Quote from: Shooterman on October 06, 2010, 08:20:41 AM
PUBS and conservatives have a saying, ( or use to ) expressed on The Loose Nut Forum and other forums, so many, many times; "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." 

'Twas said so many times, it became nauseating. How a different 'PROTECTOR' of the Constitution changes the tone, eh?



Disclaimer; not directed at you, Quill, but PUBS and conservatives in general.

I've come around from the days at LNF where I did say that very thing. The Electronic Freedom Frontier and numerous other privacy advocates reshaped my thinking.

Quote from: quiller on October 08, 2010, 07:11:21 AM
I've come around from the days at LNF where I did say that very thing. The Electronic Freedom Frontier and numerous other privacy advocates reshaped my thinking.

My complaint with Shooterman was the disclaimer line where he talks about us in general. That's putting words in our mouths and I take exception to that when it mischaracterizes my position.  ;)

Quote from: Dan on October 08, 2010, 07:15:36 AM
My complaint with Shooterman was the disclaimer line where he talks about us in general. That's putting words in our mouths and I take exception to that when it mischaracterizes my position.  ;)

Then start a new thread and add the posts referring to that argument, and see where the discussion leads. Here, it's about privacy issues. There really is a way to hack in to see whatever your computer camera is seeing. The government does not need a search warrant to come on to your property and place an electronic tracking device in or on your car. Obama is now asking banks to report ALL financial amounts sent overseas. The list of governmental encroachment continues at break-neck pace.

If you have nothing to worry about, then you're the one NOT banking on-line, or filing tax returns on-line. Best of luck to anyone else.

How am I in danger if I pay my electric bill and water bill online? I don't have overseas accounts where I am attempting to hide income or assets. As for my tax returns, the government already has copies if those too.

Quiller, you've always been polite to me. And I am not trying to be discourteous to you. I just don't get your point.

Quote from: quiller on October 08, 2010, 07:21:57 AM
Then start a new thread and add the posts referring to that argument, and see where the discussion leads. Here, it's about privacy issues. There really is a way to hack in to see whatever your computer camera is seeing. The government does not need a search warrant to come on to your property and place an electronic tracking device in or on your car. Obama is now asking banks to report ALL financial amounts sent overseas. The list of governmental encroachment continues at break-neck pace.

If you have nothing to worry about, then you're the one NOT banking on-line, or filing tax returns on-line. Best of luck to anyone else.

This was all into play under 'Dubya, Obama is just embracing and expanding it.

Quote from: Dan on October 08, 2010, 02:42:24 PM
How am I in danger if I pay my electric bill and water bill online? I don't have overseas accounts where I am attempting to hide income or assets. As for my tax returns, the government already has copies if those too.

Quiller, you've always been polite to me. And I am not trying to be discourteous to you. I just don't get your point.

Keeping a carbon from the tri-fold form-set used to run credit-cards can yield the number of your account just as fast as reading the actual form it comes with. Old-school fraud, before the 'Net.

On-line, they hack into credit-card company accounts and in many cases go after small amounts under $20, figuring many people won't challenge the amount on their monthly bill. (Surprisingly the scammers are right: people don't read their bills as closely as you'd expect.)

For more about privacy issues, see more here....   http://www.eff.org/

So is the concern identity theft from criminals or giving access to your information to the government?

Quite frankly the legitimate businesses are also intrusive in their behavior. Some allow smart ads to look at the websites you've visited and tailor the ads accordingly. But it's not like I go to websites dedicated to hairless Filapino men so once again I really am not that concerned for myself personally.

Quote from: quiller on October 06, 2010, 08:03:07 AM
Used to be, you could close your door and the outside world wouldn't bother you. You had privacy, such as it was, unless you did anything weird in your front window or doorway.

Then came the min-cam, not just the hand-held models but also the computer-mounted editions that hackers have now found a way to monitor, even against your will.

And there's the heat-sensors that big-city drug units are starting to use, driving down streets in search of heat signatures telling of grow-house operations. And the airline body scanners that show every nook and crevice on what was formerly your VERY private body.

There are scanners fully capable of monitoring your cell-phone calls, and every phone out there now has GPS tracking built in. If you call someone powerful enough, you can BET they have a fast way to find you.

So what to make of our privacy loss --- and the Tea Party silence on this fundamental issue? For this I turn (surprising even me) to ultra-liberal columnist Glenn Greenwald over at Salon, as interpreted by Nat Hentoff (a guy who started off as ultra-liberal in the Village Voice), who is sounding more conservative with every passing year.....

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=211885

The left wants privacy gone. Obama is dangerous to every American for leading that charge.

And of course we hear nothing but crickets from the left. My how things change.

Quote from: Dan on October 08, 2010, 06:25:22 AM
He's new to the forum and doesn't know anyone yet. My guess is that he saw Shooterman and AF attacking conservatives and just instinctively assumed they were liberals. Not sure, but I could easily see that sort of misunderstanding.  ;)

Now c'mon Dan, I was not "attacking" conservatives.  I was simply insisting that conservatives be intellectually honest about this whole "big brother is watching you" thing.  I'm with you.  I have no problem with the Patriot Act, and my position has not changed, no matter WHO is the President.  But, as I stated earlier, ANY law that COULD be abused by the federal government probably WILL be abused, especially by the anti-Constitutionalist liberals.

AF, you used a generalization to call us hypocrites. A qualification would have been more polite since the generalization mischaracterized the position of many Republicans like myself. I didn't take exception to what you said because I honestly Did not think you meant any harm, but I wish you would qualify your statements in the future when they mischaracterize my position.