Looking for conservative clarification

Started by EHMakeup, January 20, 2013, 04:37:01 PM

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walkstall

Quote from: taxed on January 20, 2013, 10:54:13 PM
Just wow.  Wow.



And this........
QuoteThis is merely cover for his tyrannical speech in which he told new members that if they are there to represent their constituents the door is in the back of the room.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 20, 2013, 09:39:12 PM
No one is asking you to buy anything. I wanted to hear a counter opinion, and you gave that to me. I also didn't say clear heads, I said cool heads. As in, two rational people, can express two counter opinions on a subject, and neither is reduced to be called 'the enemy'. I don't want to be oppressed, I don't want my guns taken away from me, and I don't want my personal freedom infringed upon. All I want is for responsible gun ownership and gun business ownership, to be mandatory, and not on the honor system, because as you said, people are corrupt.
I have to ask, but why are you willing to throw out the 2nd Amendment?
You do realize, by giving the Fed power over the State on the issue, you are changing the very meaning of the 2nd.
It was, by design a means to keep the Fed from dictating laws regarding our Rights, in fact the entire Bill of Rights is by design a barrier to the Federal Govt, yet here you are whacking away at the very structure of our freedoms. Why is that?
Could it be you are nothing more than a pawn in the game the Left is playing to bring down the Country, is that possible?
They got you all emotionally worked up, and you lost all rational thought, reason went out the window, and you completely forgot what the Bill of Rights means to the American public.
The 2nd is also by design, a means of keeping a tyrannical Govt in check, yet here you are, fighting the very Rights our Founders tried to protect us with.
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TowardLiberty

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 20, 2013, 05:05:19 PM
Well, my response to this is pretty simple, Columbine. Those boys bought their guns at a gun show, with fake ID's. Also, I can promise you, gun show vendor do not have do a formal background check on anyone who buys a weapon from them, while at the gun show. That's why it's referred to as the 'gun show loophole'.

In regards to the Federal Government's responsibility in enforcing current law, you are absolutely right!! The trouble, is that's the job of the ATF, to track weapon's sales, and ensure current laws are enforced. Yet, it's been impossible to confirm anyone to that post, and huge restrictions have been put on what power they do have. What's the point in having laws that can't be enforced properly?

I have bought numerous guns from vendors at gun shows and each time I have had an FBI background check ran.

And this is true across the board, for all vendors.

But individuals can buy and sell guns between each other, informally, with no background checks.

These individual exchanges happen all the time and sometimes they occur at guns shows.

Capt.Obvious

Quote from: TowardLiberty on January 21, 2013, 07:07:29 AM
I have bought numerous guns from vendors at gun shows and each time I have had an FBI background check ran.

And this is true across the board, for all vendors.

But individuals can buy and sell guns between each other, informally, with no background checks.

These individual exchanges happen all the time and sometimes they occur at guns shows.
]

You'd think a sensible regulation might be to require back ground checks for all gun sales, even private.  Perhaps require private sellers to run a background check through a licensed dealer and business.

Solar

Quote from: Capt.Obvious on January 21, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
]

You'd think a sensible regulation might be to require back ground checks for all gun sales, even private.  Perhaps require private sellers to run a background check through a licensed dealer and business.
Well, it's wonderful feel good approach, but lets get real for a moment, do you really think a felon is going to legally buy a gun?
The only purpose of the background check, is to have a data base on every weapon in the country.
It's far easier to confiscate guns if you know exactly who has them.
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Capt.Obvious

Quote from: Solar on January 21, 2013, 06:59:37 AM
I have to ask, but why are you willing to throw out the 2nd Amendment?
You do realize, by giving the Fed power over the State on the issue, you are changing the very meaning of the 2nd.
It was, by design a means to keep the Fed from dictating laws regarding our Rights, in fact the entire Bill of Rights is by design a barrier to the Federal Govt, yet here you are whacking away at the very structure of our freedoms. Why is that?
Could it be you are nothing more than a pawn in the game the Left is playing to bring down the Country, is that possible?
They got you all emotionally worked up, and you lost all rational thought, reason went out the window, and you completely forgot what the Bill of Rights means to the American public.
The 2nd is also by design, a means of keeping a tyrannical Govt in check, yet here you are, fighting the very Rights our Founders tried to protect us with.

The 2nd is outdated.  Our founders were painfully aware that they were fallible humans and so is the constitution. They don't call them amendments because the thing was written in stone ya know.

"Mr. President, I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them...For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better Information, or fuller Consideration, to change Opinions even on important Subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise."
-Ben Franklin

"As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed."  -James Madison


raptor5618

Solar these advocates of taking rights cannot even be honest with themselves.  They want to take all the guns away from us all so that the govt is the only one with guns.  Well the criminals too but they are kind of one and the same.  Bet you could not get one Lib to agree with total registration no matter who the seller with the stipulation that once the sale is approved that the transaction and any and all records of that transaction are destroyed. 

Keeping it out of the hands of those who cannot own a gun is NOT the issue.
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Shooterman

Quote from: Capt.Obvious on January 21, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
]

You'd think a sensible regulation might be to require back ground checks for all gun sales, even private.  Perhaps require private sellers to run a background check through a licensed dealer and business.

Oh, fokking yawn! More verses of the same old shitty song.

Jiminy Crickets, where do you clowns come from? The Dark Side of Nowhere?
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.
[IMG]

Capt.Obvious

Quote from: Solar on January 21, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Well, it's wonderful feel good approach, but lets get real for a moment, do you really think a felon is going to legally buy a gun?
The only purpose of the background check, is to have a data base on every weapon in the country.
It's far easier to confiscate guns if you know exactly who has them.

Do you honestly believe the only thing protecting a civilian from tyrannical government is the 2nd amendment?

If the Feds want you badly enough, they just bring bigger guns ala the branch Davidian incident in Waco.  There are other more effective ways to protest and paralyze the government.

Shooterman

Squeeze the heads of these fokkers and out pops like a bit nasty zit.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.
[IMG]

Capt.Obvious

Quote from: Shooterman on January 21, 2013, 11:04:49 AM
Oh, fokking yawn! More verses of the same old shitty song.

Jiminy Crickets, where do you clowns come from? The Dark Side of Nowhere?

I knew I could count on a political forum called Conservative Political Forum to be chalk full of enlightened and civil debaters!

I'm kind of new to the forum game, am I supposed to call you a clown now too?  Is this like harmless adolescent ribbing or do you really think I'm a clown?  I'm just trying to understand your conservative culture better.

Solar

Quote from: Capt.Obvious on January 21, 2013, 10:55:45 AM
The 2nd is outdated.  Our founders were painfully aware that they were fallible humans and so is the constitution. They don't call them amendments because the thing was written in stone ya know.

Using your logic, the First is outdated as well, correct?
As to Amendments, the original Bill of Rights came before Govt, it was a barrier against Govt, and the 2nd is our guarantee of fighting an overbearing tyrannical Govt.

Quote"Mr. President, I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them...For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better Information, or fuller Consideration, to change Opinions even on important Subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise."
-Ben Franklin

"As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed."  -James Madison
Franklin was an early socialist. Read more of his writings, he didn't want man to be free of Govt, he wanted bigger Govt.
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Solar

Quote from: Capt.Obvious on January 21, 2013, 11:17:33 AM
I knew I could count on a political forum called Conservative Political Forum to be chalk full of enlightened and civil debaters!

I'm kind of new to the forum game, am I supposed to call you a clown now too?  Is this like harmless adolescent ribbing or do you really think I'm a clown?  I'm just trying to understand your conservative culture better.
There is a reason you didn't get a quality response, your post is laden with ignorance of our Founders ideas and Documents.
Read the Federalist Papers, then come back and try and engage in debate.
I don't like insulting new members, but rather feel an obligation to educate, in your case? You have much too much to learn to even engage on our level.
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#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Capt.Obvious

Quote from: Solar on January 21, 2013, 11:21:15 AM
Using your logic, the First is outdated as well, correct?
As to Amendments, the original Bill of Rights came before Govt, it was a barrier against Govt, and the 2nd is our guarantee of fighting an overbearing tyrannical Govt.
Franklin was an early socialist. Read more of his writings, he didn't want man to be free of Govt, he wanted bigger Govt.

We have restrictions on the 1st already and I believe they are sufficient.

The 2nd however sticks out like a sore thumb invoking a time when a bunch of muskets and a 6lb. cannon actually COULD repel an invading nation or force.  We live in the time of unmanned drones, lasers and perhaps the best trained military in history. A well regulated militia is no guarantee of independence anymore. 

There is a better way to prevent tyranny. Voting and non-violent peaceful protest has actually proven to be effective in modern times.

Shooterman

Quote from: Solar on January 21, 2013, 11:21:15 AM
Using your logic, the First is outdated as well, correct?
As to Amendments, the original Bill of Rights came before Govt, it was a barrier against Govt, and the 2nd is our guarantee of fighting an overbearing tyrannical Govt.
Franklin was an early socialist. Read more of his writings, he didn't want man to be free of Govt, he wanted bigger Govt.

AS a philosopher, Franklin did okay. He was a piss poor legislator, never serving as such, and having most of his suggestions, as did Hamilton, kicked to the curb during the Constitutional Convention.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.
[IMG]