Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 09:17:37 PM
It's all moot. She lost to Reid. At some future time she may run for something else, but she will have a certain hill to climb whatever she does.

She beat Reid.

I knew I was walking out on a limb armed with a chainsaw with this one. Let's see if I can figure out which side to cut on.

Nothing -- not one word of my post -- said that I support extreme views, such as dismantling SS tomorrow.

The entire point of my post was to show that, based on my reading, neither does zip. And, of course, neither do you.

I know I'm stepping into the middle of this one, but I honestly don't see the point in pounding zip to smithereens for stating the obvious.

I don't think Angle is extreme in her views, and neither do you, and neither does zip. And you know that as well as I do. As far as I'm concerned, based on what I've read, Angle never suggested that SS be dismantled, and zip never claimed she did.

Quote from: tbone0106 on December 03, 2010, 09:37:10 PM
I knew I was walking out on a limb armed with a chainsaw with this one. Let's see if I can figure out which side to cut on.

Nothing -- not one word of my post -- said that I support extreme views, such as dismantling SS tomorrow.

I know, that wasn't my point.  My point is that if you agree with Zip, then you think Angle is extreme on SS.

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The entire point of my post was to show that, based on my reading, neither does zip. And, of course, neither do you.

No, and this goes with me posting with Zip for a while...  he will say Angle/O'Donnell are extreme and can't win because of their stances on SS (the twisted version).

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I know I'm stepping into the middle of this one, but I honestly don't see the point in pounding zip to smithereens for stating the obvious.

He deserves it.....  I let him slide way too much...

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I don't think Angle is extreme in her views, and neither do you, and neither does zip.

Yes he does...

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And you know that as well as I do. As far as I'm concerned, based on what I've read, Angle never suggested that SS be dismantled, and zip never claimed she did.

He said Angle would eliminate SS.  Yes, phasing it out is eliminating it, but if you walk up to an old person and tell them either a) eliminating, or b) phasing out over time, not affecting current payouts, then there is a difference.  Zip says the tea party candidates support the first.

Quote from: taxed on December 03, 2010, 09:53:54 PM
He said Angle would eliminate SS.  Yes, phasing it out is eliminating it, but if you walk up to an old person and tell them either a) eliminating, or b) phasing out over time, not affecting current payouts, then there is a difference.  Zip says the tea party candidates support the first.

Nope, you can't get by that cheaply. Sharron Angle did not say these words: "I would ELIMINATE Social Security." While I readily recognize that her arguments advocate the eventual and gradual elimination of SS -- I will until I die support that position, by the way -- she did not use those words. Her public position on SS is no more extreme than many other who claim to be leading lights in the "new" conservative wave.

I can't find any evidence that zip says that tea party candidates support eliminating SS. Where is it? Show it to me.

I think that maybe we can all agree that replacing the current SS system would be a REALLY good idea. I think we can probably all agree that the OP was badly titled, since it was a truncated version of the truth -- that poll results talked about in the OP favor the EXISTING SS tax structure being extended to higher wage earners. The poll's respondents don't want SS taxes to go up. They want the more wealthy to pay the tax all the way -- beyond the current cutoff income. It's not really disputed that the SS tax structure (and it IS a tax structure, not a system of 'contributions') is just as regressive as a tax can be. It has the limited attractiveness of a flat tax... but then it falls on its idiotic face.

Walking up to an old person and telling that person that you're going to mess with SS in any way, shape or form is going to get you some scorn. Do it in public enough times, no matter what your intent, and it gets really tough to get elected.

And no, I don't see where zip said that tea party candidates support eliminating SS. I've been careful. I don't see it.

Quote from: tbone0106 on December 03, 2010, 10:47:21 PM
Nope, you can't get by that cheaply. Sharron Angle did not say these words: "I would ELIMINATE Social Security." While I readily recognize that her arguments advocate the eventual and gradual elimination of SS -- I will until I die support that position, by the way -- she did not use those words. Her public position on SS is no more extreme than many other who claim to be leading lights in the "new" conservative wave.

I can't find any evidence that zip says that tea party candidates support eliminating SS. Where is it? Show it to me.

I think that maybe we can all agree that replacing the current SS system would be a REALLY good idea. I think we can probably all agree that the OP was badly titled, since it was a truncated version of the truth -- that poll results talked about in the OP favor the EXISTING SS tax structure being extended to higher wage earners. The poll's respondents don't want SS taxes to go up. They want the more wealthy to pay the tax all the way -- beyond the current cutoff income. It's not really disputed that the SS tax structure (and it IS a tax structure, not a system of 'contributions') is just as regressive as a tax can be. It has the limited attractiveness of a flat tax... but then it falls on its idiotic face.

Walking up to an old person and telling that person that you're going to mess with SS in any way, shape or form is going to get you some scorn. Do it in public enough times, no matter what your intent, and it gets really tough to get elected.

And no, I don't see where zip said that tea party candidates support eliminating SS. I've been careful. I don't see it.

   You may very well die supporting that position like most of us will....
Tbone your just like a few others here...you refuse to get the message, you refuse because you want what you want and you cant see that your a minority and you wont accept that it wont happen..

   Phase out schamaze out...Kill it, end it, cut it, slice it dice it freeze it...DOESNT MATTER what the words are its what the electorate percieves it to be...and they percieve that you had better leave theirs the F alone whether thats right or wrong doesnt matter.
    It doesnt matter what taxed and solar thinks either..angle lost that election and the biggest thing aiding that loss was reid hammering her on statements she made about social security and the ELECTORATE PERCIEVED he was right and she was wrong.....got it guys ?

    Now you can say it aint so all ya want but it is so. :)

Quote from: zip on December 04, 2010, 05:26:03 AM
   You may very well die supporting that position like most of us will....
Tbone your just like a few others here...you refuse to get the message, you refuse because you want what you want and you cant see that your a minority and you wont accept that it wont happen..

   Phase out schamaze out...Kill it, end it, cut it, slice it dice it freeze it...DOESNT MATTER what the words are its what the electorate percieves it to be...and they percieve that you had better leave theirs the F alone whether thats right or wrong doesnt matter.
    It doesnt matter what taxed and solar thinks either..angle lost that election and the biggest thing aiding that loss was reid hammering her on statements she made about social security and the ELECTORATE PERCIEVED he was right and she was wrong.....got it guys ?

    Now you can say it aint so all ya want but it is so. :)

     What will work is killing it or drastically changing it for younger workers and not touching or changing anything for the baby boomers...If they gop and teaparty does start on that they need to EXPLAIN IT clearly because the democrats are going to have their ammo aimed at the babyboomers and if the boomers dont like it, gonna be tough.
     In my mind it would be incredibly stupid for the GOP and teaparty to jump on SS right out of the box...before taking on obamacare and spending cuts...but who am I just one vote.....the cuts couldnt even pass Obamas deficit panel that they created.

Quote from: taxed on December 03, 2010, 09:27:01 PM
She beat Reid.

SAY FREAKING WHAT!

Quote from: zip on December 04, 2010, 05:26:03 AM
   You may very well die supporting that position like most of us will....
Tbone your just like a few others here...you refuse to get the message, you refuse because you want what you want and you cant see that your a minority and you wont accept that it wont happen..

   Phase out schamaze out...Kill it, end it, cut it, slice it dice it freeze it...DOESNT MATTER what the words are its what the electorate percieves it to be...and they percieve that you had better leave theirs the F alone whether thats right or wrong doesnt matter.
    It doesnt matter what taxed and solar thinks either..angle lost that election and the biggest thing aiding that loss was reid hammering her on statements she made about social security and the ELECTORATE PERCIEVED he was right and she was wrong.....got it guys ?

    Now you can say it aint so all ya want but it is so. :)

Zip, I don't know where you get your info, but the rest of the thinking World knows Angle won the election and that Reid and the SEIU flat out stole it.
Look at the Rasmussen polls if you don't believe me.

And the rest of the Country is begging for someone to change/save SS, quit watching MSNBS.

Quote from: zip on December 04, 2010, 05:26:03 AM
   You may very well die supporting that position like most of us will....
Tbone your just like a few others here...you refuse to get the message, you refuse because you want what you want and you cant see that your a minority and you wont accept that it wont happen..

   Phase out schamaze out...Kill it, end it, cut it, slice it dice it freeze it...DOESNT MATTER what the words are its what the electorate percieves it to be...and they percieve that you had better leave theirs the F alone whether thats right or wrong doesnt matter.
    It doesnt matter what taxed and solar thinks either..angle lost that election and the biggest thing aiding that loss was reid hammering her on statements she made about social security and the ELECTORATE PERCIEVED he was right and she was wrong.....got it guys ?

    Now you can say it aint so all ya want but it is so. :)

No! No! No! Angle beat Reid. So says Taxed.

My Grandfather's generation paid nothing into the social security system (born 1895), while my parents paid into social security all of their working life.  My (our) parents paid nowhere close to the percent of income that subsequent generations paid in.  As the government 'borrowed' from the social security trust fund, they also both increased contributions (taxes) for employers and employees and expanded liberal benefits to people who may have never contributed a dime to the fund. (eg: "disabled" drug and alcohol abusers recieving SSI benefits for life).

I agree with ZIP.  Although, I believe that this social security ponzi scheme ought never have been created, short of refunding every dollar of our (and our employer's) forced "contributions", this government can not be allowed to steal this money from those who have put it in the bank.  It is much the same (in my mind) to one investing in US Backed garaunteed  securities, like savings bonds, and then when the bond matures having the government begin a 'discussion' about how much fairer it would be for everyone, if they just defaulted on the payment and devalued the asset to zero!

While, I am not personally in a position that I wouldn't survive without social security, I know many many people who would not!  AND these are not all poor people, they are working, Middle class Americans who have had both mom and pop work to pay off the mortgage and raise their kids.  They do not have a pension, nor do they have savings.  They have banked on their social security to pay for necessities as they scale down and retire to a life of subsistance!  Social security pays enough to just pay the bills...but only if you already lived the American Dream and own your home!

These politicians want to rob the social security trust fund (essentially renig on their IOU's from their many years of theft from the fund) and redistribute the funds to those receiveing all their new 'safety net" of welfare progams.  Doesn't anyone else see this?

Quote from: Shooterman on December 04, 2010, 06:24:15 AM
SAY FREAKING WHAT!

she did Shooter.  Don't be naive.

Quote from: taxed on December 04, 2010, 06:59:31 AM
she did Shooter.  Don't be naive.

Nevada is a Conservative State, all excepting Las Vegas, which is mostly illegals and mob run.
It doesn't take a 5th grader to extrapolate the equation.

Quote from: taxed on December 04, 2010, 06:59:31 AM
she did Shooter.  Don't be naive.

I wonder if it's too late to go to DC for the swearing in.

Quote from: Solar on December 04, 2010, 07:03:57 AM
Nevada is a Conservative State, all excepting Las Vegas, which is mostly illegals and mob run.
It doesn't take a 5th grader to extrapolate the equation.

Damme, a page straight from Ali Baba Gore's book. How to beat Bush in 12 easy lessons.

Whatever the reason, Reid will STILL be the Senate Majority Leader.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 04, 2010, 07:19:43 AM
Damme, a page straight from Ali Baba Gore's book. How to beat Bush in 12 easy lessons.

Whatever the reason, Reid will STILL be the Senate Majority Leader.

Minority leader.