The South should have responded unmercifully.
Just my opinion.



SEOUL (AFP) – North Korea fired dozens of artillery shells onto a South Korean island on Tuesday, killing one person, setting homes ablaze and triggering an exchange of fire as the South's military went on top alert.

In what appeared to be one of the most serious border incidents since the 1950-53 war, South Korean troops fired back with cannon, the government convened in an underground war room and "multiple" air force jets scrambled.

The firing came after North Korea's disclosure of an apparently operational uranium enrichment programme -- a second potential way of building a nuclear bomb -- which is causing serious alarm for the United States and its allies.

Some 50 shells landed on the South Korean border island of Yeonpyeong near the tense Yellow Sea border, damaging dozens of houses and sending plumes of thick smoke into the air, YTN television reported.

One South Korean marine -- part of a contingent based permanently on the frontline island -- was killed and 13 other marines were wounded, the military said. YTN said two civilians were also hurt.

"A Class-A military alert issued for battle situations was imposed immediately after shelling began," a military spokesman said.

Sporadic firing by each side continued for over an hour before dying out, the military said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123/wl_afp/nkoreaskoreamilitarynuclearweapons_20101123092327

Maybe none of us should buy Hyundais or Kias or anything made by Samsung or LG?  Just a thought.

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 23, 2010, 06:16:39 AM
Maybe none of us should buy Hyundais or Kias or anything made by Samsung or LG?  Just a thought.

Why?

All South Korean companies.  If South Korea and North Korea enter into all-out war................

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 23, 2010, 10:06:22 AM
All South Korean companies.  If South Korea and North Korea enter into all-out war................

That makes no sense at all, the South was attacked for no reason whatsoever, and you want to cut and run?
SK, Japan, are both trading partners, if SK falls, Japan is in danger, and so are we.

If for no other reason, we need to keep SK for their strategic location, they are our buffer against China.

Quote from: Solar on November 23, 2010, 10:17:01 AM
That makes no sense at all, the South was attacked for no reason whatsoever, and you want to cut and run?
SK, Japan, are both trading partners, if SK falls, Japan is in danger, and so are we.

If for no other reason, we need to keep SK for their strategic location, they are our buffer against China.

No, no, no.  You're misunderstanding my point, Solar.  As crazy as Kim Jong Il is, it would not surprise me if he pulls a "blitzkrieg" on South Korea and overruns the South Korean and American forces on the border.  Seoul is very vulnerable.  Hell South Korea is very vunerable, because the POTUS is a pile of shit, and his response will more than likely be to try to TALK Kim Jong Il into submission.

It's all well and good that the U.N. and the USA and Russia and China and Japan have all "condemned" this North Korean attack, but WHO is going to step up to the plate if North Korea takes their "million man army" and launches an all-out offensive on South Korea?

My point about Hyundai and Kia and Samsung and LG is that these companies will be BANKRUPT in short order if their manufacturing and parts facilities are destroyed by North Korea, or even if the rest of the world considers South Korea to be very vulnerable to an attack and occupation by North Korea.

With the limp wienie we have in the White House, we won't do much unless the North Koreans go after Washington, DC. (And if I had to choose a spot for them to start... that would probably be it.  :)) )

China may have condemned NK's actions, but I think it would be a grave mistake to think that they would ever side with the South Koreans in a serious conflict. It hasn't been so many years ago that China nearly tipped the balance in a war that was waged by the North Koreans and the Chinese with the express intent of uniting the Korean peninsula under Communist rule. Recall also that the Soviets were conspicuously neutral with regard to the overt aggression of the North Koreans and the Chinese.

Don't shit yourself, Tbone. The Russkis had some pilots flying Mig-15s in sortes against the US. Also think on this, China at the time was just basi9cally getting over their revolution. They were still pretty weak. Stalin was calling the shots almost from day one. I'm convinced when the Security Council met to vote on whether the US should keep it's troops there, Molotov, the Russian Ambassodor to the UN was conveniently absent. Joe Stalin wanted that war. He wanted to pit his technology against the Americans. He still had the best tank and the best fighter. The terrain is not particularly suited to tanks, but there were some tank battles on the more open plains of the country. My basic training Field First Sargent was a Medal of Honor recipient because of the tank fighting.

No, Uncle Joe called the shots. 

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 23, 2010, 06:16:39 AM
Maybe none of us should buy Hyundais or Kias or anything made by Samsung or LG?  Just a thought.

I don't see what good that would do us excpet promote a lot of ill will. Besides, the Kia sportage is not all that bad a little unit.... ;) South Korean is a US ally AND trade partner, they buy lots of goods.

It is NORTH Korea that is sanctioned and NORTH Korea that is selling a lot of their crap products vicariously thru their Buds the Chinese. If you wnat to impact that stop buyin anything made in China...or their NORK ally.


Billy

Quote from: tbone0106 on November 23, 2010, 10:47:39 AM
With the limp wienie we have in the White House, we won't do much unless the North Koreans go after Washington, DC. (And if I had to choose a spot for them to start... that would probably be it.  :)) )

China may have condemned NK's actions, but I think it would be a grave mistake to think that they would ever side with the South Koreans in a serious conflict. It hasn't been so many years ago that China nearly tipped the balance in a war that was waged by the North Koreans and the Chinese with the express intent of uniting the Korean peninsula under Communist rule. Recall also that the Soviets were conspicuously neutral with regard to the overt aggression of the North Koreans and the Chinese.

All they have to do is invite Ayers over for dinner....   

Quote from: Shooterman on November 23, 2010, 03:20:15 PM
Don't shit yourself, Tbone. The Russkis had some pilots flying Mig-15s in sortes against the US. Also think on this, China at the time was just basi9cally getting over their revolution. They were still pretty weak. Stalin was calling the shots almost from day one. I'm convinced when the Security Council met to vote on whether the US should keep it's troops there, Molotov, the Russian Ambassodor to the UN was conveniently absent. Joe Stalin wanted that war. He wanted to pit his technology against the Americans. He still had the best tank and the best fighter. The terrain is not particularly suited to tanks, but there were some tank battles on the more open plains of the country. My basic training Field First Sargent was a Medal of Honor recipient because of the tank fighting.
No, Uncle Joe called the shots.

Shooter, the F-86 proved itself to be a superior fighter jet to the Mig-15.  There really is no doubt about that. 

Also, it was the CHINESE Army that drove the U.S., er, "U.N." forces, out of North Korea and back into South Korea.  Tens of thousands of CHINESE soldiers made life a living hell for the U.S. troops.

Billy, I wasn't suggesting that we boycott South Korean cars and electronics and appliances.  I was merely making the point that South Korea is vulnerable to attack from that wack job up north, and I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the Kenyan's ability or resolve to defend our allies against aggression.

Hyundai and Kia and Samsung and LG all make quality stuff...........a helluva lot better than anything coming out of China.

Quote from: Shooterman on November 23, 2010, 03:20:15 PM
Don't shit yourself, Tbone. The Russkis had some pilots flying Mig-15s in sortes against the US. Also think on this, China at the time was just basi9cally getting over their revolution. They were still pretty weak. Stalin was calling the shots almost from day one. I'm convinced when the Security Council met to vote on whether the US should keep it's troops there, Molotov, the Russian Ambassodor to the UN was conveniently absent. Joe Stalin wanted that war. He wanted to pit his technology against the Americans. He still had the best tank and the best fighter. The terrain is not particularly suited to tanks, but there were some tank battles on the more open plains of the country. My basic training Field First Sargent was a Medal of Honor recipient because of the tank fighting.

No, Uncle Joe called the shots.

(Wiping my ass, I guess...)

I'm not sure how I got roped into this discussion, but here goes...

Yeah, Stalin wanted it. So did Mao. So did Patton, except he was dead. Mao wanted to know what we had. Stalin -- thanks to a legion of spies -- already knew what we had.

The Russkies reverse-engineered almost every military advance they claimed during the 1940s, the 1950s, and into the 1960s. They let us invent it, build it, test it etc. and then stole the plans or stole a prototype and figured out how to do it themselves.

Example: the Tu-4 was a copy of Boeing's B-29. The copy was SO true that the Tu-4 was plagued with exactly the same problems that haunted the B-29.

The Soviet tanks were, like the American Shermans, EVERYWHERE. A German Tiger tank, with a single shot, could blow a Sherman or a T-37 to pieces. But the Tigers had to fend off dozens or hundreds of Shermans and T-37s. Sooner or later, one of those limp-dick 75mm rounds lands in the right spot....

Best fighter? If you're talking about fighter planes, you're wrong. The late-war YAKs were good, but never reached the level of sophistication, and more imporantly, the level of deployment, that thrust the North American P-51 to the top of the heap. Actually, I'd put the Mustang AND the Republic P-47 over and above anything the Soviets ever flew.

Just my opinion, of course.

Quote from: tbone0106 on November 23, 2010, 08:19:34 PM


(Wiping my ass, I guess...)

I'm not sure how I got roped into this discussion, but here goes...

Yeah, Stalin wanted it. So did Mao. So did Patton, except he was dead. Mao wanted to know what we had. Stalin -- thanks to a legion of spies -- already knew what we had.

The Russkies reverse-engineered almost every military advance they claimed during the 1940s, the 1950s, and into the 1960s. They let us invent it, build it, test it etc. and then stole the plans or stole a prototype and figured out how to do it themselves.

Example: the Tu-4 was a copy of Boeing's B-29. The copy was SO true that the Tu-4 was plagued with exactly the same problems that haunted the B-29.

The Soviet tanks were, like the American Shermans, EVERYWHERE. A German Tiger tank, with a single shot, could blow a Sherman or a T-37 to pieces. But the Tigers had to fend off dozens or hundreds of Shermans and T-37s. Sooner or later, one of those limp-dick 75mm rounds lands in the right spot....

Best fighter? If you're talking about fighter planes, you're wrong. The late-war YAKs were good, but never reached the level of sophistication, and more imporantly, the level of deployment, that thrust the North American P-51 to the top of the heap. Actually, I'd put the Mustang AND the Republic P-47 over and above anything the Soviets ever flew.

Just my opinion, of course.

Of course I knew about the B-29. But, and there is a but, the Yak was prop driven. The Mig-15 was the finest fighter in the world until we developed the F-86. The 51 was the best of WWII, but not of the Korean War. At first, our operational jet was the P-80 and it was woefully inadequate against the Mig. Good pilots with the F-86 could hold their own.

Quote from: Shooterman on November 23, 2010, 03:20:15 PM
Don't shit yourself, Tbone. The Russkis had some pilots flying Mig-15s in sortes against the US. Also think on this, China at the time was just basi9cally getting over their revolution. They were still pretty weak. Stalin was calling the shots almost from day one. I'm convinced when the Security Council met to vote on whether the US should keep it's troops there, Molotov, the Russian Ambassodor to the UN was conveniently absent. Joe Stalin wanted that war. He wanted to pit his technology against the Americans. He still had the best tank and the best fighter. The terrain is not particularly suited to tanks, but there were some tank battles on the more open plains of the country. My basic training Field First Sargent was a Medal of Honor recipient because of the tank fighting.

No, Uncle Joe called the shots.

OOPS! I think I missed the point of your post, or rather didn't make my own point very well. What I meant was that the Russians are being relatively quiet NOW about the Korean thing. If it gets to the point where they have to side, they likely will side with the North Koreans, as they always have.

New York Times, this morning....

====


WASHINGTON — President Obama and South Korea's president agreed Tuesday night to hold joint military exercises as a first response to North Korea's deadly shelling of a South Korean military installation, as both countries struggled for the second time this year to keep a North Korean provocation from escalating into war.

Members of the South Korean Red Cross in Inchon loaded supplies bound for Yeonpyeong Island on Wednesday after it was shelled by North Korea.

The exercise will include sending the aircraft carrier George Washington and a number of accompanying ships into the region, both to deter further attacks by the North and to signal to China that unless it reins in its unruly ally it will see an even larger American presence in the vicinity.

The decision came after Mr. Obama attended the end of an emergency session in the White House Situation Room and then emerged to call President Lee Myung-bak of South Korea to express American solidarity and talk about a coordinated response.

But as a former national security official who dealt frequently with North Korea in the Bush administration, Victor Cha, said just a few hours before the attack began, North Korea is "the land of lousy options."

Mr. Obama is once again forced to choose among unpalatable choices: responding with verbal condemnations and a modest tightening of sanctions, which has done little to halt new attacks; starting military exercises that are largely symbolic; or reacting strongly, which could risk a broad war in which South Korea's capital, Seoul, would be the first target.

The decision to send the aircraft carrier came as the South Korean military went into what it termed "crisis status." President Lee said he would order strikes on a North Korean base if there were indications of new attacks.

MORE = http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/world/asia/24nkorea.html?_r=1&hp

===

For the life of me, I can't see this as a political win for Hillary Clinton if the diplomatic end does succeed and further military action is prevented. Obama will grab all credit.

Then again, if it does go to reopening the Korean Conflict and breaking the 50+ year truce, does Obama have what it takes to turn this into HIS political victory?

Rhetorical, I know. Lousy options, lousy president.