry into the market is very difficult if not impossible. 

Take Diesel for example which has been around since the 1940's.  The govt taxes it more than gas and has instituted regulations that for decades have limited it as a choice in automobiles.  My Jetta actually has a smaller CO2 foot print than the prius and there is not hundreds of pounds of toxic waste batteries that will need to be dealt with.  Yet auto makers like Jeep,  Subaru, toyota and Nissan have been talking about bringing diesel to the US when it dominates in Europe.  Instead of encouraging a more open market they have all but shut the door so tight that only a few have dared to enter. 
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Solar

Quote from: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 06:51:03 AM
If these libs did even a little research they would easily figure out that Green technology in not cost effective yet.  Some of the technologies never will be as there are limitations as to how efficient they can become.  That is not to say that there are no technologies that increase energy efficiency cost effectively.   The problem is that what is being pushed is more of a game being played than a real desire to come to a better solution.  I think that a desire to do what is most cost effective probably would move to small reactors and I would guess that money would be better spent on research cracking the problems of fusion.  Trucks and cars would have already begun to convert to natural gas.  And I guess the development of better batteries is key to making some of the things they are pushing now like solar and wind power more cost effective.

While I agree that control is one of the issues here, I think the problem is that with energy the free market has been to a great extent removed.  With the regulations and taxes and restrictions, entry into the market is very difficult if not impossible. 

Take Diesel for example which has been around since the 1940's.  The govt taxes it more than gas and has instituted regulations that for decades have limited it as a choice in automobiles.  My Jetta actually has a smaller CO2 foot print than the prius and there is not hundreds of pounds of toxic waste batteries that will need to be dealt with.  Yet auto makers like Jeep,  Subaru, toyota and Nissan have been talking about bringing diesel to the US when it dominates in Europe.  Instead of encouraging a more open market they have all but shut the door so tight that only a few have dared to enter.
Sorry Raptor, but not one Green energy will ever be viable, I've been in the industry for more than two decades, even retired as a Defense contractor in the field.
The energy sources have one place, "Stand Alone " systems, tying a low output source into the grid is lunacy, the source energy has to be greater than that of the grid, meaning extreme loss up front, then putting a weak solar array 300+ miles from the grid and trying to push energy that far, equates to using jumper cables a mile long, your car will not start.
All this happy horse shit has always been about control, spend our treasury to kill our energy supply by forcing us to use a more expensive source, Green energy and kill coal, the cheapest of all energy, and you have complete control over the economy.
It was never about the environment, it's always been about destroying Americas infrastructure.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

raptor5618

Solar, I was not really talking about either solar or wind.  As you say the inefficiencies inherent in using them for the grid pretty much eliminates them from efficient utilization of our resources for the reasons you stated.  I always found it pretty humorous watching these tree huggers  pushing for wind power while at the same time reading about all the protests from these same people about putting power lines through their neighborhood. Forget about all the destruction of trees and woods necessary to put them in an area where the wind is undisturbed. 

I guess what I was getting at is that at some time, there will be a form of energy production that will be more efficient than what we have now. Years back in another forum I had a long discussion with another individual who was involved energy and who's father had a PHD in engineering of some kind that worked on developing new ways of producing power.  It was incredibly enlightening and eye opening because some of the crap that is being pushed implies that we are only just beginning to learn about these technologies.   When in fact it is already very established what the theoretical limits are for wind, solar and even combustion engines.  It is also pretty well understood that it would be virtually impossible to hit the theoretical maximum efficiency.  For instance the requirements to increase a cars MPG is nothing more than a way to manipulate the market and force auto makers to incorporate electric into their cars.  Internal combustion engines have very little that is not known about how much of the energy that you put into them is converted to mechanical energy.  Some savings come as they have made the engine a bit more efficient but much of it is by reducing weight and wind resistance.  My car in part gets better mileage because when I am coasting down hill the engine is not getting any fuel so that when I come down a long incline I am effectively getting an infinite number of miles per gallon so my MPG increases not because the engine magically makes more power with each gallon of gas or diesel in my case but because it is making that power less often.  Basically I am saying that so much of this nonsense in DC is just BS that they say to deflect from what is really going on. 

There is not IC engine that can get thousands of miles per gallon unless you are also able to eliminate gravity and air friction.  There are no machines that can produce more energy than they consume and no amount of government regulations is ever going to help us unless they are based on insuring that our country uses the most cost effective means of producing energy that is available.  As it is Libs act like absolute idiots who know zero about anything when they focus on increasing our cost of energy with no understanding about how it will effect our competitiveness in the world economy.  Apparently that pretty simple to understand graph of supply and demand is beyond their comprehension.
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Solar

Quote from: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 08:45:29 AM
Solar, I was not really talking about either solar or wind.  As you say the inefficiencies inherent in using them for the grid pretty much eliminates them from efficient utilization of our resources for the reasons you stated.  I always found it pretty humorous watching these tree huggers  pushing for wind power while at the same time reading about all the protests from these same people about putting power lines through their neighborhood. Forget about all the destruction of trees and woods necessary to put them in an area where the wind is undisturbed. 

I guess what I was getting at is that at some time, there will be a form of energy production that will be more efficient than what we have now. Years back in another forum I had a long discussion with another individual who was involved energy and who's father had a PHD in engineering of some kind that worked on developing new ways of producing power.  It was incredibly enlightening and eye opening because some of the crap that is being pushed implies that we are only just beginning to learn about these technologies.   When in fact it is already very established what the theoretical limits are for wind, solar and even combustion engines.  It is also pretty well understood that it would be virtually impossible to hit the theoretical maximum efficiency.  For instance the requirements to increase a cars MPG is nothing more than a way to manipulate the market and force auto makers to incorporate electric into their cars.  Internal combustion engines have very little that is not known about how much of the energy that you put into them is converted to mechanical energy.  Some savings come as they have made the engine a bit more efficient but much of it is by reducing weight and wind resistance.  My car in part gets better mileage because when I am coasting down hill the engine is not getting any fuel so that when I come down a long incline I am effectively getting an infinite number of miles per gallon so my MPG increases not because the engine magically makes more power with each gallon of gas or diesel in my case but because it is making that power less often.  Basically I am saying that so much of this nonsense in DC is just BS that they say to deflect from what is really going on. 

There is not IC engine that can get thousands of miles per gallon unless you are also able to eliminate gravity and air friction.  There are no machines that can produce more energy than they consume and no amount of government regulations is ever going to help us unless they are based on insuring that our country uses the most cost effective means of producing energy that is available.  As it is Libs act like absolute idiots who know zero about anything when they focus on increasing our cost of energy with no understanding about how it will effect our competitiveness in the world economy.  Apparently that pretty simple to understand graph of supply and demand is beyond their comprehension.
You are absolutely correct, and I apologize, I completely misread your earlier post, (Dyslexia) is a bitch.
You are correct, it is restrictions on producers that is causing our issues, and all by design of a Marxist Govt.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

BILLY Defiant

Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 06:19:39 AM
I pointed that out earlier and she completely ignored the post. :blink: :blink:


It not like it is some big secret conspiracy or something Steven Chu has come out and said as much openly about gasoline/oil

So has Obamao about the coal industry.

Billy
Evil operates best when it is disguised for what it truly is.

Solar

Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 05:15:04 PM

It not like it is some big secret conspiracy or something Steven Chu has come out and said as much openly about gasoline/oil

So has Obamao about the coal industry.

Billy
Amazing isn't it? All the evidence is out there for all to see, yet the libs lineup clueless and still carry his water.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Cryptic Bert

Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
Amazing isn't it? All the evidence is out there for all to see, yet the libs lineup clueless and still carry his water.

And the really pathetic part is they will happily bend over and pay more...

Solar

Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 07:52:42 PM
And the really pathetic part is they will happily bend over and pay more...
And they will be paying, big time, especially when the bill comes due.
Just the cost of daily living will be a burden on all these kids, but what happens when the world no longer sees the dollar as viable?
That's when these kids will look back and wish they had listened to us.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

walkstall

Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
And they will be paying, big time, especially when the bill comes due.
Just the cost of daily living will be a burden on all these kids, but what happens when the world no longer sees the dollar as viable?
That's when these kids will look back and wish they had listened to us.

Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited.
And one day it will inevitably will.
They have only themselves to blame for the future they are creating.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

BILLY Defiant

Quote from: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
Just think, for the rest of there lives they will be wondering if the next gov check will be deposited.

Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy

Evil operates best when it is disguised for what it truly is.

Solar

Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy
I think it's safe to say it's definitely in their future, assuming we can't turn the country around.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

walkstall

Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
Well they better start thinking about what happens when the check doesn't get deposited.

Unless I miss my surmise, that day is in their future as well.

Billy

:lol:  That why I said if!
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."